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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Nov 14, 2012 13:21:29 GMT -5
The following are the "side effects" of turning a burst weapon into a full-auto weapon:
SWAT 556: Damage: No actual change to any values, but in practicality becomes a 4-5HK as opposed to 3-4HK. Range: Can still kill with 3 shots in barrel-stuff range (literally), but outside of that (any practical range) will be a 4HK. Will take 5 shots starting at 110u (as opposed to 333u in burst mode) Recoil: Significantly increased (centerspeed decrease) Rate of Fire: No change
M8A1: Damage: No change Range: No change Recoil: Significantly increased (centerspeed decrease) Rate of Fire: Reduced from 1200 to 900
Chicom CQB: Damage: No change Range: No change Recoil: Appears unaffected Rate of Fire: Reduced from 1200 to 900
SMR: Damage: No change Range: No change Rate of Fire: Reduced from 450 to 400 Recoil: Increased slightly
FAL: Damage: No change Range: No change Rate of Fire: Reduced from 515 to 450 Recoil: Noticeably increased in BOTH semi-auto AND full-auto mode
Effects of turning a full-auto weapon into a burst weapon: Centerspeed increase/recoil decrease (strategy guide)
Vector: - Becomes 2 round burst - RPM within bursts = 1200 - Burst + Rapid Fire = 1800 rpm. 100% increase in RoF
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 14, 2012 13:44:36 GMT -5
Well, that's disappointing.
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Post by piwanowi on Nov 14, 2012 13:50:10 GMT -5
dumb question, how do you toggle this?
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asasa
True Bro
fuck
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Post by asasa on Nov 14, 2012 14:00:22 GMT -5
Select fire -> horrible idea
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Champ
True Bro
mai ingrish iz gud
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Post by Champ on Nov 14, 2012 15:15:04 GMT -5
Yeah right, select fire on FAL. Like we don't have moded controlers/macroses. P.S. SWAT still pretty good with 4hk.
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Nov 14, 2012 15:44:13 GMT -5
Yeah right, select fire on FAL. Like we don't have moded controlers/macroses. P.S. SWAT still pretty good with 4hk. Because it's a Type 25. Just one that costs 2 points and has one less attachment slot.
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arcanine2009
True Bro
the definitely not obsessed with dragunov guy
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 14, 2012 16:13:46 GMT -5
Can you check if rapid fire really reduces range?
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arcanine2009
True Bro
the definitely not obsessed with dragunov guy
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 14, 2012 16:14:10 GMT -5
Yeah right, select fire on FAL. Like we don't have moded controlers/macroses. P.S. SWAT still pretty good with 4hk. Because it's a Type 25. Just one that costs 2 points and has one less attachment slot. It's type 25 with grip.
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Champ
True Bro
mai ingrish iz gud
Posts: 442
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Post by Champ on Nov 14, 2012 17:07:49 GMT -5
M8 with select fire is 3hk upclose. Too bad I dont have good testing dummy to do more testing.
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Post by volgon on Nov 14, 2012 17:29:01 GMT -5
The M8 with select fire is a pretty nice gun, I think it's definitely the best full auto AR. The 3HK range is fairly small and gets even smaller with the suppressor, but it has a good ROF (better than the MTAR, I think around ~800rpm) and the recoil is upwards like the G36c.
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wwaa
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PC / PS4 / X1
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Post by wwaa on Nov 14, 2012 18:05:18 GMT -5
Through very basic testing I have found the following "side effects" of turning a burst weapon into a full-auto weapon: SWAT 556: Damage: reduced from 3-4HK to 4-5HK very funny those grandpas at 3arc are.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Nov 14, 2012 20:42:05 GMT -5
I just did some testing on xbox. SWAT-556 SF can still kill in 3, but only in barrel stuff range (both with silencer and without). Same with M8A1.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Nov 14, 2012 21:11:44 GMT -5
I wish they would have just balanced SF with RoF. Changing damage/range (without indicating anywhere) is so stupid and counterintuitive. I hate the culture of smoke and mirrors that exists around the weapon mechanics.
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Brick2urface
True Bro
Putting the "laughter" back in "slaughter"
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Post by Brick2urface on Nov 14, 2012 22:53:53 GMT -5
I seriously might have developed a little bit of cancer playing with you guys today. That 870 is so fucking awefull. I tried to play a couple of games without you guys and got my shit pushed in by campers and being instakilled by weapons that dont instakill. It seriously made me ask myself if I suck at games.
Then I went to bf3 and went 90-14 with the spas in that game. I think its just black ops that hates me.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Nov 14, 2012 23:14:11 GMT -5
I used it right when I prestiged and didn't have time to set up my classes in the lobby. Needless to say I dropped it for whatever gun my first victim was carrying virtually every time. I'll try that shit again when the connectivity business is resolved somewhat.
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asasa
True Bro
fuck
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Post by asasa on Nov 14, 2012 23:15:44 GMT -5
I seriously might have developed a little bit of cancer playing with you guys today. That 870 is so Foxtrotting awefull. I tried to play a couple of games without you guys and got my doo-doo pushed in by campers and being instakilled by weapons that dont instakill. It seriously made me ask myself if I suck at games. Then I went to bf3 and went 90-14 with the spas in that game. I think its just black ops that hates me. Can you clarify how BF3 shotguns work for me? I thought they were basically snipers rifles with shotgun skins.
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Post by jackaltornmoons on Nov 14, 2012 23:54:30 GMT -5
I used it right when I prestiged and didn't have time to set up my classes in the lobby. Needless to say I dropped it for whatever gun my first victim was carrying virtually every time. I'll try that doo-doo again when the connectivity business is resolved somewhat. Even using the KSG was a seemingly roll of the die whether or not it would kill someone. I don't foresee getting much shotgunning in for moi. Also. It sucks solo queueing after playing with aids^3 and his crew. I might have to stick to Mercenary and/or Combat Training when you're not around lol.
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Post by volgon on Nov 15, 2012 0:39:45 GMT -5
I seriously might have developed a little bit of cancer playing with you guys today. That 870 is so Foxtrotting awefull. I tried to play a couple of games without you guys and got my doo-doo pushed in by campers and being instakilled by weapons that dont instakill. It seriously made me ask myself if I suck at games. Then I went to bf3 and went 90-14 with the spas in that game. I think its just black ops that hates me. Can you clarify how BF3 shotguns work for me? I thought they were basically snipers rifles with shotgun skins. That's pretty much what they are
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Champ
True Bro
mai ingrish iz gud
Posts: 442
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Post by Champ on Nov 15, 2012 1:29:18 GMT -5
Can you clarify how BF3 shotguns work for me? I thought they were basically snipers rifles with shotgun skins. 4 types of ammo: buckshot, flechette, frag rounds, slugs. Buckshot - pretty much the same as COD, exept they have tight spread when ADS. Also pellets travel forever and you can get hitmarkers across the map, but it will deal like 0.00000001 damage. Flechette - same as buckshot, but more penetration power, little bit more range and less damage. Frags - useless. Slugs - same as sniper shots, exept they have much slower velocity and faster drop off. There are body multiplayers when using slugs. Damage of all the shotguns in the same category is the same. Semi autos/full auto are 2 hk. Pump are 1-2 hk, although they have much faster pump animation than in COD. Now you know.
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Post by josefrees on Nov 15, 2012 1:54:16 GMT -5
Full-Auto FAL needs to be tested. At this point it looks pretty damn good.
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Nov 15, 2012 3:55:25 GMT -5
I just did some testing on xbox. SWAT-556 SF can still kill in 3, but only in barrel stuff range (both with silencer and without). Same with M8A1. hmm, i couldn't seem to produce a 3 hit kill with the SWAT 556 no matter how close I got... I'll have to try that again. Either way, it doesnt make it any better. If you're close enough to get a 3 shot kill, you either knife or get knifed. Outside of pissing range, its a Type 25. I did notice the dismally short 3 shot kill range on the full-auto M8A1, but I thought the range was the same in burst mode (difficult to test a 3HK when you cant shoot less than 4 bullets at once...) but yes, the smoke & mirrors around weapon mechanics does get really annoying. Both studios have been doing a lot of this kinda stuff. Wish they would just be straight up about it. Although, something tells me that if the average player knew exactly what Select Fire did, he probably would never use it. Which probably says something about Treyarch's decisions. What I REALLY wish is that Den would crack open the game files data ;P
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Nov 15, 2012 8:51:55 GMT -5
The SWAT/M8A1 3hk range is actually useful precisely because of the knife. It sucks now. Using an attachment to get better panic hipfire definitely isn't nothing, especially considering the SWAT reloads literally half a second faster and you retain the long range burst option. The SWAT's recoil pattern (vertical only or nearly so) is pretty nice as well.
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banana
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Post by banana on Nov 15, 2012 8:53:12 GMT -5
What is the rate of fire of the m8a1 auto?
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Brick2urface
True Bro
Putting the "laughter" back in "slaughter"
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Post by Brick2urface on Nov 15, 2012 10:02:23 GMT -5
I seriously might have developed a little bit of cancer playing with you guys today. That 870 is so Foxtrotting awefull. I tried to play a couple of games without you guys and got my doo-doo pushed in by campers and being instakilled by weapons that dont instakill. It seriously made me ask myself if I suck at games. Then I went to bf3 and went 90-14 with the spas in that game. I think its just black ops that hates me. Can you clarify how BF3 shotguns work for me? I thought they were basically snipers rifles with shotgun skins. bf3 spas buckshot 18-6 damage X 11 pellets 150 rpm 3 degree spread. One shot kill to about 10 meters. Flechette 12.5-8.4 damage X 11 pellets 150 rpm 2.5 degree spread. frags suck Slugs 100-40 damage one projectile, 150 rpm, will kill with one shot anywhere but the legs out to 15 meters. Kills to the upper chest out to 25 meters. One shot head shot at any range. 3 degree hipspread but when moving slowly or not moving the shot is very likely to hit center of the hipfire reticule. Pinpoint percision ads. Spas with slugs is the best shotgun I have had the pleasure to work with in a game.
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Brick2urface
True Bro
Putting the "laughter" back in "slaughter"
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Post by Brick2urface on Nov 15, 2012 10:28:20 GMT -5
Frags have been kicking my ass They are funny but generally useless because they almost always take 4 shots to kill. At 200 rpm that really sucks. The only really funny thing to do is take support for infinite ammo and put frags on the usas with supression specialization and just lob a few every time you see someone. Makes it almost impossible for them to return any accurate fire for a few seconds. But anyone with a fast killing weapon can easily still hipfire you or slip into cover before you can kill them. I think they nerfed frags too hard.
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Nov 15, 2012 10:33:56 GMT -5
i remember a time i played on 64x seine crossing rush server with a saiga 12 frag after the nerf I was just shooting at windows from 100 metres away, getting multikills within 5-6 shots. It was pretty funny. But yeah theyre still terrible Also brick, did that buckshot buff to 18 do anything meaningfull? I think demize liked my write up at symthics since i pushed for that 18 damage buff Ok so Buckshot and Felchette are actual shotguns... the Slug is just a sniper in disguise? Yes and no. It one hit kills up to 15 metres (2 hit kill for all non-pumps) and you can hit pretty far with it. But they're not perfectly accurate (0.1 degree of spread); they're really slow, like half the velocity of a regular rifle bullet; and you'll need to hit at least twice with these slugs, even in the head. They're pretty much effective up to 100 metres (which is still pretty long in BF3 standards)
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asasa
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fuck
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Post by asasa on Nov 15, 2012 10:35:23 GMT -5
Ok so Buckshot and Felchette are actual shotguns... the Slug is just a sniper in disguise?
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Brick2urface
True Bro
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Post by Brick2urface on Nov 15, 2012 10:51:28 GMT -5
No the increase to 18 damage dropped its pellets to kill in close range by one. Rather meaningless. Flechette still dominates buckshot in all shotguns. Buckshot range is really pathetic. There is not a section of any map in the game where buckshot is more usefull than flechette. You take one step out of a building or the containers on cannals and you are helpless with buck.
Slugs make a poor sniper but a great shotgun. With buck and flechette if you aim at a guys shoulder in close range you won't kill them. With slugs that shot kills them out to 15 meters. You can be less accurate and still get better performance in close range with slugs. That plus 25 meter one shot kills to the torso and infinite range head shots makes the slugs the best shotgun ammo. The only thing is legs have a .9 damage multipier. So hit torso and arms and you are golden.
The pump actions can one shot kill to the head with slugs at any range. They do 40 damage min and have a 2.5 headshot multipier.
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Nov 15, 2012 10:56:57 GMT -5
Hmm, I think buck vs flechette is pretty decent this way. Buck might've needed a bit more range but meh. The most important thing with the small damage buff was that buckshot would actually have a reason to excist, it has its uses now on semis since those fire less pellets
but yeah, slugs are all around superior but I always use the oddbal loadouts. Didn't know *they changed the headshot damage though. They definately didn't kill to the head before
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Brick2urface
True Bro
Putting the "laughter" back in "slaughter"
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Post by Brick2urface on Nov 15, 2012 11:14:01 GMT -5
They kill to the head at any range. The slugs reach min damage of 40 on pumps at 50 meters and I one shot kids all the time off of the crane on canals in normal health. And those shots are around 100 meters, well after the min damage starts.
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