Scattered thoughts on buckshot

[alexwgreen]

So, I've been thinking about this for a while. Did a search but couldn't turn anything up.

Assuming no pellets hitting the head and magnum is not used, the following is true.

ohk range

7 pellets - 0-8m
8 pellets - 8-11.1m
9 pellets - 11.1-13.4m
10 pellets - 13.4-14.3m
11 pellets - 14.3-15.2m
12 pellets - 15.2-16.0m

So beyond 16m more buckshot is required for a one hit kill than is administered by a single trigger pull on the pump actions.

What I'm unsure about is the degree of spread of buckshot at 16m relative to the size of the hit box.

Through searching, I understand all buckshot weapons use a "dispersion" figure to calculate spread. @den, do you know how this is used. For a given range, does this dispersion figure determine a circle of dispersion within which the 12 pellets are randomly scattered, or are they weighted to the centre?

It should, given all the required data, be possible to prepare a similar set of range data for the number of buckshot expected to land on the hit box at a given range. If this drops below 12 pellets before 16m then it stands to reason that the potential ohk range is actually less than 16m.

To do this, we would need to know the actual size of the hit boxes in the same units as range and the angular formula of "dispersion".

The matter is then further complicated by the possiblity of some pellets hitting the head and imparting 2.5x damage.

So lets imagine the enemy is simply a floating head.

4 pellets - 0-13.2m
5 pellets - 13.2-15.6m
6 pellets - 15.6-17.2m
7 pellets - 17.6m onwards

The same reasoning can be applied to these figures, only, one would expect the "head" hit box to be smaller than the torso hit box. So dispersion may mean that it is not possible to land 7 pellets on the head hit box at 17.6m, so the real headshot only ohk range may be reduced.

In reality, there is likely to be some overlap with some pellets striking the head and the majority the torso.

So it then comes down to what the actual dispersion is and the relative size of the head and torso hit boxes.

And finally, the question I'm hoping to answer;

...as the range to target approaches the limit of the shotguns range, where do you aim to maximise the chances of achieving a ohk. Do you

(a) Center the crosshair on the enemies ugly mug to try and get those crucial headshots
(b) Aim for center mass trying to maximise the number of pellets that hit
(c) Somewhere in between
(d) Draw pistol
(e) Run while screaming for mummy

I realise to some, this may be considered a little over the top. Only I want to be able to use the shotguns effectively.


PS: You are my bro, bro

[rubionubio]

There may also be Option (f): Shoot, fail to kill, die in response, respawn with slugs.

But seriously, for me it's usually D. Pumps only get the one shot usually, so I don't even waste it outside of ~12m. I'd prefer to just fill them full of .45 from my M1911.

[alexwgreen]

I think option (f) as you describe it is my normal outcome when using shotguns. I guess I'm looking for the most effective way to make sure that doesn't happen. As I tend to flank more than charge, I guess option (g) would be to continue flanking/stalking until target is within lethal range.

[saddaminsane]

honestly
(c)
most pellets will hit something at least while getting about the same onto the head as would aiming directly at the face. - then again, practice makes perfect

[Den]

A grouping of Dispersion's 3.0 is assumed the same as a Spread of 3.0. There are two different types of spread likely because of some discrepancy regarding firing more than one projectile at a time.
Using this random image off of Google since it appears to be a stock image using 55° FOV.

The cone of fire for the dispersion is twice as wide as the Thompson's when moving. That ring crosshair for the buckshot may not be too far from an accurate representation.

Even at 16m, some of the shot is going to miss. At any significant range, I would Option (B) and then immediately after firing, press Option (D)en: pistol. Take out my M9 to finish him off.

[undoubledzim]

for what its worth I will oftentimes 2 shot sombody with a semi auto at a range where I would consider a single shot for a pump unable to OHK

not sure exactly what this amounts to but im I feel its important somehow

[klokateer]

Jun 29, 2011 13:18:17 GMT -5 undoubledzim said:

for what its worth I will oftentimes 2 shot sombody with a semi auto at a range where I would consider a single shot for a pump unable to OHK

not sure exactly what this amounts to but im I feel its important somehow

likely that can be laid at the feet of: they were already damaged

[raxcoswell]

Yeah my preferred option w/shotgun is to shoot and then immediately switch to pistol. You'll probably do some damage so it's better than not bothering. Plus you're all set up to reload cancel if that's what you decide you want to do afterall.

P.s. Do any of you guys view the pump cancel as ungentlemanly behaviour or what?

Also this is an interesting thread! Rough ohk distances would be cool to know, but I guess you just get an eye for it yourself. I don't really know how big distances are in metres or how tall the guys are (does that little squiggle on the svd scope work?)

[alexwgreen]

Jun 30, 2011 6:24:18 GMT -5 raxcoswell said:

Yeah my preferred option w/shotgun is to shoot and then immediately switch to pistol. You'll probably do some damage so it's better than not bothering. Plus you're all set up to reload cancel if that's what you decide you want to do afterall.

This seems to be the general consensus then.

Take the shot, and if they're not dead, finish them off with the pistol.

Jun 30, 2011 6:24:18 GMT -5 raxcoswell said:

P.s. Do any of you guys view the pump cancel as ungentlemanly behaviour or what?

I'm unfamiliar with this, but it sounds like something I should know about Can you elaborate?

Jun 30, 2011 6:24:18 GMT -5 raxcoswell said:

Also this is an interesting thread! Rough ohk distances would be cool to know, but I guess you just get an eye for it yourself. I don't really know how big distances are in metres or how tall the guys are (does that little squiggle on the svd scope work?)

I think it's interesting. That's why I was hoping to get input from you guys. Let's be honest, the shotgun is never going to be the optimal choice in a game where most engagements are at mid range on open terrain. But, there is something satisfying about using an underdog setup and making it work for you. If we can determine an effective approach to using the shotgun at the ~16m+ range, then I would definitely use it more often.

For reference, the body of the M1 Abrams in real life is just under 8m excluding the main gun. So the range we're looking at is two tank bodies, assuming they are replicated to scale.

The other reason I think it might be worth getting to the bottom of this is that I assume shotguns will operate in the same way in bf3, and from the footage seen already, there seems to be a greater level of cqc. As such, shotguns could be considerably more useful.

[raxcoswell]

if you switch to your pistol immediately after firing the shotgun, then straight back, you don't pump the shotgun, but it's ready to fire again. Pretty significant increase in fire rate. Plus it means as soon as you shoot, you're either ready to shoot again quicker than normal, or your pistol's already there for the party. Win win.


and yeah, it's satisfying to use the underdog weapons, and it's also satisfying to use the one hit kill weapons. Makes the shotgun almost too satisfying.

[fazzmania]

Whatever you can do to increase your chances of survival is ok with me, except lagging yourself or hacking.