Re: MW3 Recoil Plots « Reply #270 on Mar 21, 2012, 6:13pm »
psijaka - The game guide you referenced and the spreadsheets both show a horizontal min of -25 and max of -10 for the MP7. If that were the case, wouldn't the graph for the MP7 show a much clearer trend upward and to the left than it does? That graph seems to show a horizontal min of -25 and max of 10. Was there something I missed showing that the data was wrong and the max is 10, not -10? Or are my calculations incorrect?
psijaka - The game guide you referenced and the spreadsheets both show a horizontal min of -25 and max of -10 for the MP7. If that were the case, wouldn't the graph for the MP7 show a much clearer trend upward and to the left than it does? That graph seems to show a horizontal min of -25 and max of 10. Was there something I missed showing that the data was wrong and the max is 10, not -10? Or are my calculations incorrect?
You can see the leftward movement a little better on the rapidfire plot. 15 units to the left will barely show with the high centerspeed and current RoF of the gun.
psijaka - The game guide you referenced and the spreadsheets both show a horizontal min of -25 and max of -10 for the MP7. If that were the case, wouldn't the graph for the MP7 show a much clearer trend upward and to the left than it does? That graph seems to show a horizontal min of -25 and max of 10. Was there something I missed showing that the data was wrong and the max is 10, not -10? Or are my calculations incorrect?
You can see the leftward movement a little better on the rapidfire plot. 15 units to the left will barely show with the high centerspeed and current RoF of the gun.
My calculations are below, with using -10 shown on the left and 10 on the right.
Using 10 I get an image that looks fairly consistent with what psijaka reflects, but when I use -10 I get something far different.
You can see the leftward movement a little better on the rapidfire plot. 15 units to the left will barely show with the high centerspeed and current RoF of the gun.
My calculations are below, with using -10 shown on the left and 10 on the right.
Using 10 I get an image that looks fairly consistent with what psijaka reflects, but when I use -10 I get something far different.
Oh ok I misunderstood what you were saying.
-25 to -10 doesn't feel right for that weapon from what I recall using that weapon. It definitely feels more like +10 than -10 from my experience. I'll probably do some manual tests later to make sure, though.
Joined: Feb 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 10,879 Location: Orkney
Re: MW3 Recoil Plots « Reply #275 on Mar 26, 2012, 8:38am »
Just to confirm; I use -10 and -25 in my calculations, as displayed in the game guide.
Even though this suggests a leftwards pull to the gun; in reality this is absolutely minimal because the gun can recover from kick of 22.1 before the next round is fired. Thus only kick between -22.1 and -25 will result in the gun not recovering from it's leftward recoil. So 92% of the time, the gun will recover.
Result, a vertical recoil plot with occasional small deviations to the left.
Re: MW3 Recoil Plots « Reply #276 on Mar 31, 2012, 12:23am »
This really makes me think the lack of recoil on the MP7 is a bug that will just never get fixed. Everything has recoil but this one gun has a strait climb up? Go IW/Sledgehammer/ whoever had their hand in this bloody games pot
This really makes me think the lack of recoil on the MP7 is a bug that will just never get fixed. Everything has recoil but this one gun has a strait climb up? Go IW/Sledgehammer/ whoever had their hand in this bloody games pot
its not a bug, they decided that virtually no recoil is balanced by low high damage range, thus in their eyes it is balanced, the only nerf they would give it would be a damage/range nerf, as there is almost always a no recoil SMG
its not a bug, they decided that virtually no recoil is balanced by low high damage range, thus in their eyes it is balanced, the only nerf they would give it would be a damage/range nerf, as there is almost always a no recoil SMG
Oh yeah that's balance.... it's like the best gun in the game and can kill at any range because there is no recoil... but this is from the company who thinks not being able to aim down sights is how you balance doubling a players fire power with akimbo and that 2 guns can reload faster then one.
This really makes me think the lack of recoil on the MP7 is a bug that will just never get fixed. Everything has recoil but this one gun has a strait climb up? Go IW/Sledgehammer/ whoever had their hand in this bloody games pot
GC36 has pretty similar recoil. And is that a lack of recoil? Looks like it has a higher vertical recoil than most guns. Easier to control but it isn't a question of control.
Please make a recoil chart for waw guns..! A lot of the guns have insanely high recenterspeeds (mp40/stg44/browning/fg42 etc), and I want to see how the recoil of waw guns match up with the other cod games!
« Last Edit: Apr 19, 2012, 12:33pm by arcanine2009 »
Notes: *I tested about 9 weapons.. I chose these weapons because they had very interesting recoil patterns, with many of them having insanely high centerspeed, and I always wanted to know their recoil charts..
-Thompson pretty much has the same recoil pattern and values as the MP5 from BO
-STG44, BAR, and DP-28 have insanely low recoil, thanks to high center speed. Same with MP40, though it kicks quite a bit to the right--very predictable though.
-FG42 has similar recoil pattern as M4 from MW3, but higher recoil. If the FG42 had the same RoF and recenterspeed AS M4 from MW3, they would be nearly identical.
-MG42 and Browning's recoil pattern are very similar. MG42 has lower re42.coil values, but Browning has significantly more centerspeed, which gives it significantly better recoil than MG42.
You're right.. Whoops that changes things considerably.. And now when I look at the recoil values, I can see it makes sense. MP40 has the same recoil patternfi as the Thompson, but significantly less recoil, due to the higher recenterspeed, that more than makes up for its high recoil values.
« Last Edit: Apr 20, 2012, 7:52pm by arcanine2009 »
No, his simulations always assumed (correctly) that the game used a velocity/acceleration model. But the game applies two different accelerations during deflection (the gun moving away from center in either axis) and re-centering (moving towards center):
The magic formula view recovery = CS*FT/5 is still correct, but the gun does not follow a symmetric trajectory, as it would if it were under the effect of a single, constant acceleration.
Edit: Wait, you were referring to psijaka's plots, right?
No, not psijakas. Someone made a program that made recoil plots and you could input the values. I thought those plots up a bit were from that.
I know something is wrong with the program because increasing firerate to obscene amounts continues to increase recoil, rather than reduce it. I figured that it being displacement/velocity would explain that.
That is taking in account the guns in this game. They have their centerspeed so high that almost all shots (not sure, it's probably all of them) will already be recentering when the next one is fired. Since Rapid Fire, for example, increases the fire rate, it will cause the guns to not be able to begin the recenter in time or perhaps a smaller recenter, causing each shot to accumulate to the next one (similarly to how gunkick works, but not the same thing).
Imagine this scenario: Gun with 60 rpm start going up at some random velocity, centerspeed made it stop at 7 degrees and then starts to recenter the shot. A second has passed. The gun is now 5 degrees from where the first shot started... and fires again. If the initial velocity is the same, it will reach 12 degrees and at next shot, it will be at 10 degrees.
However, if you increase the fire rate, the gun will shoot again before the recenter has taken so much action at recentering, meaning that the gun will now shot again at 6 degrees, for example. On the next shot, it will be 12 degrees. It has increased the recoil. Only ridiculously high firerates (or very low centerspeed) will result in a more accurate shot. Or maybe there is some other mechanic applying.
.00001 firetime is 100000 shots per second? 6mil RPM?
Theres no way the gun should have any recoil at all at that speed. There would be 2 frames of shooting and then reload.
So options are:
1: More to recoil than we know 2: The game isnt capable of handling firerates like that 3: Pon3z?
30ms at, lets assume a worst case scenario of 74+2/3rds degrees [second?] (That would be 30 consecutive recoil rolls of 75) would be a total movement of 2.39 degrees up.
Take 700rpm and give it a more normal 30 degree per second on all rolls, with centerspeed brining that down to 6, thats still 14.4 degrees up after all bullets are out.
Thats all assuming I know how these variables work [Unlikely ] Also, I accidentally used 1500 instead of 1600 as G36C centerspeed. Shouldnt have any profound effects.
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