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Post by ecomni on Dec 2, 2009 22:13:23 GMT -5
OMA <3 M203 One Man Army = Defensive (or "Campfensive") Once more with feeling. I haven't played around with other applications of OMA, but for tactical loitering noob-tube purposes, there is no way Scavenger is as good. Lay a claymore, shoot grenades, refresh, lay another claymore, shoot grenades, refresh, shoot grenades, refresh, put another claymore down because someone died, shoot grenades, refresh, etc. This isn't theory, this is what I use my OMA class for. And on objective games, my K/D ratio is almost always high (4:1 and over) when I do this on certain maps. Optionally, I'll spawn with an OMA class with a TacIn if I really like the spot, like on Rundown Domination with the building close to A that has a clear view of the bridge B. Then change to the noob-tube class. Lay a claymore, shoot grenades, refresh, etc. Die, lay another TacIn. Change back to noob-tube class and do it all over again. With Scavenger, this type of noob-tube tactical loitering is just not possible. I feel bad for doing this because it almost feels like an exploit. And changing class is very important if/when you need to shoot something down fast and your team may or may not be smart enough to do it.
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Post by dumdumpop on Dec 3, 2009 0:42:17 GMT -5
With OMA to upgrade, just start out the match then switch... You don't have to have OMA on to get kills with it as long as you had it on once that life it gets kills. I'm just interested if that also applies to other perks.
Believe me I tested this on accident. I'd get a gun challenge done and use OMA instead of dying and I'd switch to next gun challenge then accidently got OMAP with it not equipped when I got it.
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Post by chyros on Dec 3, 2009 3:41:03 GMT -5
Chyros, depends on the gun... The SCAR is very scarce on ammo. Even so, going through 120 rounds means you'd have to have a BIG killstreak just just your primary .
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Post by kcpwnsgman on Dec 5, 2009 7:06:14 GMT -5
OMA is good for changing play styles while maintaining your kill streaks, especially in objective game types. It's extremely well balanced considering you can't switch to a launcher class or an 1887 class and switch back.
I found myself last man standing in a HQ match, with no ammo, switched from my rush friendly ump/stab/tactical insertion class to an "alamo" heavy defensive class with a scar, grenade launcher, shotgun (change frequently, I actually have akimbo deagles on it now lol) claymore and scavenger pro, danger close pro and commando pro. I generally expect to die with this class, but not after taking out as many people as possible. I took out enough people to get a stealth bomber to bomb the alley that the building was on (including myself in the process) just as the HQ was deactivating then got a chopper gunner to defend the next HQ as I respawned.
OMA is great for SND too, although ultimately more useful when defending though. Good idea to have one or two alongside a dedicated kill streak killing class especially when you unlock more custom slots.
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Post by robesh on Dec 7, 2009 1:51:09 GMT -5
I recently got OMA, and I don't think it's really amazing.
It's cool, and I love having the initial rush class where I can put down my TacIn and then switch to my camp class (complete with claymore and scavenger or possibly OMA).
But generally, I like to run and gun (not so much rush anymore; in CoD4 I was more into straight up rushing, while in MW2 it's more about holding a position and then relocating.), therefor I like Scavenger much more than OMA.
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Den
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Post by Den on Dec 7, 2009 3:38:55 GMT -5
A bro and I acted a "Mortar Team" today.
For Derail, Domination, he took an observation point with eyes on most of the area to the east. I was way in the back, to the southwest, armed with: M4A1 + Skill Cannon OMA One Man Army Pro Danger Close Pro SitRep Pro (because SitRep is super duper)
It took about a minute, I fired tracers, he called adjustments. I was so far away and it took nearly ten seconds for the grenades to land that the enemy had no idea where I was bombing them from. There was nowhere they could safely hide - we had it perfect, so much so that I bound a key to shoot so I wouldn't disturb my mouse; I instead adjusted by moving to blast guys around that pillar. He defended the hilly area to the south, leading to me while the rest of the team covered the north along the river.
Tube, Tube, Rustle.
The enemy had no other option but to charge B, and we held back to let them do just that. They never took it.
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toysrme
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Post by toysrme on Dec 7, 2009 4:53:00 GMT -5
that is badass im doing that asap LoL!
In DOM its invalueable if you're a kill-streak guy too. It lets you swap to a class that has stinger's on it to kill air-support without having to die to do it (assuming you can deal with the time it takes to swap). getting an anti-air class going isn't a big deal when you die INCESSANTLY, but it DOES suck when you're streaking and "it must be done". OMAP+tube > bling+extended mags+tube+stinger BUT you should have enough ammo to finish a streak off before you go into the dangerous "weapon hunting mode". I know... I hate bling and scavanger kills it with a tube, but you can't have a tube-which is needed in DOM- AND extended mags, which makes a big difference in DOM where you find yourself trying to hoe down multiple targets in small amounts of time fairly often.
OMAP absoltuely dominates FFA where you CAN easily get somewhere & go on 10+ kill streaks AND have good use for being able to take 30 seconds out of an entire match to setup a tactical insert+dual claymores+C4 infront of claymores to insure an instakill.
since the trueskill games on XBL tend to ensure 2-4/12 players are headhunters, you can really exploit tacins+claymores. i wouldn't suggest wasting time w c4, BUT it makes all the difference in the world when you want to whore the top of favela (which will piss everyone off and generally your big kill streak will end from someone getting a LOF on you that you cant deal with quicily enough once everyone bumrushesh your ass)
I hate sniping, but OMAP DOES give me a way to enjoyably snipe on maps that offer good occasional sniping, yet i would rather be running around with an AR for 50%+ of my kills in that match.
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Post by chyros on Dec 7, 2009 6:41:09 GMT -5
A bro and I acted a "Mortar Team" today. For Derail, Domination, he took an observation point with eyes on most of the area to the east. I was way in the back, to the southwest, armed with: M4A1 + Skill Cannon OMA One Man Army Pro Danger Close Pro SitRep Pro (because SitRep is super duper) It took about a minute, I fired tracers, he called adjustments. I was so far away and it took nearly ten seconds for the grenades to land that the enemy had no idea where I was bombing them from. There was nowhere they could safely hide - we had it perfect, so much so that I bound a key to shoot so I wouldn't disturb my mouse; I instead adjusted by moving to blast guys around that pillar. He defended the hilly area to the south, leading to me while the rest of the team covered the north along the river. Tube, Tube, Rustle. The enemy had no other option but to charge B, and we held back to let them do just that. They never took it. Sounds like a game I had yesterday with a friend - he was trying out the Thumper on Wasteland (HQ pro) so just for randomness he fired a grenade straight up. When he started to laugh suddenly I asked what was up, and he told me he actually made a kill with it, despite not even aiming. I then told him to do it again and he fired two more rounds, the first one of which immediately managed to make a double kill xD .
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Den
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Post by Den on Dec 7, 2009 7:01:33 GMT -5
Oh, if I navigate the menu with the arrow keys and Enter (rather than the mouse), it has menu memory for the next time I use it. Upon opening the OMA menu again, my OMA class is already highlighted and all I need is to press enter. This minimizes downtime drastically, and it prevents mistakes of picking Riot Control or something.
The split second of putting away the primary and the three second Class Change is a gosh darn golly gee whiz good "reload time". For shooting more grenades.
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Post by ecomni on Dec 7, 2009 17:16:08 GMT -5
A bro and I acted a "Mortar Team" today. For Derail, Domination, he took an observation point with eyes on most of the area to the east. I was way in the back, to the southwest, armed with: M4A1 + Skill Cannon OMA One Man Army Pro Danger Close Pro SitRep Pro (because SitRep is super duper) It took about a minute, I fired tracers, he called adjustments. I was so far away and it took nearly ten seconds for the grenades to land that the enemy had no idea where I was bombing them from. There was nowhere they could safely hide - we had it perfect, so much so that I bound a key to shoot so I wouldn't disturb my mouse; I instead adjusted by moving to blast guys around that pillar. He defended the hilly area to the south, leading to me while the rest of the team covered the north along the river. Tube, Tube, Rustle. The enemy had no other option but to charge B, and we held back to let them do just that. They never took it. You and your bro are heroes. I wish I had a bro to adjust my "skill cannon mortars." Every once in a while on Afghan or Wasteland, I'll just shoot many grenades in the air at random. Not one kill yet.
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toysrme
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Post by toysrme on Dec 7, 2009 18:10:47 GMT -5
Oh, if I navigate the menu with the arrow keys and Enter (rather than the mouse), it has menu memory for the next time I use it. Upon opening the OMA menu again, my OMA class is already highlighted and all I need is to press enter. This minimizes downtime drastically, and it prevents mistakes of picking Riot Control or something. The split second of putting away the primary and the three second Class Change is a gosh darn golly gee whiz good "reload time". For shooting more grenades. The in-game menu system is also very responcive in term of how fast it comes up, moves around & goes away. You can macro it to be a very, very fast process. You can cut the entire process down to little more than 3 1/4 seconds. would like to add that OMAP doesn't require dedicated use. it's extremely effective with 1 well liked setup that begs for unlimited ammo. Personally, as big of a OMA whore as I am, I only typically have 1-3 classes using it at any given time. OMA isn't just for objectives. It rolls hardest in FFA, but it viable in any of the other gametypes.
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Post by ssog on Dec 7, 2009 18:50:48 GMT -5
Oh, if I navigate the menu with the arrow keys and Enter (rather than the mouse), it has menu memory for the next time I use it. Upon opening the OMA menu again, my OMA class is already highlighted and all I need is to press enter. This minimizes downtime drastically, and it prevents mistakes of picking Riot Control or something. The split second of putting away the primary and the three second Class Change is a gosh darn golly gee whiz good "reload time". For shooting more grenades. And it's faster than reloading on non-AUG LMGs.
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toysrme
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Post by toysrme on Dec 7, 2009 19:01:32 GMT -5
yup. only real penalty to using OMA is that you can't cancle it or knife someone. Which is a bearable downside to having unlimited ammo without seeking it & the ability to swap classes to suit your current need. even in chaos its not THAT impossible to find a quiet spot.
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Post by rocketshiptothemoo on Dec 12, 2009 21:59:29 GMT -5
One Man Army S&D Dual Class Setup
Class 1: Attacking Side / Defuser Weapon: P90 w/Silencer (Its nice to have a weapon with a big clip when you have no secondary weapon. I chose an smg because its good for taking care of bomb sites in close quarters and because they'll have nice synergy with your other OMA class which is usually something for Long Ranges.) Equipment: Semtax Special Grenades: Flash Grenades Perk 1: OMA Perk2: Lightweight (So you can run to the bombsight quickly if your far away) Perk3: Sitrep (People are MUCH more likely to use c4 and Claymores in S&D, or at least the relatively smart ones)
Class 2: Defending Side / Scout Weapon:Barret .50cal w/Heartbeat Sensor (I chose snipers because there nice to defend a point with. The Barret is decent with a Silencer, which would be useful in S&D, but I would suggest stopping power if u use a Silencer.) Equipment: Claymore Special Grenade: Stun Grenade Perk 1: OMA Perk2: Cold Blooded or Stopping Power Perk3: Steady Aim (None of the Green perks will really effect the aspect of how you play so just pick whatever one you want.)
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 13, 2009 9:13:35 GMT -5
OMA Not only lets you set a tactical insertion and two claymores for your tactical loitering spot, it lets you do that as many times as you like, so you can change tactical loitering spots at any time.
I rather like ScavPro for my SCAR, otherwise I tend to ignore it. SoHpro is pretty cool, but I consider it something of a luxury since it doesn't really help with closer fights. (Just pull both triggers at about the same time and often you'll kill your enemy before you are even sighted, especially with the FAM16.) I haven't been playing enough objective maps to really use Marathon much yet. Bling I really only use to do attachment challenges faster, though I did kinda like using a silencer and thermal scope on my FAMAS for a while. I'm not much good with the actual sniper weapons so I sniped with it instead. ;p
OMA sounds pretty useful to me. Can't wait to unlock it. I'll probably use it on all my classes for stretches and then edit it out of all my classes for other stretches of time. I tend to edit my classes quite a bit. ;p
It's not that big a price for me. I almost never use any secondaries except for launchers and with OMA I could always switch to CB+Launcher even if I can't switch back. On top of that, though I would really like the ability to switch between SP and CB without having to die for it, especially if I'm gunning with SP and then someone drops a sentry or calls in air.
I dunno, dependent on play style I guess. It sounds fun and useful to me, though I'm also not someone that tends to last all that long. (Though I seem to be doing better lately.)
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Post by spifnar on Dec 14, 2009 16:25:55 GMT -5
One of the things that really hinders OMA is the high quality of secondary weapons. Aside from dual terminators, MPs are essentially SMGs with low ammo, and a ~1 sec switch time insead of 3s. I don't even bother making a class with an SMG anymore
So to use OMA effectively you really need to commit several classes that are just equipment/grenade/perk variations, or are just gametype/map specific. More useful after several prestiges when you can afford niche classes.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 14, 2009 18:57:28 GMT -5
Okay I'm assuming the 6(3) seconds to switch classes is how long the change takes after you've told the game to change the class.
How fast can you go through the menu to make the selection? Is it just the normal class change menu only you don't have to die? If so that's pretty darn fast even on XBL.
I'm assuming that after you have made the class change you can still do basically whatever for that 6 or 3 seconds. So technically with an LMG you not only can reload faster with OMA, but you could actually activate your switch before your clip is empty and then fire it for the 3 seconds until you get the class switch, and then just keep firing or hit switch again and then keep firing, yes?
Seems like since the LMG's all take longer than 3 seconds to burn through a whole clip you could keep up a near steady stream of fire with only pauses to go through the class change menu and zero reload times. In fact it looks like the P90, M16, and FAMAS also take longer than 3 seconds to run dry, though I see little reason to attempt to spray them constantly.
I don't see a whole heck of a lot of reason to constantly spray an LMG either except just for giggles or to deny an area at the cost of totally giving away your position, that is except for anti air without a launcher. In which case skipping the reload could be very useful.
The LMG's can actually take out the choppers respectably quickly in just a few seconds, and in less than a clip of ammo without SP. Pave Lows take a bit longer, but still well short of the time they actually spend in map. Harriers have more health and take half damage from bullets so they take considerably longer, especially with regular reloading. I don't have any figure for using OMA instead of the reloads, though. I'd have to a bit better idea on exactly how that works and how fast it is, ect, but I know you could cut down the reload time significantly. Even with the reloads you can kill off a harrier in less than 30 seconds. Granted that's probably not really worth doing since you won't actually shorten it's time very much. But then if you can use OMA reloads you can probably nail it much faster.
Of course, against a Harrier you can probably do better just using a Skill Tube with a some practice. In which case mebbe take a TAR with a tube. The clip runs dry in about 2.4 seconds so you can hit OMA to reload then launch both your 'nades and go full auto while you wait for reload and it has a respectable pure DPS at long range, though not as high as LMG's.
M240, RPD, and RPD with Silencer actually have enough reserve ammo to kill a Harrier without SP, though it'll take two clips and if you're going to OMA reload anyway then reserve isn't that important.
Hmm actually I think I need to double check some math, but it looks like you could actually setup a non launcher AA class if you really wanted to and you'd only be a little slow at killing Harriers. If you don't mind not using a tube on the TAR or taking longer to kill with an LMG you could use a silencer too. Of course if you have the cover then an LMG with SP could really cut the kill time down to, but not taking CB on an AA class is quite a handicap, especially against a player controlled apache which will fire through walls at you.
Of course any non launcher AA class will not be able to take down an AC130. But then again neither will 2 stingers all on your own. You'll need your team for that. Also if you happen to like the Tar or LMG's with CB anyway then you haven't burned a slot on a dedicated non launcher AA class.
Anyway, just random hypothetical thoughts...
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Post by ssog on Dec 14, 2009 20:34:33 GMT -5
Okay I'm assuming the 6(3) seconds to switch classes is how long the change takes after you've told the game to change the class. How fast can you go through the menu to make the selection? Is it just the normal class change menu only you don't have to die? If so that's pretty darn fast even on XBL. I'm assuming that after you have made the class change you can still do basically whatever for that 6 or 3 seconds. So technically with an LMG you not only can reload faster with OMA, but you could actually activate your switch before your clip is empty and then fire it for the 3 seconds until you get the class switch, and then just keep firing or hit switch again and then keep firing, yes? Seems like since the LMG's all take longer than 3 seconds to burn through a whole clip you could keep up a near steady stream of fire with only pauses to go through the class change menu and zero reload times. In fact it looks like the P90, M16, and FAMAS also take longer than 3 seconds to run dry, though I see little reason to attempt to spray them constantly. I don't see a whole heck of a lot of reason to constantly spray an LMG either except just for giggles or to deny an area at the cost of totally giving away your position, that is except for anti air without a launcher. In which case skipping the reload could be very useful. The LMG's can actually take out the choppers respectably quickly in just a few seconds, and in less than a clip of ammo without SP. Pave Lows take a bit longer, but still well short of the time they actually spend in map. Harriers have more health and take half damage from bullets so they take considerably longer, especially with regular reloading. I don't have any figure for using OMA instead of the reloads, though. I'd have to a bit better idea on exactly how that works and how fast it is, ect, but I know you could cut down the reload time significantly. Even with the reloads you can kill off a harrier in less than 30 seconds. Granted that's probably not really worth doing since you won't actually shorten it's time very much. But then if you can use OMA reloads you can probably nail it much faster. Of course, against a Harrier you can probably do better just using a Skill Tube with a some practice. In which case mebbe take a TAR with a tube. The clip runs dry in about 2.4 seconds so you can hit OMA to reload then launch both your 'nades and go full auto while you wait for reload and it has a respectable pure DPS at long range, though not as high as LMG's. M240, RPD, and RPD with Silencer actually have enough reserve ammo to kill a Harrier without SP, though it'll take two clips and if you're going to OMA reload anyway then reserve isn't that important. Hmm actually I think I need to double check some math, but it looks like you could actually setup a non launcher AA class if you really wanted to and you'd only be a little slow at killing Harriers. If you don't mind not using a tube on the TAR or taking longer to kill with an LMG you could use a silencer too. Of course if you have the cover then an LMG with SP could really cut the kill time down to, but not taking CB on an AA class is quite a handicap, especially against a player controlled apache which will fire through walls at you. Of course any non launcher AA class will not be able to take down an AC130. But then again neither will 2 stingers all on your own. You'll need your team for that. Also if you happen to like the Tar or LMG's with CB anyway then you haven't burned a slot on a dedicated non launcher AA class. Anyway, just random hypothetical thoughts... You are left entirely without a weapon for the duration of the OMA switch, so all of that speculation is moot.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Dec 14, 2009 22:24:35 GMT -5
pwnt
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Post by cptmacmillan on Dec 15, 2009 0:32:13 GMT -5
It would take over 10 tubes, just fyi.
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Post by grizzleboy on Dec 15, 2009 0:53:16 GMT -5
My first post here First of all, I'd just like to say that many many people here are underestimating one man army a whole lot. That list that ssog typed out IS possible to do, because I've been using OMA all day and been getting excellent scores with it, especially in terms of KD ratio. 1.When I start off, I have my assault rifle with stopping power and steady aim ready to do some killing. 2.If the enemy team gets a UAV, I immediately switch to my coldblooded, ninja assault rifle/SMG class with silencer (significance of silencer is more apparant in hardcore matches) and sneak around looking for unsuspecting enemies. 3.Once the UAV is gone I "go loud" again with my original high powered assault class. 4.If see that there is a lot of action happening far away, or that a certain place is being dominated, I'll: a) take to the high ground, pull out my silenced sniper rifle and pick off a few people from afar. After I've done some damage, hop back down again, switch to my regular assault class and move on so that noone will be able to find me if they think I'm just camped out . b) Switch to an assault rifle with grenade launcher and danger close pro perk and shove some nooby goodness up their behinds, then switch back to my LMG with FMJ and empty a clip in their general direction to make sure the job is done. Then go back to my assault rifle with stopping power. It's definately not a constant action experience, and you'll be pulling away from the action a lot (which can actually help you live longer in the end), but if you have patience and can pull it off, it can work very well indeed. There is so much variety and so many combinations that OMA can be used for that I'm surprised its being dismissed so easily. I can understand if its simply not your thing, but just like everything else in the game, anything can be used to be dominant as long as you know the ins and outs of what you are using and have enough experience with it (e.g. most people hate the F2000/Vector, but many people can dominate with them).
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 15, 2009 6:37:50 GMT -5
AHHH! I was wondering how OMA worked! Okay, great. Now I know. So basically it's just a matter of menu time (negligible?) plus 6(3) seconds without a weapon, so any reload over 3 seconds is a potentially a good OMA reload. I can work with that, thanks.
Hehee! I was unsure exactly how this worked. I'm glad to know, as I'm about to get OMA on my next level!
On the toobs, I really had no idea how many it would take to keel a harrier as I never bother shooting aircraft with tubes. heh If I have 'em I don't save them for aircraft, and I'm none too good at hitting aircraft with them either. Stingers FTW.
This actually makes my AA without secondary speculation a bit more relevant since I don't have to redo a lot of math for the whole almost no reload time OMA thing if you got to keep your weapon. lol That would be a bit overpowered. hehe
It also occurs to me that if you just want to have a higher reserve for something like the SCAR you could always just drop your scar somewhere when you find a weapon lying around and OMA, then when you get your SCAR back you'll also pickup the other one on the ground for the ammo. You could always wait until you're nearly dry and OMA for a refill, but if you have a moment and a weapon lying on the ground anyway you could get it out of the way and not have to worry about it. That should let you quickly load up any primary to max ammo.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 15, 2009 6:50:18 GMT -5
I will say that I think I probably should have been using my secondaries some more. I'm not a huge fan of MP or shotguns or handguns, but the shotguns already have a 1HK range and the akimbo mags or deagles can 2hk 0ttk. On top of that with SP the PP2000, Raffi, and all pistols can 2hk 0ttk, which would greatly help my odds in CQC considering a lot of that winds up just flat out running into each other around corners and the quickest TTK wins. I'm arse with the knife so a weapon that can 0TTK would be nice. BTW... in that situation the burst AR's actually outperform all the other AR's for their faster TTK, so long as you don't miss. But if you're using an AR the noob toob will have an even faster TTK if you don't miss. ;p I don't know if the Masterkey can really 1HK outside of knife range, though so I'm not sure I'd want to try it for CQC.
Anyway I think I'll play with it some. I rather suspect I'll use OMA on nearly all my classes but then sometimes take it off pretty much everything but one or two classes. Hell even having it on only one class means that at least with that class you have unlimited ammo and can swap to something else if the need arises. That alone is worth it IMO. I definitely plan to swap Scavenger Pro with OMA on my Danger Close toob class. Hell you could use it to rain down Javelins on the map.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 15, 2009 10:19:57 GMT -5
Okay now... the RPD and the M240 are the only weapons that carry enough reserve ammo to take out a Harrier without SP, for one thing. But I'm more interested in how things work with OMA which means you don't have to worry about that so much. I used Toysrme's ROF and reload time data, although it's missing a few weapons. I just used 3 seconds as the refill/reload time using OMA. Damage specs pulled from Jlesaistu's thread. Clip sizes and such pulled from Jlayman920's table. I could have gotten damage and clip/reserve sizes from Den's dandy chart thing but didn't want to have to click through every weapon. I did take other info like the aircraft HP and such from Den's MW2 page. Nothing too surprising other than the UMP and TAR21 aren't terrible at shooting down helicopters without SP. They both do it in a bit over 7 seconds and with SP the UMP can even manage to drop a Pave Low in a bit over 9 seconds, but before running completely dry on reserve ammo although it only leaves you 2 bullets left. ;p Not terrible is not the same as good, though. Some of the sniper rifles are also not terrible, but you'll have to OMA replenish them more and I'm not sure if you can actually use their ROF without the kick making you miss even a gigantic hovering harrier unless you slow down a bit. Generally they will be too slow to be much use on Harriers or really even Pave Lows. But vs regular choppers if you can use the full ROF the semi auto snipers will take them out in just under twice as long as LMGs. But forget it unless you have OMA, you don't have the ammo. If they did have the ammo then the pure DPS could make them almost even with LMG's vs choppers, but doing 3 second OMAPro replenishes just takes too long. You really only have two decent options for Anti Air guns. Those are the M240 and RPD with Silencer. Yes the RPD without Silencer does perform better, the problem is that it doesn't have any virtues against aircraft that the M240 doesn't.* The RPD with a Silencer outperforms the M240 with one, however and it's the only silenced LMG that can take out a harrier with the reserve ammo, but then if you have OMAPro you'll be using that instead of the reloads anyway because it's quicker. Still though if you're going to be firing near continuously at a Harrier for a bit then a silencer isn't a bad thing to have. Granted there are inaccuracies in our data so take the hard numbers with a grain of salt, but I still think it's useful for comparison. *Actually come to think of it I think that extended mags multiplies clip size by 1.5, right? In that case neither M240 or RPD Silencer would benefit since they kill a Pave Low in 100 hits (don't miss) and a Harrier in 200. On the other hand the RPD without a Silencer will kill a Harrier in 150 rounds cutting 3 seconds off your kill time. So I'm adding it to the chart. TTK in seconds vs Aircraft using OMA w/o SP Weapon | Heli | Pave | Harrier | M240 | 3.27 | 6.61 | 16.22 | RPD Mags | 3.54 | 7.07 | 14.24 | RPD | 3.54 | 7.07 | 17.15 | RPD Silencer | 4.68 | 9.46 | 21.93 |
(Note I do not have ROF or reload times for the L86 or MG4 so they are not included.) I didn't add in ADS times because I figured your shooting at pretty big targets and you can just hit both triggers and fire the first couple of rounds hipfire without having to wait. I also did not add an initial 3 second OMA delay for you to swap to the class because I'm basically assuming you hear the warning and deal with it ASAP. I just wanted to know how fast you could actually kill them. Assuming you want a to try setting up an AA OMA CB class the kill times aren't terrible. Obviously a launcher would be faster for Harriers but just over 3 seconds to take out a regular chopper is no slouch compared to launchers and much faster than a Jav. Also you will only even need to reload the M240 or RPD Silencer for Harriers, but doing an OMAPro refill is faster by nearly 5 seconds for the M240 and nearly 6 seconds for the RPD. I obviously didn't do OMA nonPro numbers. Basically just add 3 seconds to the Harriers for the longer replenish (except on RPD Mags), it's still faster than reloading. AC130's are of course, immune.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 15, 2009 10:29:55 GMT -5
heh I don't think I'd unlock RPD Mags just to kill Harriers 2 seconds faster with it, but it does seem to be the champ so far. Still don't know about the other two LMGs though. They have potential.
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Post by ecomni on Dec 15, 2009 13:19:20 GMT -5
I don't see a whole heck of a lot of reason to constantly spray an LMG either except just for giggles or to deny an area at the cost of totally giving away your position, that is except for anti air without a launcher. Constantly spraying an LMG is reason enough for me. Once I get FMJ on my RPD and MG4, I'm gonna see how annoying I can be shooting 50,000 rounds per match into walls. As for using LMG for AA with OMA, in practice, I don't think it's worth it. It takes too long to shoot things down, especially without Stopping Power and especially with silencers. I used to have a silenced RPD on my AA class until I realized that it was pointless and dangerous shooting in the air for such a long period of time. If something needs to be shot down, I'll just switch to my AA class with Stingers. I use the AA class until I die and respawn again with the OMA. A lot easier than trying to use a OMA LMG class for AA.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 15, 2009 15:30:20 GMT -5
You can't constant spray, but still spraying with only 3 second pauses to replenish sounds nice. ;p Hell the TAR and UMP both take longer than 3 seconds to reload. In a way OMAPro means you don't need SoH. heh As for they AA, yeah against Harriers it is definitely sub optimal since they have 3,000 HP and take half damage from your guns. While a single stinger will take it out nicely. Against the regular choppers though you can drop them in about 3 and a half seconds without even reloading! Feels like it takes that long just to lock on. And against a Pave Low you take just about 7 seconds, but if you're using stingers it'll take two due to the flares. In other words Pave Low and Harrier have the same health but one has defense against rockets (flares) and one has defense against guns (armor for 1/2 bullet damage). The other helicopters also have a flare so 3 and a half seconds kill time is a clear win for LPGs which is great against Chopper Gunner. I think I'd give the win to LPGs vs Pave Low too, with its two flares. VS Harrier Stingers are a clear win. And AC130 can only be hit by launchers. So which is better depends upon which you more need to defend against. If you have a good, coordinated team, though. You could easily have them save their launchers for Harriers and AC130's but to help shoot the Helicopters rather than wasting rockets on flares. The damage they do will improve the TTK of your LMG which already kills them quickly. If two of you on the team use OMA then doubling up the LMG's could down everything but the Harrier and AC130 in record time and really piss the other team off when their Chopper Gunner apache drops out of the air in about 2 seconds. heh They might not even manage a kill with it if you're quick and the rest of the team got to cover. You can find places where you can shoot them but they won't hit you so you could still possibly use SP, though it would have to be a CB LMG class to be really effective against Chopper Gunner Apaches since the player controlled ones will keep shooting at you and simply penetrate your cover. Still though, it wouldn't necessarily be a dedicated AA class if you happen to like LMGs, though it's kinda hard to give up SP on one. Of course even against a player controlled chopper if they happen to target your teammates first instead of you then you might just take it out before it gets to you. If you use SP on an M240 you can take out a regular helicopter (both the AI and the Chopper Gunner ones) in 2.34 seconds!! There's no reload or anything. You just need 36 hits with SPPro. Even a Pave Low dies to it in 4.74 seconds. With that kind of kill time you don't necessarily need CB much less a silencer. Just a little luck and maybe a distraction and some teamwork. And in case your wondering M240 with SP drops a Harrier in 12.42 seconds. But if you really want a gun for harriers the RPD with Extended Mags and SP will drop a Harrier in 10.23. But still... Harriers got no flares, so it's just better to toss a rocket at it even if it's just an AT4 it'll knock off the majority of it's HP and you can finish it off with your gun if you need to. To sum up. It's actually fairly balanced. Aircraft | Best Weapon | Notes | Attack Helicopter (Hind or Cobra) | Guns | LMGs kill very fast. Flare means a wasted rocket | Chopper Gunner (AH-64 Apache) | Guns | Same as above, but more dangerous without CB. | Pave Low | Either | Either works. LMGs potentially quicker due to 2 flares. | Harrier | Launcher | Dies easy to a Stinger since it has no flares. Armor vs Bullets. | AC-130 | Launcher | Has 2 flares, but completely immune to bullets. |
The key to the Pave Low is just to have your whole team either shoot it with guns or fire missiles doing both means you just have a race to see whether the teammates with guns can kill it before the rest of the team can manage to fire 3 rockets or get a lucky hit with a Jav. Whichever strategy you use if the whole team does it the Pave Low will go down fast without any wasted effort. Not everyone needs an LMG to shoot at it either, but it helps to have at least one. In a game with strangers I'd probably recommend just using a launcher on Pave Lows since you're unlikely to get any coordination using guns, but there probably will be some rockets tossed at it. If you really want a chance of taking it out without any help then a Jav has a chance, but will still usually miss from the flares. With two stingers at least you take care of the flares and someone else will easily take it out with one more. Harriers are my favorite to shoot down. Can kill two of them easy with my two stingers, more with scavenger. mwahaha. I might try an LMG on the choppers now though. ;p
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Post by ssog on Dec 15, 2009 18:21:19 GMT -5
Nice theorycrafting, but in the real world, you'll kill aircraft *MUCH* faster with Cold Blooded than you will with Stopping Power. You know, since you skip that whole "repeatedly getting shot by said aircraft, dying, and then respawning" bit. Either way, in real-world scenarios, launchers are the best anti-aircraft option against all types of aircraft.
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Post by ecomni on Dec 15, 2009 19:40:00 GMT -5
Offtopic: Boo at "theorycrafting." As someone who plays other genres, I get annoyed when people say "theorycraft" when that term only applies to one genre (or game, honestly) For MW2, I propose the term "Theory Warfare" when mannon starts his machinations. Ontopic: I agree. Again, I constantly play LMG. There's no way any air support other than a UAV is gonna go down that really fast with only one person shooting at it. Bullets will miss, it will fly behind cover, you'll get found and die, etc. Even when shooting at Hinds with a gripped RPD, it takes far too long and too much exposure to shoot down.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 15, 2009 19:52:00 GMT -5
Actually I rather think I'd like to try an LMG with CB vs helicopters. Should be able to drop them almost as fast as it takes to get a lock for the first missile, and they carry flares. I also did numbers mainly for CB, but included some SP numbers mainly for if you happen to already be running around with SP and an LMG. If you don't have OMA then you might as well try to gun down that chopper before taking a hard class change, and given the kill time you might actually survive if you're lucky.
As for the complications of getting caught and buildings ect, yeah that is a worry. Personally I have most of those same problems with launchers, though.
Anyway this was all more of an elaborate thought+math experiment to see what you could possibly do without giving up OMA and although it certainly doesn't look better than using launchers I think it might do in a pinch vs helis, which isn't terrible. ;p
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