fred
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Post by fred on Dec 6, 2011 2:52:47 GMT -5
The call of duty wiki claimed that ballistic vests give 30 extra points of non-renewable health: callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Ballistic_VestsThis is false. My initial post stated that the ballistic vest grants 70 EXTRA POINTS of HEALTH (non-heal-able). This is not correct either ... but it was progress. Thanks very much to battleaxerx (and also megaqwerty) for making it clear that the AS50 won't kill in Touch Football which I hadn't tested at all. That got me to test more and finally figure this sumbeatch out. The ballistic vest algorithm is much more interesting than a simple health addition IN CORE: The ballistic vest grants the user 50 to 100 points of extra health. The first shot over 50 destroys the vest but the vest will absorb up to 50 more damage in this last shot. The order of shots does matter. Your opponent can tell if the vest is functioning if they see the BV "Jug" icon show up. This is best illustrated in examples: * RSASS Silenced (50) (vest now gone) + RSASS Silenced (50) + CM901(49) = SURVIVE. Add one flashbang and they DIE every time. * CM901 (49) + CM901 (49) (vest now gone) + CM901(49) + CM901(49) = SURVIVE after taking 196 points damage. But add 2 flashbangs and they DIE every time. * CM901 (49) + flashbang (vest now gone) + MP9(33) + MP9(33) + MP9(33) = SURVIVE. Add 1 flashbang and they DIE every time. This was only 150 points damage ... the minimum possible. * Flashbang (1) + Flashbang (1) + Barrett Leg Shot (98) (vest now gone) + Barret Leg Shot (98) = SURVIVE after taking 198 points damage ... with 2 points health remaining because if I quickly respawn the shooter I can kill with just 2 more flashbangs. The first three shots had the BV "jug" icon show. * Barrett Leg Shot (98) (vest now gone) + Barrett Leg Shot (98) + Flashbang (1) + FlashBang(1) = DEATH with the same 198 points of damage. Only the 1st shot showed the BV "jug" icon. * Barrett Headshot (147) (vest now gone) + 3 X FiveseveN (17) shots = SURVIVE. However just two (non-DI) flashbangs then result in DEATH. This is exactly 200 points of damage and is as good as it gets in core. Long story short in core the BV will allow you to take 1-3 more hits from automatic guns (not shotty, see below) than you normally would survive. >= 50 = 1 more hit can be survived 25 to 49 = 2 more hits can be survived 17 to 24 = 3 more shots can be survived IN HARD CORE:The ballistic vest grants the user 50 to 186+ points of extra health. The first shot over 50 destroys the vest but the vest will absorb up to seemingly INFINITY more damage in this last shot ... up to a full 147 point sniper headshot after a 49 point AR shot. As before, the order of shots does matter and your opponent can tell if the vest is functioning if they see the BV "Jug" icon show up. Again this is best illustrated in examples: * CM901 (49) + Barrett Headshot (147) (vest now gone) = SURVIVE * CM901 (49) + Barrett Headshot (147) (vest now gone) + quick switch FiveseveN lying on ground (17-29) at distance = STILL SURVIVE * CM901 (49) + Flashbang (vest now gone) + Skorp (30) = Die with only 80 points damage b/c the vest was stripped efficiently and the last shot exactly 30. So in Touch Football the same applies as above to the more usual situation of facing an automatic weapon ... >= 50 = 1 more hit can be survived in HC 25 to 49 = 2 more hits can be survived in HC 17 to 24 = 3 more shots can be survived in HC SPECIALS:Knife kills no matter what. Each shotgun pellet is treated as a separate hit. For example if I use a SPAS-12 with EM proficiency 3x30 damage pellets are needed to kill a HC BV user. If you look carefully you will actually see 6 remaining pellets spent on the wall behind the target. Many Bothans died to bring us this information.
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Post by drakealdan on Dec 6, 2011 5:02:29 GMT -5
70! No shit.
I have noticed that I am a lot more likely to survive extended firefights with a vest on.
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Evan950
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Post by Evan950 on Dec 6, 2011 6:50:02 GMT -5
alot of stupid players never realise how one bullet will save your life. Ballistic vests are worth it. period.
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cmak
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Post by cmak on Dec 6, 2011 7:51:03 GMT -5
Kudos to you for this! Very useful info. Can anyone comment on the benefit this may give in other modes? Maybe it's a 1.7x multiplier, meaning it's wouldn't be super-OP in Hardćore (which I have yet to play in MW3 anyways, not after the BO tactical loitering horseshít).
Also, is it true that as soon as you take any form of damage, the Ballistic Vest boost starts going away? This would suck if you were to do this in SnD for example, and then lose it due to a random flashbang...
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 6, 2011 13:59:50 GMT -5
XboxAhoy says 30 points and my own experience correlates well with that. I'll try to test this though.
You do realize that 70 extra health is a shitload of health, right? That said, I'm not sure how, given your testing parameters, you could have possibly messed this up.
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acidsnow
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Post by acidsnow on Dec 6, 2011 14:02:56 GMT -5
30hp always sounded like BS to me. I used the vest for a better part of a week, and it obviously felt like a lot more than just +30hp. 70 is very believable in my XP.
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Post by swoopwithnon4m3 on Dec 6, 2011 14:12:00 GMT -5
XboxAhoy says 30 points and my own experience correlates well with that. I'll try to test this though. You do realize that 70 extra health is a doo-dooload of health, right? That said, I'm not sure how, given your testing parameters, you could have possibly messed this up. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if IW gave him a BradyGames guide and he checks all his information against this site (He's a known lurker) so since everybody and their mother was saying 30, that's the number he posted.
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Post by mrboo2501 on Dec 6, 2011 14:16:30 GMT -5
Wow...nice work fred. I wouldn't have guessed based off my experience that it was that high.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 6, 2011 14:19:55 GMT -5
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if IW gave him a BradyGames guide and he checks all his information against this site (He's a known lurker) so since everybody and their mother was saying 30, that's the number he posted. The thing about 30 is that it makes tons of sense: 130 health is very, very close to what Juggernaut would give you.
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battleaxerx
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Post by battleaxerx on Dec 6, 2011 14:43:14 GMT -5
AS50 can't one hit kill a guy with a vest in HC search. It's 70 extra at least.
Wow, I helped! Thanks for giving me credit, Fred. And props to you for figuring that out, nice work. ;D
So it's basically broken sh*t in HC. Fanfoxtrttintastic
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 6, 2011 16:30:05 GMT -5
AS50 can't one hit kill a guy with a vest in HC search. It's 70 extra at least. HC is 30 health. 30+70 (Vest) = 100. AS50 does 147 (98*1.5) damage to the chest up and 107 (98*1.1) to the stomach. It should still one shot, if you don't hit the limbs.
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ninja
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Post by ninja on Dec 6, 2011 18:14:26 GMT -5
Is it not 30 health, and a damage reduction?
It might just be my personal experience, but it always seems to last until I've taken a certain amount of damage. Is there any chance it could work like armor mode from Crysis 2, where a certain amount of damage was diverted to the jacket?
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Post by drakealdan on Dec 6, 2011 21:46:27 GMT -5
Played a bunch of hardcore matches.
Ballistic Vests are THE BEST killstreak in these modes. Set it up and nothing else so that it stacks, and then throw it down in a safe spot when you spawn.
Vests actually "heal" you if you have a bloody screen. I've put a vest on, got shot at, and then went to another spot and put another vest on. It's so good.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 6, 2011 23:01:58 GMT -5
Ballistic Vests are THE BEST killstreak in these modes. Set it up and nothing else so that it stacks, and then throw it down in a safe spot when you spawn. If you're doing that, there's no harm in also taking UAV, as it is below vests. Also, you can only take one vest per pile per life. So...if there are multiple piles, you can take multiple vests per life.
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Post by drakealdan on Dec 6, 2011 23:28:04 GMT -5
Also, you can only take one vest per pile per life. So...if there are multiple piles, you can take multiple vests per life. Yeah, that's what I've been doing. If everyone ran Ballistic Vests, it'd be a headache and a half for the other team. If you're doing that, there's no harm in also taking UAV, as it is below vests. Sometimes I don't like using UAV. Gives my random teammates a false sense of security- especially in hardcore where the odds are high that the entire enemy team is equipped with Assassin. What I've begun doing is going UAV + Vests, and just using the vests, letting the UAV overwrite and only calling it in if someone else calls it in.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 7, 2011 0:25:10 GMT -5
The most important benefit of the UAV in HC isn't knowing where the enemy might be...it's knowing where your teammates are.
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Post by bigal093 on Dec 7, 2011 1:06:24 GMT -5
Im not disputing these stats, however on COD Elite TV there is a video that specifically states that it gives 30 health. Is it possible that when switching guns the person regenerated health in your tests. I think the easiest way to test it is to shoot a barrett to the head and see if it kills. if not then it gives at least 46 extra health b/c 98*1.5=147
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fred
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Post by fred on Dec 7, 2011 1:40:26 GMT -5
In my original post I didn't give a lot of supporting information, just 3 cases in core mode as "PROOF".
Here is more info. As you can see the effect of ballistic vests is very impressive. I think you can see why I concluded 70 was the magic number.
SHOTS STATUS DAMAGE ============================ 4 x 35 SCAR SURVIVE 140 3 x 49 CM901 SURVIVE 147 5 x 33 MP9 SURVIVE 165 4 x 42 M4 SURVIVE 168 2 x 35 SCAR + 3 x 33 MP9 SURVIVE 169 3 x 35 SCAR + 2 x 33 MP9 DEATH 171 5 x 35 SCAR DEATH 175 4 x 49 CM901 DEATH 196 6 x 33 MP9 DEATH 198 5 x 42 M4 DEATH 210
However, I can definitely be criticized for using only relatively low damage automatic weapons and not trying high power weapons. I think these would be worth trying. I also didn't even think to try hardcore which would probably be a great mode for this point-streak.
I'm going to do more research.
Thanks
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fred
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Post by fred on Dec 7, 2011 2:10:22 GMT -5
Is it possible that when switching guns the person regenerated health in your tests. I think the easiest way to test it is to shoot a barrett to the head and see if it kills. if not then it gives at least 46 extra health b/c 98*1.5=147 No, they didn't heal. Thanks for asking. Yes, a Barrett shot to the head is survivable with Ballistic Vest.
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fred
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Post by fred on Dec 7, 2011 23:56:53 GMT -5
I just totally revised and corrected my initial post. You many want to have a look.
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Post by KingVaroon on Dec 8, 2011 0:42:29 GMT -5
So in essence, the ballistic vest actually grants you 2 things. (1) 50 extra health (2) layer of armor valid up til 50 health points. Once the layer of armor disappears, you now have 150 health left.
Not sure whats heal-able here and whats not though?...
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Post by volgon on Dec 8, 2011 1:07:41 GMT -5
So in essence, the ballistic vest actually grants you 2 things. (1) 50 extra health (2) layer of armor valid up til 50 health points. Once the layer of armor disappears, you now have 150 health left. Not sure whats heal-able here and whats not though?... I don't quite think that's what he's saying. Have you ever played Halo Reach? In that game (I think they've changed it since then) the melee system works similarly to how vests work. In Reach, there's a term called "bleed through" damage. You have both a shield and a health bar. When you melee someone, you lose your entire shield, but as long as you have a shield up, you will never be killed by a melee attack. If you have full hp and a full shield then get melee'd, you now have an empty shield and full health. If you have 1% shield and full hp and get melee'd, you still have no shield and full hp. The melee attack's damage won't "bleed through" the shield and damage your health. Vests function in what seems to be the same fashion. They absorb a set amount of damage before they disappear (same as the shield in Reach).
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fred
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Post by fred on Dec 8, 2011 1:11:37 GMT -5
So in essence, the ballistic vest actually grants you 2 things. (1) 50 extra health (2) layer of armor valid up til 50 health points. Once the layer of armor disappears, you now have 150 health left. Not sure whats heal-able here and whats not though?... Sorry but you don't seem to have the idea exactly right. The first 49 points of damage keeps the vest intact; and any damage to the vest doesn't heal at all. The last shot that pushes the damage to 50 and over gets absorbed: * HC - fully * Core = up to 50 more points beyond the first 50. Either way the vest is now GONE and in: * HC - you then have only 30 health left. * Core - assuming that last shot didn't push damage past 100 total so far you've now got the normal case of 100 heath ... which CAN recover in core. Get it?
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phale
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Post by phale on Dec 8, 2011 1:27:10 GMT -5
Perhaps I can put it this way?
The vest provides 100 extra points of health... but the vest ITSELF only has 50 points of health.
Once those 50 points are gone, the vest is destroyed and the 100 points it provides are gone.
Is this right?
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Post by anthraxx on Dec 8, 2011 1:47:52 GMT -5
EDIT:
Just read Fred's post.
Very interesting findings, everyone.
Cheers.
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Post by drakealdan on Dec 8, 2011 2:11:49 GMT -5
Basically:
WHY AREN'T YOU TAKING MY GODDAMN VESTS YOU RANDOMS HOLY FUCKING SHIT
Good work man. Brilliant.
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farmerjim
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Post by farmerjim on Dec 8, 2011 5:09:26 GMT -5
So in Core, the last shot that will break the vest can allow the user up to 50 hp of additional protection?
Take your HC example, * CM901 (49) + Barrett Headshot (147) (vest now gone) = SURVIVE
According to your testing, in Core, this user would block 99 damage and receive 97, with 3 hp left? This means there is damage bleed through in Core I assume, but not hardcore? What about explosives? Same effect?
Thanks for doing this Fred, Great job.
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Post by alanim on Dec 8, 2011 5:38:20 GMT -5
So in Core, the last shot that will break the vest can allow the user up to 50 hp of additional protection? Take your HC example, * CM901 (49) + Barrett Headshot (147) (vest now gone) = SURVIVE According to your testing, in Core, this user would block 99 damage and receive 97, with 3 hp left? This means there is damage bleed through in Core I assume, but not Touch Football? What about explosives? Same effect? Thanks for doing this Fred, Great job. What might be happening is that the ballistic vests have no bleed through what so ever, so as long as you even have 1 point of ballistic vests left it'll stop any amount of damage. Also for testing, don't cars explode with like 300+ damage at point blank? you could test if a BV user can survive that, because I've seen them survive javalins/deadman hands/etc.
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Post by shatt3r on Dec 8, 2011 9:02:55 GMT -5
I think in his core testing the Barrett HS followed by the Five seveN example shows the damage does bleed through in core as the player can only take 53 damage after the HS
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Post by theuberelite on Dec 8, 2011 10:20:33 GMT -5
You need to test the Type 95 then. Because at point blank, a single type 95 burst will not kill a ballistic vest user - and I tested that myself.
First bullet (55) VEST GONE - Second+Third (110) should be a kill. However it is NOT a kill.
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