Re: What's your main beef with MW3? « Reply #30 on Apr 30, 2012, 2:30pm »
My 2 cents based on very limited playing with MW2 and lots of hours with MW3.
It seems clear to me that MW3 has one central design philosophy: "encourage" actions at much closer range. This has led to the following:
1) More tight corners; 2) More short line of sight; 3) Less verticality; 4) Less long line of sight (at least less that are "sustainable". The cat walk in Dome has good line of sight but unless your team can trap the opposition in the building, nobody can stay there long enough. So it is not "sustainable") 5) Powerful assassin perk; 6) Powerful suppressor attachment;
While this resulted in a lot of "beef" mentioned by bros above, does it achieve one positive result: less tactical loitering? In general I find it much more difficult to camp in MW3 than in MW2, at least the type of tactical loitering a below average player uses.
Re: What's your main beef with MW3? « Reply #31 on Apr 30, 2012, 3:12pm »
My favorite part about MW3 was how ALL guns where given built in SP (3-4HK ACR herp-a-derp, 98 DMG Snypers ect.) except for LMGee's and Shoguns. I mean who @ IW though giving the SPAS-12 pump action a base damage of 5 in the first place? Or a pump action that only shoots 6 pellets and needs 4 to kill?
My 2 cents based on very limited playing with MW2 and lots of hours with MW3.
It seems clear to me that MW3 has one central design philosophy: "encourage" actions at much closer range. This has led to the following:
1) More tight corners; 2) More short line of sight; 3) Less verticality; 4) Less long line of sight (at least less that are "sustainable". The cat walk in Dome has good line of sight but unless your team can trap the opposition in the building, nobody can stay there long enough. So it is not "sustainable") 5) Powerful assassin perk; 6) Powerful suppressor attachment;
Wanted to add some thoughts to that Witty. There was a long thread a while ago, that really broke down some of the above. Like just how much was MW3 ...'more vertical' for example. Just how much smaller are the MW3 maps? If you read the posts of a lot of people, you would think the differences are horrendously drastic. They aren't. I broke it down. For the most part, when talking size, verticality....MW3 isn't THAT much diffferent. People really are talking about relatively smaller changes. Like for example, map size. For the most part, we really are only talking about MW3 maybe having two more smaller sized maps.
Quote:
While this resulted in a lot of "beef" mentioned by bros above, does it achieve one positive result: less tactical loitering? In general I find it much more difficult to camp in MW3 than in MW2, at least the type of tactical loitering a below average player uses.
Good point. And is that such a bad thing? Makes you wonder. Most people posting online talk up a mean game about how they hate 'tactical loitering'...but when MW3 puts forth efforts to reduce it....people then turn around and complain about the maps.
Re: What's your main beef with MW3? « Reply #33 on Apr 30, 2012, 3:50pm »
Quote:
Good point. And is that such a bad thing? Makes you wonder. Most people posting online talk up a mean game about how they hate 'tactical loitering'...but when MW3 puts forth efforts to reduce it....people then turn around and complain about the maps.
I meant for it to be a good thing
Since MW3 is the only game that I played extensively, I can't state that MW3 achieved this goal. I am wondering what the COD veterans think: do you agree or disagree?
If MW3 did make it happen, a follow up question would be: would you rather have what MW3 provide (in terms of less campy) or a more campy game with your "main beef" addressed?
Re: What's your main beef with MW3? « Reply #34 on Apr 30, 2012, 3:55pm »
I don't find MW3 more or less campy than others. I think the maps provide the same action as far as long/short range engagements as MW1 and MW2, more or less. In each map you can snipe or run around with a shotgun and be successful. I never felt that way in Blops.
Play hours of Domination or Capture the Flag and get back to me.
How about 14 days of Domination? Would that be enough time for you? About 2,000 Domination game wins, with about 20 losses...do that....and then come back to you, tell you that I find very little to any difference in the Dom spawn situations between MW2/Blops and MW3? In fact, the two games work about equally as well in terms of spawn trapping, spawn points and repositioning. How would that be, in terms of getting back to you
The main problem that I find with the spawns in Domination is that you can kill someone defending a point and the game will spawn that person close enough to kill you before you can fully capture it even if the other team has all the points. That's just silly.
Capture the flag has what seems to be rotating team spawns, so you can just put a person at each of those points and get endless multi-kills as people spawn directly in front of them.
How about 14 days of Domination? Would that be enough time for you? About 2,000 Domination game wins, with about 20 losses...do that....and then come back to you, tell you that I find very little to any difference in the Dom spawn situations between MW2/Blops and MW3? In fact, the two games work about equally as well in terms of spawn trapping, spawn points and repositioning. How would that be, in terms of getting back to you
The main problem that I find with the spawns in Domination is that you can kill someone defending a point and the game will spawn that person close enough to kill you before you can fully capture it even if the other team has all the points. That's just silly.
Can't say I see that. Domination has very predictible spawns. One of the most predictable spawns in the game.
The main problem that I find with the spawns in Domination is that you can kill someone defending a point and the game will spawn that person close enough to kill you before you can fully capture it even if the other team has all the points. That's just silly.
Can't say I see that. Domination has very predictible spawns. One of the most predictable spawns in the game.
It's mostly a problem on the smaller maps; ie Dome, Hardhat, and very specifically Mission.
It factors a lot more in when you're playing Mercenary or solo with randoms who don't know what the crap they are doing lol.
Can't say I see that. Domination has very predictible spawns. One of the most predictable spawns in the game.
It's mostly a problem on the smaller maps; ie Dome, Hardhat, and very specifically Mission.
It factors a lot more in when you're playing Mercenary or solo with randoms who don't know what the crap they are doing lol.
Wait a sec....you can't say the 'game' (MW3) has unpredictable spawns, when right above, it's the PEOPLE who are causing the spawns to flip.
Take the small map of Hardhat. Hardhat has ridiculously predictible spawns. You control the middle pipe, and the two long areas just past A and B.....the other team always, literally 100%, ALWAYS spawns around the C flag area. Without fail. 100% of time, (setting aside stealth bombers, etc..). It is so predictible, I could fall asleep to it.
That all said...when a random/green guy....ruins the above situation, and goes running into their spawn zone, aaround their flag...OF COURSE that is going to flip the spawn. The game is not being unpredictable there, it is being 100% predictable. Run into spawn....spawn flips. Duh!!! In fact, when we play Dom, see a green guy/random go running in, we call it out. And almost 9 out of 10 times, we can catch the opponents in their new spawn location.
Joined: Mar 2012 Posts: 11,369 Location: Land of Canucks.
Re: What's your main beef with MW3? « Reply #40 on May 1, 2012, 9:11am »
Here I thought you were the kind to hate spawn trapping.
As for me, the fact that there's no dinosaurs in Modern Warfare 3 is a major heresy (though realistically, the game being a downgrade in several aspects compared to BO's system).
Re: What's your main beef with MW3? « Reply #41 on May 1, 2012, 9:36am »
I thought of a rare one. Why does BO objective indicators disappear when you aim at them, but MW3's don't. They couldn't have just added that in? No one really brings this up, but it's Foxtrotting annoying when you think about it.
Re: What's your main beef with MW3? « Reply #43 on May 2, 2012, 7:24am »
This isn't a beef, per se, but MW3 has by far the largest population of corner campers, use mind bulletsers, and statwhores than any other Call of Duty game (not counting CoD4 which I don't play). This isn't a function of the game itself so much as it is just the kind of player any new CoD game attracts, and my personal feeling is that the fact that most of the "Touch Football" CoD players are currently playing MW3 is the number one factor in exacerbating the game's latent issues. While I strongly dislike a number of the changes MW3 made to the CoD formula, the more I've come to realize the truth in the saying "hate the player, not the game."
That said, my "main beefs" with MW3 include map design (which encompasses poor spawnpoint placement) and latency-related issues stemming from lag comp and hit-or-miss matchmaking. The map design overall leaves a great deal to be desired, and whatever tweaks they've made to the networking have certainly created more issues for me. (While I will say some people overblow the effects of lag comp to such an extent that you'd think having a worse connection represents some sort of advantage, I can't deny that after upgrading my Internet connection the game became much more "difficult.")
This is the only Call of Duty where killcams within killcams are a somewhat regular occurrence (can't remember the last time I saw that in MW2 or Black Ops) outside of Dom and where some matches I lose 80-90% of head-on gunfights with each successive killcam diverging from my experience by a larger degree than I've seen in past titles.
My two cents.
As for tactical loitering, while I'm sure the intention of the devs was to mostly to discourage it, many of their design choices would seem to run counter to this presumed goal, from the overt advantages of stealthy playstyles to Portable Radars with large radii that the entire team can see to the sheer amount of clutter on many of the maps... not that it really matters since that kind of player is going to be prevalent in every new CoD game no matter what.
This is the only Call of Duty where killcams within killcams are a somewhat regular occurrence (can't remember the last time I saw that in MW2 or Black Ops).
This is the point I was trying to make about crappy spawns .
I thought of a rare one. Why does BO objective indicators disappear when you aim at them, but MW3's don't. They couldn't have just added that in? No one really brings this up, but it's Foxtrotting annoying when you think about it.
This isn't a beef, per se, but MW3 has by far the largest population of corner campers, use mind bulletsers, and statwhores than any other Call of Duty game (not counting CoD4 which I don't play). This isn't a function of the game itself so much as it is just the kind of player any new CoD game attracts, and my personal feeling is that the fact that most of the "Touch Football" CoD players are currently playing MW3 is the number one factor in exacerbating the game's latent issues. While I strongly dislike a number of the changes MW3 made to the CoD formula, the more I've come to realize the truth in the saying "hate the player, not the game."
I can't really say I see much of a difference in 'campers' from one game to the next. All the CoD games seem to have their own unique, fair share of campers.
That said, my "main beefs" with MW3 include map design (which encompasses poor spawnpoint placement) and latency-related issues stemming from lag comp and hit-or-miss matchmaking. The map design overall leaves a great deal to be desired, and whatever tweaks they've made to the networking have certainly created more issues for me. (While I will say some people overblow the effects of lag comp to such an extent that you'd think having a worse connection represents some sort of advantage, I can't deny that after upgrading my Internet connection the game became much more "difficult.")
This is the only Call of Duty where killcams within killcams are a somewhat regular occurrence (can't remember the last time I saw that in MW2 or Black Ops) outside of Dom and where some matches I lose 80-90% of head-on gunfights with each successive killcam diverging from my experience by a larger degree than I've seen in past titles.
My two cents.
As for tactical loitering, while I'm sure the intention of the devs was to mostly to discourage it, many of their design choices would seem to run counter to this presumed goal, from the overt advantages of stealthy playstyles to Portable Radars with large radii that the entire team can see to the sheer amount of clutter on many of the maps... not that it really matters since that kind of player is going to be prevalent in every new CoD game no matter what.[/quote]
Re: What's your main beef with MW3? « Reply #46 on May 2, 2012, 12:43pm »
I will admit I don't know necessarily how it all works, but it's something about the spawn system that really makes me angry. Most of you have said it before but in objective gameplay there seems to be a recurring theme of things I tend to rage about. These may not necessarily be true as proven by game code, but in my experience these never fail:
1. "Swarm" spawning - MW3 tends to encourage spawning up the butthole of another teammate if you all have died in close timing to each other. This make things infinitely hard for run n' gun type players such as myself to go on a streak because if you kill too many people closely together, chances are they are all going to spawn right behind you and destroy you. Which leads into my next point.
2. Spawn trapping seems easier - Somebody alluded it to it earlier, but this makes me also believe that there just aren't that many spawns since you can get everybody to come from the same 1 or 2 spawns that are sitting right next to each other. On some levels, this is REALLY bad, and it gives players very little chance to escape. A or B spawn trap on Dome, C trap on Arkaden, B trap on Resistance, A or C trap on Bootleg are to name a few. Hands down the worst is A trap on Mission. Where run n gunning may not work, if you have 3 organized guys that can set up shop and camp some spots, then no matter how skilled the other team is they have no option but to die constantly.
3. The game chose spawns too close to captured flags - My personal philosophy is that if you fail at defending a flag then you should be penalized for it with a spawn far away from said capped flag, but as it stands right now this just isn't the case in MW3. There have been times where I've had to kill 4 and 5 enemies when capturing a flag by myself. Normally I have no problem with this, but when 3 of those 5 enemies IS THE SAME PERSON then I think the game makes it too easy to defend flags since it nets you a spawn that is a half second away from the flag being captured, or gives a very easy throwing window to nade the spot from where you spawn. Mission, Hardhat, Underground, Interchange, Fallen, Lockdown, Carbon, Downturn, are all offenders of this.
To be fair, in TDM and KC I haven't noticed nearly as much spawn shenanigans as I have in Dom/CTF/Dem.
It doesn't matter how perfect the game is. In fact, you could take 100 players and trick them into playing a prototype, where everyone plays on a in-house, no lag machine...and 5% of the players will whine like douches their game is lagging...to explain their failure. Or the spawns suck. In fact, you could give everyone visually different guns, with the exact same stats....and 5% of the players will still complain about an opponents guns being 'overpowerd'. That is reality.
And how exactly do you know this? Are you just that cynical?
Re: What's your main beef with MW3? « Reply #48 on May 3, 2012, 12:58am »
-The maps -Assassin "Pro" (because you're such a PRO with this perk) -Type 95 -Atrocious spawns -Gimped theater system -Domination in Mercenary (I sincerely hope the mongoloid who decided to put Dom in Merc is homeless now) -Really, REALLY useless guns (namely MP5, PM9, M16A4, CM901, AK-47, THE SHOTGUNS (except for the Striker), and LMGs -Akimbo MPs -Soundwhoring, though a step up from Whack Ops is still shoddy -Panic knifing -Lag comp -Support pointstreaks
"Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned! Ask not for whom the bone bones, it bones for thee!" - Bender
Joined: Nov 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 10,538 Location: Mil-Town
Re: What's your main beef with MW3? « Reply #52 on May 3, 2012, 12:16pm »
Personally, I think there are four factors which cause MW3 to be perceived as a failure in comparison to its predecessor MW2.
The first factor, and the biggest in my opinion, is a combination of several things... (1) The addition of online stat tracking through the ELITE service, game recordings through the Theater (or the Vault), and the attempt to balance, or make match connections more fair, amongst the variety of connections through Lag Compensation within the game's netcode have all become major culprits in causing what seems like more typical hit-detection issues in comparison to MW2.
(2) Again, in my opinion, MW3's initial map design approach lead to simpler maps which heavily encourage more head-on encounters or situations where players are less capable of positioning themselves to get significant upper hands (minus the tactic of hard-core corner tactical loitering). Also, several of the initial maps had an exuberant amount of exploding vehicles scattered amongst their layouts, perhaps to semi make up for the toned down explosive weapons players have at their disposal. Now, the two most recent DLC maps I felt attempted to stray a bit from these initial design principals, in that players can climb up and over most objects in the game allowing for interesting and unsuspecting attack positions / angles and there seems like less exploding clutter scattered about on the maps.
(3) The addition of the Support Package has allowed lesser skilled players to assist teams to greater effect and it has encouraged more aggressive game-play tactics by the whole player base in general. The package significantly reduces the risk / reward penalty and semi-balances the leverage good players (or teams) would have had in MW2. In some ways it can dramatically alter the consistent capability player(s) or team(s) have in steam-rolling their opponents by disrupting dominate performances. This aspect can be viewed as a good and/or a bad thing for Call of Duty.
(4) MW3's perk diversity and decisions. Personally, for the most part I think MW3 has got its overall perk balance to a much better place then all the previous games by not introducing heavily annoying benefits in order to properly compensate for ideal perk balance. This is not to suggest that MW3 has a perfect perk balance or offering, but I think it's the best that any CoD game has offered thus far. Many people would disagree with this assessment though. Many miss the over-the-top advantages granted to players through the perks found in MW2. To be honest MW2 did have pretty decent perk balance too, but it achieved a significant portion of its balance by introducing perks such as OMA, which granted players an ability to lock down sections of maps with ever replenish-able explosives, especially explosives paired with Danger Close, which granted players another one of these highly annoying benefits. Danger Close could also be paired with the Scavenger perk to see it become nearly just as annoying to opposing players too, but at least it required players to move from a tactical loitering location in order to restock their extremely lethal explosives. The Commando perk, in my opinion, was/is the most annoying perk ever created and Last Stand has certainly always been another top candidate. Stopping Power was not all together annoying, but it became a near necessity for most weapons in order to compete with opposing players who were using it. Also as far as MW2's perk balance went, well... the three big RED perks caused Hardline and Lightweight to have little purpose beyond an occasional use in Touch Football games. The Scrambler perk proved to be another near useless perk except in rare instances in certain team games, but in general its ability to scramble opponent radars as a method to hide your location only managed to tip opposing players off that you were in the nearby vicinity. I'd argue that In MW3, pretty much ever perk serves some ideal purpose, with Assassin being the most useful (actually its usefulness is quite annoying and the only one that falls into the annoying category) and Overkill being the least useful, but all of them can be mixed and matched to pretty great effectiveness.
Overall, I pretty much agree with IW5000 when he said...
Quote:
...i've been reading message boards like these since MW1...every single Cod game that comes out, has the EXACT same whine-gripes from people. A new CoD game comes, you can take it to the bank, lead pipe stone cold lock, a certain pct of people will get on the boards and gripe about... (basically anything)
As for some legit points...
cmck had (1)...
Quote:
Why does BO objective indicators disappear when you aim at them, but MW3's don't.
(2) The fact that you can't cancel a Tactical Insert like you could in Black Ops.
(3) Clone weapons that are outclassed in every important statistical category (the L118A Sniper Rifle and the MP412 Revolver). What are their purposes in the game other than to be handicapped clone weapons? ...someone told me before that because they get unlocked earlier then their statistically superior clones that that is their purpose, but with Prestige tokens I find that argument a little less practical. Why not give it a slightly faster reload or swap time or... something to give it a minor worthwhile trade off in comparison to its clone.
Re: What's your main beef with MW3? « Reply #53 on May 3, 2012, 5:46pm »
Only thing wrong with this game are small tight maps and a very dull selection of competative perk combinations.
Also take out the Specialist package, it is just too strong, they made perks way too powerful in this one i feel like, maybe its just the Specialist package giving me that feeling, but compared to the other games (which had pretty poor perk selection in BLOPS) perks werent as defining as your weapon system. In this one, its kinda vice versa, maybe its because most of the weapons are generally the same in the large scope of things, but idk, perks man, they bother me in this one, kinda leaves the game bland and has 1 playstyle no matter wat.
Re: What's your main beef with MW3? « Reply #54 on May 3, 2012, 6:37pm »
I have come around to thinking the EMP is a little OP. Maybe make it 24 kills or something? 60 seconds of complete trumping every other killstreak plus killing the UAV and all electronics is pretty huge for what is really a trivial accomplishment--18 kills in a game.
Joined: Nov 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 1,642 Location: Europe
Re: What's your main beef with MW3? « Reply #55 on May 10, 2012, 5:47am »
most frustrating:
- Hackers (on PC), 30-50% of lobbies infected by them ... unplayable Ground War... - Weak handguns with idiotic recoil applied
less important:
- Not enough weapon/equipment stat data, on PC - Idiotic kiddy graphic of many emblems/titles - Lack of many possible challenges for weapons/equipment (example: where is: „Kill 1000 noobs with Bouncing Betty” Title/Emblem ?? „100 Multiple kills with Bouncing Betty” ??) - No prestige challenges for new killstreaks (Reaper, etc…) - Many idiotic cammos, useless, ugly, ulocked easily, apart from „Gold”, which is not gold. - Lack of Alex Roycevicz’s brilliance in map design. - It would be nice to have more than 10 custom classes, as killstreaks are class-dependent
Apart from that MW3 is amazing and I have a lot of fun:
+ Assassin countering all n00b detecting toys incl. Marksman is a brilliant idea - let's focus no gun-on-gun, not on the minimap or baby-monitor or nickname above his head. + Spawns are fine + Lag happens, so what? + Luckily there is no MOAB emblem/title, less idiots tactical loitering to get it. + n00btubing eliminated + new perks + proficiencies + shotguns, I love those nice 1HK with KSG, I began to love all the shotguns. + etc etc + ... ... + ...
Re: What's your main beef with MW3? « Reply #56 on May 11, 2012, 1:16am »
The fact that I need to use assassin because with support uav + motion sensor + heartbeat sensor there is always something trying to tell the enemy my position. Noobs wanna use em all the time, then I'm gonna use assassin all the time. Also the way a connection will completely switch during one map when ONE PERSON joins or leaves.
Re: What's your main beef with MW3? « Reply #58 on May 11, 2012, 12:23pm »
MW3 has the worst spawn system by far. 10%-20% of my deaths are from stupid spawns. Either I spawn alone and near the enemy team in team games, spawn inside a guy in FFA, have a guy I just killed spawn behind me, spawn beside a car that explodes right after I spawn, spawn in plain view of someone else, or spawn just around the corner from a guy, who kills me within 1 second when he rounds the corner behind me.
Sure every CoD had bad spawns before, but they were never this bad.
Joined: Nov 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 1,642 Location: Europe
Re: What's your main beef with MW3? « Reply #59 on May 11, 2012, 12:25pm »
@ Marvel4
serious.
1. I play DOM in 98 out of 100 games, spawns are fine, iw5000 confirms, sometimes, well, 1-5%, really funny or idiotic, but that adds more colour to the game!
2. Well, I started using shotguns in MW3 arr. 3 weeks ago or so, I prefer semi-auto / 3-round burst / sniper rifles, my aiming is effective, I used to kill in 1 hit or 1 burst or 1 double-tap since many years, full auto weapons are boring.
- KSG is really nice, I like that post-shot animation, usually 1HK, If hitmark = I missed. - USAS is nice too, but less amo and I hate frequent reloading. - Striker+Range devastating in my hands, I use it if they overuse FMG9 Akimbos. Ofc, I need to stay in close range, but no problems to be 30-10 on Dome or Seatown and in top 3 score with KSG. I have not tried other shotguns so far, less than 10 kills.
More range or damage and shotguns would be OP imo.
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