Den
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Post by Den on Nov 29, 2010 13:22:47 GMT -5
Gunkick is 5 to 15 down, 10 right and 5 left for any gun. So incredibly low that (with its extremely high recovery) it recovers before even Rapid Fire weapons can shoot again. It's been used in the past several COD games just to make the weapon more animate when shooting. The BO pistols deviate from those numbers a bit (Makarov even having a gun kick of 50 in one direction), but their rates of fire are low, they'll recover before the next shot can be taken. Modifying COD4 weapons, I gave two AK47s zero viewkick and no idle. I then fired both side by side across a long distance on Backlot, each got about 120 shots on the wall. The dot on the right is the AK47 with it's 5 -15 down/up and 10 -5 left/right. The space in the crosshairs is the AK47 with +50 +50 +50 -50 gunkick. Even when the AK47 at default 5 15 10 5 is put at 0.05 Firetime (bottom left), the inaccuracy from GunKick is almost absolute zero even at long range.
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Post by themccannman on Nov 29, 2010 14:51:39 GMT -5
idk waht ya'll are complain' bout, i love the ak
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phale
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Post by phale on Nov 29, 2010 16:04:16 GMT -5
Gunkick is 5 to 15 down, 10 right and 5 left for any gun. So incredibly low that (with its extremely high recovery) it recovers before even Rapid Fire weapons can shoot again. It's been used in the past several COD games just to make the weapon more animate when shooting. The BO pistols deviate from those numbers a bit (Makarov even having a gun kick of 50 in one direction), but their rates of fire are low, they'll recover before the next shot can be taken. Modifying COD4 weapons, I gave two AK47s zero viewkick and no idle. I then fired both side by side across a long distance on Backlot, each got about 120 shots on the wall. The dot on the right is the AK47 with it's 5 -15 down/up and 10 -5 left/right. The space in the crosshairs is the AK47 with +50 +50 +50 -50 gunkick. Even when the AK47 at default 5 15 10 5 is put at 0.05 Firetime (bottom left), the inaccuracy from GunKick is almost absolute zero even at long range. Thanks for the info Den! So GunKick essentially does nothing for the actual accuracy of any gun. But how much effect does it have on the visual recoil of a weapon? Den, when you set the GunKick values to 50, did it cause the gun to shake more or something similar? Did the visual recoil become more pronounced or distracting? Considering that GunKick values are the same for each weapon, I think that it's probably not GunKick that's causing the visual recoil - it's the animation for each weapon's recoil. Because the Enfield has a different animation than the Galil, it looks like it has more recoil (at least to most players). But aesthetic recoil is exactly that - aesthetic. If you feel more comfortable with a weapon's recoil animation, you should definitely use it.
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aequinox
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Post by aequinox on Nov 29, 2010 23:30:43 GMT -5
Awesome intel.
So as Gunkick has nothing to do with recoil, it seems like it all comes down to the animation of the weapons that make people perceive certain weapons to have higher recoil.
I would also definitely have to add another factor, which I personally believe to have a much greater affect than any weapon animation: Sound Recoil Theory. The actual sound that a weapon makes when firing will lead people to believe it has higher or lower recoil than it normally should. Loud, distinct noises indicate a high recoil, while softer noises that "blend" into each other more seamlessly make people believe it has a lower recoil.
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n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on Nov 30, 2010 0:33:44 GMT -5
Another competitor appeared!
Muzzle Flash Recoil Theory.
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phale
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Post by phale on Nov 30, 2010 15:25:28 GMT -5
Muzzle flash is part of visual recoil, LOL
Anyway, the above is all true - aesthetic factors such as visual recoil, muzzle flash, all have just as much or more impact on player accuracy as recoil. Remember MW2 when people claimed that silencers reduced recoil? They didn't reduce actual recoil, but they reduced sound and eliminated muzzle flash, making it seem like it had less recoil. Also building onto the soft "blending" sound theory: The faster a weapon fires, the more sounds blend into each other - making it seem like it has less recoil. Or even the other way around - more distinct sounds make a gun (think AUG) sound slower than a different gun that has the same RoF but a softer firing sound (Famas). In the end, the aesthetic factors are just as important when determining which weapons are the best - the gun that the player feels the most comfortable with is the best for him. And aesthetics are not a quantity we can measure accurately.
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Post by caboose on Nov 30, 2010 18:10:57 GMT -5
Gunkick is 5 to 15 down, 10 right and 5 left for any gun. How do you explain the higher visual kick on the AK47 then, compared to the Commando?
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n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on Nov 30, 2010 22:22:45 GMT -5
Gunkick is 5 to 15 down, 10 right and 5 left for any gun. How do you explain the higher visual kick on the AK47 then, compared to the Commando? It's part of the animation, and the gunkick stat doesn't actually give any higher visual kick.
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Post by caboose on Nov 30, 2010 23:00:23 GMT -5
I'm confused. What is Gunkick then?
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n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on Nov 30, 2010 23:17:45 GMT -5
It's another stat that used to be used, but now doesn't do anything.
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Post by jackmcmahon on Dec 1, 2010 6:47:31 GMT -5
Den, can you post the gun kick for all the black ops weapons and do your best to explain if it is gun kick or something else that makes guns like the ak47 look like they are jumping a lot when in reality they arent. Is it gun kick or something else?
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n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on Dec 1, 2010 7:33:13 GMT -5
Den, can you post the gun kick for all the black ops weapons Gunkick is 5 to 15 down, 10 right and 5 left for any gun. So incredibly low that (with its extremely high recovery) it recovers before even Rapid Fire weapons can shoot again. It's been used in the past several COD games just to make the weapon more animate when shooting.
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Post by KingVaroon on Dec 1, 2010 7:39:48 GMT -5
If i remember correctly..
ViewKick: When your cross hair stays aimed at the center of the screen and the view on your tv screen kicks (recoil)
GunKick: When your cross hair/aim actually kicks off the center of the screen (no longer used)
AK-47: The gun jumps between shots because of its animation.. not gun or view kick
note: when i say cross hair, im not talking about hip fire.
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Post by caboose on Dec 1, 2010 17:18:23 GMT -5
In other words, like previously stated, the numbers for visual kick (not viewkick) can not be extracted (yet).
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Post by KingVaroon on Dec 1, 2010 19:03:38 GMT -5
Those numbers are irrelevant. They do not affect the shot pattern in anyway.
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Post by caboose on Dec 2, 2010 10:36:00 GMT -5
Nah, but now we're back to the AK47 and the Commando. Clearly it makes a difference in how well you are able to stay on target. (so they're not irrelevant)
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Post by jackmcmahon on Dec 2, 2010 18:49:02 GMT -5
When den said 5-15 down, but the right and and left are the same for all guns. if the ak47 is 15 down and the commando is like 5 down. that could mean that gun kick affects it. Den could you just post the gunkick for the ak47 and the commando or even the galil and the enfield.
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Post by rejectionrole on Dec 2, 2010 19:32:26 GMT -5
When den said 5-15 down, but the right and and left are the same for all guns. if the ak47 is 15 down and the commando is like 5 down. that could mean that gun kick affects it. Den could you just post the gunkick for the ak47 and the commando or even the galil and the enfield. Pretty sure that '5 to 15 down' means it kicks down a random vertical value between -5 and -15, just like it kicks a random horizontal value between -5 and 10.
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phale
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Post by phale on Dec 2, 2010 20:54:25 GMT -5
Gunkick is 5 to 15 down, 10 right and 5 left for any gun. So incredibly low that (with its extremely high recovery) it recovers before even Rapid Fire weapons can shoot again. It's been used in the past several COD games just to make the weapon more animate when shooting. It's not enough to make a difference. The real difference is the animation.
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Post by rejectionrole on Dec 2, 2010 22:09:18 GMT -5
Gunkick is 5 to 15 down, 10 right and 5 left for any gun. So incredibly low that (with its extremely high recovery) it recovers before even Rapid Fire weapons can shoot again. It's been used in the past several COD games just to make the weapon more animate when shooting. It's not enough to make a difference. The real difference is the animation. I'm clear on that, I was just correcting the previous post.
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phale
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Post by phale on Dec 2, 2010 22:21:14 GMT -5
Yes, I know, I was correcting that post too...
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Post by KingVaroon on Dec 2, 2010 23:00:35 GMT -5
Nah, but now we're back to the AK47 and the Commando. Clearly it makes a difference in how well you are able to stay on target. (so they're not irrelevant) Knowing visual kick numbers will not help you stay on target. If you really are having trouble using the AK then what you need is the Red Dot sight, not visual kick numbers.
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Post by caboose on Dec 6, 2010 20:13:12 GMT -5
Well I don't know about you, but I think most people find it harder to stay on target with the AK47 than the Commando, when the AK bounces that much visually.
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Post by KingVaroon on Dec 7, 2010 7:15:30 GMT -5
I guess i have just become accustomed to it. But like i said before, use the red dot sight if you are having trouble. Warlord is a great way to have red dot and still remain silenced.
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Post by rejectionrole on Dec 7, 2010 14:02:55 GMT -5
Tbh optics are pretty much a waste of space. If you don't want to run Silencer run Dual Mags / Extended Mags / Grip (depending on what you're using). And if you're forced to use Warlord just to add optics, I'd rather be using SoH / Hardened or even SA.
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n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on Dec 7, 2010 23:01:44 GMT -5
Tbh optics are pretty much a waste of space. If you don't want to run Silencer run Dual Mags / Extended Mags / Grip (depending on what you're using). And if you're forced to use Warlord just to add optics, I'd rather be using SoH / Hardened or even SA. My philosophy right here. (except switch the silencer and extended mag)
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Post by jackmcmahon on Dec 10, 2010 5:54:04 GMT -5
Gunkick is 5 to 15 down, 10 right and 5 left for any gun. So incredibly low that (with its extremely high recovery) it recovers before even Rapid Fire weapons can shoot again. It's been used in the past several COD games just to make the weapon more animate when shooting. The BO pistols deviate from those numbers a bit (Makarov even having a gun kick of 50 in one direction), but their rates of fire are low, they'll recover before the next shot can be taken. Modifying COD4 weapons, I gave two AK47s zero viewkick and no idle. I then fired both side by side across a long distance on Backlot, each got about 120 shots on the wall. The dot on the right is the AK47 with it's 5 -15 down/up and 10 -5 left/right. The space in the crosshairs is the AK47 with +50 +50 +50 -50 gunkick. Even when the AK47 at default 5 15 10 5 is put at 0.05 Firetime (bottom left), the inaccuracy from GunKick is almost absolute zero even at long range. Did the AK in the test from cod4 still bounce the way it does normally or did it bounce more.
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Den
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Post by Den on Dec 10, 2010 6:36:45 GMT -5
What do you mean "bounce"?
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Post by KingVaroon on Dec 10, 2010 6:44:48 GMT -5
i think hes referring to the AK-47's firing animation.
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Den
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Post by Den on Dec 10, 2010 6:46:21 GMT -5
It's a single canned animation. It doesn't change.
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