Don't need to make the revolvers-Deagle have 34 damage, make it 31 and if the guy is accurate enough, the multipliers will take care of it. IMO, it's enough so the devs don't whine about it. Also, I don't believe the L118A3 needs a buff, it is a good weapon, the MSR is just better. It could use some help (less sway, upper arm/shoulder 1.1 multiplier), sure, but it's not necessary.
I think the multipliers on the revolvers and the deagle need to be taken out, and just give them flat 50 damage at max range.
Re: Shotgun will not be buffed a second time! « Reply #31 on May 2, 2012, 2:46am »
Multipliers are great, since they reward skill (or hipfiring luck, whatever) and add variety to guns. Some should benefit from that, like the AK-47 and the CM901.
The CM901 could have a 1.4 neck and 1.1 chest multiplier so it's better at range and the AK-47 could use a neck and chest 1.1 multiplier so it's better at close to mid ranges.
Multipliers are great, since they reward skill (or hipfiring luck, whatever) and add variety to guns. Some should benefit from that, like the AK-47 and the CM901.
The CM901 could have a 1.4 neck and 1.1 chest multiplier so it's better at range and the AK-47 could use a neck and chest 1.1 multiplier so it's better at close to mid ranges.
I disagree. All multipliers promote is unreliability. The difference between achieving a two hit kill with a magnum or a three hit kill because one bullet happens to hit the model's forearm is a few milliseconds of lag, and how often does that happen? Practically every game.
Suddenly you have a weapon that gains an advantage versus others based more on chance from either 1) only functioning as intended under elusive circumstances or 2) users just hoping to benefit from the multipliers essentially at random.
In a game like CoD less is more.
I didn't think the devs would buff shotguns again even though a fully/semi auto shotgun being a 4/9 pellet kill with virtually the same range as manual-action shotties which are 4/8 kills makes absolutely no foxtrotting sense to anyone but the weapon dev team.
It's cool arcanine is getting his Drag buff though!
However my most important concern now--which I think we should all be looking at (besides shotguns), is buffing the minimum range damage of the handguns. Non magnum/deagles should 5 shot kill, and deagle/magnums should 3 shot kill.
I agree, but the USP and P99 should have a minimum damage of 25, because they have more recoil than the Five-Seven.
Multipliers are great, since they reward skill (or hipfiring luck, whatever) and add variety to guns. Some should benefit from that, like the AK-47 and the CM901.
The CM901 could have a 1.4 neck and 1.1 chest multiplier so it's better at range and the AK-47 could use a neck and chest 1.1 multiplier so it's better at close to mid ranges.
I disagree. All multipliers promote is unreliability. The difference between achieving a two hit kill with a magnum or a three hit kill because one bullet happens to hit the model's forearm is a few milliseconds of lag, and how often does that happen? Practically every game.
Suddenly you have a weapon that gains an advantage versus others based more on chance from either 1) only functioning as intended under elusive circumstances or 2) users just hoping to benefit from the multipliers essentially at random.
In a game like CoD less is more.
I didn't think the devs would buff shotguns again even though a fully/semi auto shotgun being a 4/9 pellet kill with virtually the same range as manual-action shotties which are 4/8 kills makes absolutely no foxtrotting sense to anyone but the weapon dev team.
It's cool arcanine is getting his Drag buff though!
Ironically I have the Wii version of the game only, and the last patch we've gotten that was gametuning, was on late Feb. We're a bit behind on patches (we need the infinite range lmg patch, overkill 2 attachments on primary, and a few other things). I think its very unlikely us Wii owners will get another gametuning patch. /=
However my most important concern now--which I think we should all be looking at (besides shotguns), is buffing the minimum range damage of the handguns. Non magnum/deagles should 5 shot kill, and deagle/magnums should 3 shot kill.
I agree, but the USP and P99 should have a minimum damage of 25, because they have more recoil than the Five-Seven.
I was playing Blops the other night and it's frankly stunning the difference in the pistols. They have so little recoil you can shoot campers out of windows with the ASP.
In MW3 the hand guns have to compete with OP MP's and yet they give them ridiculous recoil and lower long range damage, just makes no sense at all...
I think that basically, whoever came up with the flip-out stock on the FMG was so pleased with it that they didn't want anyone using any other secondary ever.
I disagree. All multipliers promote is unreliability. The difference between achieving a two hit kill with a magnum or a three hit kill because one bullet happens to hit the model's forearm is a few milliseconds of lag, and how often does that happen? Practically every game.
Suddenly you have a weapon that gains an advantage versus others based more on chance from either 1) only functioning as intended under elusive circumstances or 2) users just hoping to benefit from the multipliers essentially at random.
Although I agree on some of this, I see nothing wrong with having a already bad (in comparison) weapon gaining some advantage over other said weapons. I don't know what kind of guy you are, either the 3arc fanboy "every gun is the same" or the CoD 4 MW2 fanboy "every gun has it role" but for the later, multipliers are capable of some serious game balancing. Hell, Ghandi said even weapon's iron sights are taken in account when talking about stats balancing.
Can you imagine the AA-12, Spas-12 and Model with 2.0 head multipliers (the rest gets 1.4)? It would reward the player that aim the shotties instead of appealing to center mass.
With all that said, it's worth nothing the pistols/shotties get any buff if Akimbo MP are as powerful as they're now.
Re: Shotgun will not be buffed a second time! « Reply #38 on May 2, 2012, 2:43pm »
Quote:
Hell, Ghandi said even weapon's iron sights are taken in account when talking about stats balancing.
What does this have to do with anything? Considering, this was the same MP design team that thought (and still think) the release shotguns were balanced and had to be told that LMGs with a damage drop-off are borderline useless... I don't find their methodology compelling.
It would reward the player that aim the shotties instead of appealing to center mass.
No, it'd mostly just improve the random chance of getting a one shot kill. I disagree even more on this point. I'd rather have shotguns that killed 100% of the time in their designated effective range if the shot was perfectly aligned with nothing left to chance.
Consistency (not chance) rewards skill. Completely random pellet distribution will cause players who had no intention of hitting the head to get headshots even if their aim is bad and players specifically aiming for headshots to not get them no matter how good their aim is...
It would reward the player that aim the shotties instead of appealing to center mass.
No, it'd mostly just improve the random chance of getting a one shot kill. I disagree even more on this point. I'd rather have shotguns that killed 100% of the time in their designated effective range if the shot was perfectly aligned with nothing left to chance.
Consistency (not chance) rewards skill. Completely random pellet distribution will cause players who had no intention of hitting the head to get headshots even if their aim is bad and players specifically aiming for headshots to not get them no matter how good their aim is...
Have you ever gone headshotting with a shotgun only to find out you are not getting your deserved well aimed one shots? Also, when I normally (center mass) play with a shotgun, it's very rare to get a headshot. It's like 5% of all my kills (with all shotties except striker). The aim assist (ps3) automatically take my aim to center mass, and not the head. Now, think with me for a sec: Model damage 30; times 2 = 60. So, 2 pellets in the head to kill. Not hard, and earned.
I really don't dislike the idea of a shotgun killing easily with a headshot. My apologies if you disagree.
Re: Shotgun will not be buffed a second time! « Reply #40 on May 2, 2012, 5:28pm »
All you shotgun whiners still annoy me. Look, the Striker was just a bad idea and it probably ruined any chance at decent shotties. But, if you take that out...shotties are usable once damage/range are unlocked...and I will say it--OP once specialist bonus is unlocked. They will always get hate because they are supposed to give OSK and no chance at defending yourself but I enjoy playing with them when they are OSK in close range. Getting OSK shottie-sniped from quite a distance because someone got damage/range/glitch (now fixed)/specialist is not fun and if the game isn't fun, people will quit playing it. I dropped out of any lobby whenever someone was using the ext mag glitch and would have sold the game had it not been fixed/became more prevalent.
But, if you take that out...shotties are usable once damage/range are unlocked...and I will say it--OP once specialist bonus is unlocked. They will always get hate because they are supposed to give OSK and no chance at defending yourself but I enjoy playing with them when they are OSK in close range. Getting OSK shottie-sniped from quite a distance because someone got damage/range/glitch (now fixed)/specialist is not fun and if the game isn't fun, people will quit playing it. I dropped out of any lobby whenever someone was using the ext mag glitch and would have sold the game had it not been fixed/became more prevalent.
SPAS-12 Pre-patch had these stats: -25-5 x12 -Damage gives it a 1.4x multiplier, giving it 420-84. -With range equipped, it shots out to 875 inches, which is equal to 22.225 meters.
This means it was IMPOSSIBLE to die to a SPAS-12 in one hit at its absolute maximum range, provided the player was a maximum health.
Only the Striker was arguably OP with the Ex-mags pellet bonus, try again.
Besides, fun is subjective. I hate people who use no skill full auto weapons, and I applauded those who use Shotguns, because it gets old getting hipsprayed after a while
The PP90M1 with Rapid Fire is still better than any shotgun.
Sad, but true. I really hope Treyarch learns from IW and makes shotties usable.
Though, I have found a good trick to at least give the the shotties a little more consistent. It's widely-known, too. I just tap the left trigger a little to slow my sensitivity. It seems to help a lot. It also keeps the Steady Aim hip bonus, contrary to popular belief.
All you shotgun whiners still annoy me. Look, the Striker was just a bad idea and it probably ruined any chance at decent shotties. But, if you take that out...shotties are usable once damage/range are unlocked...and I will say it--OP once specialist bonus is unlocked. They will always get hate because they are supposed to give OSK and no chance at defending yourself but I enjoy playing with them when they are OSK in close range. Getting OSK shottie-sniped from quite a distance because someone got damage/range/glitch (now fixed)/specialist is not fun and if the game isn't fun, people will quit playing it. I dropped out of any lobby whenever someone was using the ext mag glitch and would have sold the game had it not been fixed/became more prevalent.
The SPAS-12 was just that scary with the EM glitch?
Re: Shotgun will not be buffed a second time! « Reply #48 on May 3, 2012, 11:20am »
I think it's the community that's holding shotguns back. I still get tons of hate from other players while I'm trying to level a non-damage/range SPAS in FFA. Ironically, the only person more frustrated with the shotguns in those games was the one using it. The unleveled SPAS was practically Foxtrotting useless until I unlocked Steady Aim... and even then I still had games in the top 3 where my score was actually negative. Ugh. Makes me want to play MW2.
How much do we fave to Foxtrotting complain and whine and provide proof that Shotguns are horrible before they decide to buff them? I feel bad for Brick, he tries so hard, gets plenty of support for a shotgun buff, and then ONE Foxtrotting what what shows up and says shotguns are OP.
I know, right? Me, Brick, and others really had Ghandi thinking about Shotguns. Then one one idiot named oCool0 comes in and says the Model can kill across the map in one hit consistently. Whats really sad is that Ghandi agreed with him, despite not one piece of evidence of the Model ever doing that.
that whole post and reply by ghandi was just hilarious and also sad at the same time. Some idiot comes in and says the model can snipe all the way across the map, that the model he has in real life isn't as strong as the one in this game (wtf is all i can say), and asked if the dev team was aware that the shotguns could kill in one shot. And what does ghandi say? "It's good to hear a counter argument." He considered that a counter argument to endless videos of bs hitmarkers on people standing still, actual reasoning using the weapon stats, and analysis of hundreds of player's performance with pump actions compared to other weapons
People are blatantly ignoring the reasoning both insinuated and directly communicated. I assume it is simply because it is not what they want to hear. kirbyderby summed it up perfectly - people hate being killed by shotguns. Inconsistency in shotguns ensures their usage remains relatively low and players do not get frustrated.
Re: Shotgun will not be buffed a second time! « Reply #54 on May 3, 2012, 6:32pm »
If they could get the shotties right, I'd play them. Funny thing is, last year's MoH game got them right. They were a OSK in a reasonable distance and you could upgrade from the buck shot to slugs. With a slug, you could hit someone at medium range but you'd have to fire a few times to kill.
But, like I said, the community is just against them because any OSK is OP to them. It's like they are stupid-bad but if you get specialist with range & damage, then they are stupid good and that latter portion of it is why the devs don't want to touch them anymore.
Personally, I'd like to see a real working shottie instead of quick scoping...and using a T95 just feels like cheating. Felt like throwing that out there.
Re: Shotgun will not be buffed a second time! « Reply #55 on May 4, 2012, 1:04am »
Bad proficiency implementation ruined MW3 shotguns. Damage was a horrible idea, and IW balance testing with the EM glitch and not realising it certainly didn't help. Did I mention the Damage proficiency was a really terrible Foxtrotting idea?
Bad proficiency implementation ruined MW3 shotguns. Damage was a horrible idea, and IW balance testing with the EM glitch and not realising it certainly didn't help. Did I mention the Damage proficiency was a really terrible Foxtrotting idea?
Re: Shotgun will not be buffed a second time! « Reply #57 on May 4, 2012, 11:51am »
If Damage did not take slogging through 27 or 28 or whatever levels it is of garbage, it wouldn't be as bad I think. But yeah it shouldn't have even been a proficiency in the first place.
Having them as primaries is enough of a nerf, I don't know why people think they are so overpowered. They're not, they're niche weapons and you have to know how to use them.
Bad proficiency implementation ruined MW3 shotguns. Damage was a horrible idea, and IW balance testing with the EM glitch and not realising it certainly didn't help. Did I mention the Damage proficiency was a really terrible Foxtrotting idea?
I like the idea of a late unlock damage proficiency that is basicly stopping power. It does keep the weapons from being a highly used weapon class. I am fine with the number of shotgun users being small. I am not fine with the shotguns still being crap even after damage is unlocked.
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