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 Author | Topic: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power? (Read 5,406 times) |
ilikev8
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|  | Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Thread Started on Dec 24, 2009, 7:54pm » | |
The FAL doesn't need Stopping Power so I want to use something like Hardline instead but the FAL sucks at close range so I want a shotgun to complement it, does the Spas-12 do fine without Stopping Power?
I would figure that Steady Aim would increase damage of the Shotguns since the hipfire spread is tightened and therefore more pellets would be clustered more into the target.
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individual
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #1 on Dec 24, 2009, 8:25pm » | |
I think the FAL sucks period, since its strength is supposed to be that it's a 2-shot kill which matters most at close range... At long range, recoil is a problem.
Stopping Power is ideal for all the shotguns, because it increases the range that they will be a 1-shot kill, same as with steady aim.
Personally, I prefer the Striker (with or without SP). It's often a 2-shot kill, but the first hit stuns and blinds the person enough that they can't return fire.
The SPAS-12 has more range than the Striker, but much slower rate of fire... It's better if you don't plan on missing the first shot.
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acidsnow
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #2 on Dec 24, 2009, 10:35pm » | |
Overall it's a tough choice between the 1887 and the SPAS-12 as the two contenders for best overall shotgun.
The SPAS-12 has a faster attack rate, but a wider pellet spread.
The 1887has a slower attack rate, but a tighter pellet spread.
Both weapons have essentially the same attack range and reload rate and fire 8 pellets. Both deal 200+ dmg at point blank range, and both only need to land 2 hits at their greatest range to guarantee a kill (sometimes 3 in a worst case scenario for the SPAS-12). Neither weapon needs Stopping Power, but when dealing with short range weapons it never hurts to add a few extra feet of killing distance.
Both weapons require a low amount of player skill to get 1 hit kill, and both are relatively evenly matched for effective combat capabilities. It comes down to player preference: faster attack speed with a larger bullet spread, or slower attack speed for a tighter bullet spread.
Keep in mind that FMJ does not function on the SPAS-12 due to an oversight by IW (it needs patching). Also the SPAS-12 does not benefit from a Grip, because it will already be re-centered for the next shot before it can fire again (the grip just reduces the players perception of on screen view-kick).
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effingee
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #3 on Dec 24, 2009, 11:31pm » | |
How about throwing a master-key on the FAL? Is swapping to it faster than swapping to a SPAS?
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acidsnow
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #4 on Dec 25, 2009, 3:26am » | |
Dec 24, 2009, 11:31pm, effingee wrote:| How about throwing a master-key on the FAL? Is swapping to it faster than swapping to a SPAS? |
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Swapping to the Masterkey takes ~0.7 seconds, swapping to the other shotguns takes ~1.3 secs. (times are totally estimated from my exp)
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #5 on Dec 25, 2009, 6:03am » | |
If damage values are correct, then the SPAS-12 would be helped by Stopping Power, but the Model 1887 would not be affected at all due to 35-35 damage.
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talon1579
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #6 on Dec 25, 2009, 7:58am » | |
[quote author=acidsnow board=general thread=626 post=7427 time=1261712119]Overall it's a tough choice between the 1887 and the SPAS-12 as the two contenders for best overall shotgun.
I'd say the M1014 wins hands-down. It fires faster than the striker, yes it may only have a 4 shot clip but it normally kills in one,and is very quick to reload with slieght of hand.
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chyros
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #7 on Dec 25, 2009, 8:28am » | |
Dec 25, 2009, 7:58am, talon1579 wrote:[quote author=acidsnow board=general thread=626 post=7427 time=1261712119]Overall it's a tough choice between the 1887 and the SPAS-12 as the two contenders for best overall shotgun.
I'd say the M1014 wins hands-down. It fires faster than the striker, yes it may only have a 4 shot clip but it normally kills in one,and is very quick to reload with slieght of hand. |
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...but it has very short range  .
I think the shotguns are quite interestingly balanced. I've made massive killing sprees with all of them except the Rangers so I can't really make my mind up, I think they're all beast.
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talon1579
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #8 on Dec 25, 2009, 8:40am » | |
yeah but tbh who uses a shotgun above a 5 metre range? If you're gonna do that consistently you'd use dual G18s
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mw0swedeking
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #9 on Dec 25, 2009, 11:50pm » | |
FAL is the ultimate skill weapon...
...because it is completely overshadowed by any other assault rifle and many smgs
I say use a pistol, (I like the USP or M9 silenced, but the Magnums good as well because it doesn't need SP), it swaps fast and it means whichever gun you are using it's semi auto so it feels similar.
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xg08zero
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #10 on Dec 26, 2009, 2:04am » | |
I can't stand the auto-shotties, I loves the SPAS-12. I mean...what's the point of having a larger capacity and fire rate when it takes 2-3 shots to kill instead of one with the SPAS (not always the case obviously, but SPAS def has the strongest ttk, regardless of it's slow rpm - ttk is what matters)
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toad
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #11 on Dec 28, 2009, 10:19am » | |
Right! I've used the 1887 a few times now, as I unlocked the Akimbo's before I presitiged, also unlocked it yesterday. WTF!? For me, it's absolutely useless. Could it be a bug? I was using it with stopping power too, and it was almost impossible for me to get a kill with it. If they were even half the range I could kill with the Spas-12, they wouldn't die in one hit. I even shot a couple of enemies from almost point blank range, and it still didn't OHK! I just don't get it...
BTW, the Spas-12 doesn't *need* stopping power, but it loves it. Range is very impressive.
Question, I'm sure I read somehere on here that the Spas-12's bullet spread doesn't narrow when you ADS, even though you can see the crosshair close like it does with any weapon... Is this true?
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #12 on Dec 28, 2009, 10:43am » | |
The Spas is great in a close range 1v1 situation, however in the event of their being more than one opponent, it's slow fire rate can cause deaths.
This is where other options have the edge.
On the initial topic, does it need stopping power? Not at all, and unless you feel your primary is going to benefit from it, then go for an alternative perk.
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acidsnow
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #13 on Dec 28, 2009, 11:01am » | |
ALL of yesterday I dedicated about 8 hours of MW2 with the SPAS-12, claymores and flash bangs - I can now confirm that it does NOT need SP! ...80% of the time I killed them in 1 hit. I went with Scavenger, Hardline, Ninja, and extended-mags. I played domination for about 4 hours then S&D for 4, and in 80% of those games I was the #1 player in the game.
UAV/counterUAV/Predator ... my highest kill streak was 11, not too amazing, but considering I didn't have a Coldblood or a silenced shotty I did fine.
For 3 hours I used Lightweight, and found it to be pretty good, but then I switched to Hardline and found that getting UAV faster was a lot more useful for myself and the team; especially considering most people DON'T use UAV as a killstreak these days. I don't think Lightweight is a very productive perk.
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toad
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #14 on Dec 28, 2009, 12:00pm » | |
SP really does extend the range of the Spas-12. Honest guv!
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acidsnow
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #15 on Dec 28, 2009, 5:35pm » | |
Dec 28, 2009, 12:00pm, toad wrote:| SP really does extend the range of the Spas-12. Honest guv! |
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Only by about ~7%, nothing worth writing home to mom about. I'd pass on SP and use either: CB, LW, HL.
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toad
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #16 on Dec 29, 2009, 3:38am » | |
Nah. I'd say it's at least a third more distance you can get a kill from.
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ssog
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #17 on Dec 30, 2009, 6:36am » | |
Dec 29, 2009, 3:38am, toad wrote:| Nah. I'd say it's at least a third more distance you can get a kill from. |
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It's not. I did the math for the CoD4 shotguns once, and it really amounted to about an extra 10% range. Maybe if I'm less lazy sometime I'll run the numbers for CoD6, but I'd imagine it's very much the same.
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spifnar
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #18 on Dec 30, 2009, 10:37am » | |
Wait, I'm a bit lost here. Are we talking about SP increasing range by:
Increased distance at which the shotgun will deal any damage (ie, the opposite of what a silencer does)
or
Increases the distance at which the shotgun is likely to OHK due to needing one less pellet to kill?
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #19 on Dec 30, 2009, 11:10am » | |
The latter only. It increases the range you can still do X damage, but does not increase the range where the pellets vanish at all.
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acidsnow
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #20 on Dec 30, 2009, 11:36am » | |
Dec 30, 2009, 10:37am, spifnar wrote:Wait, I'm a bit lost here. Are we talking about SP increasing range by:
Increased distance at which the shotgun will deal any damage (ie, the opposite of what a silencer does)
or
Increases the distance at which the shotgun is likely to OHK due to needing one less pellet to kill? |
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No actual range is added, thus only the range at which a OHK is probable increases. It might seem insignificant but when playing 30HP mode, using SP on a weapon like the MP5k can add enough damage to make that OHK more probable (thus increasing your range).
The attached pic of the SPAS-12' is courtesy of Snakex's damage chart.
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acidsnow
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #21 on Dec 30, 2009, 11:44am » | |
In this pic I've drawn a GREEN line along the 30 damage line, this is the amount of damage that's needed for one pellet to kill in 30HP mode. As you can see from the pic, when you don't use SP you're wasting almost 1/4th of the shotguns range (assuming all the other pellets miss). But when you do use SP you utilize almost the entire range of the weapon.
Note that the minimum damage of the SPAS-12 is 20, and with stopping power that goes up to 28, thus it'll still require 2 pellets to kill your target in 30HP mode at its maximum range. But in reality you're always going to get a OHK because no one is precise enough to have a pellet hit at it's maximum range and only deal 28 damage. ...Adding stopping power gives the player 23.6% more range to get a OHK in 30HP mode.
This discussion is NOT an endorsment of SP for the SPAS-12. It does NOT need stopping power! I suggest using a different perk, because (form my experience) 4 out of 5 shots will be a OHK!
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mw0swedeking
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #22 on Dec 30, 2009, 8:07pm » | |
the only way I've been able to effectively use the Spas is to pop out from cover, pop back to reload, repeat. Otherwise, you are constantly caught with your pants down.
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acidsnow
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #23 on Dec 30, 2009, 10:44pm » | |
Dec 30, 2009, 8:07pm, mw0swedeking wrote:| the only way I've been able to effectively use the Spas is to pop out from cover, pop back to reload, repeat. Otherwise, you are constantly caught with your pants down. |
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That's a very smart way to play, there's nothing wrong with being a "popper," I play that wall all the time.
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mw0swedeking
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #24 on Dec 31, 2009, 12:46am » | |
For sure, I'm just trying to point out that if you get caught between cover you might be in trouble with the spas.
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cptmacmillan
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #25 on Dec 31, 2009, 9:14am » | |
Quote:| the only way I've been able to effectively use the Spas is to pop out from cover, pop back to reload, repeat. Otherwise, you are constantly caught with your pants down. |
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Maybe against painkillers but otherwise they shouldn't survive the first shot.
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acidsnow
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #26 on Dec 31, 2009, 11:09am » | |
Dec 31, 2009, 12:46am, mw0swedeking wrote:| For sure, I'm just trying to point out that if you get caught between cover you might be in trouble with the spas. |
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It's worth knowing that I tested the M1014 with FMJ (as it deals the same damage as the SPAS) and that through a 'standard' brick wall at point blank range the enemy target on the other side did not die! Thus if you intend to get kills though walls with the SPAS, then you'll need to be using SP, but even then at 1/2 distance it may take 2 or 3 hits though a brick wall (because not all pellets hit).
...So unless you play 30HP mode, you might as well just forgo FMJ on the SPAS all together - and just be a 'popper.' Note that FMJ still does not work on the SPAS-12 (IW still needs to patch it).
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Indy_Bones
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #27 on Dec 31, 2009, 11:20am » | |
Dec 31, 2009, 11:09am, acidsnow wrote:| though a 'standard' brick wall at point blank range the enemy target on the other side did not die! |
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I should certainly hope they didn't.
There's no way a shotgun should be a OHK through solid brick, even 2-3 hits is pushing it unless the location is virtually the same.
About the only thing that should be getting OHK's through something that solid should be the Barrett.
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lukulas
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #28 on Jul 5, 2010, 6:47pm » | |
Lightweight is underrated. If youre using marathon with a shotgun, you MUST use lightweight as well. Thing is, you dont get enough time to shoot after runnin' without lightweight pro + it gives xtra speed, getting you in range of your enemy faster.
(Lightweight pro is faster aimin' after runnin')
Atleast for me the only thing that makes me lose short range fights is that I get shot before I can shoot, cause I always run with marathon
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Den
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| | Re: Does the Spas-12 need Stopping Power?
« Reply #29 on Jul 5, 2010, 7:10pm » | |
Nothing needs Stopping Power.
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