the more i read this thread, ...the more I keep thinking most of these guys who are complaining about 'spawn trapping' are just lone-wolf type players...who despise people who play with friends. So they want to downplay the clan players, give them crap.
First of all, let me say this... I am the greatest MW3 player of all times -- so y'all have to listen to me.
Second of all... I'm sorry, but to refer to guys 'complaining about' anything after considering the entire thread topic is a bit hypocritical. Now please note: the purpose of this post is just for "FUN", which you claim as well while amassing a 30 page report regarding the just nature of "spawn trapping", and subsequently the high degree of skill and coordination required to attain it. I would like to address your key points just for "fun", whilst kicking myself in the balls for reading more than one page of this inane post.
IS SPAWN TRAPPING AN EXPLOIT? YES
Now I'm no Merriam Webster (who was actually an extra-terrestrial responsible for language development and solar rap music -- known as Balzak in Arab), but to say a "Spawn Trap" is not an "exploit" is contradictory in of itself:
"Spawn" -- (in relation to FPS games) the act of re-entering the field-of-play after being killed; event of a game 'Spawning System' intended to balance field-of-play following player kill events.
"Trap" -- (in general) A stratagem for catching or tricking an unwary person, or poor defenseless mice.
"Exploit" -- (in relation to FPS games) "a strategem for catching or tricking players" by tipping the scales of ANY "system intended to balance field-of-play" in your favor.
"Douche Bag" -- an MW3 player who proactively "spawn traps" in Domination with a group of 4+ other players in party and then complains about getting paired up with a player not privy to, or saavy enough, for such advanced in-game tactics.
IS THIS THREAD FUN? NO
Since it's perfectly logical to contend that if you have 3 or more "decent" players in your party you will end up winning 90+% of all pub game matchups regardless of who you are paired with and the game mode being played. This fact alone negates the merit of the entire thread and I really should have kicked my own balls several times now but do not have the courage or proper gear as I'm wearing sandals and a hawaiian shirt, and barbecuing, listening to r&b, with all kinds of sexy girls in bikinis splashing each others buttocks in my pool ... which i installed in my FRONT YARD so all the neighbors can see when they drive to work... just talkin' bout K/Ds... yea.
Holy crap, was there ever a post so awesome as this? How did you get to be so S-Rank?
« Last Edit: Feb 15, 2012, 11:26pm by shaktazuki »
One thing I noticed in this discussion is that certain bros seem to be keying in on certain negative buzzwords and labels.
In particular the phrase "spawn trap" seems to have some doubly negative connotations that really sets folks off.
I think if you re-frame it correctly you'll see a domination "spawn trap" is simply a linear cordon of defenders preventing the trapped team from getting at 2 of the 3 flags. It is an area defense strategy used for indirectly protecting enough objectives to win a Dom game. There are alternative primarily defensive strategies. A point defense strategy would over-watch the flags directly. I use this personally on "B" when I play mercenary domination. A perimeter area defense strategy encompassing two flags could work on very large maps or if spawns flip frequently The large Battlefield maps make these alternative strategies more sensible but for COD generally the maps are tight and a linear cordon allows the defenders to maintain completely secure anchors to their left and right flanks. But a linear cordon becomes a bad strategy if your force density is too low to defend the required line or if the spawns can flip easily.
The cordon defense works for the following reasons (if properly set up): * You know very well where the enemy will be coming from. This is super important. Most strategies do not control the spawns hardly at all. * You present only frontal defensive positions ... with NO flanks to maneuver around. Attackers love flanks. * Puts your team in defensive positions that improve their gunfight success because of concealment and/or cover. * Forces the trapped team to attack these strong defensive positions to their disadvantage and inverts the normal relationship of attacker and defender. Now the attacking team has the tactical advantage. * Puts time and space between the trapped team and the nearest flag. * Gives some room for retreat under pressure.
It also has weaknesses, dependent on the map and general cordon line chosen: * It can be hard to establish. * Individual scores are not as high because you are not getting very many caps and defends. * Requires coordinated action by a team. I find it is not really possible with randoms. * Can be easily destroyed by in-disciplined play by just one friendly penetrating the enemy spawn. * Defenders may not be very mutually supporting / there may be a long distance b/t left and right defense. * It is not foolproof from breach at all by a competent team. The trapped team may do a variety of actions to break the trap. Concentration on one sector, cover and movement by pairs, etc. This is in addition to technical measures like explosives, riot shields, recon/assault drones, Juggs, CUAV & EMP, Smoke, Flashes, Tactical Insertions after breach, etc.
Remember that in domination you can't exterminate, surround or otherwise utterly destroy the enemy like in real war. Otherwise people would be pissed at the resulting short one sided matches. Instead your enemy will inevitably re-spawn where you are not. So the next best thing you can do is to control them for the duration of the match. A properly conducted linear cordon is one of the best strategies for doing just that.
Great post, fred. I learnt a lot from this. Very educational, and entertaining to read too.
I like this direction as where this discussion should be going : Assuming the green guy could not care less about spawn trapping, what alternative offensive / defensive strategies should the party adopt to maximize the chance of winning. In this case, cordon defense completely breaks down because the spawn system "parachutes" the enemies behind the line of defense.
« Last Edit: Feb 16, 2012, 12:32am by wittyscorpion »
Re: How do people handle the dreaded 'Green Guy' « Reply #92 on Feb 16, 2012, 9:46am »
you guys are right, its the 'right' way to play the game. i used to do it all the time in the early 90s in a game called Street Fighter II. Same principles as Fred provided apply. The trick was to knock your opponent up in the air and into a corner (which required a bit of good skill mind you), and then crouch next to him and repeatedly hit the lowest-damage kick button (which required great discipline) so it went something like "yayayayayayayayayaya". If you timed it right you could maintain the "trap". I believe the technical term back then was "cheesing". It was a very rewarding game-style that made you feel good inside.
Assuming the green guy could not care less about spawn trapping, what alternative offensive / defensive strategies should the party adopt to maximize the chance of winning. In this case, cordon defense completely breaks down because the spawn system "parachutes" the enemies behind the line of defense.
We've been playing less than full squads a lot lately (6 to 8 people in Ground War, rather than a full squad)....and i think the best strategy is simply visual call outs. Everyone keeps an eye on the Green Guy(s). Treat them almost like an opponent. So like it's not your 7 people, plus 2 Greenies vs 9 people....it's more like your 7people vs 11 opponents. That's how i view it. Green guys are usually a liability.
So when you are playing...everyone has to call out when the GG moves close to the spawn areas. Just shout it out if he's getting an itch to rush.....and then whoever is closest to your back flag ....that person can anticipate the enemy respawn, camp that flag, and pick them off. That's pretty much what we do and it seems to work. Love to hear other ideas though.
And lets be real...the GG will probably wreck things 99% of the time. I don't think it's always stupidity on his part. A lot of times it is intentional. I think they don't have the patience to wait things out. That's another key to defending the two flags....patience. Each person who has an area locked down...has to understand that sometimes enemies aren't coming your way. But you need to wait it out, don't leave your spot and go rushing off chasing kills. Green guys ALWAYS f*ck this up royally. I'll see them sit out a spot...nothing happen for 20 seconds...they get impatient and go running off into the spawn looking for enemies. BANG...the spawn then flips...everyone has enemies on their rear.
Re: How do people handle the dreaded 'Green Guy' « Reply #94 on Feb 16, 2012, 1:34pm »
^: Used be an GG myself, I can offer some insights from their perspective:
When the trap is set: what they'll see are a lot of red dots near the 3rd flag. Why not switch to a speedy rush class with PP90M1 or Shotty and run in to get some multi-kills, maybe cap the flag while at it? That's the typical reaction anybody would have if he does not know what spawn trapping is.
What about repeated warnings from teammates? There are several possible issues here:
Possibility 1: He has no idea who you are referring to when you say "Green Guy", because he has been playing for a while and no longer considers himself greenish. He thought that you are talking about somebody else.
Possibility 2: He has been playing lone wolf all the time and at one point he decided to turn the game chat volume dial all the way to the minimum. As a result, he is deaf to whatever the teammates are saying.
Possibility 3: he knows what spawning trapping is about, he hears what teammates are saying, and he is taking advantage of all these information for KDR boosting. Every time a spawn trap is set, it is like harvest season to him. He will run straight to the spawn points near the 3rd flag and kill opponents right after they spawn (that is indeed an exploit). Enemy spawn behind teammates? He could not care less. He will got off the third flag after the killing frenzy, wait for the trap to be set again, then repeat.
For case 1 (hopefully the majority): we just need to improve our communication better. Pay attention to his gamer tag, refer to him by that, and try to get him to talk. Once we can make him feel as part of the team and not outsider to a big party, it would be a lot easier to let him know what he should not be doing. Most players want to work with the teammates, they just need to know how.
For case 2 and 3: it's pretty much lost cause. In either case they will not communicate or follow instructions. In these cases, what you and Fred said are all great ideas. The defense setup needs to have depth, not a thin line. Some teammates needs to put their TI near owned flags instead of near the trap exit (or equal distance to both). If the GG is a good player and he can rush effectively, then maybe the other teammates should rush in with him so he is not getting all the fun.
« Last Edit: Feb 16, 2012, 1:38pm by wittyscorpion »
If the GG is a good player and he can rush effectively, then maybe the other teammates should rush in with him so he is not getting all the fun.
I think I have an idea that might be a good compromise. Instead of relying on the spawn trap to hold until the enemy breaks it, set it up and wait a couple of seconds then before GG can charge in alone have your whole party make a coordinated push into their spawn kill everyone take the flag as a group and double back toward B to start it over again. If it needs a name I want it to be called the blitz. You guys would be better suited to working out the execution of this than me, but I think it would be better than GG breaking the spawn trap and having the enemy kill you from behind. Good, bad, stupid?
Thought about it some more and it would enable you to have a head start at a spawn trap on the other flag. Can you spawn trap either flag on some maps or is it just one side?
So when you are playing...everyone has to call out when the GG moves close to the spawn areas. Just shout it out if he's getting an itch to rush.....and then whoever is closest to your back flag ....that person can anticipate the enemy respawn, camp that flag, and pick them off. That's pretty much what we do and it seems to work. Love to hear other ideas though.
And lets be real...the GG will probably wreck things 99% of the time. I don't think it's always stupidity on his part. A lot of times it is intentional. I think they don't have the patience to wait things out. That's another key to defending the two flags....patience. Each person who has an area locked down...has to understand that sometimes enemies aren't coming your way. But you need to wait it out, don't leave your spot and go rushing off chasing kills. Green guys ALWAYS f*ck this up royally. I'll see them sit out a spot...nothing happen for 20 seconds...they get impatient and go running off into the spawn looking for enemies. BANG...the spawn then flips...everyone has enemies on their rear.
I think your comment on patience, or lack there of, has nearly nailed down the biggest factor for those types of players. I myself am one of those players... and I'm not even the "Green Guy" at times. I mean I've had my own teammates get upset with me, because I caused enemies to spawn behind them, but to be honest, I can't stand waiting around for doo-doo to happen... I feel like for the game to not get boring I have to be on the hunt all the time. IMO, the game is too arcade-y and to rambo-ish to be one in which I feel like I have to play as a conservative role player.
I prefer to keep the action rolling all the time by being on the move throughout the whole match. Now, this doesn't mean that I'm the idiot who's purposely running into the enemy's capping area during a closely contested Domination match, but it does mean that I'm the type of player who likes to remain near an enemy's single territory and that I end up flirting with triggering spawn flips. My play style usually has me bouncing between multiple locations between the neutral flag and the enemy's capped territory, that is if we have the upper hand. In doing so, I'm hoping to catch enemies off guard or flank them when they attempt to push out of their territory. I very much prefer this strategy verses holding down a particular line of sight from behind cover or from a strategic location and especially verses chilling out or waiting near a specific territory.
However, this play style does see me pushing into an enemy territory when I'm trying to finish off a wounded enemy or when I'm trying to get behind a particular enemy who's proven to be a pain in the butt for the team. These actions almost always will cause a spawn flip, but in most of the times when I'm litterally pushing directly into the enemy territory there isn't a defined spawn trap in place anyways, yet I admit that my action is surely preventing one from forming as well.
In regards to triple capping, I only attempt them when the team I'm on, regardless to whether it's mostly my friends or randoms, is a team that is clearly more dominant or in a game where we are far enough behind and with time running low that we require a triple cap to recover lost ground. Plus, there are those occasions when you want to have specific territories and in achieving them you end up taking three before the enemy takes one back.
Lastly, there is something that you also may be forgetting too and that is the competitions that are waged on ELITE. I use to enroll into a lot of the competitions, but not anymore (reason: I don't care anymore). However, some of those competitions require players to grab as many territories as possible and that will have players trying to take anything that's available instead of trying to hold pat when the team has the upper hand already.
BTW, IW5000 it sounds like you'd hate to play Domination with me... just like some others on my friends list who refuse to play Dom with me because I'm not satisfied with just holding down a single area. Oh well. Then again, your idea about calling out the spawn flip and watching for enemies from behind is perhaps the perfect solution for my play style.
If the GG is a good player and he can rush effectively, then maybe the other teammates should rush in with him so he is not getting all the fun.
I think I have an idea that might be a good compromise. Instead of relying on the spawn trap to hold until the enemy breaks it, set it up and wait a couple of seconds then before GG can charge in alone have your whole party make a coordinated push into their spawn kill everyone take the flag as a group and double back toward B to start it over again. If it needs a name I want it to be called the blitz. You guys would be better suited to working out the execution of this than me, but I think it would be better than GG breaking the spawn trap and having the enemy kill you from behind. Good, bad, stupid?
Thought about it some more and it would enable you to have a head start at a spawn trap on the other flag. Can you spawn trap either flag on some maps or is it just one side?
Well this is an exciting method with higher score potential but really only works well if you are already a lot stronger and can "run over" your opponent easily and repeatedly.
I think this is a bad idea if you are more evenly matched. Many of the maps are assymetrical and by switching sides you give the advantage to your opponent.
Assuming the green guy could not care less about spawn trapping, what alternative offensive / defensive strategies should the party adopt to maximize the chance of winning. In this case, cordon defense completely breaks down because the spawn system "parachutes" the enemies behind the line of defense.
We've been playing less than full squads a lot lately (6 to 8 people in Ground War, rather than a full squad)....and i think the best strategy is simply visual call outs. Everyone keeps an eye on the Green Guy(s). Treat them almost like an opponent. So like it's not your 7 people, plus 2 Greenies vs 9 people....it's more like your 7people vs 11 opponents. That's how i view it. Green guys are usually a liability.
So when you are playing...everyone has to call out when the GG moves close to the spawn areas. Just shout it out if he's getting an itch to rush.....and then whoever is closest to your back flag ....that person can anticipate the enemy respawn, camp that flag, and pick them off. That's pretty much what we do and it seems to work. Love to hear other ideas though.
And lets be real...the GG will probably wreck things 99% of the time. I don't think it's always stupidity on his part. A lot of times it is intentional. I think they don't have the patience to wait things out. That's another key to defending the two flags....patience. Each person who has an area locked down...has to understand that sometimes enemies aren't coming your way. But you need to wait it out, don't leave your spot and go rushing off chasing kills. Green guys ALWAYS f*ck this up royally. I'll see them sit out a spot...nothing happen for 20 seconds...they get impatient and go running off into the spawn looking for enemies. BANG...the spawn then flips...everyone has enemies on their rear.
Your suggested "free safety" or "sweeper" technique works well up to a point.
This probably works good in pub matches against randoms but against a good team you know they'll aim for B not the far flag, especially if the flag layout is linear and balanced.
Instead of trying for a predictable and vulnerable solo/dual cap they'll flank/eliminate your cordon positions to make you vulnerable to a push to B.
Joined: Nov 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 1,645 Location: Europe
Re: How do people handle the dreaded 'Green Guy' « Reply #100 on Feb 17, 2012, 6:14am »
I think that “spawn trapping” is how Domination should be played, the higher level of skill, cooperation and understanding how the game works. Running and gunning and capturing again and again like idiot is for noobs.
@iw5000 > the more I keep thinking most of these guys who are complaining about 'spawn trapping' are just lone-wolf type players...who despise people who play with friends. So they want to downplay the clan players, give them crap.
I am a ‘lone-wolf’ player and have nothing against spawn traps. In 6vs6 if I see 2-3 determined clan members in my team I always support them….
In MW2 I had a dedicated class to break Highrise spawn trap using underground tunnel: UMP45+Silencer, Raffica+Silencer, smoke, Marathon, ColdBlooded, Ninja … (I am afraid we will not see Highrise in any MW3 DLC as it was spawn trappers heaven …) The same works in MW3: I have “ruch B” class with smoke+BlastShield, and “get out” class with smoke+Assassin etc etc … Thanks to pro spawn trappers Domination is less boring and requires thinking in offence and defence.
> How do people handle the dreaded 'Green Guy'
If 5 clan members play 6vs6 they should be able to kick a new player in objective game modes. Tweet that idea to 402 …
Green Guys make Domination less boring. We have B+C on Mission and he caps A … well, it could be easy win, 5 minutes of defending (a bit boring I admit), but now we need to show our best again. It is still fun.
But I agree with shaktazuki:
“if you have 3 or more "decent" players in your party you will end up winning 90+% of all pub game matchups regardless of who you are paired with and the game mode being played. This fact alone negates the merit of the entire thread.”
“if you have 3 or more "decent" players in your party you will end up winning 90+% of all pub game matchups regardless of who you are paired with and the game mode being played. This fact alone negates the merit of the entire thread.”
How does that negate the merits of this entire thread?
1. The way the above reads, it makes it sound like anyone trying to win is a f*cking idiot. Like 'why win, anyone can do it if you just have three players' type of bullsh*t reasoning. So why bother? Well, how come I don't see almost everyone running around with 9.00 WL ratios if it's that easy? Well? The reality is, i could pull out the profiles of probably everyone on here and very few will have WL ratios that high. So it stands to reason, .......the above comment is not necessarily true.
2. To you and the author of the above quote. Did it occur that some of us maybe don't want to settle for just winning 90%? Maybe we want to win 95% of the games? Maybe we want to win 100%? Speaking for myself, some of us have our own fun by seeing how high we can get our WL ratios...trying to get them into the 30's and 40's (it's not easy, especially with dashboarding). We love the team aspects, playing with friends, and like to win. We aren't from today's generation that has never played a team sport in their lives.
3. What is a 'pub' lobby or opponent? If you are casual player playing on XBox live, you cant' pick your opponents. Some of you make it sound like 'pub players' is like beating a retarded kid. You play who you play. The reality is, everyone here is a 'pub' player. And with that, speaking from experience....the two groups I see who seem to feel they are somehow elite.... guys with MLG tags/icons and the lone-wolf KD d-bags (the guys with 2.95 KD's and 1.87 WL ratios) Both these groups are some of the biggest quitting p*ussies in the CoD universe. First sign of stiff competition, those two groups bail out and quit....and slink off to the corners of the map protecting their KD ratios....screwing over their teammates.
I hear it all the time....
"You guys only won because you had a team, look at my KD, I would mess you up if i had some teammates too and wasn't playing solo"
^^^ The above d-bag has it azz-backwards. He's playing solo BECAUSE of the way he plays. Most teams/groups don't want to play with lone-wolf aholes who will screw over their teammates on the drop of a hat, just for the sake of getting a few extra silly video game kills. The above talking sh*t KD toughguy in my example...he's solo for a reason, and his playstyle is the reason.
Which brings it full circle. It's not as easy as you make it, to simply say IF i had a full team, anyone could win 'x' amount of their matches. No. It's not that easy. It requires you to go play as a team if you want to do that....and 90% of the CoD player base is incapable of doing that.
^^^ The above d-bag has it azz-backwards. He's playing solo BECAUSE of the way he plays. Most teams/groups don't want to play with lone-wolf aholes who will screw over their teammates on the drop of a hat, just for the sake of getting a few extra silly video game kills. The above talking sh*t KD toughguy in my example...he's solo for a reason, and his playstyle is the reason.
I assume you're referring to me with the ^^^ and d-bag name. I'm starting to question just how personal this thread's topic is to you, even though you've mentioned previously that it was a tongue-in-cheek topic. Anyways, I felt I should clarify some things for you as it seems you have a very defined perspective of me and my game play style.
First off, I rarely play SOLO, but then again that also doesn't stop me from playing solo when nobody else on my friends list is playing MW3 or when those that are playing have full parties already. I'm not one of these gamer's who are so driven to protect his/her game stats that they dare not entire games when they don't have the backing of a group of friends or good players to play with, nor would I ever dashboard to maintain some win percentage. Now, this also does not mean that I could care less about losing because I'm always focused on playing to win, but I also recognize the game for what it is... an arcade-y FPS game.
Yes, CoD games stir my competitive passion and they create an inner drive to be successful at them, but the desire to be successful is also balanced between having fun too. I'm not so obsessed on winning that I'm willing to wait for a group of friends to play with, nor does it drive me to change my play style from an aggressive run and gun style with little patience to one set on being meticulous and patient. I know that my play style can fit fine into the "team" concept all while preventing the game from becoming a dull and boring strategic camp fest... as I'm sure my winning ways are reflected in my winning percentage... whatever it may be. Thing is, the teammates I'm playing with also need not be so serious and obsessed with destroying the opposing team that they scream bloody murder if a few enemies end up spawning behind them every once in a while. Besides, it's not as if those I will be playing with are playing for money in an actual competition for god sake.
Anyways, if I want a more serious and realistic modern combat FPS game I'll play Battlefield and if I want a more intense competitive FPS game I'll pop in Halo. I want CoD to be the game where my unadulterated aggressive play style can be a successful winning tactic nonetheless... and if I get matched-up against a team such as the one you prefer to play on then I'm sure there will be plenty of frustration, but that still doesn't make me want to change what's fun about the game just for a better K:D ratio or a slightly better winning percentage. Like I said in my earlier post, I'm not the type of player who will purposely run into an enemy's flag just to try to triple cap every moment of the game, but I'm not going to just sit around waiting for an enemy to cross my path either. Knowing that I'll have the upper hand without much risk equals a boring game play style for a CoD game. I do try to blend my play style with what works within the team... if my team has pinned the opposing team down then I try to maneuver without flipping the enemies spawns, but obviously that's not always the case regardless to how little or how much I try to avoid it because I'm not about to start dulling down the CoD game-play experience just to please a few narcissistic campy teammates, especially in a game that's as good as won already.
Which brings it full circle. It's not as easy as you make it, to simply say IF i had a full team, anyone could win 'x' amount of their matches. No. It's not that easy. It requires you to go play as a team if you want to do that....and 90% of the CoD player base is incapable of doing that.
Your comment "...and 90% of the CoD player base is incapable of doing that (playing as a team)." is not right. Clearly the 90% thing was pulled straight out of thin air, but more importantly the word incapable is just not accurate. It's not that they are incapable of playing as a team, it's that (in your opinion) the majority of the player base does not feel obligated to follow the strict team-concept guidelines that you adhere too and those players may then tend to ignore the instructions of the few who are telling them how they must play the game as they deem "correct". Leading us back to the point of this topic, "How do ...the egocentric, seriously obsessed, ultra competitive, strategic team-based patient campers, who foolishly went into an objective game without a full squad of dependable role players... handle the dreaded 'Green Guy'", and the answer to that question is simple... factor in the expected and unexpected, adjust your game-play accordingly and conquer. There, the topic is now settled.
“if you have 3 or more "decent" players in your party you will end up winning 90+% of all pub game matchups regardless of who you are paired with and the game mode being played. This fact alone negates the merit of the entire thread.”
How does that negate the merits of this entire thread?
On PC, a party of 3 decent players wins every game any objective game mode if against randoms (6vs6), so "GG case" is non existent.
A party of 4 wins 110% of games they play, 5 guys win 150% of games regardless who is the 6th guy.
I assume on consoles things look a bit different...
Sometimes I join a DOM game, my team: 3 clan members, 2 randoms and me - lone wolf, and I have nothing to do. 2 flags captured, I see no enemies. I must run into their spawn to see them ... I can test strange weapons, try to get to secret spots, maybe some glitching or running around to unlock Ex Con PRO, scanning the sky with Thermal, etc etc... Easy win: 200-100 roughly.
-----
tl;dr: On PC 4 clan members DO NOT CARE who is the 5th and 6th teammate, they are IRRELEVANT regardless what they do.
Re: How do people handle the dreaded 'Green Guy' « Reply #105 on Feb 18, 2012, 8:41am »
I don't spawn trap, no need to I'll win regardless so if I'm going to win I'm going to win having fun/variety.
If I play with a party the other team will stay in their spawn to get kills anyway so we'll rush it to flip the spawn. Out in the open it's open season.
On PC, a party of 3 decent players wins every game any objective game mode if against randoms (6vs6), so "GG case" is non existent. [. . . . ] I assume on consoles things look a bit different...
Re: How do people handle the dreaded 'Green Guy' « Reply #107 on Feb 18, 2012, 9:35am »
"Again, won't make a difference.
IW could to a 100% pure, completely randonmized system where people could spawn anywhere, at random, even next to people...but then people will whine about spawning next to people. So that's a no-go. So as long as there is a formula in place (spawn on own flag, spawn on empty area, etc..)...any group of people, a good group, playing together will quickly figure out how the system /formula works and adjust to it. "
LOL, this is so wrong it's not even funny, I'd love to see you spawn trap people in TDM or KC.
first would bet I know more how to win at domination then all of you. 1v1 gamebattles or just pub.
seeing what you write in the rest of the thread...i highly doubt it. But I'll still address your points.
How? A win is a win.
Speaking for myself and the guys i play with, most all of us are married. So no worries about picking up women....and with that, where do you see anyone discussing KD ratio. You seem concerned about the KD, but as I have said repeatedly, this is not a KD issue. It's about having fun and playing to the spirit of the objective...winning. The KD is what it is as a result of winning.
The winning team wins.
Play like 'man'? How is that? Who is this Stereotypical CoD 'man'??? As far as 'fun'....We are having fun. Who are you to say we aren't? We do have fun. And we do 'run' at times, while we win.
Actually, you couldn't...so you come on. Stop the hyperbole.
Quote:
And once you get better, you will still figure out about where they spawn while your tripple capping
Get better? If you are playing to win, constant triple capping won't beat decent teams. So please define better?
wow please buy a brain this is so sad on so many level
oh and you have no idea on how bad I would crush you. I would crush your full party of 6 with like 2-3 of my friend that have negative k/d ratio. I would crush you triple caping all day. And yeah i could win most game without shoting my pistol
yeah I was ranked 1 at this game for domination at some point, because I score pretty high per minute. But that does not really mean anything, the only thing I am really good at is winning all my match. I have never ever ever lost with a party of 4 and more. Its not possible
you guys got no idea on how to score point per minute , keep good lobie alive and Win game if you dont triple cap. Sorry its that simple
that green guy that go on the tird flag that makes you scream because your bad, he is a beast
Secondly, I maintain that the most fun to have in Dom is to have two near-full teams play against each other, each is trying to take advantage of Dom's spawn system through spawn trapping. IMHO Dom's spawn system is very good for this scenario (well coordinated team vs. well coordinated team), eliminate randomness and focus on team play.
Regarding spawn for the lone guy: the game provides a great way for him to control that: Tactical Insertion. If he does not want to run around the map when a spawn trap is set, he can easily use TI to spawn at wherever close to the action.
I am not going to argue against too much for full team vs. random players that put the other side at a unfair playing field. But that's not what this thread is about. If this is too much of a problem for lone wolf players to play Dom, just back off the lobby and search for a new game. It is very easy to find TDM/KC games and Dom games with no big teams in GW, and they can also go to Mercenary playlist as well. That's what I do when I play alone.
Hey I am with you there ! I wish i could play against even skill level team, or beter team all day. But those does not happen ever. I don't remember the last time I played against a team that wanted to win as much as me. People don't want to win at all cost like me. Wining at this game is all about dying for your team to get B. Nobody ever does that ! ever ! So I dont really loose if I play with like 2-3 teamate, so yeah I am not sure what to say but I wish i could find that game you talk about. Even matched team. But it does not happen. Sometime the game start good, then we fight for B, then if they put too much pressure on B, I tell my friend to slay them a bit around B once we got it, and then thats it. Eventually people are tired of dying and forget about B. Me I can die 1000 times
Maybe once every few month I go in a game, I play against a guy, and I notice he has great gun skill, a great jumpshot, good map awareness etc and his party is good, but those are so rare
Pub are not the place to play if you want anything competitive All I am saying I guess is if your spawn traping with a full party lolol you suck and your score will be bad, you will have to find new lobie all day. And you wont imnprove your gunskill. Only reason I would think to spawn trap is if you stream and try to get people to watch you and make a name for yourself by getting MOAB. Other then that its sad
Sorry I sound so mean but I got to defend that lone green rambo guy. He is the only one playing this game right
Secondly, I maintain that the most fun to have in Dom is to have two near-full teams play against each other, each is trying to take advantage of Dom's spawn system through spawn trapping. IMHO Dom's spawn system is very good for this scenario (well coordinated team vs. well coordinated team), eliminate randomness and focus on team play.
Regarding spawn for the lone guy: the game provides a great way for him to control that: Tactical Insertion. If he does not want to run around the map when a spawn trap is set, he can easily use TI to spawn at wherever close to the action.
I am not going to argue against too much for full team vs. random players that put the other side at a unfair playing field. But that's not what this thread is about. If this is too much of a problem for lone wolf players to play Dom, just back off the lobby and search for a new game. It is very easy to find TDM/KC games and Dom games with no big teams in GW, and they can also go to Mercenary playlist as well. That's what I do when I play alone.
Hey I am with you there ! I wish i could play against even skill level team, or beter team all day. But those does not happen ever. I don't remember the last time I played against a team that wanted to win as much as me. People don't want to win at all cost like me. Wining at this game is all about dying for your team to get B. Nobody ever does that ! ever ! So I dont really loose if I play with like 2-3 teamate, so yeah I am not sure what to say but I wish i could find that game you talk about. Even matched team. But it does not happen. Sometime the game start good, then we fight for B, then if they put too much pressure on B, I tell my friend to slay them a bit around B once we got it, and then thats it. Eventually people are tired of dying and forget about B. Me I can die 1000 times trying to get B I don't care. I put a very high amount of pressure on B
Maybe once every few month I go in a game, I play against a guy, and I notice he has great gun skill, a great jumpshot, good map awareness etc and his party is good, but those are so rare
Pub are not the place to play if you want anything competitive All I am saying I guess is if your spawn traping with a full party lolol you suck and your score will be bad, you will have to find new lobie all day. And you wont imnprove your gunskill. Only reason I would think to spawn trap is if you stream and try to get people to watch you and make a name for yourself by getting MOAB. Other then that its sad
Sorry I sound so mean but I got to defend that lone green rambo guy. He is the only one playing this game right
Re: How do people handle the dreaded 'Green Guy' « Reply #111 on Feb 20, 2012, 7:23am »
I love that parapapa guy. This is the best quote ever "Me I can die 1000 times trying to get B I don't care. I put a very high amount of pressure on B"
The problem with MW3 is that the fun of domination isn't there. There are very few "B crazy" maps. Remember Rundown? Highrise? Favela? Nuketown? Derail? Launch? Jungle? These maps are ALL about domination and NOTHING about kills, I hate you if you think that is a bad thing. Stick to TDM
Even Dome and Hardhat, the two smallest maps on MW3, have no crazy B points. This makes it very very easy to control. In Bakaara Ground War Domination I cannot remember the last time I didn't get 75 kills in the game. And that's usually with 1 or 2 deaths and 4 consecutive Pavelows. I can maintain a position of insane dominance over 2 points rarely risking my life and win to 100.
^^^ The above d-bag has it azz-backwards. He's playing solo BECAUSE of the way he plays. Most teams/groups don't want to play with lone-wolf aholes who will screw over their teammates on the drop of a hat, just for the sake of getting a few extra silly video game kills. The above talking sh*t KD toughguy in my example...he's solo for a reason, and his playstyle is the reason.
I assume you're referring to me with the ^^^ and d-bag name.
No. I wasn't. I was referring to my own personal hypothetical example which was clearly listed in my thread. (and it seems to be clearly marked even above, why would you even think it's you????)
[ On PC, a party of 3 decent players wins every game any objective game mode if against randoms (6vs6), so "GG case" is non existent. .
Sorry, but that comes across as some big time bluster.
A party of three 'decent' players is NOT going to win EVERY objective game they play. Especially in 6 v 6. No way. No chance. Not going to happen. It's impossible. I'm not even sure why you would go that route. That's absurd.
If that is the reason you feel my point was negated, ...why it's irrelevant what green guys do ...because 3 'decent' guys will always win EVERY single game they play....you failed there with your point.
wow please buy a brain this is so sad on so many level
oh and you have no idea on how bad I would crush you. I would crush your full party of 6 with like 2-3 of my friend that have negative k/d ratio. I would crush you triple caping all day. And yeah i could win most game without shoting my pistol yeah I was ranked 1 at this game for domination at some point, because I score pretty high per minute. But that does not really mean anything, the only thing I am really good at is winning all my match. I have never ever ever lost with a party of 4 and more. Its not possible
Secondly, I maintain that the most fun to have in Dom is to have two near-full teams play against each other, each is trying to take advantage of Dom's spawn system through spawn trapping. IMHO Dom's spawn system is very good for this scenario (well coordinated team vs. well coordinated team), eliminate randomness and focus on team play.
Regarding spawn for the lone guy: the game provides a great way for him to control that: Tactical Insertion. If he does not want to run around the map when a spawn trap is set, he can easily use TI to spawn at wherever close to the action.
I am not going to argue against too much for full team vs. random players that put the other side at a unfair playing field. But that's not what this thread is about. If this is too much of a problem for lone wolf players to play Dom, just back off the lobby and search for a new game. It is very easy to find TDM/KC games and Dom games with no big teams in GW, and they can also go to Mercenary playlist as well. That's what I do when I play alone.
Hey I am with you there ! I wish i could play against even skill level team, or beter team all day. But those does not happen ever. I don't remember the last time I played against a team that wanted to win as much as me. People don't want to win at all cost like me. Wining at this game is all about dying for your team to get B. Nobody ever does that ! ever ! So I dont really loose if I play with like 2-3 teamate, so yeah I am not sure what to say but I wish i could find that game you talk about. Even matched team. But it does not happen. Sometime the game start good, then we fight for B, then if they put too much pressure on B, I tell my friend to slay them a bit around B once we got it, and then thats it. Eventually people are tired of dying and forget about B. Me I can die 1000 times
Maybe once every few month I go in a game, I play against a guy, and I notice he has great gun skill, a great jumpshot, good map awareness etc and his party is good, but those are so rare
Pub are not the place to play if you want anything competitive All I am saying I guess is if your spawn traping with a full party lolol you suck and your score will be bad, you will have to find new lobie all day. And you wont imnprove your gunskill. Only reason I would think to spawn trap is if you stream and try to get people to watch you and make a name for yourself by getting MOAB. Other then that its sad
Sorry I sound so mean but I got to defend that lone green rambo guy. He is the only one playing this game right
A few points.
1. Wow, you die 1,000 times in a game trying to grab B. You are a champ.
2. I was going to address some other points, then realized (upon reading your posts a second time)....that I have no clue where to start with most of what you write. I'm just kind of scratching my head and realizing it's pointless.
i joined a game of gw domination in arkaden last night solo and it was the biggest cluster furk game that i've ever been in.
we started by capping A and B. I tried holding the enemy off B while protecting the entrence of A. Then all hell broke loose...Greenies started going towards C from the bottom level, the enemies that just died started spawning behind me at A and the ones that were spawning in the building above C split between going to A and capping it and forcing our teammates off C.
At this point I started spawning at the lower level next to B where I was instantly killed from guys spawning at the now captured C. I spawn at A cap that and try to go for B but again by that point it was pretty much a down hill crash because I was getting murdered from my flanks. I don't recall ever getting killed so many times from enemies coming from my flank. No communication or strategy...
If the greenies were smart they would have defend A and B for an easy win. I ended up first on my team something along the line of 34/12 or something so I did my part but we lost by 100 or something. It was bad...not sure if this is remotely tied to the OP at all but felt like sharing
Good post...it does tie in to all we are discussing. You obviously know what end is up, know how Dom works when you start triple capping.....and what you described is pretty much dead on accurate. You have to ask yourself.....how is the above 'fun'? Go through your experience (killed from behind, no communication, mess of a game, lose the game)....or.....control the game, keep the enemies in front of you, communicate, AND win. It's a no brainer.
Yet all throughout this thread, you keep reading from people talking about how it's more 'manly' to triple cap. That one should triple cap right away (without even knowing how good the opponent is), because that's how REAL CoD players should play...or worse yet, if you keep two flags, hold them down, you are 'exploiting' the game mechanics.
the more i read this thread, ...the more I keep thinking most of these guys who are complaining about 'spawn trapping' are just lone-wolf type players...who despise people who play with friends. So they want to downplay the clan players, give them crap.
I play lone wolf most of the time and have played against lobbies of friends and that's the first thing I expect and prepare for.
Yesterday my team got spawn trapped at A on interchange. All I can do was try to hold them off from flanking the left side coming from C. As soon as I got some Greenies to sacrafice themselve a few of us broke out and went for C. But they repeated and I took it on the chin. Happened more than once actually. Some games I spawn in and hear air support, enemy team is winning by 100 tickets and I get killed as I spawn. If I feel like working out of that I stay but sometimes I'm not in the mood and rejoin another lobby. Simple.
I totally agree with you. That's the best way to WIN domination. Sure you can trip-cap a really bummy team, but they really have too be garbo and you'd have to be much more orchestrated and at the end its much more work than funneling them in.
I've said this before in another post in this thread: the people complaining about spawn killing in domination of any CoD game shouldn't complain until they have played BC1/BC2 rush and get spawn killed by the attackers. Complete control and dominance is when the attackers pin the defenders at their spawn...I mean completely spawn locked where as you spawn you get knifed or a 120 shell to the face WITHOUT any spawn protection.
Anyway, imo, after a long time of gw domination (10th prestige now) the best way and obvious way is to maintain control of A/C and B and pin the enemies to a predictable spawn or flow of direction. The only time you get wild erratic games is when you are playing with 8 uncoordinated, unskilled, ignorant gamers. Especially in gw because you have a mix of players that are good in other game modes: tdm or kill confirmed. I've noticed a lot more understanding when I play regular domination though and the idle situation is when my team holds the enemy to one flag and one spawn. It's simple: I don't want to get shot from behind due to an erratic spawn flip.
I assume you're referring to me with the ^^^ and d-bag name.
No. I wasn't. I was referring to my own personal hypothetical example which was clearly listed in my thread. (and it seems to be clearly marked even above, why would you even think it's you????)
Hopefully that clears that up.
I see now...
Reason I thought you were referring to me was because of the three carrots (^^^). I thought you were trying to point back to three posters previous, which would have been me. However, after re-reading your post I get that it was referencing the character quote you put right before the carrots.
Re: How do people handle the dreaded 'Green Guy' « Reply #117 on Feb 20, 2012, 6:32pm »
I'm going to raise up another point.
When you hear talk about people grouping up in a 'party'....a group of six, seven, eight or nine...whatever it may be, there are some misconceptions going on.
Today I played some games with a party of seven to eight people on Ground War Domination. Six of the eight people had never played before. So in essence, when we joined up into the lobbies....we weren't really any different from the other group of nine players we were opposing. We were eight people who just grouped up...no different from the nine opponents who grouped up. We won like ten straight games.
While there are many reasons we won .......one reason that can be stricken off the list was because we were "IN A GROUP'. As said, our group was recently just as 'randomized' as the opponents. I think there is a huge misconception with people. It's not the 'grouping' that helps win games....like just forming a party gives an auto win. It's the communication that goes on by the players inside the group, and playing the right way, ...that wins the games. There is a difference.
wow please buy a brain this is so sad on so many level
oh and you have no idea on how bad I would crush you. I would crush your full party of 6 with like 2-3 of my friend that have negative k/d ratio. I would crush you triple caping all day. And yeah i could win most game without shoting my pistol yeah I was ranked 1 at this game for domination at some point, because I score pretty high per minute. But that does not really mean anything, the only thing I am really good at is winning all my match. I have never ever ever lost with a party of 4 and more. Its not possible
Hey I am with you there ! I wish i could play against even skill level team, or beter team all day. But those does not happen ever. I don't remember the last time I played against a team that wanted to win as much as me. People don't want to win at all cost like me. Wining at this game is all about dying for your team to get B. Nobody ever does that ! ever ! So I dont really loose if I play with like 2-3 teamate, so yeah I am not sure what to say but I wish i could find that game you talk about. Even matched team. But it does not happen. Sometime the game start good, then we fight for B, then if they put too much pressure on B, I tell my friend to slay them a bit around B once we got it, and then thats it. Eventually people are tired of dying and forget about B. Me I can die 1000 times
Maybe once every few month I go in a game, I play against a guy, and I notice he has great gun skill, a great jumpshot, good map awareness etc and his party is good, but those are so rare
Pub are not the place to play if you want anything competitive All I am saying I guess is if your spawn traping with a full party lolol you suck and your score will be bad, you will have to find new lobie all day. And you wont imnprove your gunskill. Only reason I would think to spawn trap is if you stream and try to get people to watch you and make a name for yourself by getting MOAB. Other then that its sad
Sorry I sound so mean but I got to defend that lone green rambo guy. He is the only one playing this game right
A few points.
1. Wow, you die 1,000 times in a game trying to grab B. You are a champ.
2. I was going to address some other points, then realized (upon reading your posts a second time)....that I have no clue where to start with most of what you write. I'm just kind of scratching my head and realizing it's pointless.
[/quote]
Sorry if your braindead ! your so funny, so you think triple caping is bad ! ahhhhh so if i were to play against you to show you got no gunskill and are just a terrible not smart player. Eventualy my party would get A and B, now you think because we would go for C we would insta loose ? If you defend and we don't get C, we still push you back keep you on defensive away from our 2 capture point, likely giving you doo-doo spawn. And if we get it, so your triple caped loosing many points. So now you spawn on the other side of the map and have to capture a new hhome flag... I wonder who win here. My nadespot are sick you and you got to capture a new homeflag, you loose
1. Wow, you die 1,000 times in a game trying to grab B. You are a champ.
2. I was going to address some other points, then realized (upon reading your posts a second time)....that I have no clue where to start with most of what you write. I'm just kind of scratching my head and realizing it's pointless.
Sorry if your braindead ! your so funny, so you think triple caping is bad ! ahhhhh so if i were to play against you to show you got no gunskill and are just a terrible not smart player. Eventualy my party would get A and B, now you think because we would go for C we would insta loose ? If you defend and we don't get C, we still push you back keep you on defensive away from our 2 capture point, likely giving you doo-doo spawn. And if we get it, so your triple caped loosing many points. So now you spawn on the other side of the map and have to capture a new hhome flag... I wonder who win here. My nadespot are sick you and you got to capture a new homeflag, you loose
1. It's 'you're'....not 'your' 2. It's 'you have'....not 'you got' 3. 'terrible not smart player' is phrased wrong 4. 'Eventualy' should be spelled 'Eventually' 5. 'insta loose?'.....i think you meant 'instantly lose' 6. It should be 'losing' not 'loosing' 7. It should be 'who wins here'....not 'who win here' 8. 'My nadespot are sick you' ...this is a trainwreck of grammar 9. 'you loose' should be 'you lose'
ps.....and one last point. Triple Capping isn't 'bad'. You are free to play how you feel is best. The whole original point is that it is just not the most effective way to win the game. And that is 100% correct.
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: Assuming the green guy could not care less about spawn trapping, what alternative offensive / defensive strategies should the party adopt to maximize the chance of winning. In this case, cordon defense completely breaks down because the spawn system "parachutes" the enemies behind the line of defense.
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I am with you there ! I wish i could play against even skill level team, or beter team all day. But those does not happen ever. I don't remember the last time I played against a team that wanted to win as much as me. People don't want to win at all cost like me. Wining at this game is all about dying for your team to get B. Nobody ever does that ! ever ! So I dont really loose if I play with like 2-3 teamate, so yeah I am not sure what to say but I wish i could find that game you talk about. Even matched team. But it does not happen. Sometime the game start good, then we fight for B, then if they put too much pressure on B, I tell my friend to slay them a bit around B once we got it, and then thats it. Eventually people are tired of dying and forget about B. Me I can die 1000 times
All I am saying I guess is if your spawn traping with a full party lolol you suck and your score will be bad, you will have to find new lobie all day. And you wont imnprove your gunskill. Only reason I would think to spawn trap is if you stream and try to get people to watch you and make a name for yourself by getting MOAB. Other then that its sad![[avatar]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3Da2xvioRBk/TpPc-iWHghI/AAAAAAAAJh0/1wcuq_lEQ2E/s1600/hot-lips-710503.jpeg "[avatar]")
