wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jan 9, 2013 14:19:34 GMT -5
PreludeWe have already had some good loadout discussion threads. The reason why I am starting yet another one (and maybe even a series of them) is to see whether having a clear focus can produce even more interesting discussions. Today's topic: try hard classes Why talking about "try hard"First, what I mean by "try hard": this is the type of classes to use when facing intense opposition and you need every bit of help you can get from loadouts: your best performing weapon with the most powerful attachments, coupled with perks that give you best advantage in a gun fight, (optionally) plus the deadliest equipments. For mediocre players like me, such classes are very important. When facing opponents with stronger skill, I rely on my loadout superiority to make up for the skill gap to (hopefully) win the gun fight. For advanced players, such classes are probably unnecessary in pub lobbies. However, if you play Leagues then I imagine that all of your classes there fall into this category. As always, I am starting this thread mainly to learn from others. I'll offer my 2 cents first, only for the purpose of kicking off the conversation. Try hard primary weaponsFor primary, I think that the majority of the bros would agree that SMG is the dominant weapon class choice. 870 and some ARs are also contenders, but won't be as versatile. What SMGs are the best choices? For me the top choices are either PDW or MSMC. In comparison, MP7 and Vector feel weaker in Face Off duels against them, Skorpion has severe range limitations (feels more like a shotty), and Chicom is harder to use effectively. What attachments? IMHO there are 4 "try hard" SMG attachments to choose from: LS, QD, Stock, and LB: - As suggested by several threads on this board, Stock is the top choice and best combined with lightweight;
- QD vs. LS seem to be a matter of personal preference.
- LB is normally not a popular attachment choice, but can be vital in try hard classes. It extends the 3HK range of PDW and MSMC and can give you just the edge you need in a close gun fight.
For PDW, I will go with either 2 or 3 attachments. if 3: Stock + QD + LB. For MSMC, I go with 2 + KAP-40 w/EM. Try hard secondary weaponsIf you use PDW, a secondary is not a must have. For MSMC however, it is highly recommended. The best choice here has to go to KAP-40. The 3HK 900+ RPM auto pistol, with 0.1 ADS time, is the easiest to use and trumps almost all primary weapons in CQC. The best attachment seems to be EM. Try hard equipmentsFor lethal I have to say C4. It adds a whole new dimension of choices in face-off duel. For tactical, concussion / shock / TI. Try hard perk considerationsPerk 1: Besides the obvious consideration of using Ghost to counter UAV: lightweight is almost a must have. You need that extra speed for chasing down wounded enemies, escaping from desperate situations, and strafing during the "dance of death" in face-off duels. Flak Jacket needs to be seriously considered to counter lethals, especially C4. Perk 2: Toughness helps ADS gunfight tremendously. It is my top choice. I also like to go crazy on C4 by doing Danger Close + 2 C4 + Fast Hands. The second C4 can produce surprising results because almost nobody expects that. Perk 3: Dexterity is always a popular choice. If you use Stock and prefer ADS walk however, it can be omitted. Tac Mask is my favorite. It reduces one dimension of concerns on your mind: getting stunned or shocked.
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Post by Judge_St3vo on Jan 9, 2013 14:37:08 GMT -5
My try hard class:
MSMC w/ quickdraw and emags (or PDW with quick draw and stock) Perks: Flak Jacket, Toughness, Tac Mask, Dexterity Tactical Insertion
Switch between equipping a tac-45 or c4 for my final pick 10 slot.
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Post by wantonRULE on Jan 9, 2013 14:38:01 GMT -5
haha, i actually have 1 class called 'try-hard' that i use when i play against good competition:
Vector + Suppressor + EMags [3] Ghost+Flak Jacket [3] Toughness [1] Tactical Mask + Dexterity [3]
This class counters a majority of the usual players i have a tough time dealing with. Perk 1 choices are obvious for survivability.
Perk 2 choice is to keep a level field against other good players using smg+toughness. I use to run scavenger but I've notice that against the run-gun good players I lose my engagements because they stay on target and beat me because they have toughness.
Perk 3 choices are based on the fact that I hate shock chargers/stuns so tactical mask is my primary perk 3. I chose dexterity again due to the fact that I lose close 1 v 1 challenges because i've noticed that the other player was able to out-hipfire me with an smg before I can even react. So this is again like Toughness, to counter the dexterity and level the playing field.
Another class I have I use scavanger+toughness with emp grenades to troll the target finder+autofal/lmg campers.
My main class:
Vector + grip + extd mags hardline/flak jacket scavenger+toughness tactical mask c4 emp/smoke
*edit: I know that all smg > vector but thats my baby and i love it!
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Jan 9, 2013 14:44:11 GMT -5
[SMG here] Laser+Silencer KAP-40 Ghost Scavenger & Toughness Dexterity C4
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Jan 9, 2013 15:07:44 GMT -5
I have started to fall in love with a very specific perk/equipment combination. If you watch any of my games (on a team of bros) in the past 2 weeks I can guarantee you will see some form of this set-up with very minor changes throughout. I do have a toughness class that does not use a setup like that, but for now I will be dealing with this loadout that I am now wholeheartedly familiar with.
Dumien's Wallbreaker and Team Support set-up
Lightweight+Hardline Fast Hands Dexterity C4 Tac Insert Total point cost: 7
Now this is for non KC/SnD/FFA/TDM gamemodes, but I find it to be supremely effective in achieving my primary goal for the team.
My role for dom: I really enjoy getting in the face of enemies. So, how do I apply that to dom tactics?
First, I will go over my role for maps where we are only capping 2 flags. Even if I am using an LMG you will see me running gung ho into enemy spawns and "safe zones." If the enemy can't get to the places necessary to launch an assault on B, they can never get to B. If the enemy can never get a majority on their side, how can they ever hope to overwhelm my side? My self proclaimed job is to forge this chaos on the enemy side, while my teammates establish order on our side. If we start with the "bad" side of the map, I take it upon myself to flip the spawns for my team. This generally means hard flanking and tac inserting in enemy spawn, or some sort of path clearing stunt.
Second, we have the triple capping strategy. This is a little harder to ascertain, but I try to be a "rapid response" sort of player. I try to roll from spawn to spawn capping flags as I go. Generally the toughness/non TI class is better for this, but TIs do help in holding out a flag by yourself.
Perks and Scorestreaks:
To discuss why I like hardline, I will need to discuss my favorite "try-hard" killstreak loadouts for dom.
I enjoy running low pointstreaks, with my highest streak being a VSAT (to boost more defensive or reserved teammates). So the complimentary streak set-up looks something like this depending on the lobby:
Setup 1: UAV->CUAV->VSAT vs. a normal team Setup 2: UAV->HK->CUAV vs. a competitive team (outside of try-hard setups I like Guardian->Sentry->VSAT and UAV->CUAV->Death Machine. For SnD/HQ I like UAV->RC->HK)
About the streaks:
I really like the top one the most for use pruposes, because VSAT allows me to capitalize on strong streaks and help my teammates build to their VSATs + higher streaks. The UAV helps out my teammates even if I am not playing my strongest or if I am struggling vs our current oppositon. The CUAV forces the enemy team to play blind, one of my personal least favorite things to do. In this game sound is less important and so the radar becomes the main method of obtaining extra information about spawns. imo it is one of the stronger low streaks in the game.These three are also constantly feeding me points the more my teammates are using them, so there is a synergism there. HK is a filler in the 2nd set-up and acts as an 11th slot (anti-streak launcher).
About the Setups:
1 is all about utility. It allows me to support my team at both the low end and the high end of the spectrum, and so it can be used on a smart player setup against both great players and non-so-great players.
2. assumes that you are not going to be able to get a VSAT. If you obtain a 1200 points streak with #1 you are getting 1 UAV 1 CUAV and 1 VSAT. On #2 you are getting 2 UAV 2 HK 2 CUAV. imo that VSAT is going to be much more worthwhile than the difference (1 UAV + 2 HK + 1 CUAV). So in order to use this class you have to acknowledge beforehand that you might not get the VSAT this game.
Also as a nice bonus, this scorestreak setup will also net you more xp and score than #1. When I play solo KC/dom I enjoy running this setup just for leveling up purposes.
Hardline:
Hardline suits opposite ends of the spectrum in playstyles. It supports defensive players trying to land big scorestreaks and it supports highly offensive players (such as myself) in obtaining lower scorestreaks. I find Lighweight to be almost necessary in dom, so I feel like my second tier 1 perk needs more defending. Flak Jacket is great, but I am providing a service to the entire team with my streaks. If I can eek out a few more points to get that UAV/CUAV/VAST up I can give my team the momentum it needs to steam through. Flak Jacket is great for objective play and landing on Bdom, but often you will find me skirting around Bdom, defending it, and jumping on at the last second or 2. CUAV countermands any thought about the need of ghost and I never use blindeye.
Fast Hands:
I love this perk. Tac inserts become much much less attractive without this perk. If I am running toughness you can bet I WILL NOT be running a tac insert. Every death you have you plant another tac and you waste another few precious moments. Take all your deaths in a heated dom match...that time adds up. Also, I love throwing back grenades. It happens almost every match...seriously. There are so many uncooked grenades flying everywhere and they are so easy to spot. This perk has warranted its extended stay as my most used tier 2 perk even without the use of a secondary. Switching to the combat knife for that 102 movement speed and boosted sprint is amazing.
Dexterity: Wins gunfights.That is all. Fine, that isn't all. Tac Mask gives dex stiff competition. However, I forgo tac mask for the same reason I forgo flak jacket. I am trying to mess the enemy up as much as possible. I am trying to push them out of their spots...I might not always be the one on the objective (the one needing to worry about stuns). Dex wins you gunfights in the same way toughness does, but it lets you get the precious first shot faster than the opponent can.
C4: It has been talked to death why this thing is amazing. I won't talk about it anymore. The utility is phenomenal and the potential for wallbreaking and defends is incredible.
Tac: In dom you either need to be running a tac set-up, a slayer/toughness set-up, or a setup to counter enemy tacs (emps/engineer). Tac lets you get the job done. It lets you be relentless, whether you are a great players or a non-so-great player.
The last 3 points: The thing I love about this set-up is that it lets me be a creature of habit. This thing doubles as an "all-purpose" setup. ...Quite literally. Here is what I mean
SMGs: SMG+stock+long barrel/silencer/Exmags LMGs: LMG+Laser Sight+QD/RF/Stock ARs: AR+QD/LS+Stock Shottys: Shotty+LS+Kap40
As you can see I am going for speed and the ability to win gunfights in the same vein as dexterity. LS/Stock/QD all let me do this and are the attachments that I value the highest for the set-up.
P.S. I have already and will continue to hold that LMGs are the best wallbreaking class of weapon in the game. I prefer them to most SMGS and I hold them in the same regard as the PDW (SMG/LMG hybrid in spirit). Running the second killstreak set-up there is a high chance that I will get all of my streaks without reloading...a huge benefit to the spirit of this setup.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jan 9, 2013 16:05:35 GMT -5
Ohi.....
QBB TF, Silencer
Blind Eye Cold blooded and scavenger Dexterity and Engineer
Perk 2 and 3 greeds
My logic: QBB shoots so quick... TFinder because it's OP and sexxy... silencer because is keeps me off the map
BEye to avoid pesky player controled killbots Scavenger because the QBB burns through ammo, cold blooded to keep me off TFinders that 99% of people use Engineer to prevent dying from betties, Dexterity to make my life easier using an LMG.
EDIT: Or a similar setup would be for the LSAT, but 3 attachments (TF, sil, and QDH/Stock/Grip) and no scavenger or perk 2 greed, but another attachment and add primary gunfighter
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natalie
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Post by natalie on Jan 9, 2013 16:26:34 GMT -5
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GoHarvard
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It's not that serious.
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Post by GoHarvard on Jan 9, 2013 16:33:20 GMT -5
FAL (SF + Stock + Suppressor)
Flak Jacket Scavenger + Toughness Tactical Mask
Perk 2 Greed, Primary Gunfighter
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Jan 9, 2013 16:34:51 GMT -5
FAL (SF + Stock + Suppressor) Flak Jacket Scavenger + Toughness Tactical Mask Perk 2 Greed, Primary Gunfighter I dont think it gets much more Tryhard then that.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jan 9, 2013 17:11:54 GMT -5
Question:
I noticed choices of AR or LMG with TF+ attachments and light or no backup weapon. You don't have the problem of constantly being rushed and flanked by SMG players?
I found such classes great for the overwatch play style, but extremely vulnerable to in-your-face SMG rushing. They have slow movement speed, slow draw time, and difficult aim tracking in close range, all spell "deaths" in a strafing gun fight.
Keep in mind that by "try hard" I did not mean your "best performing" classes. I am trying to see what classes you pull out when going gets tough, really really tough.
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Jan 9, 2013 17:18:18 GMT -5
I actually have one MK48 class without anything but attachments and perks. MK48 Suppresor, Lazor and RF LW/FJ Toughness Dexterity
I have no problem in CQC at all. Pretty much hipfire people to death, ADS if they are outside spit range. It is more than capable of long range still, if you are willing to pull down on the stick a bit(good class for headshots).
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jan 9, 2013 17:21:16 GMT -5
I actually have one MK48 class without anything but attachments and perks. MK48 Suppresor, Lazor and RF LW/FJ Toughness Dexterity I have no problem in CQC at all. Pretty much hipfire people to death, ADS if they are outside spit range. It is more than capable of long range still, if you are willing to pull down on the stick a bit(good class for headshots). This class I can totally agree with for "try hard". RF/LS/LW/FJ/Toughness/Dexterity all scream for that :-)
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Jan 9, 2013 17:23:23 GMT -5
I usually pull it out to have some lol!fun running around on Slums hip-firing people to death. But it works pretty damn well if you want to be serious too.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Jan 9, 2013 17:39:55 GMT -5
Well you've seen me rush with the LMGs witty...they aren't really outclassed in CQC. Dex really really helps them out. The LMGs comparatively have great TTKs when put up against the SMGs. This can be boosted by RF (an attachment the SMGs cannot make use of) when used by the QQB/MK48. Drop shotting the LMGs have a better hipsread than SMGs...little things like that make them attractive to me for use in CQC. In this game there is more to the LMGs than capacity, they reward the player that is prepared for the enemy and is able to mitigate the relatively minor costs for its use (slow ADS + slower movement). Marco mentions the QBB w/ TF+Silencer. The QBB in particular is devastating in CQC and is one of the better uses of the Silencer in the game. P.S. The setup I mentioned IS my tryhard class..and yeah it is the setup I use most of all. Part of that personal honor thing I mentioned in that other thread of yours.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jan 9, 2013 17:43:46 GMT -5
Well you've seen me rush with the LMGs witty...they aren't really outclassed in CQC. Dex really really helps them out. The LMGs comparatively have great TTKs when put up against the SMGs. This can be boosted by RF (an attachment the SMGs cannot make use of) when used by the QQB/MK48. Drop shotting the LMGs have a better hipsread than SMGs...little things like that make them attractive to me for use in CQC. In this game there is more to the LMGs than capacity, they reward the player that is prepared for the enemy and is able to mitigate the relatively minor costs for its use (slow ADS + slower movement). Marco mentions the QBB w/ TF+Silencer. The QBB in particular is devastating in CQC and is one of the better uses of the Silencer in the game. Good to know. I have not played with any LMGs and probably won't be until a few prestiges later. Such usages are something I did not think of. Out of curiosity: if you play against yourself, one with LMG and the other with SMG, do you consider it an even fight? Another way to define the "try hard" in my mind is this: a class is not try-hard if it does not past the above test :-)
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Jan 9, 2013 18:02:57 GMT -5
Out of curiosity: if you play against yourself, one with LMG and the other with SMG, do you consider it an even fight? haha....good question. It depends. At CQC it is a fight between a stationary drop shot hipfirer and a moving strafe ADSer. This can go either way and goes to the better predictor. At mid-longer range the LMG me wins every time. However, when it comes down to it, CoD isn't just 1 v 1 fights (me vs myself). It is 1 v 2, 1 v 3, and 1v4 fights. LMGs have the capacity to keep going, something that SMGs barring the PDW lack. For example... In other games the P90 was never the most popular gun, yet in this game its incarnation is. Why do you think that is? Capacity in a world of low TTKs is a very powerful thing. It is why most pick the PDW over the MSMC. P.S. one of the most cool "try-hard" things you can do with LMGs that can't be done with SMGs is lie prone on BDOM during a cap attempt (take slums for example) and just lay suppressive down fire on the middle use mind bulletses.
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richardj
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Post by richardj on Jan 10, 2013 4:02:57 GMT -5
I don't have one try-hard class. I guess I have a couple depending on what the other team is doing. Most often, if my team is getting wiped, it appears like they are just all over the map all at once and there are UAVs galore (go figure). Other times, they are camped in and engaging in tactical mind bullet warfare which makes rushing impossible.
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Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Jan 10, 2013 7:15:41 GMT -5
When I need to get a lot of kills quickly... PDW + Stock + Lightweight + other perks depending on the playlist. No secondaries or equipment.
Otherwise, my tacticool serial engagement extraordinaire class is a Skorpion +Suppressor +Fast Mags +Target Finder (Ghost, Scav, Engineer or Dex) with C4 and a Blackhat or a Shock Charge.
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wwaa
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Post by wwaa on Jan 10, 2013 7:25:24 GMT -5
First, what I mean by "try hard": this is the type of classes to use when facing intense opposition and you need every bit of help you can get from loadouts Then my choice is to invest in primary weapon: [5] AN-94, Stock, Grip, QD, Gunfighter [or Ext Magz/TF instead of sth or LMG] [3] Ghots, Lightweigt, Wildcard [1] Toughness [1] Dexterity
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asasa
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fuck
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Post by asasa on Jan 10, 2013 9:36:22 GMT -5
Lightweight seems like an odd choice when Flak Jacket and Tac Mask are almost needed.
I havent really been able to make myself a "Tryhard" class yet, because I always find myself a point short of whatever class I'm making
But it would probably involve an AN94, Stock, and Dexterity to start.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jan 10, 2013 9:36:44 GMT -5
Question: I noticed choices of AR or LMG with TF+ attachments and light or no backup weapon. You don't have the problem of constantly being rushed and flanked by SMG players? I found such classes great for the overwatch play style, but extremely vulnerable to in-your-face SMG rushing. They have slow movement speed, slow draw time, and difficult aim tracking in close range, all spell "deaths" in a strafing gun fight. Keep in mind that by "try hard" I did not mean your "best performing" classes. I am trying to see what classes you pull out when going gets tough, really really tough. First off, I play 90% TDM. Secondly, the QBB LMG shoots something like 900 or 950 RPM, which is equal or superior to some SMG's. So if a SMGer has rushed to get into CQC, they still do not have the advantage of rate of fire, just movement. Once that has happened, using the QBB, you can hipfire/praynspray and get the kill. At the begining, it took me a while to get used to it, but there is something to be said about keeping SMGers at midquarters combat.
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wwaa
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Post by wwaa on Jan 10, 2013 10:10:34 GMT -5
Lightweight seems like an odd choice when Flak Jacket and Tac Mask are almost needed. I did not mean capturing a flag or planting a bomb, but face-2-face gun-on-gun combat, clearing area.
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Post by otisman666 on Jan 10, 2013 10:27:26 GMT -5
Really, really tough?
SMG of choice + Stock + Laser (or RDS) Flak Jak Toughness Dex + Tac Mask EMP + EMP
Probably the PDW, but honestly I have been finding the MP7 to be my personal choice lately.
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Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Jan 10, 2013 13:20:08 GMT -5
If you're not running TI in an objective mode, you're doing it wrong. Does KC count? I find TI to not generally be worth the point there. ;D (Also: That's why my smart player class has Ghost and Lightweight as opposed to FJ or Tac Mask, although I do have alternates with those perks.)
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asasa
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fuck
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Post by asasa on Jan 10, 2013 16:11:42 GMT -5
Seriously? Why would you use a TI in S&D?
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Jan 10, 2013 16:29:12 GMT -5
Seriously? Why would you use a TI in S&D? To distract the oponent, of course!
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Post by kirbyderby on Jan 10, 2013 16:29:24 GMT -5
Seriously? Why would you use a TI in S&D? It might make a decent distraction or an early warning system if someone tries to destroy it.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Jan 10, 2013 16:36:42 GMT -5
I mean objective in the sense of a point/bomb/flag that needs some securin' there is demo and the ill fated sabo asasasasasa....those pretty much required TIs. SnD isn't the only gamemode with a bomb.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Jan 10, 2013 16:44:53 GMT -5
gimmicky, but I myself would have a hard time not destroying it. free 50 points towards a killstreak (and a medal I think).
I loved using a scrambler OMA class in SnD for similar reasons...gimmicky, but again...something that works for odd reasons.
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asasa
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fuck
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Post by asasa on Jan 10, 2013 16:45:48 GMT -5
I was just joking, but I cant see a TI being better than anything else. Just 50 free points for the enemies.
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