Joined: Dec 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 10,592 Location: California
Ghost pro a noob perk? « Thread Started on Dec 10, 2010, 6:05am »
I just played a game of demolition about an hour ago. My final score was 33 kills and 5 deaths. I was on top of the scoreboard on my team. After the match in the pregame lobby, i got called a noob by the entire enemy team (organized clan) for using ghost pro as my blue perk... which left me completely dumbfounded...
and then just now i saw a video on machinima respawn where the guy posting the video said "ghost needs to be nerfed"..
what is going on? how has ghost all of a sudden become a noob/overpowered perk?... uav jammer and cold blooded were never called noob perks so then why ghost pro? it doesnt even protect you againsts black birds, dogs and motion sensors..
Re: Ghost pro a noob perk? « Reply #1 on Dec 10, 2010, 6:10am »
Cold Blooded wasn't called OP because there was Stopping Power. And you can shoot down the jammers.
I don't think it's overpowered. But Scavenger might be a little underpowered compared to the other Blue perks, since there is Dual Mags and stuff. Actually, strike that - you can grenade spam and since Frag Grenades are so good in this game, I take back that statement.
Joined: Dec 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 10,592 Location: California
Re: Ghost pro a noob perk? « Reply #2 on Dec 10, 2010, 6:20am »
So if stopping power didnt exist pre black ops, Cold blooded/uav jammer would be overpowered?
edit: lol, i always thought that one of the reasons they made getting grenade kills one of the challenges to get scavenger pro was because they wanted to promote nade spamming.
So if stopping power didnt exist pre black ops, Cold blooded/uav jammer would be overpowered?
Um, SP doesn't exist, so therefore people find Ghost to be the most powerful choice. Like I said, I don't think it's overpowered. Blackbird still spots you, and it takes a while to get Ghost Pro. But even with Ghost Pro, I think it's balanced enough.
Joined: Nov 2010 Gender: Male Posts: 289 Location: UK
Re: Ghost pro a noob perk? « Reply #6 on Dec 10, 2010, 9:10am »
In the previous incarnation didn't you have to choose between SP and CB? I think it's just that so many people had SP as 'the norm' that CB wasn't quite as wide spread as Ghost now is. It's the only perk 1 for me.
Re: Ghost pro a noob perk? « Reply #9 on Dec 10, 2010, 9:49am »
Oh, I have never ran into any issues from other people using (with the exception of a few disappointing Attack Helicopters earned via 7 kill streaks in SnD). It's that I practically feel like I'm cheating when I use it sometimes.
But for gametypes outside of SnD it is more balanced due to the significant decrease in air support from MW2.
Re: Ghost pro a noob perk? « Reply #11 on Dec 10, 2010, 11:32am »
You know what's more annoying then getting killed by someone because your UAV couldn't find them?
Getting UAVed every gosh darn golly gee whized time you're trying to sneak up on someone. I'm going to use Ghost on every single one of my classes, deal with it.
Re: Ghost pro a noob perk? « Reply #12 on Dec 10, 2010, 11:36am »
The ghost perk is THE reason i just stick to barebones unless im going for contracts. I run low KS because im a very offensive rusher, UAV,CUAV,blackbird. I cant stand games when i get a UAV and only 1 or 2 red dots appear on the map.
I also struggle finding any other blue perk that comes close to the effectiveness of ghost, none are even close. Now i use LW on pretty much everything... Not that it matters seeing as i play barebones 90% of the time now.
You know what's more annoying then getting killed by someone because your UAV couldn't find them?
Getting UAVed every gosh darn golly gee whized time you're trying to sneak up on someone. I'm going to use Ghost on every single one of my classes, deal with it.
That's more a consequence of KS not stacking rather than the characteristics of Ghost. Like most folks stated already lack of SP makes Ghost the go-to Blue Perk. I'm all for tweaking Ghost so that immunity does not apply to Attack Helicopter, V. Missles, etc etc and Blackbird detection still apply. But then again, if there is no assistance against the Chopper Gunner/Gunship, I can see a lot of folks rage quitting that match.
Anyways, the way I run is with a single Ghost Kit (and I have a FJ one if that matters). Sometimes, I start a match with it, other times I'll rotate it in if UAVs are flying around. Having Ghost in all kits is a bit too much.
Edit: Also, I never actually agreed with the notion of taking away KS stacks. I was fine with MW2's take away from stacking after death, but I didn't think KS stacks were an issue in MW2.
Re: Ghost pro a noob perk? « Reply #15 on Dec 10, 2010, 12:20pm »
CoD 4 was balanced (and a great game) because of the tradeoff between
Stronger in duels (SP) <-> Invisible to radar (Uav jammer)
in BO you simply don't have that. Playing a stealth class no longer requires you to carefully pick your fights, because you no longer have a disadvantage against non-stealth classes in duels.
Re: Ghost pro a noob perk? « Reply #17 on Dec 10, 2010, 12:43pm »
Ghost isn't a noob perk, but it is really annoying when noobs use it. Does that make sense? I mean if someone's using ghost to flank, or stay out of air supports view, I don't mind. But if it's a game of FFA and everyone is using Ghost AND hiding in an obscure location, and the game ends at 400 points, yeah, that's pretty lame.
uav jammer and cold blooded were never called noob perks so then why ghost pro?
Actually, I remember one game in CoD4 (that I lost), I got a message from someone I had played against (this was on the X360) basically saying "Hey you played good out there even though you were running UAV jammer. But don't worry I use it too if my team is losing" [emphasis mine]
It seems being invisible to UAV may have been considered cheap longer than we know =p
I too get frustrated when I call in a UAV and few dots appear, but I just remind myself it doesn't mean they're invisible. In fact, I actually think ghost is weaker than its counter-part in MW2. In MW2, you were invisible to practically every killstreak -- the only thing that would detect you is an HBS, and if you ran Ninja that would be moot too.
In BO, there's motion sensors, less of a focus on killstreaks, and the Blackbird. If someone manages 8 (or 7 with hardline) kills without dying, blackbird completely cancels ghost out. At least LW still runs fast, Scav still gives you ammo, Flak still protects against explosions, and Hardline is still discounting killstreaks.
Re: Ghost pro a noob perk? « Reply #19 on Dec 10, 2010, 2:44pm »
That message does not imply that UAV jammer is cheap, rather that it's weak. He's saying, "hey you played good despite not having the super OP perk (stopping power)." And it does become a stronger perk if you're team is losing, as that means more UAVs will be up.
Re: Ghost pro a noob perk? « Reply #21 on Dec 10, 2010, 4:05pm »
I guess. That part is a little negative, but the general message really didn't come off as condescending to me.
It's actually a really weird message if you think about it... insulting someone (apparently) for using jammer, and then admitting to using it yourself...
Re: Ghost pro a noob perk? « Reply #22 on Dec 10, 2010, 4:07pm »
It's sort of mixed, he states you managed to hold your own in gun fights despite having UAV Jammer but then sort of looks down on UAV Jammer use with the 'don't worry' comment.
CoD 4 was balanced (and a great game) because of the tradeoff between
Stronger in duels (SP) <-> Invisible to radar (Uav jammer)
in BO you simply don't have that. Playing a stealth class no longer requires you to carefully pick your fights, because you no longer have a disadvantage against non-stealth classes in duels.
Scavenger and Flak Jacket certainly give an advantage in duels. Scavenger if you are smart with your nades and Flak Jacket for rushing past enemy claymores/eating their explosives.
That said, Ghost is certainly one of the best Tier 1 perks. Hardline and Lightweight could use a significant buff. Scavenger could use a small boost, and FJ is already competitive with Ghost.
Scavenger and Flak Jacket certainly give an advantage in duels. Scavenger if you are smart with your nades and Flak Jacket for rushing past enemy claymores/eating their explosives.
That said, Ghost is certainly one of the best Tier 1 perks. Hardline and Lightweight could use a significant buff. Scavenger could use a small boost, and FJ is already competitive with Ghost.
I don't see how FJ is competitive on duels. It's competitive on overall usefullness, sure, and I think both hardline and scavenger are too. But in terms of providing a significant advantage that would make ghost users unable to go head to head there simply isn't enough.
Maybe the old SP vs Jammer duel balance model shouldn't come back. But in that case they should have changed the whole radar - uav dynamic instead of keeping the old one.
I don't know exactly what I want, btw. It's just that right now, ghost feels out of place. It shouldn't be, imho, a small tradeoff standard go-to perk but something that instead forces you to change your playstyle.
So if stopping power didnt exist pre black ops, Cold blooded/uav jammer would be overpowered?
Um, SP doesn't exist, so therefore people find Ghost to be the most powerful choice. Like I said, I don't think it's overpowered. Blackbird still spots you, and it takes a while to get Ghost Pro. But even with Ghost Pro, I think it's balanced enough.
i said pre black ops.. im perfectly aware it no longer exists. lol
Scavenger and Flak Jacket certainly give an advantage in duels. Scavenger if you are smart with your nades and Flak Jacket for rushing past enemy claymores/eating their explosives.
That said, Ghost is certainly one of the best Tier 1 perks. Hardline and Lightweight could use a significant buff. Scavenger could use a small boost, and FJ is already competitive with Ghost.
I don't see how FJ is competitive on duels. It's competitive on overall usefullness, sure, and I think both hardline and scavenger are too. But in terms of providing a significant advantage that would make ghost users unable to go head to head there simply isn't enough.
Maybe the old SP vs Jammer duel balance model shouldn't come back. But in that case they should have changed the whole radar - uav dynamic instead of keeping the old one.
I don't know exactly what I want, btw. It's just that right now, ghost feels out of place. It shouldn't be, imho, a small tradeoff standard go-to perk but something that instead forces you to change your playstyle.
Maybe if Ghost was moved to Tier 2? Everything there is compared to Sleight of Hand.
Maybe if Ghost was moved to Tier 2? Everything there is compared to Sleight of Hand.
I have no idea why people think its a good idea. Would you really be willing to give people HL and Ghost? FJ and Ghost? BTW, I believe people that complain about Ghost are noobs because they don't know how to play without radar. Well not really, but I just want to get my point across.
I have no idea why people think its a good idea. Would you really be willing to give people HL and Ghost? FJ and Ghost? BTW, I believe people that complain about Ghost are noobs because they don't know how to play without radar. Well not really, but I just want to get my point across.
I'm not suggesting they just move Ghost to Tier 2 and be done with it, just food for thought for CoD8.
Also, yes, I'd rather they have FJ/Ghost than Ghost/SoH.
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