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cmck
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #120 on Jul 3, 2012, 1:06pm »
An easy way to fix spelling errors is to make two of the same docs. One that can't be edited and one that we can edit out spelling mistakes. By keeping two docs you also make sure we don't change any numbers, but I'm under the assumption that that won't happen. Oh and that would allow us to sort them into lists of our choosing to display the data better as well? Good idea or redundant extra work?
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #121 on Jul 3, 2012, 1:06pm »

Jul 3, 2012, 1:04pm, banana wrote:
On the mp7 do you use a 25% increase for rapid fire?


Yes. I know there's a bit of controversy here as to what exactly happens to each gun when RF is slapped on, but it's just easier to assume a 1.25 multiplier for what I'm doing.
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probaddie
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #122 on Jul 3, 2012, 1:10pm »

Jul 3, 2012, 1:06pm, cmck wrote:
An easy way to fix spelling errors is to make two of the same docs. One that can't be edited and one that we can edit out spelling mistakes. By keeping two docs you also make sure we don't change any numbers, but I'm under the assumption that that won't happen. Oh and that would allow us to sort them into lists of our choosing to display the data better as well? Good idea or redundant extra work?


I think it'd be more work than simply fixing the error in my own weapon list I made on my computer. Once it's fixed here (and on the doc) its fixed forever.

As for rearranging the lists on your own: I thought there was nothing stopping anyone from copying the documents for themselves. Am I wrong?
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banana
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #123 on Jul 3, 2012, 1:29pm »
Mg36 kick+grip isnt red
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cmck
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #124 on Jul 3, 2012, 1:29pm »
^I have no idea. I just like to occasionally share the idle thoughts that pass through my head. And I would assume having to fix spelling errors is a tedious waste of time if they already understood what you meant the first time around.
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banana
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #125 on Jul 3, 2012, 1:30pm »

Jul 3, 2012, 1:29pm, cmck wrote:
^I have no idea. I just like to occasionally share the idle thoughts that pass through my head. And I would assume having to fix spelling errors is a tedious waste of time if they already understood what you meant the first time around.
Im guessing you meant probaddies post :P
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banana
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #126 on Jul 3, 2012, 1:38pm »
I was under the impression the Barret .50 cal and AS50 have the same recoil http://denkirson.proboards.com/index.cgi....lay&thread=4683
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #127 on Jul 3, 2012, 1:42pm »
I did mean probaddies post. My carat (?) is bad at pointing today.
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #128 on Jul 3, 2012, 1:48pm »

Jul 3, 2012, 1:29pm, banana wrote:
Mg36 kick+grip isnt red


Fixed.


Quote:
I was under the impression the Barret .50 cal and AS50 have the same recoil http://denkirson.proboards.com/index.cgi....lay&thread=4683


They do if they are fired at the same rate, which was part of the OP's question in that thread. But the Barret can be fired at up to 1200 RPM -- my charts assume a rate-of-fire of 625 RPM -- and the AS50 can only be fired at 200 RPM at most. That breaks the deadlock.
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #129 on Jul 3, 2012, 4:56pm »
Oh yeah nvm then
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #130 on Jul 10, 2012, 10:04am »
So, in light of what was discovered in the "How does GunKick work?" thread, my work here needs revising. In that thread, we discovered that two different accelerations are applied to the gun (ViewKick) during the gun's deflection and re-centering. This affects the trajectory of the gun and thus the probability density function I use to measure the recoil of each gun. So, the eight draft will account for the revision and will be up in the next couple of days.

Edit: Clarified that this applies to ViewKick.
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banana
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #131 on Jul 10, 2012, 12:43pm »
How about increasing the semi automatic rate of fire to 750
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #132 on Jul 10, 2012, 1:41pm »
You can't consistently shoot that fast. 750 RPM are 12.5 shots per second!
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #133 on Jul 10, 2012, 5:44pm »
well it's possible but takes a long time.
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #134 on Jul 10, 2012, 6:42pm »

Jul 10, 2012, 1:41pm, Marvel4 wrote:
You can't consistently shoot that fast. 750 RPM are 12.5 shots per second!
I know for a fact i can consistently shoot faster than the cm901 but I'm not sure about any other guns
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probaddie
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #135 on Jul 13, 2012, 10:33pm »

Jul 10, 2012, 6:42pm, banana wrote:

Jul 10, 2012, 1:41pm, Marvel4 wrote:
You can't consistently shoot that fast. 750 RPM are 12.5 shots per second!
I know for a fact i can consistently shoot faster than the cm901 but I'm not sure about any other guns


I've got my code ready to fire out the eight draft of my recoil chart, so expect that soon. It accounts for the two different accelerations applied to the gun during deflection and re-centering, and it will affect some rankings.

But does anyone know how to get in contact with Mark Rubin via e-mail? I know I could use twitter but asking for the GunKick data with a 140 character request seems like I'm asking on a whim.
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #136 on Jul 14, 2012, 3:09am »
I just know one thing: Contact them when they're online. Sending a message when they're off will quickly disappear among other hundreds of messages.
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probaddie
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #137 on Jul 14, 2012, 10:49pm »

Jul 14, 2012, 3:09am, mmacola wrote:
I just know one thing: Contact them when they're online. Sending a message when they're off will quickly disappear among other hundreds of messages.


Okay, I guess Twitter will have to do. I'll wait until Monday to give it a shot.

And here is the eighth draft:

Black Ops, Unbiased statistic: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?....dEXzZIcFE#gid=0
Black Ops, Vertically Biased Statistic: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?....Y2RTdUZFE#gid=0
MW3, Unbiased statistic: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?....VFdWdLd0E#gid=0
MW3, Vertically Biased statistic: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?....FCdXcxdnc#gid=0

What's New in Version 8:

  • This draft takes into account the different accelerations that are applied to the gun during deflection and re-centering (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZaq2vqzaoI&feature=plcp for evidence of this phenomenon). Because of this, all the guns now have a lower measurement, as the guns do not deflect as far as we had originally thought. The ranking of some guns have changed.
  • These measurements can no longer be compared with psijaka's recoil plots. This is because, as far as I can tell, his plots assume a constant acceleration whereas my charts account for the two different accelerations.

Interesting notes:

  • The King is dead; long live the King. The MW3 ACR manages to beat out the M4A1 in the unbiased chart this time around (not by much). So it apparently has high damage and the best recoil if you subscribe to the unbiased chart. So yeah.
  • lol CM901. Foxtrotting hopeless.
  • The MW3 LMG class is still as Foxtroted as ever. gosh darn golly gee whiz I want those GunKick numbers.
  • Looks like the biased statistic doesn't love the G36C as much this time around. That's a thing.
  • The Black Ops charts take into account the true upward vertical recoil number (adsViewKickPitchMax) of the M14. Marvel4 discovered that the minimum vertical kick is actually 40, not -40. The biased statistic still adores the M14 but the unbiased statistic kinda likes the FAL a bit more now by comparison.


I think the only thing to do now is to incorporate GunKick into the code. I can get the GunKick numbers for Black Ops and use those for testing. I know GunKick won't affect the BO results much, but there are a few cases where GunKick is significant so it'll provide a good test for the changes.

And as always, I like feedback.
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banana
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #138 on Jul 14, 2012, 10:57pm »
Where can you get the black ops gunkick numbers?
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #139 on Jul 14, 2012, 11:04pm »

Jul 14, 2012, 10:57pm, banana wrote:
Where can you get the black ops gunkick numbers?


I thought those gun files were unencrypted, so they'd be sitting somewhere in the /main folder. Right? (Goes off to check...)

Edit: Yep, found 'em. gosh darn golly gee whiz you scared me!
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #140 on Jul 14, 2012, 11:07pm »
main\iw_00.iwd\weapons\mp

Some values may be outdated, however.
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #141 on Jul 14, 2012, 11:08pm »

Jul 14, 2012, 11:07pm, Marvel4 wrote:
main\iw_00.iwd\weapons\mp

Some values may be outdated, however.


Really? Those files weren't changed when the game itself was updated (e.g. during the FAMAS nerf)?
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #142 on Jul 14, 2012, 11:22pm »
Those recoil charts make the Enfield seem like a top tier weapon: low recoil, fast ads time, and good damage/ fire rate. I'm definitely going to try it out a lot more ( with my trusty cz75 extended mags obviously ;) )
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #143 on Jul 14, 2012, 11:23pm »

Jul 14, 2012, 11:08pm, probaddie wrote:

Jul 14, 2012, 11:07pm, Marvel4 wrote:
main\iw_00.iwd\weapons\mp

Some values may be outdated, however.


Really? Those files weren't changed when the game itself was updated (e.g. during the FAMAS nerf)?

Unfortunately not. I'm currently testing some weapons to find more secrets like the multipliers on sniper rifles.
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #144 on Jul 15, 2012, 1:00am »

Jul 14, 2012, 11:23pm, Marvel4 wrote:

Jul 14, 2012, 11:08pm, probaddie wrote:


Really? Those files weren't changed when the game itself was updated (e.g. during the FAMAS nerf)?

Unfortunately not. I'm currently testing some weapons to find more secrets like the multipliers on sniper rifles.


Are you... really? What. The. Foxtrotting. Hell.

But where else does the game read the variables for each gun?!
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #145 on Jul 15, 2012, 1:08am »
I think they're in common_mp.ff.
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #146 on Jul 15, 2012, 1:18am »

Jul 14, 2012, 11:22pm, banana wrote:
Those recoil charts make the Enfield seem like a top tier weapon: low recoil, fast ads time, and good damage/ fire rate. I'm definitely going to try it out a lot more ( with my trusty cz75 extended mags obviously ;) )


It's always been a good weapon -- the fact that its recoil is identical with the Galil's is not news to anyone here -- but its always been outclassed by the Galil for the fact that its damage is 35-25 compared to the Galil's 40-30. The only thing the Enfield has over the Galil is its CenterSpeed with an Infrared Scope on (it maintains a 1500 CenterSpeed when equipped with it). So, if you love the IR Scope, use Enfield. Otherwise, keep the Galil.
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #147 on Jul 15, 2012, 1:21am »

Jul 15, 2012, 1:08am, Marvel4 wrote:
I think they're in common_mp.ff.


I think you're right. I think this is the telling line of garbled nonsense that validates your theory:


Quote:
\Gu.|g$`ȱE3mF08


Kidding :P. gosh darn golly gee whiz encryption...
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #148 on Jul 15, 2012, 1:43am »

Jul 15, 2012, 1:18am, probaddie wrote:
The only thing the Enfield has over the Galil is its CenterSpeed with an Infrared Scope on (it maintains a 1500 CenterSpeed when equipped with it).

The Enfield also has a faster ADS (0.2 seconds vs 0.25 seconds).
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Re: A "Formula" for Comparing Recoil Stats
« Reply #149 on Jul 15, 2012, 2:01am »

Jul 15, 2012, 1:43am, Marvel4 wrote:

Jul 15, 2012, 1:18am, probaddie wrote:
The only thing the Enfield has over the Galil is its CenterSpeed with an Infrared Scope on (it maintains a 1500 CenterSpeed when equipped with it).

The Enfield also has a faster ADS (0.2 seconds vs 0.25 seconds).


Oh, and that. Missed that somehow... :(
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