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Post by wg4f on Nov 13, 2012 19:31:42 GMT -5
What weapon does select fire actually lower damage? I believe it was the Chicom CQB. I'll find out for sure and get back to you Thanks for the effort. The chart is very easy to read. Does the HAMR start at 900 RPM before lowering to 600?
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Post by interficium on Nov 13, 2012 19:37:03 GMT -5
Just came in here to say the SMR doo-doos on the FAL, completely, I have both maxed out currently.
The two hit range on the SMR is -huge- compared to the FAL. This makes a ton of difference. Somebody complained about any penetration causing a 3HK, but the number of times a 3HK will be caused by you being out of range with the FAL in an average game completely dwarfs the number of times a 3HK will be caused by penetration.
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 13, 2012 20:43:57 GMT -5
What weapon does select fire actually lower damage? I believe it was the Chicom CQB. I'll find out for sure and get back to you Does the damage lower from 4 to 5 shot or 3 to 4 shot at close range? I keep getting conflicting reports from people that its a 3 hit kill at default, t though your chart says otherwise. Also, it's RoFis lowered when using select fire, isn't it? I don't really see the point of using select fire anyway, regardless of the rof or damage drop, because the gun hardly has any delay between bursts anyway...
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Nov 13, 2012 20:48:28 GMT -5
Just came in here to say the SMR doo-doos on the FAL, completely, I have both maxed out currently. The two hit range on the SMR is -huge- compared to the FAL. This makes a ton of difference. Somebody complained about any penetration causing a 3HK, but the number of times a 3HK will be caused by you being out of range with the FAL in an average game completely dwarfs the number of times a 3HK will be caused by penetration. Lower firerate cap, poor hipfire, slower aiming, lower magsize, less reserve ammo, slower reloads, and more recoil... for triple the 2hk range. Its shit.
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 13, 2012 20:56:09 GMT -5
How long does it take to max out a gun anyway VS MW3?
Yeah, I really don't understand wtf Treyarch would give them crappier hipfire than regular AR accuracy. Makes absolutely no sense.. That's what Treyarch and IW did on the FAL in MW2 and BO, not the M14 equivalents. And now it's sounding like the worst version of the M14 ever. Worse than BO M14, which IMO was decent. >___>
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Nov 13, 2012 23:41:10 GMT -5
Select Fire does...stuff to the weapon other than make burst and semi auto weapons full auto. It either: 1) Lowers range, or 2) Lowers damage In either case, it causes the gun to take longer to kill. I have not tested this with every gun (that has Select Fire), but it has been observed for at least one Semi-Auto gun so far. wait what? can you prove this? Which semi-auto are you talking about? I already know that it reduces the fire rate on the Chicom and M8A1, and on the FAL and SMR it shoots slower than the semi-auto fire cap. SWAT556 rpm is not altered, not sure what is. But if the damage or range is reduced with select fire, I'm going to be PISSED. Reducing both the damage AND fire rate is way overkill. The burst-mode SWAT-556 and burst-mode Chicom CQB are already 2 of the worst guns in the game. BTW, I sure hope the full-auto doesn't reduce the damage on the Chicom CQB, because it does NOT kill in just 3 bullets in burst mode. a 5 shot minimum would be so pathetic
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Post by pwnsweet on Nov 14, 2012 2:12:49 GMT -5
Select Fire definitely does cause either the range to decrease, the damage to decrease or both on at least one gun in the game. I just forget which one I noticed it on. I will be testing it again and report back later.
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Post by linkinito on Nov 14, 2012 5:49:52 GMT -5
Just came in here to say the SMR doo-doos on the FAL, completely, I have both maxed out currently. The two hit range on the SMR is -huge- compared to the FAL. This makes a ton of difference. Somebody complained about any penetration causing a 3HK, but the number of times a 3HK will be caused by you being out of range with the FAL in an average game completely dwarfs the number of times a 3HK will be caused by penetration. Lower firerate cap, poor hipfire, slower aiming, lower magsize, less reserve ammo, slower reloads, and more recoil... for triple the 2hk range. Its doo-doo. The SMR with Select Fire / Grip / Dual Mags is BEAST.
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Post by pwnsweet on Nov 14, 2012 8:30:58 GMT -5
OK just reporting back, because I know some of you guys want to know. The gun I noticed select fire causing the damage to drop was on the SWAT. I haven't tested select fire on other guns so I can't comment, but on SWAT it definitely resulted in lower damage.
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Post by alexanaxela on Nov 14, 2012 9:45:13 GMT -5
very nice job
what does rapid fire on the scorpion do to the rpm? The guides say it boosts it to 1800 rpm, but that can't be right can it?
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Nov 14, 2012 10:13:40 GMT -5
OK just reporting back, because I know some of you guys want to know. The gun I noticed select fire causing the damage to drop was on the SWAT. I haven't tested select fire on other guns so I can't comment, but on SWAT it definitely resulted in lower damage. oh my god. I've been grinding so much to unlock select fire on the SWAT, the thing is the biggest rage-inducing piece of sh*t in burst mode. I'm at level 7, trying to decide if I want to keep going up to level 10. Is it the max or min damage that gets dropped? Could you also let us know what the new range values are? I'd also be willing to test this with another PC player, because I want to make a video compiling the effects of Select Fire on every weapon in BO2. It would make sense for it to have some other penalty since it does not have a RoF penalty in full-auto. With no penalty it made the SCAR completely pointless. I think it may also get an increase in recoil as well.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 14, 2012 11:12:30 GMT -5
But it costs one more point than the SCAR, so by that merit, it should outclass the SCAR.
I've been using the SIG SWAT and having a much better time then when I was trying to grind the FAL due to my poor trigger finger. Coming from the pre-patch MW3 M16, I find that all shots connect if I ensure a clear shot before firing.
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banana
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Post by banana on Nov 14, 2012 11:17:33 GMT -5
It better have a decent sized range reduction or it will turn overpowered
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Nov 14, 2012 12:48:56 GMT -5
After testing, I have just confirmed that when in full-auto, the SWAT556 has both max dmg AND min dmg reduced. It becomes a 4 to 5 shot kill. Not entirely sure on the range it stops killing in 4, but at this point, it's looking like it literally becomes a Type 25 clone that costs 2 points instead of 1, and comes with 1 less attachment slot. Brilliant.
Typical Treyarch -.-
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Nov 14, 2012 12:52:19 GMT -5
It must have more range. Otherwise it would be just a 3arc fail.
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Nov 14, 2012 13:16:06 GMT -5
It must have more range. Otherwise it would be just a 3arc fail. It is a 3arc fail. They did so much of this kinda stuff in BO1 - remember how Dual Wield affected the damage profile (and other stats) of the Skorpion? I just tested the Type 25, and it appears that the 4 hit kill range is identical to the SWAT556's 4 hit kill range on full-auto. again I dont have a way of producing hard numbers but it seems about 110 for both. I'd love to do more carefully studied tests with another PC player though The 2 main things I've learned about Treyarch: 1. They like clone guns 2. They like useless attachments/guns that just waste game space.
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 14, 2012 13:35:08 GMT -5
So in English, ....summarizing the past ten posts. What's the deal here? Don't use the SWAT? Use the T25 when starting?
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 14, 2012 13:51:33 GMT -5
If you must use the SWAT, don't use full auto. If you must use the SWAT full auto, use the Type 25. remember how Dual Wield affected the damage profile (and other stats) of the Skorpion? DW reduced the Skorpions' damage, yes, but also dramatically increased its range, which without would have fared far worse.
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 14, 2012 14:05:24 GMT -5
If you must use the SWAT, don't use full auto. If you must use the SWAT full auto, use the Type 25. remember how Dual Wield affected the damage profile (and other stats) of the Skorpion? DW reduced the Skorpions' damage, yes, but also dramatically increased its range, which without would have fared far worse. Now we're talking. Thanks. I can't remember, the SWAT is a 3 burst by default? And the other burst rifle is the M8, which is a 4 burst? I haven't looked at this stuff in great detail yet, but it seems like if one is going to have some burst fun, just save up the tokens and spend them on the M8? I'm also still wavering back and forth with the T25 and MTAR. I can't for the life of me figure out which one is better, let alone even feels better. I have been using these two as my AR's for the first 45 games i have played. I wonder if i should just dump them and move on to another AR, or they are fine. I'm level 33 or so.
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 14, 2012 14:19:18 GMT -5
Not sure if I'll spend my token on m8 or ghost, when I get the game....
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 14, 2012 14:27:29 GMT -5
I'm probably going to get awareness. I need to amplify my strong suit.
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Post by Robospy on Nov 14, 2012 14:28:36 GMT -5
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 14, 2012 14:56:21 GMT -5
Sometimes these charts drive me nuts. The above chart shows the MTAR as being more powerful/dmg than the Type 25. 40-24 vs 33-22. But on the game itself, looking at the generic bar charts, they show the Type 95 as being slightly more powerful.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 14, 2012 15:07:13 GMT -5
Because fuck the ingame stats.
Can anyone confirm if the SWAT full auto has less recoil than the Type 25? This could be its only niche. Even if the SWAT full auto had identical recoil to the Type 25 Grip, it could have more versatility by being able to access burst mode for long distance engagements.
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Robospy
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Post by Robospy on Nov 14, 2012 16:11:53 GMT -5
Does the damage only decrease if you're using the Full-Auto mode? Does it change if you swap between Burst Fire and Full-Auto during a match? (I woul assume yes)
Also, I'll bet some auto weapons gain bonuses if you use them in Burst-fire mode.
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Post by kirbyderby on Nov 14, 2012 16:37:20 GMT -5
Does the damage only decrease if you're using the Full-Auto mode? Does it change if you swap between Burst Fire and Full-Auto during a match? (I woul assume yes) Also, I'll bet some auto weapons gain bonuses if you use them in Burst-fire mode. That would be too intelligent a balance decision for CoD. I'm gonna guess the only use for Select Fire on an automatic would be on the AN-94 due to its two-bullet mechanic, but that can be utilised in full-auto as well, so it's almost a moot point.
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Post by brutalonslaught on Nov 14, 2012 17:04:30 GMT -5
Type 25 does theoretically kill faster than the MTAR...
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Nov 14, 2012 18:12:35 GMT -5
Because Foxtrot the ingame stats. Can anyone confirm if the SWAT full auto has less recoil than the Type 25? This could be its only niche. Even if the SWAT full auto had identical recoil to the Type 25 Grip, it could have more versatility by being able to access burst mode for long distance engagements. well, i guess its niche is supposed to be you have a backup short range spray option (since the burst SIG/SWAT sucks for that) still a shitty niche, but a niche nontheless
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Post by pwnsweet on Nov 14, 2012 18:42:07 GMT -5
very nice job The guides say it boosts it to 1800 rpm, but that can't be right can it? \ It's right
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Nov 14, 2012 19:30:04 GMT -5
very nice job The guides say it boosts it to 1800 rpm, but that can't be right can it? \ It's right Sorry if you already answered my question previously, but how was your ROF research method? I mean, 1800rpm is really absurd. The range reduction from that should be like, 80% range
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