Grips on lmgs are overrated(or: bipods underrated) « Thread Started on Dec 15, 2011, 5:24am »
I am used to the bipod mechanics, which I have are a bit awkward sometimes in rocky envoirements, but gosh darn golly gee whiz those things rock. I love the bipod so much that I've even dumped the foregrip alltogether.
Foregrips are so pointless. Sure, they reduce recoil (and by a much more significant margain than those on other weapons) but reducing recoil seems pointless to me when you can't hit anything at long range anyway thanks to base inaccuracy (0,6 for all belt-feds)
The only time I'd say a foregrip is usefull is when you smack a silencer on the LMGs, 'cause that apparently reduces the minimum aimed spread. But silencers also give their own disadvantages at range.
So, what do bipods give you?
-they seem to nullify (I can't tell for sure though, you guys probably can) the minimum spread. With the 12x scope the B2K LMGs give you, you can be a countersniper. -max spread is decreased ALOT. Just fire away and watch those suppresion assists roll in. Gives alot of points. -great burst accuracy (I think they buffed this in the last patch for all LMGs); 6 to 8 shot burst are pretty much on target at a range of 100m+.
You just turn from a close to med range "meh" fighter to an all-range powerhouse. There are some disadvantages though; you lose some maneuverability and you are an easy sniping target if you don't watch out.
But the bipod is pretty fast, so you can keep moving around, just know the enemies' place and go into bipod mode beforehand. As for snipers, if you know where they are,suppress the hell out of them and they aren't that much of a problem.
I'm now seeing the real strength and intended use of the support class, and I wonder why I hardly see anyone use the bipod. As soon as anyone unlocks the grip, it's all they use. But if you want a versatile weapon, I think you're better off just picking assault, because the LMGs are certainly not, even with grips.
Re: Grips on lmgs are overrated(or: bipods underra « Reply #1 on Dec 15, 2011, 5:39am »
Bipods reduce the Base spread to very low amounts. A multiplier of 0.05 and 0.12. Zoom spread gets an equally powerful reduction of 0.25x. Recoil is also reduced significantly. No matter the posture, zoomed or not, the maximum possible spread will be 0.84 with a bipod.
The LMG is made extremely accurate even when firing a full 200 rounds.
But even with all of that, I'll take the Foregrip. The Bipod deployment mechanics have screwed me over far too many times, and mobility is a far greater boon than anchoring yourself to the ground for some accuracy.
Re: Grips on lmgs are overrated(or: bipods underra « Reply #2 on Dec 15, 2011, 6:54am »
I never got the grip thing either. Seems with the grip you're mitigating its shortcomings whereas the bipod accentuates its strengths.
So yeah I agree with you, although I didn't realise it was a thing. I see guys moaning about gripped lmgs online, but guys moan about everything online. The chaps I play with all use the bipod, except one guy uses a gripped m27 sometimes. To us, that's the whole point. I'd take an assault rifle otherwise.
Bipods reduce the Base spread to very low amounts. A multiplier of 0.05 and 0.12. Zoom spread gets an equally powerful reduction of 0.25x. Recoil is also reduced significantly. No matter the posture, zoomed or not, the maximum possible spread will be 0.84 with a bipod.
The LMG is made extremely accurate even when firing a full 200 rounds.
But even with all of that, I'll take the Foregrip. The Bipod deployment mechanics have screwed me over far too many times, and mobility is a far greater boon than anchoring yourself to the ground for some accuracy.
Don't think my eagle eyes didn't catch that hidden text Den!
I happen to agree with Den here. Mouse and keyboard doesn't lend itself too well to the bipod. Oh would I love a toggle bipod keyboard key.
But in all ninjaness, I am not that good at the game, and when I play support, I just use C4 as the primary anyway
Re: Grips on lmgs are overrated(or: bipods underra « Reply #4 on Dec 15, 2011, 9:46am »
yeah, the bipod is very strong, i think you see so many gripped LMGs because for the bipod to be effective you have to think ahead and secure a good position instead of just run and gun. i also began as a grip user and switched to bipod, for all cases except the M27 IAR (and in theory the RPK if i ever used it), in which case i'd like to be more mobile and use a grip.
Re: Grips on lmgs are overrated(or: bipods underra « Reply #5 on Dec 15, 2011, 10:30am »
"Seems with the grip you're mitigating its shortcomings whereas the bipod accentuates its strengths" (was too far in post to quote, lol) you worded exactly what I meant in 1 line
I agree on the bit that the bipod mechanics can screw you over, especially on some uneven terrain like rocks. With a controller it seemed like if you pull the aiming trigger very fast you'll negate the bipod.. Too bad I'm stuck using a m&k for the time being
but about being mobile, I think I'm mobile enough even when using the bipod. It's just the few moments you're shooting.that'll slow you down but staying in one position for longer than a few seconds is a death wish in this game, so I make sure not to get too caught up with shooting.
Re: Grips on lmgs are overrated(or: bipods underra « Reply #6 on Dec 15, 2011, 12:48pm »
I'll never use a bipod outside of a competitive setting where I need to hold a position or avenue of approach down. Pubs typically aren't coordinated enough for me to need to play this way, and when I do play support (Not a whole lot) I'm still aggressive in nature. I still find weapons like the M249 decently accurate (with a silencer as you mentioned) as long as you have your tap firing in check.
Re: Grips on lmgs are overrated(or: bipods underra « Reply #7 on Dec 15, 2011, 6:29pm »
I almost always use the mag-fed LMGs (especially the QBB-95), and with them the grip is much more effective. With the belt-fed LMGs, the bipod becomes much more useful.
Re: Grips on lmgs are overrated(or: bipods underra « Reply #8 on Dec 15, 2011, 6:42pm »
Bipods will never get use from me until they get a dedicated button. Mapping it to ADS is the most stupid thing they could have come up with. Even ignoring that, you're still sacrificing accuracy whenever you're not tactical loitering, which if you're like me is the majority of the time.
Re: Grips on lmgs are overrated(or: bipods underra « Reply #9 on Dec 16, 2011, 5:33am »
So I just read that LMGs have varying base spread based on stance, being 0.6 standing, 0.4 crouched and 0.2 proned. This changes everything, because proning improves accuracy to such degree that long shots are actually possible. Didn't know this (but I kinda had a feeling there was no way it was 0.6 for all stances)
Still, bipod has the better spread and recoil numbers so I guess I'll switch some more between the two and see what's better for me
what's the point of using an LMG if not for holding a position with a bipod?
The F2K, AEK and FAMAS doo-doos on the LMGs in terms of dps on the run anyways.
DPS isn't always the most important thing, ammo capacity can be more important in some situations. but the main reasons i'll use a gripped M27 are:
- being able to push forward aggressively with a squad but dropping ammo instead of medpacks. often there are way too few ammo droppers. - being able to run a different specialization than ammo, because you can drop infinite ammo anyway (suppression+ is my preference here). of course ideally your squad is all running different squad specs with one of them being ammo, but this is rarely the case in pubs. - combination of AR type range/dps with the ability to actually damage armor with c4 (admittedly i rarely pull this off ;p)
what's the point of using an LMG if not for holding a position with a bipod?
The F2K, AEK and FAMAS doo-doos on the LMGs in terms of dps on the run anyways.
Yes, in a straight up fight the guns you mentioned most likely would.
As for holding down a position with a foregrip, I choose this method on maps with a high density of players in small confined spaces where I don't need the large recoil or spread decrease to take out multiple enemies (e.g. Metro, Grand Bazaar, Damavand Peak), yet still need mobility to respond to threats from other angles or save myself if they get m320 or smaw happy.
I typically play the class cautiously, hanging back and then moving up when I'm relatively sure I can get up somewhere decent without getting into any point blank CQC confrontations, otherwise I'll just have a squad mate go in and clear them out beforehand.
Re: Grips on lmgs are overrated(or: bipods underra « Reply #14 on Dec 16, 2011, 1:07pm »
The bipod seems like the ideal attachment for LMGs but having to be proned and stationary to use them is a real disadvantage. The areas where you're most effective (2 way battle lanes like Metro B locker room) also make you a really easy rocket/snipe kill.
Re: Grips on lmgs are overrated(or: bipods underra « Reply #15 on Dec 16, 2011, 2:56pm »
there are a lot of great non-prone bipod spots on bazaar (and other maps too, you just have to look for them!)
although i HATE the bug where you deploy the bipod on some object but somehow your view is like inside/behind the object (see: cars, those destructible... blocks... or stuff, not sure what they are but they're all over bazaar, at least you can shoot through those to clear your view)
The PKP has an aggressive niche with its low max spread, but they'll probably fix it at some point
The PKP is a monster. I've used it to great effect recently. Try grip+3.4RU sight+silencer. The first shot spread is so low. On PC, the recoil is easily controlled. I find that the most effective way to kill at med range is 2 burst, quick QUICK break, then another two burst. Eventually, the recoil gets really low, and you've adjusted your sight down, and there is still a manageable cone. I wish I had fraps to show the bros how utterly awesome this weapon is.
there are a lot of great non-prone bipod spots on bazaar (and other maps too, you just have to look for them!)
I know you don't have to be prone to use the bipod. I just think the bipod sucks since it leaves you immobilized. There's nothing easier to kill than a static target. Personally I've never had any trouble with any LMG bipod player. I just throw a grenade, shoot a rocket, or pick them off from an advantageous spot.
The PKP has an aggressive niche with its low max spread, but they'll probably fix it at some point
The PKP is a monster. I've used it to great effect recently. Try grip+3.4RU sight+silencer. The first shot spread is so low. On PC, the recoil is easily controlled. I find that the most effective way to kill at med range is 2 burst, quick QUICK break, then another two burst. Eventually, the recoil gets really low, and you've adjusted your sight down, and there is still a manageable cone. I wish I had fraps to show the bros how utterly awesome this weapon is.
I went for a setup that abused the max spread. Grip + IRNV/Holo + Extended. Find a nice area to patrol, stop and spray at anyone in your sights. Abusing the low max spread with spraying makes the recoil a non-issue, and it's still accurate enough to suppress and/or kill whole squads. Works great on infatry maps on conquest if you've pushed them back to one site or their deployment.
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