Joined: Dec 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 10,398 Location: Rotherham, UK
Give me Sight beyond Sight « Thread Started on May 23, 2012, 7:18am »
Apols for the Thundercats reference, but this is something I've been pondering for a while - why can't we have customisable iron sights?
We can choose to attach all sorts of sights for long range, short range and anything inbetween, we can add grenade launchers, shotguns and bigger magazines - but changing a small piece of metal on the top of the gun - ooh, you're going too far...
I'll be honest when I say that the irons on some of the guns I find horrendous which means I either ignore the gun full stop, or have to chuck an RDS or similar on there, meaning I give up other benefits. I appreciate this is MY limitation here, but surely if I can choose to put a different sight on it, I can choose a different set of irons?
The G36C is a great example, I really like the gun, but utterly detest the irons, which means it's an RDS + Kick, or RDS + Silencer if I want to use it. I'd actually like something like Silencer + EX Mags, but due to the horrible irons I can't do it.
We've seen all sorts of other custom options like emblems, dot shape etc, how hard would it be to have a base set of 20-30 iron sights, so you can choose the ones you like as you would the other options?
I'm guessing that things like the Scar's irons and similar would be very popular, but it just adds another level of customisation instead of forcing players to potentially dismiss a gun over some so 'small'.
Re: Give me Sight beyond Sight « Reply #1 on May 23, 2012, 8:41am »
While customization is cool (you'd probably like Black Light, which does feature twenty something irons), iron sights are both a distinctive part of each weapon and also how the close range optics are balanced versus the other available attachments. The latter was particularly true in previous games where close optics never provided a statistical advantage over the irons they replaced.
What should be done on IW/3arc's part is an attempt to maintain consistent quality of the irons across all weapons or at least all weapons in a class. You could balance guns to account for the quality of their irons, but this is so subjective I'd rather they not. (For reference, IW stated on the official forums that they do consider irons when balancing weapons in MW3, but I don't believe that for a second: these guys don't consider fire rate or damage when balancing weapons, let alone the irons.)
It is worth noting that irons are quite modular in real life and this is somewhat apparent in game: Black Ops featured Troy battle sights on virtually every weapon and MW3 uses the same on its ACR. Seeing as how said sights represent an improvement for most weapons, you could implement them as a low cost alternative to an RDS. This requires that sights have some cost associated with them other than the opportunity cost of forgoing an attachment. The ACOG and thermal are prominent examples of this.
Joined: Dec 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 1,283 Location: Pennsylvania, U.S.
Re: Give me Sight beyond Sight « Reply #3 on May 23, 2012, 12:09pm »
This is why I want attachment and perk "points".
Give a weapon a certain amount of points for attachments and give different attachments different points. For example, a normal gun could have 4 possible points, and "better irons" could be one point, and silencer could be 3. Red dot would be 2 points, so unless you had "attachments" proficiency (could double max to 8) you can't use both silencer and red dot. It would give "lesser" attachments an efficiency advantage & could create a more dynamic customization system.
Re: Give me Sight beyond Sight « Reply #4 on May 23, 2012, 12:27pm »
Bring back 3A's dollar system again. Then allow people to use their CoD earnings to just buy stuff as you play the game. Just make another iron attachment something you can buy, right there with the RD, hybrids, hammer, and countless other gadgets one can employ on their gun. And that includes buying full customization stuff too, like camo's, colors, emblems, ..and whatever else one can dream up. Each person's gun (and it's gadgets and look) should be as customizable as a car!!!
I would then keep IW's proficiency system in place too....so that the more you used a gun, achieved certain goals (kills, headshots, etc..)...the more profiency tweaks you can add to it's use. lIke it is now.
All that would be needed next...would be to make the goals a bit longer. Maybe it takes a full 20 hours of gameplay, like 5,000 kills to earn enough money to get the gun fully tricked out. (rather than say 1,000). Or give some specific challenges that can drop it to 4,000. When this hits...I would allow a special unique color something that shows it's tricked out...gold? That's been overdone...maybe like some black?
With 25 guns on the roster, one is talking like 100,000 kills then to equip out all the guns. Give people a reason to get them all...but then unlocked a few special guns.
Re: Give me Sight beyond Sight « Reply #5 on May 23, 2012, 12:54pm »
A camo for a fully tricked out gun? ..... I want multicolored strobe lights. That makes all the bullets explode like fireworks. Come find me, I'm not hiding!
.... Or platinum/black. Thats better than gold too.
But making a new iron an attachment choice defeats the point of not being forced to use an atttachment slot for a sight in the first place!
Right: it's the equivalent of having improved irons available for pistols when there's...any other attachment.
Here's what I would do: make it so that all sights are separate from all other attachments and occupy their own unique slot. This means that a sight may be used with any other attachment right off the bat (or with two attachments if using the appropriate perk/proficiency).
However, associate penalties with the nicer sights to encourage players to use more mundane sights.
Example scheme for ARs: Basic Irons: 275 ms Upgraded Irons: 300 ms RDS: 325 ms Holo: 350 ms Thermal: 375 ms ACOG: 400 ms
Re: Give me Sight beyond Sight « Reply #7 on May 23, 2012, 9:43pm »
Grinding for 5000 kills for a gun would be hellish in my opinion. I prefer mw3's leveling and gun xp deal. That way gun goals can give u a chunk of points. Correct me if im wrong but 3arch already inttoduced an enhamced iron sight for pistols... I think its safe to say they will consider the other gun classes too
The G36C is a great example, I really like the gun, but utterly detest the irons, which means it's an RDS + Kick, or RDS + Silencer if I want to use it. I'd actually like something like Silencer + EX Mags, but due to the horrible irons I can't do it.
Thoughts?
Adapt.
Do not complain.
I always use Silencer + EM on G36C, I find irons more than OK.
I always use Silencer + EM on G36C, I find irons more than OK.
+1 for completely missing the point.
It's not about whether or not Player A likes it, or Player B doesn't, it's simply about offering choice to improve variety and increase weapon usage for those guns that may be avoided due to things like the irons.
Of course we can simply take a hardline on this one, and tell people to adapt or it's tough luck, but do we really need to?
Almost every attachment is designed to improve the performance of the weapon in some way, with the only exception being certain iron sights which can be obstructive for some players and reduce performance, so why would it be a big issue to offer a bit of flexibility here?
If more people can enjoy the game this way, and it can potentially improve the level of competition in-game and the variety of weapons used, explain to me what the true downside is - outside of some players being smug about other players not liking certain irons they can do well with?
Re: Give me Sight beyond Sight « Reply #10 on May 24, 2012, 11:23am »
Ironsights are an intrinsic part of the gun, just like ROF and damage. I don't use the g36 irons, however that's something I have to consider when comparing it to the m4 or scar, both of which have better ironsights.
Ironsights are an intrinsic part of the gun, just like ROF and damage. I don't use the g36 irons, however that's something I have to consider when comparing it to the m4 or scar, both of which have better ironsights.
Exactly my point, surely a small piece of metal shouldn't be a major determining factor in whether or not to use a gun, yet it can make weapons close to unusable for some players, or godlike for others.
I love the M4, I just wish it had the Scar's irons
Re: Give me Sight beyond Sight « Reply #13 on May 24, 2012, 2:32pm »
Ironically, irons seem to be more important to balance, in the eyes of IW, than most any other factor, with guns with very bad irons (type 95) being given extremely good stats, and ones with very good irons (FAD) often being slightly UP, or worse. However this all falls apart with guns like the PM-9, which has both bad irons, and bad stats almost everywhere else.
Joined: Dec 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 731 Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Re: Give me Sight beyond Sight « Reply #14 on May 24, 2012, 4:25pm »
Brink had Adjusted Iron Sights that you could equip that took away the ADS zoom, which was very useful for the shotguns in the game. They looked exactly the same as the default irons, just with no zoom.
Re: Give me Sight beyond Sight « Reply #16 on May 24, 2012, 8:48pm »
Soooo want customizable irons....heck how many guns would be instantly amazing with the rear sight removed or at least made more open? Another balancing part could be a flash hider...as sometimes the only reason I have a silencer or holo equipped is to track properly thru muzzle flash.
Re: Give me Sight beyond Sight « Reply #18 on May 27, 2012, 12:43am »
I know W@W had faux flash hiders...but I think real ones that only reduce or relocate muzzle flash would make irons more useful, and hence be another way to add to weapon balance. So you would still show up on the minimap when firing and not lose any damage over distance. Sorry if I took the topic off tangent.
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