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Post by morriscat on Dec 9, 2012 21:07:47 GMT -5
Hi! I've been lurking around these boards since the first MW came out and I have to say it's by a mile the most useful resource I've been able to find for informed discussion about the COD series. So much so that this is the first time I've really felt like I had a question that just wasn't being answered.
Now, I know the general wisdom is that Claymores Just Suck in Black Ops. Just for some context, I was a big, big fan of claymores in MW1 and MW2. I've been pretty disappointed with how badly they performed compared with Betties (or anything else) in the Black Ops titles, but the Betties served roughly the same purpose, so I didn't mind.
That said, just on a whim this morning I noticed an enemy Betty out on the ground, out in the middle of the road, and to test just how significant the changes from the patch had been, I just ran straight across it. Even though I was using an Assault Rifle, and no Lightweight, it still took so long to trigger that I was completely out of the blast radius before it detonated. I didn't have to dodge, I didn't have to take cover, and I didn't have to hit the deck, I just ignored it and it couldn't hurt me.
I can't help but think that if the ONLY way a Betty can kill someone is if they are a) stupid or b) you pair it with a Shock Charge, that's just not good enough. I shouldn't have to use two pieces of equipment in the same place at the same time to MAYBE kill someone, assuming they don't just hack one or the other of the two, or both.
At that point I started running claymores instead, just for comparison, and I noticed that I was actually getting kills with them somewhat more reliably than I had with Betties, and furthermore wasn't having to pair them with shock charges every time.
Has anybody else tried this?
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Post by UrbaneVirtuoso on Dec 9, 2012 21:26:41 GMT -5
I swear, these Claymores can kill you immediately even if you have Flak Jacket going. I'm quite tempted to use them, but overall I find Betties more useful during objective hotspots; seeing how you can throw them towards a flank, I'd rather do that with ease than risk getting shot to plant a Claymore there.
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GoHarvard
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Post by GoHarvard on Dec 9, 2012 21:53:25 GMT -5
I can't help but think that if the ONLY way a Betty can kill someone is if they are a) stupid or b) you pair it with a Shock Charge, that's just not good enough. Betties aren't always placed out in the open where there's room to go around them and/or trigger them only from the outer part of their detection radius. That's the only way I can sprint past one, I can't sprint over the center of it without dying. Tried it in a custom match. From MW2 to BO2, at times, I've been able to sprint past claymores or betties without dying and without help from a perk. It's random, maybe has to do with latency
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Dec 9, 2012 21:58:11 GMT -5
Betties have utility.
Claymores have reliability.
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bluespark
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Post by bluespark on Dec 10, 2012 6:13:04 GMT -5
Now, I know the general wisdom is that Claymores Just Suck in Black Ops. Just for some context, I was a big, big fan of claymores in MW1 and MW2. I've been pretty disappointed with how badly they performed compared with Betties (or anything else) in the Black Ops titles, but the Betties served roughly the same purpose, so I didn't mind. There were no Betties in Black Ops 1. Furthermore, I don't quite get your point - to me, Claymores in BO1 were the most deadly out of the entire Call of Duty series due to their lightning-fast trigger time. I would say that in Black Ops 2, now that the trigger time of Betties has been nerfed, Claymores will definitely be better in most circumstances (although you can toss Betties while Claymores can only be placed at your feet). I wish people would use more Claymores... I need to get 10 kills by hacking those :/.
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Evan950
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Post by Evan950 on Dec 10, 2012 7:51:10 GMT -5
Betties have utility. Claymores have reliability. true and not true. claymores have to be planted in a special way to always assure a kill. the thing is. when you die from a betty, its because you coudn't crouch in time. when u die from a claymore, its because you didnt see the laser, or you didn't run fast enough
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Dec 10, 2012 9:37:25 GMT -5
Today I saw the first claymore. It didnt kill me because its so god awfully easy to spot when some idiot Snipy Sniper places it RIGHT ON TOP OF THE STAIRS, where the red beams are visible as fuck.
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Post by morriscat on Dec 10, 2012 9:42:20 GMT -5
Its not hard to assume which direction will mre likely yield a kill It's not hard, but is does take some time and forethought, where betties are much more Fire and Forget. I think a lot of people just don't know how to place Claymores properly to make sure people can't just sprint past them.
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Dec 10, 2012 9:59:07 GMT -5
BB`s are good for Fire & Forget tactics or covering your tracks, C-mores would be better for people that need to cover their backs.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Dec 10, 2012 10:34:30 GMT -5
true and not true. claymores have to be planted in a special way to always assure a kill. the thing is. when you die from a betty, its because you coudn't crouch in time. when u die from a claymore, its because you didnt see the laser, or you didn't run fast enough Alright, I'll address reliability. Let's talk perfect placement. In their strongest form...Unseen. Betties? All you have to do is crouch unless they are placed on an incline. Then you might have to drop and hit the ground. Dropped the enemy is a strong state. Claymores? You have to have a completed motion in order to successfully escape a triggered one. You can't drop. You have to run...or you have to recoil yourself....in which case you need incredible timing and precision in your motion. If it is placed around a corner, not only will the claymore's beams be hidden, but it becomes incredibly hard to outrun the range of it. Running, the enemy is in a vulnerable state.
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Post by -3055- on Dec 10, 2012 10:52:08 GMT -5
When I check my corners, it's for enemies. Not claymores. The claymores explode too quickly from its triggered state for me to react in any certain way. In mw3, as long as you kept running, you were fine. No one really ever got kills with it, to be honest.
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Post by morriscat on Dec 10, 2012 11:39:33 GMT -5
Those of you that use Claymores, do you find they get hacked a lot?
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Post by bucket415 on Dec 10, 2012 11:43:01 GMT -5
If you aren't getting kills with your equipment...you're doing it wrong. Place claymores on angles. Angle them in the direction pointing towards where your enemy will try and run past them. Bettie's with shock charges we all know about, but dropping them in small rooms, where there isn't much room to run or in a place where the enemy will have to make a turn, will be most effective.
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Post by anthraxx on Dec 10, 2012 12:55:04 GMT -5
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sh58
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Post by sh58 on Dec 10, 2012 14:20:28 GMT -5
i hope that more people use claymores.
there are 2 claymore related challenges. 1)protected kill - use flak jacket to survive a claymore blast and kill the player who planted it 2)counter trapper - get 10 kills with hacked claymores
i hate challenges where you have to rely on enemies using equipment so its completely out of your control
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Dec 10, 2012 14:21:51 GMT -5
i hope that more people use claymores. there are 2 claymore related challenges. 1)protected kill - use flak jacket to survive a claymore blast and kill the player who planted it 2)counter trapper - get 10 kills with hacked claymores i hate challenges where you have to rely on enemies using equipment so its completely out of your control *Cough Cough* Sitrep pro *Cough Cough*
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Post by anthraxx on Dec 10, 2012 15:29:36 GMT -5
i hope that more people use claymores. there are 2 claymore related challenges. 1)protected kill - use flak jacket to survive a claymore blast and kill the player who planted it 2)counter trapper - get 10 kills with hacked claymores i hate challenges where you have to rely on enemies using equipment so its completely out of your control *Cough Cough* Sitrep pro *Cough Cough* I assume you mean Engineer? And how would that help when people don't use Claymore's in the first place?
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Dec 10, 2012 15:30:34 GMT -5
I am talking about Sitrep pro challenges. 250 equipment destroys is pretty insane.
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Post by Ishbane on Dec 10, 2012 15:39:42 GMT -5
Claymores are foxtrotting dope.
Always replacing bettys with 'em when unlocked.
Also using them to help others complete that "Hack a clay and kill" challenge, which is a biatch when noone is using them.
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Evan950
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Post by Evan950 on Dec 11, 2012 8:54:22 GMT -5
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Post by n3r0s on Dec 11, 2012 9:12:13 GMT -5
I've been a big fan of the Betties both for sniper protection or drop one when someone follows me. (the latest so damn fun kill). However it's som many ways to counter them in Blops2. Maybe I should try Claymores instead. Black Hat must have visible sight to hack right? And I guess the laser beams doesn't count. I was thinking Claymore and Black Hat can be useful for a sniper. When you hear "has been hacked" just press Black Hat fast to hack turn it back. Should that work?
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Post by morriscat on Dec 11, 2012 11:25:56 GMT -5
I've been a big fan of the Betties both for sniper protection or drop one when someone follows me. (the latest so gosh darn golly gee whiz fun kill). However it's som many ways to counter them in Blops2. Maybe I should try Claymores instead. Black Hat must have visible sight to hack right? And I guess the laser beams doesn't count. I was thinking Claymore and Black Hat can be useful for a sniper. When you hear "has been hacked" just press Black Hat fast to hack turn it back. Should that work? The problem with black hat is that 100% of black hat users also run engineer, so assume that they'll get hacked through walls. That said, claymore+ black hat is exactly the combo I'm using for the same reason you mentioned. I've already gotten two kills since yesterday be rehacking my own claymores.
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bluespark
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Post by bluespark on Dec 11, 2012 13:45:00 GMT -5
i hope that more people use claymores. there are 2 claymore related challenges. 1)protected kill - use flak jacket to survive a claymore blast and kill the player who planted it 2)counter trapper - get 10 kills with hacked claymores i hate challenges where you have to rely on enemies using equipment so its completely out of your control I've been waiting match after match for people to use some Claymores... It's a true pain in the behind. Don't even get me started on "Trick Shot"... me running around in the middle of the map with my Riot Shield, Fast Hands + double Combat Axe, frantically looking around to try and spot the RC-XD the enemy team just called in, is a funny sight indeed (funny for everyone except me, that is). I am talking about Sitrep pro challenges. 250 equipment destroys is pretty insane. 250 was actually still somewhat realistic to achieve. Level 6 of the challenge was 750 (if I'm not mistaken).
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Post by anthraxx on Dec 11, 2012 17:56:47 GMT -5
Yeah... it was fine 2 days ago, not sure what happened all of sudden :/ Sorry about that, it really was an epic claymore guide.
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Post by morriscat on Dec 12, 2012 10:06:51 GMT -5
The main thing I've always found with claymores is that you want to try to angle them across an enemy's path, facing in the same direction he's running, i.e. facing away from a door into the room, rather than right in the doorway facing outward. It's much harder to see the claymore and/or sprint through its activation zone that way.
That said, I've noticed from some Killcams over the past couple days that the activation time for Claymores seems a lot quicker than it used to be, like 500ms maybe? I haven't seen a reference on that, has anybody gotten the real number?
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Post by anthraxx on Dec 12, 2012 14:37:29 GMT -5
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adw1983
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Post by adw1983 on Dec 12, 2012 18:01:53 GMT -5
My standard techniques:
Rushing: Betties. They are thrown claymores. Ducking does not save you from the exploding car next to my betty.
Defending: Claymores. They are, indeed, more reliable. Jumping doesn't save you from a claymore, like ducking saves you from a betty. Nothing -- NOTHING can save you from the exploding car I rigged my claymore to blow up.
Claymore versus engineer: Place a claymore facing the next, and the first will detonate the second, killing him.
Claymore versus flak jacket: Place both claymores in aproximately the same spot.
...
Engineer is EXTREMELY good however. It's just absurd. However, shock charges in the CEILING helps guarantee claymore kills because nobody ever looks up, and if they do look up they may not see the claymore on the ground, standing in it while they shoot the noisy shock charge.
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Post by morriscat on Dec 12, 2012 18:08:02 GMT -5
My standard techniques: ... Nothing -- NOTHING can save you from the exploding car I rigged my claymore to blow up. Versus engineer: Place a claymore facing the next, and the first will detonate the second, killing him. ... Engineer is EXTREMELY good however. It's just absurd. If they have Engineer, they probably have a Black Hat too. The best you can reliably do about an engineer is pay real close attention to the notification of your gear getting hacked so you don't get blindsided.
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Post by palladium on Dec 13, 2012 5:11:25 GMT -5
i hope that more people use claymores. there are 2 claymore related challenges. 1)protected kill - use flak jacket to survive a claymore blast and kill the player who planted it 2)counter trapper - get 10 kills with hacked claymores i hate challenges where you have to rely on enemies using equipment so its completely out of your control These are still the dumbest things to base a challenge on. Just like thrown back grenade kills (unless you can toss a teammates or your own?). I'm almost 8th prestige and I have seen maybe 10 people using claymores. Not this prestige, the whole time. If they insist on enemy equipment dependent challenges don't base them on a level 53 out of 55 unlock, that's just annoying and stupid.
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