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Amirror
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #120 on Jul 29, 2012, 1:06am »
Vertical Recoil isn't usually hard to control. You just need to pull down a little on the stick.
AA-12 only has vertical recoil. Increasing it a little more wouldn't do anything, it'll still be easy to control. I wouldn't call it a "nerf".
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Amirror
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #121 on Jul 29, 2012, 1:18am »

Jul 29, 2012, 12:46am, moabmauler wrote:

Jul 29, 2012, 12:34am, Amirror wrote:

The increased vertical recoil will have them more likely to actually say YES to a damage buff for the AA-12. It won't be too bad, it only has vertical recoil which can be controlled if you can pull it back down.
(Its not really a bad downside, it'll just make the devs more convinced to buff it.) ;)
Trust me, you'll need to do this if you want a better chance for an AA-12 buff to even happen.
Also, most of us really prefer the 8 pellet buff, so keep trying to convince them the 8 pellet proposal (with the recoil increased please :'().


Good point, get them to nerf something that doesn't matter anyway so they will be more willing to increase the damage which really matters. Just keep hammering away about the damage, and hopefully keep them away from the range which they think they need to nerf. :-X

But I want I straight up buff, hopefully thats what we'll get. The words "MW3", "shotgun" and "nerf" shouldn't ever go into the same sentence.

We may not get a straight up buff, that is why I'm suggesting a recoil increase which won't make the AA-12 bad at all, it is not going to make the AA-12 become worse all of a sudden. This is one of the only "nerf" suggestions that won't hurt the AA-12, and would actually might help, since the devs are thinking of reducing shotgun ranges.
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MoopusMaximus
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #122 on Jul 29, 2012, 1:35am »
Yeah, it seems that IW isn't even making this weapon pass public. No one even knows the slightest bit what they're doing. We'll probably see small buffs for every bad gun, I bet.
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Amirror
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #123 on Jul 29, 2012, 2:08am »

Jul 29, 2012, 1:35am, MoopusMaximus wrote:
Yeah, it seems that IW isn't even making this weapon pass public. No one even knows the slightest bit what they're doing. We'll probably see small buffs for every bad gun, I bet.

They're probably going to buff OP or near OP weapons, and nerf UP or near UP weapons. :o >:(
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Amirror
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #124 on Jul 29, 2012, 2:15am »
Yeah, they keep thinking they can fix it their OWN way, even though it either makes it worse or barely better.
Think of the Dragunov, for example. Everyone was asking for a OSK chest multiplier w/out silencer and OSK neck head w/silencer. But instead they had to reduce the recoil slightly and make it a RSASS clone.
They need our suggestions, I have no faith in them making buffs/nerfs unless they do what we suggest.
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moabmauler
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #125 on Jul 29, 2012, 8:43am »

Jul 29, 2012, 2:08am, Amirror wrote:

Jul 29, 2012, 1:35am, MoopusMaximus wrote:
Yeah, it seems that IW isn't even making this weapon pass public. No one even knows the slightest bit what they're doing. We'll probably see small buffs for every bad gun, I bet.

They're probably going to buff OP or near OP weapons, and nerf UP or near UP weapons. :o >:(


Won't surprise me. The G18 and AA12 are some of the most nerfed weapons in mw3 and were UP at launch day. Also, don't forget that time when the akimbos were all turned into akimbo rapid fire PM9s.
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #126 on Jul 29, 2012, 9:39am »
just got back to these forums after a few days...

permanently made the switch back to black ops... spas & stakeout are relieving
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #127 on Jul 29, 2012, 10:14am »
KSG should be like this:

Jun 25, 2012, 8:30am, MoopusMaximus wrote:


Stats:

Jun 25, 2012, 7:24am, Den wrote:
I wonder how my suggested 20-8 x8 500-2000 2.0° shotgun would fare at its maximum range, with and without Steady Aim.
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danoski666
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #128 on Jul 29, 2012, 12:37pm »
^ 5 pellet hit kill up close stinks.
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Mousey
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #129 on Jul 29, 2012, 12:42pm »

Jul 29, 2012, 12:37pm, danoski666 wrote:
^ 5 pellet hit kill up close stinks.



Quote:
500-2000


gonna take a wild guess and say it's not designed for close range.
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moabmauler
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #130 on Jul 29, 2012, 1:06pm »
Those stats would basically turn the KSG into the ballistic knife.
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #131 on Jul 29, 2012, 1:07pm »
except the ballistic knife was a 1hk
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Mousey
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #132 on Jul 29, 2012, 2:03pm »
and didn't have spread

or damage drop off

or more than two shots

or a fast knife

A sniper rifle is closer to the ballistic knife than this
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A Unicorn with the Flag
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #133 on Jul 29, 2012, 2:25pm »

Jul 29, 2012, 2:03pm, Mousey wrote:
A sniper rifle is closer to the ballistic knife than this


Although this would be the closest a shotgun has come to being a sniper. (sans F2000 masterkey but that was useless after a point)
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mmacola
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #134 on Jul 29, 2012, 2:42pm »
They would require much more skill to be used. However, a player skilled enough would dominate with such weapon.
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jackaltornmoons
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #135 on Jul 29, 2012, 2:49pm »

Jul 28, 2012, 10:23pm, Brick2urface wrote:

Jul 28, 2012, 9:30pm, jackaltornmoons wrote:
I've been having a blast with the AA12 the last few days. Sit Rep Pro makes all guns good :).

EDIT: Just checked Elite; 16 games over the last 2 days with the AA12; 298 kills 60 deaths. Wheeeeeeee.


WUT? What is your gamer tag?


JackalTornMoons

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No MOABs with it yet, although I went 31 - 2 on LockDown, with the 2 deaths being from a Model1887 user lol.
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Brick2urface
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #136 on Jul 29, 2012, 2:49pm »
That shotgun would not be very usefull in any ammount of lag. Sure a good player in a great connnection game could do some serious damage, but in normal connections where the hitboxes can be off by a little more than a weapon with such little leeway can handle. If the hitbox is off by more than a few inches then even accurate shots could result in epic fail. It wouldn't be a terrible thing for one pump to be made like this but not all of them.
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mmacola
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #137 on Jul 29, 2012, 2:52pm »

Jul 29, 2012, 2:49pm, Brick2urface wrote:
That shotgun would not be very usefull in any ammount of lag. Sure a good player in a great connnection game could do some serious damage, but in normal connections where the hitboxes can be off by a little more than a weapon with such little leeway can handle. If the hitbox is off by more than a few inches then even accurate shots could result in epic fail. It wouldn't be a terrible thing for one pump to be made like this but not all of them.


No problem if you miss. You aren't 4 feet away from the enemy and a second shot is fairly possible.
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Brick2urface
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #138 on Jul 29, 2012, 2:58pm »
Jack

Its actually 268 kills and 76 deaths but still wtf?! I have so many questions about what I am seeing. Those are litterally freak stats for the aa12. Seriously. Can you put up some of those gameplays for us? If you don't have a pvr or don't want to upload any clips through elite just put them in your file share so I can use my pvr and get them up for us to see. I want to see wtf is going on here.
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mmacola
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #139 on Jul 29, 2012, 3:00pm »
If he is using Sitrep, I believe he is in SnD. If he is good, he can get 3 kills and one death per game (via tactical loitering/team work). Not that hard =P. There is also the fact that ammo goes away pretty fast so he changes weapon and eventually dies with the recently picked up weapon.
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Brick2urface
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #140 on Jul 29, 2012, 3:01pm »

Jul 29, 2012, 2:52pm, mmacola wrote:

Jul 29, 2012, 2:49pm, Brick2urface wrote:
That shotgun would not be very usefull in any ammount of lag. Sure a good player in a great connnection game could do some serious damage, but in normal connections where the hitboxes can be off by a little more than a weapon with such little leeway can handle. If the hitbox is off by more than a few inches then even accurate shots could result in epic fail. It wouldn't be a terrible thing for one pump to be made like this but not all of them.


No problem if you miss. You aren't 4 feet away from the enemy and a second shot is fairly possible.


As you have seen the hitmarkers happen at pont blank as well. You can stay farther away but again it will be more effective at to take an smg or AR at the ranges where a hitmarker from a pump isn't a big deal.
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Brick2urface
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #141 on Jul 29, 2012, 3:02pm »

Jul 29, 2012, 3:00pm, mmacola wrote:
If he is using Sitrep, I believe he is in SnD. If he is good, he can get 3 kills and one death per game (via tactical loitering/team work). Not that hard =P. There is also the fact that ammo goes away pretty fast so he changes weapon and eventually dies with the recently picked up weapon.


He was in tdm...
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mmacola
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #142 on Jul 29, 2012, 3:10pm »

Jul 29, 2012, 3:01pm, Brick2urface wrote:

Jul 29, 2012, 2:52pm, mmacola wrote:


No problem if you miss. You aren't 4 feet away from the enemy and a second shot is fairly possible.


As you have seen the hitmarkers happen at pont blank as well. You can stay farther away but again it will be more effective at to take an smg or AR at the ranges where a hitmarker from a pump isn't a big deal.


That is 20 damage. With Damage it would be 4/8. I don't think it would be bad at all, it would just require more aiming. (rewarded with huge range)
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #143 on Jul 29, 2012, 3:15pm »
Perhaps something that would help convince them to buff the shotguns would be if you didn't get range from the specialist bonus. That would also give players a little more incentive to use range instead of damage on shotguns even if they are running specialist.
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #144 on Jul 29, 2012, 3:16pm »

Jul 29, 2012, 2:58pm, Brick2urface wrote:
Jack

Its actually 268 kills and 76 deaths but still wtf?! I have so many questions about what I am seeing. Those are litterally freak stats for the aa12. Seriously. Can you put up some of those gameplays for us? If you don't have a pvr or don't want to upload any clips through elite just put them in your file share so I can use my pvr and get them up for us to see. I want to see wtf is going on here.




I don't have a PVR, sorry. And thanks for counting it out; I probably included C4/MP9 kills and whatnot.

I really think it's more a case of people being bad than me having any extraordinary skill.

I'm playing on Mercenary and only use the AA12 on maps that have really close quarter high traffic areas.

AA12
MP9+RDS
C4
Portable Radar
Scavenger
Assassin
Steady Aim
Specialist
SitRep/Sleight of Hand/Hardline

If I get a MOAB, I'll put it up in my Online Vault. It's mostly a case of knowing where the enemy is going to be and shooting at them as they come around the corner. :)
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Brick2urface
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #145 on Jul 29, 2012, 3:25pm »
Put that 33-2 game on lock down up on your fileshare and I will use my pvr to post it. I have tried to do that as well with sitrep early in specialist unlocks but even when i prefire at people turning the corner people have still been able to knife me or spray me down with rapid fire smgs.
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Brick2urface
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #146 on Jul 29, 2012, 3:29pm »

Jul 29, 2012, 3:15pm, 8bitasplode wrote:
Perhaps something that would help convince them to buff the shotguns would be if you didn't get range from the specialist bonus. That would also give players a little more incentive to use range instead of damage on shotguns even if they are running specialist.


That makes specailist discriminatory towards shotguns, that is not fair. Not many shotgunners don't want to get range from specialist bonus. I do not think that is the way to go.
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #147 on Jul 29, 2012, 3:30pm »

Jul 29, 2012, 3:25pm, Brick2urface wrote:
Put that 33-2 game on lock down up on your fileshare and I will use my pvr to post it. I have tried to do that as well with sitrep early in specialist unlocks but even when i prefire at people turning the corner people have still been able to knife me or spray me down with rapid fire smgs.


It's up in the 1st slot: AA12 31-2 KC Lockdown
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #148 on Jul 29, 2012, 3:31pm »
My gamer tag is Brick2urFace I'll add you so I can see that film.
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Re: Shotgun Balance Discussion
« Reply #149 on Jul 29, 2012, 4:05pm »

Jul 29, 2012, 2:49pm, Brick2urface wrote:
That shotgun would not be very usefull in any ammount of lag.

I disagree. If you have ever used a sniper rifle with a lag of ~100ms you can still do fairly well. Sure, some shots which should have hit will not but most shots still hit their target. This shotgun would be similar to a sniper rifle with spread. Yes, you might miss a few kills if you have high lag but you can still manage.

I absolutely understand your idea that shotguns are their anti-lag weapon. A few weeks ago, I had a ping of 200-300ms which is simply ridiculous. I was using the USAS, steady aim, and range and was able to have a K:D of about 1 in most games. Lag is never this extreme though. The only reason it was that bad for me was that I was on an island in Maine with my xbox hooked up to stolen WiFi from down the street.

Lag makes any weapon worse, especially the more accurate ones. This is a constant and cannot be avoided. obviously weapon design should be tailored to accommodate for this fact but it should not bar an entirely valid option. The plain and simple thing to do when facing extreme lag is don't use this gun. Otherwise it is fine.
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