MW2 Useless Weapons « Thread Started on Dec 24, 2009, 12:23pm »
As far as I know, the M4 and the Intervention are both heavily outclassed by other weapons in their class. Do they have any unknown advantages? Are they really that much worse? What do you think of these guns?
To be clear, the ACR is apparently better than the M4, and the Barrett is apparently better than the Intervention.
Can you think of other UP weapons? I've heard that the Deagle isn't as good as the Magnum, but IDK about those two.
Breaking News: M16 has a disadvantage to the FAMAS. The FAMAS has a higher greater range than the M16.
And, the Deage has HUGE recoil compared to the magnum. AND a slower ROF Not cool IW
Re: MW2 Useless Weapons « Reply #1 on Dec 24, 2009, 12:51pm »
ACR vs M4 ACR has awesome accuracy. M4 has a slightly higher ROF.
Barret .50cal vs Intervention Statistically they are practically the same weapon even though the Barret's ROF is theoretically much higher the recoil makes it impossible to really use it except at close range. Barret has a sharp recoil kick, but recenters fast. Intervention sorta floats back by comparison. Barret's recoil can be more jolting, but is still quicker to line up next shot, but not by much. The recoil comes down to preference. Barret holds more ammo. Intervention reloads faster. Barret can spam in oh doo-doo moments, though you would be better off packing a Magnum or MP. ROF becomes sort of a mute point on both of these rifles anyway since they are outclassed by the WA2000 and M21 in that regard. These are the rifles you use if you go for 1HK's exclusively and want to gain the stomach as a 1HK region with SP. Otherwise throw them both in a ditch when you get the WA2000.
Magnum vs Deagle Magnum does +5 damage at long range. Deagle had bad recoil, and bad recoil animation in ADS. Both do 50 damage and kill in two hits. In akimbo the recoil is less of a problem. Deagle holds 1 more round. For just using vanilla the Mag seems like a clear winner, but in akimbo the Deagle can do as well and has that one more round in case you need it.
I don't think there's any weapon that doesn't have some saving grace. Of course in practice the M4's ROF is rarely going to be more useful than the ACR's accuracy and unlocking akimbo on a Deagle will take a while and may not be worth the effort if you're already comfy with your mags. The sniper rifles in particular come down to preference, though. If you really liked sniping in W@W you may prefer a bolt action.
PS. I'm not counting akimbo terminators, there were obviously more powerful than intended, hence the recent nerf.
I'm also not comparing the grenade launcher to the thumper or the masterkey to the shotguns. The tube I find much better than thumper and masterkey much inferior to the shotties, but it's not a fair comparisson in either case because you're comparing an attachment to secondary weapons, which by definition offers different configurations, making each useful in some regard.
Even the RDS vs Holo comes down to preference and your specific hardware. (There seems to be some evidence that the Holo reticle is difficult to see through on a TV, but on a monitor only the tiny dot in the middle is opaque, making it a very good sight compared to the RDS, even though the frame is a bit more obscuring. Aside from visuals they are functionally identical, however.)
Re: MW2 Useless Weapons « Reply #2 on Dec 24, 2009, 1:52pm »
Its mostly the illusion of choice and an attempt not to create another MP40. I'm guessing most people here are PC players, but on consoles the MP40 did 10 more damage and thus outclassed everything else.
I'd say M4 has better iron sights and as said a slightly higher ROF. Also I think it reloads a bit faster. Essentially they're identical though.
The intervention supposedly has better accuracy at extreme range, but I prefer it as its quieter. Using the Barret without a silencer makes a huge noise, the Int is a bit quieter. Also the reload is much faster, and you tend to pick your shots more.
Only just unlocked the Deagle so can't comment. 1 more round sounds good though, on Akimbo magnum I often end up one round short on the first gun and have 2 switch to the second (I fire one at a time to eliminate reload time).
Re: MW2 Useless Weapons « Reply #3 on Dec 24, 2009, 9:03pm »
MP40 was pretty gosh darn golly gee whiz good in W@W. The Thompson and Type 100 were practically the same gun, though I believe the Thompson actually had better penetration than even the MP40. Once I got it though, I preferred the PPSh-41 over my MP40 even though I had been using it for ages.
The M4 and ACR aren't terribly different, but neither are the SCAR-H and TAR-21. They are just different enough to give you two different versions of high and low damage weapons, though.
The FAMAS and M16 on the other hand seem neigh identical, even quite possibly having the same timing on the bursts. The testing seems to give us conflicting results on that so far.
Even if they are the same at least it's two different choices on iron sights and two chances to use a burst rifle for the challenges. ;p I love the FAM16. hehe
Joined: Dec 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 10,592 Location: California
Re: MW2 Useless Weapons « Reply #7 on Dec 25, 2009, 9:01pm »
I find it easier to get a second shot on a moving target with the intervention since the "float" period in the Intervention's recoil is controllable and it stays steady throughout the period.
Also the M4 might not be a laser like the ACR but it is ALMOST as accurate as the ACR. Never have i ever not been able to kill a target with the M4 because the recoil moved the gun off of the target. Taking that into consideration, the M4s faster ROF gives it the edge over the ACR in close to medium range.
I find it easier to get a second shot on a moving target with the intervention since the "float" period in the Intervention's recoil is controllable and it stays steady throughout the period.
Also the M4 might not be a laser like the ACR but it is ALMOST as accurate as the ACR. Never have i ever not been able to kill a target with the M4 because the recoil moved the gun off of the target. Taking that into consideration, the M4s faster ROF gives it the edge over the ACR in close to medium range.
The M4 might be almost as good, but it still isn't as good as the ACR.
I find it easier to get a second shot on a moving target with the intervention since the "float" period in the Intervention's recoil is controllable and it stays steady throughout the period.
Also the M4 might not be a laser like the ACR but it is ALMOST as accurate as the ACR. Never have i ever not been able to kill a target with the M4 because the recoil moved the gun off of the target. Taking that into consideration, the M4s faster ROF gives it the edge over the ACR in close to medium range.
The M4 might be almost as good, but it still isn't as good as the ACR.
And the ACR shoots faster anyway.
The various sources I've seen test the two say that either the ACR and M4 shoot at the same speed, or the M4 shoots faster. At the very least, there is no way that the ACR shoots faster than the M4.
Re: MW2 Useless Weapons « Reply #12 on Jan 11, 2010, 2:31pm »
Saying the M4 is useless is just not correct.
It has slightly more recoil than the ACR (holo sight might make up for that?). Mostly noticable with scopes Has less range before dropping damage. Reloads faster? Different ironsights (better IMO) Slightly faster RoF?
But all of these factors are so minimal that it might cost you one kill in 500. I just prestiged again this weekend, and the M4 is a great weapon. At no point did I think: "Wish I had an ACR over this M4"
I know this board is about nit-picking the small statistics, but at some point the differences get so small that you're better served going over something else to improve your play.
Re: MW2 Useless Weapons « Reply #13 on Jan 11, 2010, 3:25pm »
I think the M4 and ACR are some of the best ARs to go Hardlined and silenced, since they're so accurate. The only real AR competition in my eyes for my Hardline play style are the FAL and SCAR. In terms of getting your five shots off (since without Stopping Power and being silenced, you probably will be hitting for 20X5), the M4's recoil is a bit more noticeable, and I will generally miss a shot or two at mid/long range whereas I wouldn't with the ACR.
This is a silly comparison, but I liken these two weapons to the G36c and the M4 of CoD4. The M4, while especially accurate, had such idling that to sight someone at longer ranges could be challenging. Once you were on them, though, you probably killed them. The G36c was a bit more unstable in terms of recoil, but getting on someone was almost helped by the idling it provided. You might miss a shot or two when using the G36c whereas you may not have with the M4.
My point? In MW2, the M4 is a little easier to acquire your target, as if you miss or aren't a great shot, you'll still end up roughly around your mark, or more likely, anyway. With the ACR, you have to be spot on, which can be costly in a quick fire fight at semi-close range. I'd say the main difference is not just the RoF making the M4 better at mid-range, it's the slight recoil to aid in acquiring your target, thus I personally want the M4 on smaller maps, the ACR for larger maps.
Re: MW2 Useless Weapons « Reply #14 on Jan 22, 2010, 9:07pm »
F2000. It has too much recoil and does too little damage. If you target lies down you are screwed. You have to fire it by pulsing the trigger which negates its high rate of fire, which is the only reason to use it.
Re: MW2 Useless Weapons « Reply #15 on Jan 22, 2010, 10:09pm »
The M16 is more accurate than the Famas with a holo sight.
Through my testing, the ROF of the ACR and M4 are very similar. The M4 does seems slightly faster, but the ACRs greater accuracy AND longer range do seem to give it the overall advantage. That being said, the M4 is far from useless. It's still one of the easiest to use weapons in the game and still a very viable option.
"Even at normal Health, there's no other choice than the Vector" Den Kirson
Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,337
Re: MW2 Useless Weapons « Reply #16 on Jan 23, 2010, 4:35pm »
^^ you misunderstand the point of the F2k. it's point is to give a more mobile version of the saw+hipfire spam from 4. it's also hell in Touch Football for an accurate player.
^^ you misunderstand the point of the F2k. it's point is to give a more mobile version of the saw+hipfire spam from 4. it's also hell in Touch Football for an accurate player.
So its a SAW with more mobility, quadruple the recoil, damage dropoff at range, and no a 30 round mag?
Re: MW2 Useless Weapons « Reply #18 on Jan 23, 2010, 5:34pm »
As far as I can tell - and this is purely speculation - the TAR truly outclasses the F2000 in terms of statistics. Less recoil, higher damage, roughly similar fire rates, and each bullet counts for more, which means less ammo problems.
The only thing I can think of, aside from pure opinions, like preferring the sights or the recoil, is that up close in HC the F2000 performs better, though the OHKO from any distance on the TAR sort of off shoots it. Though, I do admit I don't know which reloads faster, or if the F2000 has any quirks (I want to believe it does - SOMETHING to give it an edge, like a Holo changing it to 35-20 or something).
"Even at normal Health, there's no other choice than the Vector" Den Kirson
Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,337
Re: MW2 Useless Weapons « Reply #19 on Jan 23, 2010, 5:49pm »
you're missing the point. what im telling you is that you dont understand the weapon nor it's use. saw+grip was the short range hipfire beast of COD4. while never a class i would choose, you must respect the combination in CQB VS a player that understands its sub AR hipfire spread & uses it as such. lotta damage output in a minimum of time
f2k is the new iteration of that old combination. when used as a medium range & below, with close range hipfire spray. it is a great weapon. trying to stand off with it like it's an AR will lead you to thinking it's a terrible weapon.
tar reloads faster 3.09/1.72 vs f2k 3.46/2.08 makes since... f2k plays more like a spray SMG & is more in the SMG reload range than the AR.
you're missing the point. what im telling you is that you dont understand the weapon nor it's use. saw+grip was the short range hipfire beast of COD4. while never a class i would choose, you must respect the combination in CQB VS a player that understands its sub AR hipfire spread & uses it as such. lotta damage output in a minimum of time
f2k is the new iteration of that old combination. when used as a medium range & below, with close range hipfire spray. it is a great weapon. trying to stand off with it like it's an AR will lead you to thinking it's a terrible weapon.
tar reloads faster 3.09/1.72 vs f2k 3.46/2.08 makes since... f2k plays more like a spray SMG & is more in the SMG reload range than the AR.
Seems to me that YOU are the one missing the point of the F2k. If you're looking for a hipfire beast, then the F2k is radically outclassed by the MP5 and the UMP (better TTK, tighter spread), the TAR (better TTK, more ammo efficient), the Vector (assuming no SP, it has better TTK and tighter spread), the G18 (better TTK, tighter spread, more ammo), the PP2k (better TTK, tighter spread), and each and every one of the shotguns. And this is just counting the guns that are clearly, unequivocally, without any question and brooking no debate, better than the F2k. You could also make an argument that it gets outgunned by the Raffi, the FAM16, all of the semi-auto pistols (akimbo!), the P90 and Mini-Uzi (akimbo!) and even the freaking Masterkey. That's 6 primaries, 14 secondaries, and a freaking ATTACHMENT that are all more powerful weapons from the hip than the F2k. Even if you don't care about power and are looking strictly for spammability for some bizarre reason, the Vector has a higher RoF *AND* a tighter spread *AND* a faster movement speed. And the Glock dresses the F2k up in a dress, bends it over its knee, and spanks it like a naughty stepchild.
The point of the SAW was that it had the least recoil of any primary in the entire game once you gripped it, paired with one of the highest RoFs, huge damage at range, tight hip-fire accuracy, and a 100 bullet clip. It was the bastard offspring of an ACR and a P90. At long range, it was super-accurate, spit out an obscene amount of lead, and dealt 30 damage a shot (as good as any AR in the game). In close, it had awesome hip-fire accuracy, spit out an obscene amount of lead, and had one of the fastest TTKs around. In Touch Football, it was a 1-shot kill at any range.
The F2k is sort of exactly like the SAW, except it loses its close-range superiority, thanks to the worse hip spread and the introduction of a dozen secondaries that can top it in close (some by a huge margin, like the akimbo glocks)... and it also loses its long-range superiority, thanks to the fact that it deals the least damage and has the most recoil of any gun in the entire freaking game. In other words, it's exactly like the SAW except for the fact that it's actually nothing like the SAW at all.
you're missing the point. what im telling you is that you dont understand the weapon nor it's use. saw+grip was the short range hipfire beast of COD4. while never a class i would choose, you must respect the combination in CQB VS a player that understands its sub AR hipfire spread & uses it as such. lotta damage output in a minimum of time
f2k is the new iteration of that old combination. when used as a medium range & below, with close range hipfire spray. it is a great weapon. trying to stand off with it like it's an AR will lead you to thinking it's a terrible weapon.
tar reloads faster 3.09/1.72 vs f2k 3.46/2.08 makes since... f2k plays more like a spray SMG & is more in the SMG reload range than the AR.
Seems to me that YOU are the one missing the point of the F2k. If you're looking for a hipfire beast, then the F2k is radically outclassed by the MP5 and the UMP (better TTK, tighter spread), the TAR (better TTK, more ammo efficient), the Vector (assuming no SP, it has better TTK and tighter spread), the G18 (better TTK, tighter spread, more ammo), the PP2k (better TTK, tighter spread), and each and every one of the shotguns. And this is just counting the guns that are clearly, unequivocally, without any question and brooking no debate, better than the F2k. You could also make an argument that it gets outgunned by the Raffi, the FAM16, all of the semi-auto pistols (akimbo!), the P90 and Mini-Uzi (akimbo!) and even the freaking Masterkey. That's 6 primaries, 14 secondaries, and a freaking ATTACHMENT that are all more powerful weapons from the hip than the F2k. Even if you don't care about power and are looking strictly for spammability for some bizarre reason, the Vector has a higher RoF *AND* a tighter spread *AND* a faster movement speed. And the Glock dresses the F2k up in a dress, bends it over its knee, and spanks it like a naughty stepchild.
The point of the SAW was that it had the least recoil of any primary in the entire game once you gripped it, paired with one of the highest RoFs, huge damage at range, tight hip-fire accuracy, and a 100 bullet clip. It was the bastard offspring of an ACR and a P90. At long range, it was super-accurate, spit out an obscene amount of lead, and dealt 30 damage a shot (as good as any AR in the game). In close, it had awesome hip-fire accuracy, spit out an obscene amount of lead, and had one of the fastest TTKs around. In Touch Football, it was a 1-shot kill at any range.
The F2k is sort of exactly like the SAW, except it loses its close-range superiority, thanks to the worse hip spread and the introduction of a dozen secondaries that can top it in close (some by a huge margin, like the akimbo glocks)... and it also loses its long-range superiority, thanks to the fact that it deals the least damage and has the most recoil of any gun in the entire freaking game. In other words, it's exactly like the SAW except for the fact that it's actually nothing like the SAW at all.
Re: MW2 Useless Weapons « Reply #22 on Jan 23, 2010, 11:52pm »
A few quick points: -M4: Honestly, the M4 and ACR aren't all that different. However, the M4 has slightly higher TTK than the ACR up close. It's now my #1 weapon. The extra damage and lower recoil of the ACR doesn't seem to matter as much as the M4's increased TTK in close range. The M4 is accurate enough that it will hit virtually anything the ACR can 99% of the time and more quickly up to a pretty decent range. Taking down targets quickly in close range matters much more for the obvious reason that you're in greater danger. When there are multiple enemies close by, you're better off with an M4 than an ACR. When you're picking one guy off in the distance, you're just as likely to kill him with an M4 as an ACR, but the ACR will do it a bit quicker and use less bullets. Doesn't seem like a good trade-off. -M16: The M16's reload time is lower than the FAMAS's, it gets a recoil reduction with Holo sight that makes it equally (if not more) deadly as the FAMAS (the FAMAS doesn't seem to get the same benefit from holo sights), and the M16's iron sights are easier to use. -INTERVENTION: And the Intervention's reload time is lower, scopes in quicker (don't care if others disagree on whether it scopes in quicker -- lots of people agree, perhaps it's a visual illusion), and because its recoil is lower, it's easier to track your target after firing once.
The huge preponderance of M4s, M16s, and Interventions should tell you something: There's a reason people use particular guns. It's because they work.
The only useless weapons: -Deagle -F2000 (too weak and inaccurate to be a good AR, to slow to be a good SMG) -Throwing knives -Frags
Possibly also the L86 LSW belongs on that list. I didn't include it because it has the highest TTK of any LMG, possibly of any weapon... If you're tactical loitering in close range, it could be amazing. If you fire single shots in between recoil recovery, it reminds me a lot of the BAR from the older COD games. A modded controller which is set to fire at a very low RPM might actually make the L86 LSW an incredible weapon.
« Last Edit: Jan 23, 2010, 11:57pm by individual »
saw+grip was the short range hipfire beast of COD4. while never a class i would choose, you must respect the combination in CQB VS a player that understands its sub AR hipfire spread & uses it as such. lotta damage output in a minimum of time
f2k is the new iteration of that old combination. when used as a medium range & below, with close range hipfire spray. it is a great weapon. trying to stand off with it like it's an AR will lead you to thinking it's a terrible weapon.
Funny, I always assumed the SMGs were the hip fire beasts of CoD4 ... unless you meant strictly HC, then I agree.
The F2000 may or may not do well as a hip fire weapon, but I don't think any of us feels it does it better than most weapons in core mode. The TTK is just plain lower than many other weapons, especially if you consider SP or Rapid Fire.
If you think the niche is in HC, hip firing, well, honestly, I'd prefer Akimbo pistols, or the UMP with RF.
The only useless weapons: -Deagle -F2000 (too weak and inaccurate to be a good AR, to slow to be a good SMG) -Throwing knives -Frags
Possibly also the L86 LSW belongs on that list. I didn't include it because it has the highest TTK of any LMG, possibly of any weapon... If you're tactical loitering in close range, it could be amazing. If you fire single shots in between recoil recovery, it reminds me a lot of the BAR from the older COD games. A modded controller which is set to fire at a very low RPM might actually make the L86 LSW an incredible weapon.
I'll have to disagree with you on the F2000 and Frag grenades.
I have had real great success with the F2000 with a Ghost set-up. Silencer, Scavenger+, CB+, and Ninja+. The F2000 has an insane TTK and if you stick to those areas of the map then you will dominate everything except for shotguns and akimbo Glocks.
Frag grenades I use because of the "cooking" ability. Nothing like cooking a grenade and having it explode right in a snipers face or over the head of someone crouched in cover.
Possibly also the L86 LSW belongs on that list. I didn't include it because it has the highest TTK of any LMG, possibly of any weapon... If you're tactical loitering in close range, it could be amazing.
I mostly use LMGs, and while I think the AUG and the RPD are better guns generally, the L86 has a definite advantage in closer-range combat. It's fire rate is about 100RPM higher than the RPD (IIRC), and it reloads a heck of a lot quicker, which really does come in handy. It's fine at long ranges too, but you are pretty much REQUIRED to use Stopping Power and a Grip with it for longish range combat. Without the SP and grip, landing 3 hits is just stinkin hard. Landing two (for SP) is easy, but I find that the third will almost always miss, and if I have to wait for the recoil to setting, they will have already moved on.
The huge preponderance of M4s, M16s, and Interventions should tell you something: There's a reason people use particular guns. It's because they work.
Actually, I was going to say that the reason people use particular guns is because they see a lot of montages on Youtube. People use the Intervention because they think it's the M40. They don't know why they used the M40 in the first place, they just know that's what the Youtube montagers used, so it must have been better. And now since the Intervention is bolt action like the M40, it must be better, too.
I think the M16 is the same deal. Realistically, it's more or less identical to the FAMAS (there's so little difference that there's no point in quibbling and calling one "better" or "worse"- I think you're better off just calling them "functionally identical"). However, since in CoD4 all you heard was how OP the M16 was, I think a lot of people gravitate toward it in MW2, too.
As for the M4... I think it's a combination of its popularity in MW1 as well as how early you get it. If you got the ACR and the M4 at the same level, I think more people would use the ACR. Since you get the M4 a good 40 levels before the ACR, I think people fall in love with it and get set in their ways. Plus, like I said, it was another really popular one from MW1. The AK is the same deal- it's not as good as the SCAR or the TAR (it would be if it didn't have the idle sway, but it does, so it isn't). Still, a lot of people use it because they know that the AK was good in MW1, and this AK feels just like that one, so this one must be just as good.
Quote:
The only useless weapons: -Deagle -F2000 (too weak and inaccurate to be a good AR, to slow to be a good SMG) -Throwing knives -Frags
Possibly also the L86 LSW belongs on that list. I didn't include it because it has the highest TTK of any LMG, possibly of any weapon... If you're tactical loitering in close range, it could be amazing. If you fire single shots in between recoil recovery, it reminds me a lot of the BAR from the older COD games. A modded controller which is set to fire at a very low RPM might actually make the L86 LSW an incredible weapon.
Throwing Knives are the bees knees when you're running a Riot Shield. It's the fastest attack in the entire game, which means the shortest possible time with your shield down. Frags are weaksauce, but they're not useless- they've got just as much killing power as Semtex in HC, but they bounce and can be cooked.
The huge preponderance of M4s, M16s, and Interventions should tell you something: There's a reason people use particular guns. It's because they work.
The M4 has such preponderance as it was the best auto rifle in COD 4 and its available form the start, while ACR is level 50 something I believe. The TTK difference is neglible (under a tenth of a second or so?) but the ACR is more accurate. They're identical up to 20m or so, and then the ACR is slightly better.
The only useless weapons: -Deagle -F2000 (too weak and inaccurate to be a good AR, to slow to be a good SMG) -Throwing knives -Frags
Possibly also the L86 LSW belongs on that list. I didn't include it because it has the highest TTK of any LMG, possibly of any weapon... If you're tactical loitering in close range, it could be amazing. If you fire single shots in between recoil recovery, it reminds me a lot of the BAR from the older COD games. A modded controller which is set to fire at a very low RPM might actually make the L86 LSW an incredible weapon.
I'll have to disagree with you on the F2000 and Frag grenades.
I have had real great success with the F2000 with a Ghost set-up. Silencer, Scavenger+, CB+, and Ninja+. The F2000 has an insane TTK and if you stick to those areas of the map then you will dominate everything except for shotguns and akimbo Glocks.
I'll try it on Quarry. Maybe it will be a good alternative to the TAR or UMP setup I've been using w/ Marathon + Lightweight.
Frag grenades I use because of the "cooking" ability. Nothing like cooking a grenade and having it explode right in a snipers face or over the head of someone crouched in cover.
That doesn't seem necessary, though. Because the fuse time of semtex is short enough that you can toss it around a corner and people don't usually have time to get away, but they always land exactly where you throw them.
Doing tests, semtex and frag grenades seemed to have the same range of lethality (I don't know if their blast radius is different or not).
Whenever I'm actually killed (not wounded) by a frag grenade, it's usually because somebody tossed it and got lucky, because it rolled several feet and killed me.
and its available form the start, while ACR is level 50 something I believe. The TTK difference is neglible (under a tenth of a second or so?) but the ACR is more accurate. They're identical up to 20m or so, and then the ACR is slightly better.
Nope. Using Den's stats on the guns' ROF and SnakeX's chart...
Are you going to argue that the 0.075s benefit of the ACR is somehow more significant than the 0.02s benefit of the M4 at close range and the 0.025s benefit at long range? Granted, it's slightly harder to hit stuff at long range with an M4, but easy enough that, unless the ACR user is tactical loitering behind cover with only his head exposed, at a ridiculously long distance... the M4 will win out over the ACR most of the time.
![[Home]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/home.gif "[Home]")
![[New Topics]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/topics.png "[New Topics]")
![[Help]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/help.gif "[Help]")
![[Search]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/search.gif "[Search]")
![[Login]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/login.gif "[Login]")
![[Register]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/register.gif "[Register]")
![[Search This Thread]](http://images.proboards.com/search2.gif "[Search This Thread]")
![[Share Topic]](http://images.proboards.com/new/buttons/share.png "[Share Topic]")
![[Print]](http://images.proboards.com/buttons/print.gif "[Print]")
Author
Logged![[avatar]](http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/3599/martinproject401officer.jpg "[avatar]")
![[avatar]](http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/734398_577016528975377_31510539_n.jpg "[avatar]")
![[avatar]](http://images.proboards.com/avatars/linux.gif "[avatar]")
![[avatar]](http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa46/zombislayer3/171204thx-1-1.jpg "[avatar]")
![[avatar]](http://i.imgur.com/coRNc.png "[avatar]")
![[avatar]](http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m297/TerroristHunter9/Blood_wall.jpg "[avatar]")
![[image]](http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1507/m4vsacr.jpg "[image]")