falufa - "Except for maybe Grip on the MG36 (haven't tested it), no attachments other than Rapid Fire have any effect on the rate of fire of any weapon. Most of the 900RPM rates were rounded up from 885RPM, but the difference is negligible. Also, for the PKP and the M60E4 I got a base rate of 585RPM and a RF rate of 600RPM, but, again, the difference is negligible (MG36 w/ Grip might be 585RPM)"
Re: MW3 Recoil Plots « Reply #212 on Jan 7, 2012, 11:15pm »
No, I mean in practice -- in game, it has no recoil @ 600RPM O.O
Is it possible to record something like that via theater? I'd be happy to post a vid. It's incredible how much it is reduced from 720 to 600rpm
Alright, looked up where theater was hidden in MW3 and am rendering a clip now
1: G36C no attachments, proficiencies, etc. Full RPM 1a. .5x speed 1 mag 1b. 1x speed 1 mag
2: G36C no attachments, proficiencies, etc. 600 RPM 2a. .5x speed 1 mag 2b. 1x speed 1 mag
3: G36C [Focus] 600rpm, about 2/3rds through jumps to full RPM so you know there is no editing or faking.
Hmm it's rendered and uploaded but not showing up on youtube or elite... delay I hope? --- https://theater.callofduty.com/career/ps3/afd1a229920bad5d856f9757415758af1e02d3287f313445#/playercardmw3/vault
am i doing something wrong? i dont see it in there still.... i think you need to log into elite to follow that link btw
Re: MW3 Recoil Plots « Reply #213 on Jan 8, 2012, 10:50am »
Maybe I'm going crazy, but it feels like the M60 actually has less recoil with RF than the stock version does. Would you mind plotting it with Fred's RoF of 715.2 instead of 750?
Maybe I'm going crazy, but it feels like the M60 actually has less recoil with RF than the stock version does. Would you mind plotting it with Fred's RoF of 715.2 instead of 750?
will do in a coule of days, duckcall. In fact I ll be away from home for a couple of nights so will be doing quite w bit of work on this thread.
Joined: Nov 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 1,645 Location: Europe
Re: MW3 Recoil Plots « Reply #219 on Jan 10, 2012, 1:12pm »
OK, thanks.
edit:
1. I did some tests with LMG: Grip+RDS and at 600 rpm (standing position, one shot every 0.1 sec)
L86 LSW and MK46 both -almost- lasers, only visual recoil. MG36, PKP and M60 - not lasers at 600 or even at 500 rpm, high recoil. I did not test Kick+Grip.
At 600 rpm SCAR-L (silencer+RDS) is a laser = G36C. AK-47, CM901 - significant recoil at 600 and 500 rpm. At 600 and 500 rpm PM-9 (UZI) still bad recoil, same with MP5. UMP45 - recoil persists at 600 and 500rpm.
2. At 666 rpm (one shot every 0.09 sec)
G36C = SCAR-L, still zero recoil, (silencer+RDS), Kick unnecessary. L86 LSW and MK46 no lasers anymore, although very very accurate (Grip+RDS).
3. At 705 rpm (one shot every 0.085 sec):
G36C - recoil straight up, all bullets in horizontal line, target missed, bullets above his head.... SCAR-L - shines, really, full clip on target (= his head) without missing, it is not a laser anymore but "almost" no recoil. Now I understand why SCAR is only 35 damage and low ROF (= 750) .... otherwise it would outclass G36C.
All tests on Hardhat - mid range. No idea how to upload picures here, but I could upload recoil patterns at different ROF if someone interested...
----
tl;dr: At 705rpm SCAR-L is almost a laser. At 666 rpm: G36C and SCAR-L and at 600 rpm: L86 LSW and MK46 have practically no recoil, Kick unnecessary. ( = most accurate full auto weapons if burst fired) Probably: for all other full auto weapons there is no ROF above 500 rpm that cancels recoil.
Maybe I'm going crazy, but it feels like the M60 actually has less recoil with RF than the stock version does. Would you mind plotting it with Fred's RoF of 715.2 instead of 750?
Difficult to say from these plots; sample size of 100 bursts too small I suspect.
Re: MW3 Recoil Plots « Reply #223 on Jan 15, 2012, 10:49pm »
How did you get those weapons to fire at those RPMs?
Thermal plots would be difficult without knowing exactly how they affect recoil and center speed. My suspicion is it it increases centerspeed like grip.
Re: MW3 Recoil Plots « Reply #224 on Jan 15, 2012, 11:31pm »
Na, there are two sets of recoil running at the same time.
Viewkick, all weapons have it. The sights stay in the center of your screen. Easy to counter, relative to gunkick.. which has the sights jump away from the center.
Thermal removes gunkick entirely. Viewkick is likely not adjusted at all.
So, the current plots on the front page are "thermal", as gunkick values are unknown
1. I did some tests with LMG: Grip+RDS and at 600 rpm (standing position, one shot every 0.1 sec)
L86 LSW and MK46 both -almost- lasers, only visual recoil. MG36, PKP and M60 - not lasers at 600 or even at 500 rpm, high recoil. I did not test Kick+Grip.
At 600 rpm SCAR-L (silencer+RDS) is a laser = G36C. AK-47, CM901 - significant recoil at 600 and 500 rpm. At 600 and 500 rpm PM-9 (UZI) still bad recoil, same with MP5. UMP45 - recoil persists at 600 and 500rpm.
2. At 666 rpm (one shot every 0.09 sec)
G36C = SCAR-L, still zero recoil, (silencer+RDS), Kick unnecessary. L86 LSW and MK46 no lasers anymore, although very very accurate (Grip+RDS).
3. At 705 rpm (one shot every 0.085 sec):
G36C - recoil straight up, all bullets in horizontal line, target missed, bullets above his head.... SCAR-L - shines, really, full clip on target (= his head) without missing, it is not a laser anymore but "almost" no recoil. Now I understand why SCAR is only 35 damage and low ROF (= 750) .... otherwise it would outclass G36C.
All tests on Hardhat - mid range. No idea how to upload picures here, but I could upload recoil patterns at different ROF if someone interested...
----
tl;dr: At 705rpm SCAR-L is almost a laser. At 666 rpm: G36C and SCAR-L and at 600 rpm: L86 LSW and MK46 have practically no recoil, Kick unnecessary. ( = most accurate full auto weapons if burst fired) Probably: for all other full auto weapons there is no ROF above 500 rpm that cancels recoil.
You should also do those LMG recoil tests when using the LMGs crouched and when using the LMGs prone. Going prone with an LMG already takes away nearly all of the recoil (even the PKP becomes a laser when prone) and I'm almost certain that crouching reduces the recoil around as much as kick or grip.
Maybe I'm going crazy, but it feels like the M60 actually has less recoil with RF than the stock version does. Would you mind plotting it with Fred's RoF of 715.2 instead of 750?
The recoil is pretty much the same, which means you'll be able to fire rounds before the recoil becomes too unmanageable. I found a similar situation when using the worst LMG in the game (MG36).
Re: MW3 Recoil Plots « Reply #228 on Jan 17, 2012, 5:14pm »
Yeah I've seen that thread. It's just nice to see the comparison using this method (which I consider much more accurate in terms of actual use in-game. 100 10round bursts>30-50 bullets when it comes to relevant recoil).
Freds tests pose me with a dilemma, but do they apply to all consoles? Wii is different. Also, the ROF increase will not make much of a difference to the plots.
Yeah I've seen that thread. It's just nice to see the comparison using this method (which I consider much more accurate in terms of actual use in-game. 100 10round bursts>30-50 bullets when it comes to relevant recoil).
I also second at least LMG crouch recoil as well.
I would really ike to include crouch, grip etc but need hard data on how these affect recoil before I can produce plots.
This is on one of the HD versions. The G36C still has recoil in the Wii version. Even when using the Kick Proficiency, both the shots and the gun climb upwards noticeably under sustained fire, just like the how it appears in the video when Kick wasn't used. I don't know if recoil values or calculations are the same on the Wii version as in the HD versions, but, even with the same rates of fire, the guns behave differently.
Also, something I forgot to mention in my previous posts: Usually, the sound of automatics firing fits with the rates of fire I calculated; however, every once in a while I can hear an increase in fire rate akin to the difference in sound between the gun firing at its normal rate versus firing with Rapid Fire (it even happens on guns already using RF, like they got 2xRF). I don't know if the gun actually starts shooting faster, but it certainly sounds like it. Last time it happened to me, I was shooting at someone sprinting across my screen in a Public Match, but it never happened in any of my tests on a solo Private Match. Somebody on GameFAQs suggested that this could be related to lag compensation, but I'm not sure how to test that properly.
This is on one of the HD versions. The G36C still has recoil in the Wii version. Even when using the Kick Proficiency, both the shots and the gun climb upwards noticeably under sustained fire, just like the how it appears in the video when Kick wasn't used. I don't know if recoil values or calculations are the same on the Wii version as in the HD versions, but, even with the same rates of fire, the guns behave differently.
Also, something I forgot to mention in my previous posts: Usually, the sound of automatics firing fits with the rates of fire I calculated; however, every once in a while I can hear an increase in fire rate akin to the difference in sound between the gun firing at its normal rate versus firing with Rapid Fire (it even happens on guns already using RF, like they got 2xRF). I don't know if the gun actually starts shooting faster, but it certainly sounds like it. Last time it happened to me, I was shooting at someone sprinting across my screen in a Public Match, but it never happened in any of my tests on a solo Private Match. Somebody on GameFAQs suggested that this could be related to lag compensation, but I'm not sure how to test that properly.
Im confused
The two sets of recoils shown on that video are a comparison of default RPM and 600rpm [~80%]
The two sets of recoils shown on that video are a comparison of default RPM and 600rpm [~80%]
It isnt no kick vs kick
I see, my bad then. I didn't notice the difference in fire rates when I first watched it, so I thought it was just no Kick vs. Kick at 600RPM.
What I was trying to say is that the G36C in the Wii version, even with a lower rate of fire and using Kick, has very noticeable recoil, closer to what could be seen in the video when you fired the HD version of the gun at 769RPM.
When you were firing at 600RPM with iron sights, the gun seemed laser accurate while emptying the entire magazine. The Wii version behaves like that for the first 5 or 6 shots, but then starts climbing upwards. It actually follows Psijaka's plots, despite the difference in fire rates
Joined: Feb 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 10,879 Location: Orkney
Re: MW3 Recoil Plots « Reply #235 on Jan 19, 2012, 4:42pm »
Difficult to compare the recoil pattern you get from loosing off a few clips with a simulation of 100 bursts. There is quite a big random element to the recoil of some of the guns; in the case of the G36, esp with kick, there is a good chance tbat the gun will recover from the recoil before the next shot is fired, but occasionally you will get a big upwards kich of say 60 that the gun cannot recover from. When this occurs is entirely random, I believe, so sometimes the gun will stay on target for several rounds, other times it may kick sharply upwards on the 2nd or 3rd shot. That's random numbers for you!
Joined: Jan 2012 Gender: Male Posts: 337 Location: Sweden, Europe
Re: MW3 Recoil Plots « Reply #237 on Jan 29, 2012, 2:51pm »
Is there any chance we could get these numbers for the handgun class? I think akimbo machine pistols ruin this game and for that reason I like to use handguns when I don't use a launcher. It would be interesting to get a comparison between the high recoil guns like the Magnum and the low recoil guns like five-seven. Hipfire and ADS, akimbo and without and so on. If there is any information avavible on this please link me to it!
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