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Post by prinsmp on Feb 11, 2010 11:54:45 GMT -5
Hi I was wondering whether somebody knows the effective hip fire ranges and the improvement by using steady aim:
For example:
Effective hip fire range SMG: w/o SA 10m and w/ SA 15m AR: w/o SA 5m and w/ SA 10m Did somebody already tested this, or globally knows the answer?
Thanks
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Den
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Post by Den on Feb 11, 2010 11:57:47 GMT -5
Steady aim multiplies the radius of the crosshair by 0.65
That's all. There's no such thing as an effective hip fire range.
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Post by prinsmp on Feb 11, 2010 12:04:54 GMT -5
thanx, but the crosshair radius has big influence on the ability to shoot somebody from the hip “effectively” I assume.
So a SMG with SA has a very tiny crosshair radius. Does this mean you can shoot somebody from the hip across the map, assuming all bullets will land within the crosshair radius?
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Post by caboose on Feb 11, 2010 12:39:54 GMT -5
You could, but that wouldn't be very effective.
I think this is the kind of thing that you have to figure out for yourself. Put simply, yes, Steady Aim increases the effective range of hip firing.
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Den
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Post by Den on Feb 11, 2010 13:49:22 GMT -5
The crosshair as you see it is the exact measurement of hip spread. Draw a circle that touches all four points of the crosshair - that's the area in which shots will land.
Just aim down the sights.
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Post by caboose on Feb 11, 2010 14:35:14 GMT -5
No, hip fire has its uses, with Steady Aim too. There's no need to tell people not to use it.
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battleaxerx
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Post by battleaxerx on Feb 11, 2010 16:24:56 GMT -5
Instead of using a perk, I think playing a little slower to incorperate shotgun into your play is a better idea... but I don't really know of course.
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Post by chyros on Feb 12, 2010 3:28:45 GMT -5
Strictly speaking there is no effective hip range because the impact is random. The crosshair as you see it is the exact measurement of hip spread. Draw a circle that touches all four points of the crosshair - that's the area in which shots will land. Just aim down the sights. By the way, is the width of the crosshairs angle-based or tangent-based from the player's perspective?
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Post by prinsmp on Feb 12, 2010 3:44:56 GMT -5
Correct me if I am wrong, so as long as the target is bigger than your crosshairs radius, it would be effective to fire from the hip. Taking into account you have better mobility while not aiming down the sights.
If so, this would translate into a certain distance in which the target will be to far away / to small.
@ battleax, the reason why I wanted to know this is because I just started to play with the MP5K. It already fires great from the hip, so I am running ninja. However if SA improves the hip fire range as discussed with lest say 10m, it would be better to use SA. If the range only improves by 5m, it is not a good option.
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Post by toad on Feb 12, 2010 3:59:34 GMT -5
I have 2 classes which I use SP and SA on, as I have akimbo Rafficas as my secondary on both. For those who haven't tried this setup, you're losing out!
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Post by spifnar on Feb 12, 2010 11:15:12 GMT -5
To the OP:
According to the math, SA allows you equally effective fire (area you're shooting into) at a range of 1.7 the distance without SA. That ratio applies to all weapons equally.
If someone wants to check my math, that wouldn't hurt. Geometry was a long time ago.
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Post by bepo on Feb 12, 2010 13:00:51 GMT -5
To the OP: According to the math, SA allows you equally effective fire (area you're shooting into) at a range of 1.7 the distance without SA. That ratio applies to all weapons equally. If someone wants to check my math, that wouldn't hurt. Geometry was a long time ago. I did the math to check and it's actually 1.54 times the distance. Here's a quick picture of it:
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Post by chyros on Feb 12, 2010 13:12:50 GMT -5
For a target of width x at distance r and an angle a,
tan a = x/r for a = y ∙ 1 (Ξ p) or y ∙ 0,65 (Ξ q) (p,q≠(k½)π) so
relative distance increase = r2/r1 = (x2/tan q)(x1/tan p)-1 = 1,54 is what I found.
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Post by caboose on Feb 12, 2010 15:31:54 GMT -5
Ah, thx math guys
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Post by prinsmp on Feb 13, 2010 7:31:12 GMT -5
Indeed thx guys for your calculations. So you gain 50% extra effective hip fire range by using SA.
Referring to my original post regarding effective hipe fire range, I could genarally say it is ok to fire from te hip at a range of about 5 to 8 meters (based on gameplay with SMG, but no fact). So by using SA, I could have the same results at a range of 8 to 12 meters. I would say not a real help, because at 10 meters I will ADS. Hipfire is more a panick reaction, if someone jumps in my face out of the blue. So I will just stick with Ninja and Commando for my SMG class.
Thanks guys
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Post by bepo on Feb 13, 2010 9:27:23 GMT -5
Indeed thx guys for your calculations. So you gain 50% extra effective hip fire range by using SA. Referring to my original post regarding effective hipe fire range, I could genarally say it is ok to fire from te hip at a range of about 5 to 8 meters (based on gameplay with SMG, but no fact). So by using SA, I could have the same results at a range of 8 to 12 meters. I would say not a real help, because at 10 meters I will ADS. Hipfire is more a panick reaction, if someone jumps in my face out of the blue. So I will just stick with Ninja and Commando for my SMG class. Thanks guys I find steady aim only useful on classes that use the pro perk too, most of the time it's snipers with akimbo glocks. for an AR or smg ninja and commando are much better
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Post by caboose on Feb 13, 2010 10:51:08 GMT -5
It's all about preference. I perform much better with Steady Aim on an SMG.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Feb 13, 2010 11:59:19 GMT -5
It can be useful for shotguns if you want a tighter spread for insuring enough pellets hit to kill, though that also means needing to aim better than you would have to at closer range so it's a tradeoff. Of course, you can ADS a shotgun to get the full spread since SA only applies to hipfire, but at close range it's generally not a good idea.
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Post by caboose on Feb 13, 2010 12:53:20 GMT -5
My Spas-12 loves Steady Aim (and Stopping Power)
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Post by jathomas on Feb 13, 2010 16:28:02 GMT -5
Every sniper build I ever play has akimbo raffis or akimbo magnums as 2ndary and steady aim as the 3rd perk. It is incredibly good off the hip, and the pro lets you stay sighted on a lane for a long time before you have to drop down and unsight.
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moses
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Post by moses on Feb 13, 2010 20:45:22 GMT -5
Steady Aim is great on the MP5K, PP2000, TAR, AK-47, shotguns, arguably the FAM16, and anything Akimbo. Everything else either fires too slowly to trust my bullets to constantly land (SCAR, UMP45) or doesn't kill within two bullets (all other 30-XX guns) to not just ADS.
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Post by caboose on Feb 14, 2010 14:25:47 GMT -5
Well I strongly disagree on that statement, specifically for the Vector. I have no trouble at all using Steady Aim effectively with that.
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moses
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Post by moses on Feb 14, 2010 18:56:55 GMT -5
I wouldn't trust it to kill effectively every time unless the enemy is pretty close. Especially if I'm not running Stopping Power. That's just me, though, and my unlucky experiences with the 30-XX guns, hip fired.
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Post by caboose on Feb 15, 2010 9:52:25 GMT -5
Well, stopping power is a must on most SMG's unless you're doing the Marathon + Lightweight Pro thing.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Feb 15, 2010 11:52:11 GMT -5
Naw it's not a must, it's a tradeoff. LW is quite useful. You can also go CB+Ninja to ghost people, very handy in buildings so you can pop around corners and catch them off guard. Just depends on what you're strategy is.
So far though I've not really found hipfiring even with SA to be particularly useful except at very close range on any of the SMG's I've tried. Usually I'll just go ahead and ADS at the same time. But maybe a big part of that is psychological. Still, though. Considering SMG's have only a small speed penalty for ADSing I just prefer to use my sights most of the time. I do really like SA on shotguns, though to give me better odds of enough pellets landing to 1HK out to greater range. I might miss less without it, but that's something I can improve upon.
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Post by caboose on Feb 15, 2010 12:45:01 GMT -5
I said most SMG's. I think UMP45 is the best SMG to use with CB.
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mdnl
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Post by mdnl on Feb 15, 2010 12:45:05 GMT -5
I have plenty of success using an AR and hip firing without SA when I'm surprised round a corner (and that's 4 bullets from an ACR) so I really can't see the need for using it on an SMG where the spread is tighter to begin with, the only use I can see if for extending the range of your shotgun, not worth it when you could have Ninja, Sitrep or Commando.
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Post by caboose on Feb 15, 2010 12:55:33 GMT -5
Define plenty of success. How many of your bullets hit at more than 2 meters range?
See, the point is to have more reliable hip fire. And when you use hip fire as much as I do, it is a very good perk.
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mdnl
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Post by mdnl on Feb 15, 2010 14:42:26 GMT -5
Define plenty of success. How many of your bullets hit at more than 2 meters range? See, the point is to have more reliable hip fire. And when you use hip fire as much as I do, it is a very good perk. Well I see hip firing as something you do at close quarters, not something you do at mid range, so if I round a corner and the guy had on Ninja so I couldn't hear him coming so I will need to hip fire and with an ACR that's 4 bullets, I can manage to win at least half of those battles, that's plenty of success. When I use an SMG I find the hip spread so easy to use at close quarters that I just can't see how steady aim is necessary, it may give you a few extra meters but at that range I'm thinking about ADS anyway to ensure my bullets hit, why would I waste a perk? For the shotguns it works well though as your spread is constant so you always know where to shoot.
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Post by caboose on Feb 15, 2010 16:35:27 GMT -5
Whatever floats your boat.
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