mannon
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Post by mannon on May 2, 2011 4:53:59 GMT -5
Some of the information on claymores is a bit confusing...
CoD4 "6 Meter and 60° forward cone trigger area 0.83 second delay motion trigger" 6.5 Meter and 90° blast cone (paraphrased from diagram)
MW2 "Claymores have: 0.75 second delay after detection. Scrambler Pro increases the delay to 3 seconds. 192 inch detection range. 70° forward field of view detection radius."
BO "The Claymore has a specific cone for its blast. 60° in either direction from where you face it. It's trigger area is near-identical to its blast radius. The C4's trigger and Claymore's sensor Detonation both take approximately 0.83 seconds."
or
"The Claymore has a damage of 200 - 50 A range of 256 A blast angle of 120° total (or 60 left and 60 right of its facing) And a 0.83 detonation timer
So... it is still pretty much identical to the COD4 version."
Seems to me that Den generally describes the radius of the cone rather than the diameter, thus the MW2 cone is actually larger. If I'm reading this right then I think I've got the detection cones all worked out, but I'm still unsure about the blast cones. CoD4 is the only one that really specifically addresses the difference, which is rather significant to me because the blast cone is a bit larger to insure the triggering enemy is probably in the blast area. It's important to me to know where I'm safe from my own claymores, though.
Unfortunately the info on the BO claymores seems a little contradictory, though I guess Den was not talking about the blast cone being identical to CoD4 if it's near-identical to the detection cone... Well, that is unless he considers 60° and 90° to be near-identical.
I would like some hard numerical confirmation on the radius and length of all blast, and detection cones. Even if it is near-identical I'd kinda like to see just how close it is in degrees if that's possible?
Anyway, thanks a ton.
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Post by duckcall00 on May 2, 2011 14:12:03 GMT -5
While we're on the topic of claymores...
In Zombies it seems that claymores deal: 200 - 50 damage (+ some random float?) 5 Meter range 60° blast cone
A claymore in Zombies couldn't get a kill past Round 1 if it only does 200 damage. So how much damage does it actually deal?
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Den
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Post by Den on May 2, 2011 19:06:34 GMT -5
It's always Radius. That 90 on the COD4 image is definitely a typo or a 6 that has been mysteriously flipped upside down. It should also be 60.
As for Claymores and Monkeys:
// make claymores scale like the bouncing betties used to { if ( IsDefined( self.zombie_damage_claymore_func ) ) { self [[ self.zombie_damage_claymore_func ]]( mod, hit_location, hit_origin, player ); } else if ( isdefined( player ) && isalive( player ) ) { self DoDamage( level.round_number * randomintrange( 100, 200 ), self.origin, player); } else { self DoDamage( level.round_number * randomintrange( 100, 200 ), self.origin, undefined ); } }
So on top of the Claymore's 200-50 damage, it has extra bonus damage between 100 and 200 multiplied by the round number. So Round 15, Claymores and Monkey Bombs would do up to 1500 and 3000 damage.
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Post by duckcall00 on May 2, 2011 20:06:19 GMT -5
Do on Round 15 do Claymores deal an additional 1500 to 3000 damage, or a total 1500 to 3000 damage?
ie: 15 * 100 = 1500 + 50 (minimum damage) 15 * 200 = 3000 + 200 (max damage)
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Den
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Post by Den on May 2, 2011 20:07:46 GMT -5
Yeah. A minimum of 1550 and a max of 3200.
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Post by themccannman on May 2, 2011 20:52:11 GMT -5
So would anybody like to explain by BO claymroes are so damn OP? every time i set one down i'm preactically garunteed a kill, the only time o won't get a kill is if i die before somebody runs into, i'm quitre sure i've never gotten a claymroe hit marker in Bo however claymores were perfectly fine in previous CoD's
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Post by MastaQ on May 2, 2011 21:04:47 GMT -5
So would anybody like to explain by BO claymroes are so gosh darn golly gee whiz OP? every time i set one down i'm preactically garunteed a kill, the only time o won't get a kill is if i die before somebody runs into, i'm quitre sure i've never gotten a claymroe hit marker in Bo however claymores were perfectly fine in previous CoD's I think part of it has to do with the little "beep" sound the Claymore makes. I'm almost certain the BO claymore beep is delayed compared to the CoD4 version. In CoD4 when the claymore made the beep sound you had a split-second to get out of the way whereas in BO if you heard the beep you're pretty much dead. I could be wrong, but that's how I see it.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 2, 2011 21:55:31 GMT -5
Ahhh! Well that clears up a lot. Should I assume then that the blast radius in all cases actually is equal to the detection radius? I thought that it was a bit larger from anecdotal experience. I guess the only difference between the two is the range then?
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Post by themccannman on May 2, 2011 22:46:23 GMT -5
I don't think thats it because I have hacker pro on almost all of my classes and if i can't shoot the claymore through a wall then it's a real b*tch to disable it. In all other CoD's i've been able to disable claymores by walking just into the edge of their detection and backing up without taking any damage, in BO i have trouble activating it and getting far enough away that it doesn't kill me, i've even been killed through walls by claymores before.
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Post by randomguy987 on May 3, 2011 0:36:23 GMT -5
I don't think thats it because I have hacker pro on almost all of my classes and if i can't shoot the claymore through a wall then it's a real b*tch to disable it. In all other CoD's i've been able to disable claymores by walking just into the edge of their detection and backing up without taking any damage, in BO i have trouble activating it and getting far enough away that it doesn't kill me, i've even been killed through walls by claymores before. Yeah, that's been my experience as well. BO claymores definitely feel more "insta-kill-ish" . . . at least on 360. Hmmm, maybe the console and PC stats are different (it's happened before, cf. MP40)?
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tacit
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Post by tacit on May 3, 2011 1:51:51 GMT -5
When you listen to the sound of the CoD4 and the MW2 claymores, there's a very audible "click" when the triggering takes place.
On Black Ops, the sound of the trigger is pretty well masked - if you're on a map like Array, there's a consistent howl of wind, plus the sound of callouts, gunfire and footsteps that mask the sound.
I went back and played a CoD4 split-screen with the Marksman R700 class [the only one with claymores] and the time between the trigger genuinely feels longer than its Black Ops counterpart.
If someone has the relevant audio files for the claymores, or can point me in their direction, I'd be happy to import them into a non-linear audio editor to check out the difference in detonation time.
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tacit
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Post by tacit on May 3, 2011 2:33:08 GMT -5
Okay, so I managed to do a [poor] recording of the audio exceprts from the CoD4 claymore and the Black Ops claymore.
Doing a highlight of the audio to which the claymore trigger and detonation correlated, the CoD4 claymore [from trigger sound to detonation] was approximately 0.757 seconds. There's obviously a small margin of error there.
The Black Ops claymore [from that double sound, high pitched to detonation] was 0.45 seconds, give or take 1 or 2 one hundredths of a second.
I'm not suggesting that the audio is correct, but it is compelling.
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Den
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Post by Den on May 3, 2011 3:24:44 GMT -5
While I can't confirm the Black Ops Claymore sound (it's in one of the .ff files), the sound for the Claymore Click in COD4 comes in at 0.18 seconds. So that's at least three human reaction times to get out of the way. The way the "deedalee" of the Black Ops Claymore sounds off, it is as though the sound only just finishes before the claymore detonates.
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tacit
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Post by tacit on May 3, 2011 3:54:42 GMT -5
Interesting that we both used Audacity: i53.tinypic.com/ng850y.png The first is the Black Ops one - the highlighted area is from the start of when the audio click sounds, and the delay between that and the detonation: states it as 0.4411 seconds [near the bottom]. i54.tinypic.com/9hns4l.png This one is the CoD4 one - 0.757 seconds approx. The issue I'm having is that either the audio doesn't correlate to a correct detonation time stat, or that the audio is actually representative of the real delay. Question is, which one?
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manny
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Post by manny on May 3, 2011 16:18:36 GMT -5
I didn't want to make a new thread about this, but when you pointed out you made a typo I remembered that the MW2 chart says that the Desert Eagle's magazine capacity is 8.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 3, 2011 18:13:30 GMT -5
Perhaps the sound of the explosion is slightly delayed the same way there is essentially dead space at the start of the click sound? This would account for the extra time between the click and explosion sounds heard in game, though it would probably not represent the actual time you have to get out of the way. I wonder if anybody could check the explosion sound effect and see where in it the explosion sound starts.
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Den
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Post by Den on May 3, 2011 18:24:29 GMT -5
It doesn't appear that there's any delay, outside of latency. The instant the claymore is triggered, the sound is called to play.
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tacit
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Post by tacit on May 3, 2011 18:40:26 GMT -5
It's definitely apparent to me from the audio sample I referenced, that the Black Ops claymore has a shorter audible time between trigger sound and detonation. However, I don't know if the sequence of events is: Claymore trigger - corresponding audio plays - delay before detonation - detonation or Claymore trigger - delay - corresponding audio plays - delay before detonation - detonation The first would indicate that the actual delay time before detonation is < the statistically stated one. The second would indicate that the statistical time is correct, but would also infer that the audio is poorly correlating to the trigger sound. Edit: I retested the Black Ops claymore sound, and the initial one I posted is actually false by a small amount of time. The trigger is before the high-pitched sound, but only by approximately 0.13 seconds. Here's the Audacity waveform for it: i51.tinypic.com/2nsotw3.png I can upload the audio if you want it, but beware - I didn't have a compressor/limiter on input, so the claymore clips at 0dB. Damn digital format.
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