Nah, it's alright. If you miss, you're screwed anyway. And is a nice counter to dropshoters. They think they're safe on the floor, NOPE! C.T. Knife to da face.
You mean OP? Because with Tac Knife / Melee its balanced, considering there is a tradeoff. Without, players can panic smash buttons and get kills. I used to do it a lot when I was a noob.
I find it as much OP as quickscoping, except everybody can do it. If you turn a corner, there is an enemy waiting for you and you know you simply won't be able to defeat him, knife him. It's there as a last resort. Almost everyone who play only using a knife certainly will be easily dealt with. Anyway, use a shotgun Type 95.
You mean OP? Because with Tac Knife / Melee its balanced, considering there is a tradeoff. Without, players can panic smash buttons and get kills. I used to do it a lot when I was a noob.
Maybe it's just speaking from someone who runs tactical, and therefore can't track well while knifing, but even if you lunge, the knife frequently misses. It's unreliable in this game. With the proficiency/tac-knife, it'll be very consistent and powerful, but still not game breaking at all since mobility perks were nerfed to doo-doo.
The knife is fine the way it is. When you're on tactical you can't really knife well and if you run default you can't dropshot well. Its about equal. It depends on what you want to do.
That said I don't know what you're talking about when you say the knife is unreliable. As long as I run default I don't easily lose a knife fight. And thats not panic knifing either. When you play on 10 suddenly squeezing the controller is kind of bad when you're aim is liable to swing way off target.
What if the L118 was a OHKO is only the chest, head, and neck; not the stomach, but had SMG movement speed?
What if the dragunov or RSASS had an ADS speed of .25 seconds?
What if the M320 had 4 shots total?
What if Overkill simply made you move at the speed of your fastest weapon, even if picking weapons up? This gives a good reason to use SMGs on overkill classes, encourages shotguns more, and can be used as a pseudo-lightweight perk.
What if Extreme Conditioning let your reload while sprinting?
What if Recon made enemy UAVs show up on the minimap, easing their takeout?
What if the UMP was a flat 4 hit kill?
What if the MP5 fired at 650 RPM and was a 2-5 hit kill?
The MP5 and UMP are still pretty much clones, though. If you look at MW2, the only SMGs that were really similar were the Vector and Mini Uzi (With a simple trade off of recoil and slight RoF for swap times) while MW3 has a knack for making a lot of guns pretty gosh darn golly gee whiz similar.
Hey, note I said good smgs. The PM9 can continue to be a 3-5hk. From there, there would be a long range one (MP7 + less sway + longer aim assist), a big mag, average recoil one (P90 + bigger range) and fast, average recoil one (PP90M1 + bigger range, but smaller than the P90).
The MP5 is the #2 best up close, average at mid range, bad at long range. The PM9 is the #1 at close range, bad at mid and impossible to use at long. The UMP45 is the #3 best at close range, good at mid range and bad at long range.
What if the... ...RSASS had an ADS speed of .25 seconds?
Then I would stop using all other guns.
Two EMP grenadess would be a big improvement. I think the M320 should do more damage or larger radius vice more ammo. More radius, probably. Really, it sucks so hard I have little idea what the radius is.
What if the L118 was a OHKO is only the chest, head, and neck; not the stomach, but had SMG movement speed?
What if the maps were big enough that the L118A could play to its strength? It would be good at 5x the distance that is possible with these. Silencer + Vari-zoom FTW.
How so? The MSR is better than it. What strength does it have?
I have no idea, relative to MSR. I think I will see if I can find something. Subjectively, it feels better to me. As far as K/D, I have the same with both. Hard-scoping on TDM.
« Last Edit: Jul 10, 2012, 11:06pm by ElysMustache »
I haven't read this whole topic, so I dunno if something similar has been brought up, but what if to rebalance the SMGs we:
A) Slightly nerf the MP7. Maybe give it more recoil, similar to the G36's (straight up, but slightly random as to how hard it kicks).
B) Buff the UMP. Maybe make it what it should have been in MW2, 3-4 hit kill, slow RoF relative to the other SMGs, and maybe AR aim assist or some other small quirk like that. That would make it the best SMG for mid-long(ish) ranged firefights, but it wouldn't beat out the ARs at those ranges because it has a decent amount of recoil.
C) Buff the MP5. What if they made it the M60 of the SMG category? Reduce the RoF to something in the 600-650 range and make it a 2 shot kill at close range. Only have the two shot kill out to like 10 meters, and make it a 5 or 6 shot kill at range. That would make it the best SMG in very close firefights, but it would be poop at range.
D) Buff the PM-9. I don't even know how, just make it not... suck.
P90 doesn't need a six hit kill at range. Its not that powerful. PP90 and MP7 should be nerfed a bit, P90 should be kept the same, and the rest should be buffed in to be on the same level as the P90.
If there were no proficiencies, maybe it would be fine. But with RF [+ex mags] + kick, attachments, or range.. its a behemoth [albeit, worse than the MP7.. but not by much]
I just want the game to take some gosh darn golly gee whiz skill to get kills. I know that wont happen in a CoD:MW game though.
The MP7 should do 33-20 damage. 3HK with that kind of accuracy and ROF is absurd, and even with a 4HK minimum it would still be very versatile.
UMP should do 42-25 damage and have RoF of 666 rpm. It should be controllable and powerful. I think having AR penetration is a good enough quirk.
MP5 should be like its CoD4 counterpart. Just bring the recoil down a bit and bring out it's 3HK range. 42-20 damage, 800 rpm..
Changing the damage on the MP7 would barely effect it. It's range is so piss poor that it's almost never a 3 shot kill anyways. The reason the gun is so powerful is because of it's laser accuracy.
As for the UMP and MP5, if the UMP shot at 666 RPM even with a damage buff, it would be outclassed by everything but the PM-9 at every range. Especially if you made the MP5 a 3-5 shot kill at 800 RPM while lowering the recoil. Extending the 3 hit kill range would render the UMP's only current advantage worthless too. The MP5 and UMP need a huge boost to be competitive with the PP90 and MP7.
The MP7 should do 33-20 damage. 3HK with that kind of accuracy and ROF is absurd, and even with a 4HK minimum it would still be very versatile.
UMP should do 42-25 damage and have RoF of 666 rpm. It should be controllable and powerful. I think having AR penetration is a good enough quirk.
MP5 should be like its CoD4 counterpart. Just bring the recoil down a bit and bring out it's 3HK range. 42-20 damage, 800 rpm..
Changing the damage on the MP7 would barely effect it. It's range is so piss poor that it's almost never a 3 shot kill anyways. The reason the gun is so powerful is because of it's laser accuracy.
As for the UMP and MP5, if the UMP shot at 666 RPM even with a damage buff, it would be outclassed by everything but the PM-9 at every range. Especially if you made the MP5 a 3-5 shot kill at 800 RPM while lowering the recoil. Extending the 3 hit kill range would render the UMP's only current advantage worthless too. The MP5 and UMP need a huge boost to be competitive with the PP90 and MP7.
Forcing the MP7 to a 4HK is a considerable nerf in my opinion. I do agree that the MP7 now rarely is in 3HK range, but when it is, it's just about unbeatable unless you have a shotgun or a PP90. If we drop it 4HK, you're really taking away a lot of its close range effectiveness. Think about the Vector from MW2: 25-20 at 1000rpm with even less recoil and that was not considered overpowered in a field containing the ACR, M16, and 3HK UMP. Now we have even stronger weapons in MW3 where almost every Assault Rifle is 3HK up close.
My issue with giving the UMP any higher ROF or range is that it's starting to tread into AR territory. At the highest, we could go to the same ROF as the ACR, but after that, we're looking at a 3-4HK weapon with SCAR-L ROF and SMG mobility. We're starting to make the M4 obsolete. So I propose 714 rpm (.084 firetime) with reliable 3-4HK at ranges just underneath what the M4 is capable of.
I see the MP5 as basically being an MP7 with a close range 3HK but slightly higher recoil, lower ROF, and 10 less rounds per Mag. 90% ADS move speed would make this a better room clearing weapon as well.
The P90 is then your big ammo alternative. Not as accurate, powerful, or fast as the MP7, but 50 round mags are nothing to scoff at and you get the benefit of a 3HK (although it should not extend outward as far as the MP5s) saddled with 6HK at distance. Give it very fast raise/drop speed, make it the gun of choice if you like chucking grenades or switch to your secondary a lot.
PP90M1 and PM-9 would be similar. Both would be good for hipfire. PP90 would be slightly slower and more controllable but reload slow and deal 42-17. PM-9 would fire faster, reload faster, but have erratic recoil and do 35-20.
It's kinda hard when almost everyone has extracted their views already
Anyway, to all the people saying the MP5 and UMP need a buff, they don't, just Nerf the "Holy Trinity" to 4-5(4-6) shots to kill and increase P90 RoF.
Going along with that, what ruined the weapon balance originally is when IW said "Let's apply SP by default", this is what the weapons should've been like in damage (Range, RoF would have to be changed for correct balance though)
UMP with a minimum damage of 17 is useless. FAD is also useless with this damage. There is also no reason to not use a silencer on the ACR and LMGs (except the M60).
I understand this, this is just how I legitimately feel the weapons would have been balanced if SP were not applied by default, I fixed the silencers though
UMP with a minimum damage of 17 is useless. FAD is also useless with this damage. There is also no reason to not use a silencer on the ACR and LMGs (except the M60).
LMGs can use a grip, rapid fire, and speed prof. there's plenty of shit that doesn't need to involve a silencer.
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