And it is sad how people just eat this BS up. I also like how many think that increasing TTK yields faster kills.
doo-doo like this is why we need a Den bro to become a youtube hero. I know driftor is there btw.
The ACR is living proof of this.
Meh, Drift0r is definitely the most stats-based commentator, but he definitely does give false info too. For example, he posted the same bull doo-doo Masterkey Buff video that Raw Instinct did. Frankly, I don't even know who invented that crap story, but those "buffs" all worked before at the launch of the game.
I think its funny that anyone thinks that any shotgun has been buffed since launch day.
USAS-12? I'd call making the emags glitch permanent a buff.
That only made it easier to level. 90% of people use emags on all shotguns anyway so the usas at lauch at level 28 is the same as the usas now at level 28. Making something easier to level is not a buff if it has no long term impact on effectiveness. Would unlocking the variable scope at level 4 have been a good buff for the dragunov? No. Same thing.
Re: Shotgun Minimum Damage Testing - Spas Buffed t « Reply #877 on Jul 4, 2012, 2:45pm »
Their fault if they wasted their time leveling up a horrible weapon. A lot of people didn't use it before and were happy, although the KSG still sucks.
Re: Shotgun Minimum Damage Testing - Spas Buffed t « Reply #882 on Jul 4, 2012, 4:26pm »
Mark had a nice long talk with me a couple of days ago. He said he hasn't played with shotguns much so he didn't have a ton to add in that part of theconversation. I will try to get him to play some shotguns with me soon.
I went back to trying the SPAS Damage with Steady Aim after using the KSG Damage with Sitrep. My god, the range is incredible!
Now try the USAS.
It has the range, but more close range power + spammability. W00T
i just got the USAS gold. and i am NOT a shotgun guy. i just wanted to have a gold shotty for my overkill class in search... anyway, its pretty gosh darn golly gee whiz good, but its still not as good as a RF pp90m1. the only reason i say that, is because i won MANY a FFA with the RF pp90m1 and didnt win as many with the USAS, even once i got damage.
RF PP90M1 does indeed take all sorts of dumps on the shotguns in MW3.
No way should an SMG out-TTK the AA-12 with hipfire for the entirety of the AA-12's range...
Yeah I thought that was funny while I was testing the aa12.
that is absolutely awesome.
could you post one with a damage USAS (what most feel is the top shotty) and set it near its 2 burst range and find out how the rf + range pp90m1 stacks up there. id just like to see a youtube clip of it for all to enjoy.
No but I got him to favorite and share my shotgun thread on the other forum with candy and teanah. That thing is fricking littered with them. Next time I am on at the same time as him I'll get into another chat with him and see what I can get going.
Re: Shotgun Minimum Damage Testing - Spas Buffed t « Reply #890 on Jul 11, 2012, 10:22pm »
Appologising to everyone here but for some reason I can't post this on the cod forum so I am posting it here and adding a link to this post in the cod forum.
"Yes, if you use them constantly on every map they are nowhere near as good as (RF) smgs & they shouldn't be. Smgs / autos are easier to use constantly to begin with."
If you can master a weapon with as many limitations as the spas, ksg, and 1887 the rewards for doing so should be great. But with their current damage even someone who has amazing skills with the pump shotguns will just simply do better if they take an smg. Regardless of how skilled the user is an smg will always be better. That should not be the case. It sounds like you want no reward for taking the risk of using the slowest firing weapon that is also the only weapon in the entire game to have a finite range. It seems like you think that shotguns are an after thought in mw3 or that they should be beneath the other weapons in cod. That is not how it should be.
"However on the right maps in the right hands with the right navigation and connection they now perform at least Ok to good in their zone, with decent ohk ability outside for pumps / model, especially with the specialist bonus."
That seems like a lot of "ifs" just to get a weapon on par with the other weapons. Again that should not be the case. Specialist bonus on smgs is far more dangerous than specialist bonus on the pump shotguns. The amount of destruction that an emags+RF smg can do is astronomically higher than the pumps with specialist. My smg class with emags and rapid fire is called "Dr.Manhattan Mode" for a reason. All powerful. Shotguns are just plain weak by comparison. This is reflected in all the stats that I have been gathering from the elite profiles on this thread. There was only one person out of hundreds that had his shotguns near his smgs. And that may have changed since I checked last.
"Yes, they get retarded hitmarkers in their zone. However if they buff the ads accuracy to stakeout standard, that's ALL do to Lag / sync issues, range (outside their comfort zone / max damage ranges you should be getting hitmarkers) or bad aim as you now need to hit them center mass to have a good chance at ohks, that would be way less with 2-pellet kills and make the guns "nooby." I don't know if it's me who is breaking this to you, but many find the spas and model pre-patch noob cannons in mw2, including the incredibly lame aa-12 back then. Regardless of being secondaries, also many auto ARs and smgs could kill in a bullet less back then too with SP and the maps were generally more open."
A buff to 3 default spread (stakeout's ads spread) is too tight for the 1887. It would kill too easily at range with that spread. Also increasing the tightness of the spread will not eliminate the hitmarker problem. I have plenty of films of point blank ksg specialist hitmarkers hipfiring with perfect accuracy. Spread tightness is not a core issue that effects hitmarkers. Its not "way less" watch any of the films of people using the emags+damage spas. You still get hitmarkers with bad aim. But what doesn't happen is bad hitmarkers. I have never seen a single post that suggests that the close range damage of the emags spas was too strong. Not a single one. People complain about everything on this forum and yet I have not seen that post (I am sure there is but I have not seen it). Anyone who actually tried to go shotgun only in mw2 has a very different opinion of the spas. Compared to 2-3 bullet kill laser ARs, 2 bullet kill laser lmgs, and explosives the spas was a pea shooter. I went shotgun only a lot in that game. If any noob tried to bring out their spas against mine they would not go positive that game. It was a very skilled playstyle that not many could do. There was a reason only a couple of youtubers did extensive shotgunning. Its hard as hell. what you are saying is that you want pump shotguns to be the only weapon class in mw3 that does not function properly in even mild lag? ARs and smgs have their fire rates to make them consistent, lmgs have fire rate ammo, and range, snipers have range and some snipers have fire rate. Pump shotguns have none of the above. The only thing to do in lag was get close and hit them hard. Mw3 pumps just don't hit hard enough.
"Range would be awesome in core if their standard pellet amount to kill was 3, range already gets a lot of sick ohks with their current standards, 25 % more max damage range and 25 % more range overall would see shotties used on all maps. People would get long range shots constantly and decent to good constancy in their zone (like with damage now). Range shouldn't be relatively constant in core, that would make them incredibly annoying, they have fine max damage ranges without range. They should remain cqb oriented mainly, the extra range constancy would be fine for people on the specialist bonus."
Range would be useful in core for once not awesome. As it stands right now range is useless in core on the pumps. Damage gives you longer one shot kills on all of them+more close range consistency. If you are using range on your pumps in core when damage is available to you, you are doing it wrong.
(In response to the bolded above) I want you to read this part very carefully because this will be the 9001 time I have said this on this thread. My proposals do not extend the reliable one shot kill range on the spas and 1887 at all. Not a single inch. The ksg sees a small .65 meter increase but that is with range so you don't get the 2/9 pellet kill and the increased range. We have shown how unreliable 3/8 and 3/9 can be. Damage will still yield longer one shot kills than range. Range is not a core proficiency. With range the pumps will get all the hitmarkers we currently get point blank, slightly less one shot kill range than damage, and increased hitmarker range. If you are thinking that the 25% extra total range is awesome when it gets noting but hitmarkers in that extra range and then your next shot is a full second away then you should be looking for a helmet and someone to watch over you. The extra range that range alone gets over damage is absolutely worthless in core. If you take range alone you don't get damage via specialist, so specialist is out. If you take range alone you will have to take steady aim to get any usefulness out of it so every one with dead silence or sitrep will destroy you. If you use range in core when damage is available you are stupid.
"You can't ask for a power and accuracy buff and thus effectively buffing the range attachment. Next to the other tweaks you want."
I am asking for nothing more than what is already proven fair. My suggested spread tightening is not tighter than steady aim so hipfire with steady aim will be more effective. 80% mobility while ads is on smgs in mw3 as well as being on all pump shotguns since cod 2. With my proposals you will get range performance inbetween steady aim and non steady aim while ads for the cost of 20% mobility. Just like smgs. It will still always be more effective to hipfire with steady aim than ads with my proposals. Steady aim hipfire will have a tighter spread and 100% mobility. My proposals just give the pump shotgun user an incentive to ads when not using steady aim.
"You seem to want everybody to pick a shotgun on every map."
No. I just want to pick shotguns up out of the gutters where IW has currently thown them and show people what shotguns were made to do. I'll give you a hint. Its not this...
« Last Edit: Jul 12, 2012, 1:16am by Brick2urface »
Re: Shotgun Minimum Damage Testing - Spas Buffed t « Reply #892 on Jul 11, 2012, 10:32pm »
Brick when will you take my advice and just realize that they're retarded. What happened is the absolute worst case scenario in design where the designer doesn't know anything about what's he's designing.
Re: Shotgun Minimum Damage Testing - Spas Buffed t « Reply #893 on Jul 11, 2012, 10:46pm »
I have been talking to mark a ton rescently. He said there is no way that shotguns will not change in the rebalance they are planning. I am trying to get him to play some shotguns with me to drive home our buff proposals. I think if I can get him to do that then we will see some positive changes to the shotgun class.
Joined: Jan 2012 Gender: Male Posts: 835 Location: PSN- warden816
Re: Shotgun Minimum Damage Testing - Spas Buffed t « Reply #896 on Jul 11, 2012, 11:44pm »
I'm getting page not found also. Come on a really want to see that Foxtrotter's performance. Oh and brick I can paste that comment up there on the shotgun balance thread if you want me to.
« Last Edit: Jul 11, 2012, 11:50pm by moabmauler »
![[Home]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/home.gif "[Home]")
![[New Topics]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/topics.png "[New Topics]")
![[Help]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/help.gif "[Help]")
![[Search]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/search.gif "[Search]")
![[Login]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/login.gif "[Login]")
![[Register]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/register.gif "[Register]")
![[Search This Thread]](http://images.proboards.com/search2.gif "[Search This Thread]")
![[Share Topic]](http://images.proboards.com/new/buttons/share.png "[Share Topic]")
Author![[avatar]](http://i.imgur.com/C4SPH.png "[avatar]")
Logged![[avatar]](http://images.wikia.com/callofduty/images/b/be/ArmyPro.png "[avatar]")
![[avatar]](http://i47.tinypic.com/2e3233c.png "[avatar]")
![[avatar]](http://www.abload.de/img/hitgirl200p4dznx.jpg "[avatar]")
![[avatar]](http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/3421/thehawkny.png "[avatar]")
![[avatar]](http://gifguppy.com/css/images/movies/thor/tableflip.gif "[avatar]")
![[avatar]](http://fi.somethingawful.com/safs/titles/82/e7/00167728.0001.gif "[avatar]")
![[avatar]](http://imageshack.us/a/img17/7360/90615208.png "[avatar]")
![[avatar]](http://i39.tinypic.com/24d22it.jpg "[avatar]")
.