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Post by dcbrady12 on Nov 15, 2011 19:01:28 GMT -5
I've updated the previous chart I made with several updates... 1. Including silenced sniper bullets to kill 2. Updating the weapon grading system 3. Cleaned up conditionality 4. Included Headshot Multipliers 5. Fixed random errors (bolt action for MSR, Handgun bullets to kill)
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Post by toshiru on Nov 15, 2011 19:34:00 GMT -5
Nice nice
Wish it was a tad bigger but it's fine
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kilo
True Bro
Posts: 10,070
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Post by kilo on Nov 15, 2011 19:41:43 GMT -5
what exactly is your grading criteria?
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Post by dcbrady12 on Nov 15, 2011 19:54:10 GMT -5
Basically i could post the formula but it wouldn't exactly make sense. I take into account Time to kill, Recoil, Long Distance Range Change, and Run Speed. I also allow for Recoil and Range change to have more of a factor on the "Long" gun grade compared to the "Close" grade. Then i simply average out the "Close" and "Long" gun rank grades to get an overall number.
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arcanine2009
True Bro
the definitely not obsessed with dragunov guy
Posts: 11,792
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 15, 2011 21:02:32 GMT -5
If people are good at getting consecutive headshots with the FAD somehow, they could own (fastest kill time after M60?).
Oh and none of the sniper rifles w/ silencer can OSOK to the chest? Could have sworn someone said that they could OSOK to the chest with the Barrett.
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Post by reader on Nov 15, 2011 21:06:24 GMT -5
If people are good at getting consecutive headshots with the FAD somehow, they could own (fastest kill time after M60?). No,if they are that good, a MK14 is much better, that's 1 shot kill.
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arcanine2009
True Bro
the definitely not obsessed with dragunov guy
Posts: 11,792
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 15, 2011 21:07:36 GMT -5
I was talking about autos actually. Should have mentioned that.
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Post by reader on Nov 15, 2011 21:14:03 GMT -5
I was talking about autos actually. Should have mentioned that. It's a bit of regardless auto or not, as it's much harder to get 2 shot on head with an auto than 1 shot at head with a semi. MK14 also have longer effective range. And even at very long range, it's 1 head shot + 1 anywhere shot vs 2 head shots vs 1 anywhere shot. FAD's real Strength is not going for head shot, but for people who prefer AR but doesn't want to use stalker/ aim all the time. The Aim + time to kill is the fastest for any auto AR at any range, type 95 is better at close range, but at far, it kills much faster than 2 burst of Type 95.
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Post by reader on Nov 15, 2011 21:17:08 GMT -5
By at any range I meant close or far, there is a small range in middle where FAD's damage dropped off, and some other AR has not, and in that range, it does not have fastest AIM + kill time. So not really at any range.
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Post by zuluzuluzulu on Nov 15, 2011 22:44:35 GMT -5
Can you get rid of those 100% subjective grading sections, and also actually post the statistics for the guns. For instance, the UMP has high penetration, but it is left off your chart. Also, the "range change" category is useless. It isn't a good comparative stat because you're not taking actual damage into account. It needs to highlight the ranges at which a gun needs an additional bullet to kill, with and without a silencer.
I don't see the benefit of people continuing to make these doo-dooty, subjective charts before anything is known for sure via repeatable and controllable tests. It really shouldn't be too hard to get these stats done, and making these charts before then isn't helping anything but spread disinformation.
And the caps lock key is like a few millimeters from the "a" key. That's how far you'd have to move it not to sound like a complete shithead in your title.
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kilo
True Bro
Posts: 10,070
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Post by kilo on Nov 16, 2011 0:12:05 GMT -5
Using a statistical normal curve with mean of ~50% and standard deviation of ~21%, I compared the assault rifles, smgs, and lmgs equally on the basis of 1/(shots to kill min), 1/(shots to kill max), rpm, max range, min range, headshot multiplier, 1/(head shots to kill min), 1/(head shots to kill max), center speed, 1/(ADS), 1/(reload time), 1/(empty reload), 1/(add time), 1/(drop time), 1/(raise time), movement speed, starting ammo, max ammo, and magazine capacity and got this:
MK14: A+ M16A4: A G36C: A- CM901: B P90: B- ACR 6.8: B- MP7: C+ SCAR-L: C+ MG36: C M4A1: C FAD: C MP5: C AK-47: D+ PM-9: D M60E4: D TYPE 95: D L86 LSW: D PKP PECHENEG: D UMP45: D PP90M1: D- MK46: D-
Secondary: MP9: A+ SKORPION: A FMG69: B DESERT EAGLE: C P99: C- G18: D+ .44 MAGNUM: D MP412: D FIVE SEVEN: D USP.45: D- i would like to find a way to incorporate recoil, hip spread, and compensate for burst fire, but i don't have those numbers
EDIT: REPLACED 4 DAMAGE VALUES WITH SHOTS TO KILL
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Post by [N7] SakuyaFM on Nov 16, 2011 0:23:37 GMT -5
I am disappoint that the CM901 is just so mediocre compared to others. I love using it.
Still, I'm happy the G36c is on there. I remember when everyone hated that gun on COD4, and I used it all the time. It's the first gun I had Red Tiger on.
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Post by dcbrady12 on Nov 16, 2011 11:54:45 GMT -5
Zulu if you don't like it then stop trolling and get off your holier than though pedestal... OBVIOUSLY (ALL CAPS, I THOUGHT YOU'D LIKE IT) the weapon grades are subjective as any idiot could deduct this without you pointing it out. The point of this chart (taken from the strategy guide) is to help people make their own decisions on weapons by looking at the statistics. Do us all a favor and stick to playing COD in your mom's basement instead of trolling all of Den's Forums...
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Post by bamblakopz on Nov 16, 2011 12:18:43 GMT -5
Great chart! Although, why did you take off recoil? The first one had recoil right? I don't see that anymore on this new chart.
Also, could you explain Range Change? I assume the higher the score the longer the bullet retains it's power before dropping? What are those numbers? What do they mean?
Also also, range is one of the most important stats in shotguns. Do we have any access to that?
Thanks bro!
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Post by dcbrady12 on Nov 16, 2011 12:30:09 GMT -5
The higher the range change number the longer the Gun's bullet's to kill remains at the "Close" range. Keep in mind that the number listed for range change is when the range starts to drop off and not the exact distance the change from "Close" to "Far" bullets to kill occurs. May have to wait for Den's official numbers. Also I'll update the shotgun ranges later tonight. See weapon recoil stats below (overall lower numbers are better...)
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Post by bamblakopz on Nov 16, 2011 12:59:20 GMT -5
That's what I thought. But what do the actual numbers stand for? The distance before it drops? By feet? Meters? etc? Or is it just numbers? Lol....
Thanks for that recoil chart, very helpful.
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Post by dcbrady12 on Nov 16, 2011 13:29:42 GMT -5
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Post by bamblakopz on Nov 16, 2011 13:39:13 GMT -5
Hmmm, okay. That makes sense. Thanks a billion!
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asasa
True Bro
fuck
Posts: 4,255
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Post by asasa on Nov 16, 2011 17:03:11 GMT -5
Wait what is the new chart? The last one had the MK46 as #1 in class, now #3?
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Post by psijaka on Nov 16, 2011 17:13:27 GMT -5
@ dcbrady12
I really think that you need to publish your criteria for grading the guns; people will take them much more seriously if you do.
EDIT - not trolling; trying to be helpful here.
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Post by psijaka on Nov 16, 2011 17:19:36 GMT -5
Basically i could post the formula but it wouldn't exactly make sense. I take into account Time to kill, Recoil, Long Distance Range Change, and Run Speed. I also allow for Recoil and Range change to have more of a factor on the "Long" gun grade compared to the "Close" grade. Then i simply average out the "Close" and "Long" gun rank grades to get an overall number. Please post the formula; I'm interested.
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Post by zuluzuluzulu on Nov 16, 2011 21:57:44 GMT -5
The point of this chart (taken from the strategy guide) is to help people make their own decisions on weapons by looking at the statistics. Maybe you use use useful categories and actually post the statistics then, seeing as you still left things off, and are using completely subjective grading scales, which are just a complete waste of space. Mixing objective numbers and subjective ones isn't helping anyone other than you feel good about yourself. Nobody gives a doo-doo which gun you think is best, just give them the stats, and the real stats, and the useful ones, which you haven't gotten on there yet. Also, reverting to character attacks and petty nonsense is a pretty good indicator you didn't have any legitimate argument to make.
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arcanine2009
True Bro
the definitely not obsessed with dragunov guy
Posts: 11,792
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 16, 2011 22:07:28 GMT -5
The point of this chart (taken from the strategy guide) is to help people make their own decisions on weapons by looking at the statistics. Maybe you use use useful categories and actually post the statistics then, seeing as you still left things off, and are using completely subjective grading scales, which are just a complete waste of space. Mixing objective numbers and subjective ones isn't helping anyone other than you feel good about yourself. Nobody gives a doo-doo which gun you think is best, just give them the stats, and the real stats, and the useful ones, which you haven't gotten on there yet. Also, reverting to character attacks and petty nonsense is a pretty good indicator you didn't have any legitimate argument to make. I agree with the whole not subjectively ranking guns and giving them grade letters, but.. Why so hostile?
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Post by bamblakopz on Nov 16, 2011 22:36:18 GMT -5
Pretty sure he created the chart so he has 100% control on what he puts on it. There's NOTHING wrong with him ranking his favorites and whether he tells us the exact reasons why or not, who cares. I agree with Arcanine, why so hostile?
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Post by Indy_Bones on Nov 17, 2011 3:21:14 GMT -5
Pretty sure he created the chart so he has 100% control on what he puts on it. There's NOTHING wrong with him ranking his favorites and whether he tells us the exact reasons why or not, who cares. I agree with Arcanine, why so hostile? I got a similar response in the MW2 days when I wrote my new players guide - most Denobites don't want subjective info, they want cold hard facts - end of. I agree that there's nothing wrong with having this grading on there as it's a personal opinion being displayed - but it's not in any way factual. As already pointed out, if we at least understood the formula behind it we can see if we agree with it, or offer potential improvements if not.
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Post by [N7] SakuyaFM on Nov 17, 2011 10:56:57 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that he ranked it based on the objective numbers and not his own opinion.
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Post by Indy_Bones on Nov 17, 2011 11:17:15 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that he ranked it based on the objective numbers and not his own opinion. But that in itself is opinion, as his interpretation of the numbers to give a grade could be totally different to everyone else's - hence opinion.
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Post by reganmil on Nov 17, 2011 11:37:30 GMT -5
daaang you guys are -crazy-.. I like you, but you're crazy.
I think it's funny that the 1st gun you get (M4) is statistically better than the last (FAD) in almost every category. I mean, I guess it's not all that odd (and consistent w/ past COD titles), but there's been alot of rave about the FAD beast and it has incredible recoil. Yea, the multiplier & (.05 sec) ADS boost is nice but you can see why it's sorely needed to compete. the recoil stats are identical across the board, with M4 having the better dmg and effective range. Ok here's my point I guess...
With the same recoil and center speed and a higher ROF, I would think the FAD would be spraying more than the M4. But if you check the plots (thanks to psijaka) you can see the grouping is as good or better than the M4. Also, i've played both and it did *feel* like it had better recoil to me. I'm definitely bursting the M4 where the FAD has more of a laser hold down the trigger job to me. With a higher ROF?! Picture slappin a rapid fire on a M4 you would think it'd be all over the place. WTF?
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Post by reganmil on Nov 17, 2011 11:44:03 GMT -5
@ dcbrady: btw, nice job on the chart broskie. the grading system reminds of the 'big board' funston does for yahoo sports. while it's not statistically relevant, it's cool to see a ranking system from someone who has spent the time on the numbers. nothing will quite live up to dens charts so until then tread carefully, ha.
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Post by rejectionrole on Nov 17, 2011 12:17:28 GMT -5
daaang you guys are -crazy-.. I like you, but you're crazy. I think it's funny that the 1st gun you get (M4) is statistically better than the last (FAD) in almost every category. I mean, I guess it's not all that odd (and consistent w/ past COD titles), but there's been alot of rave about the FAD beast and it has incredible recoil. Yea, the multiplier & (.05 sec) ADS boost is nice but you can see why it's sorely needed to compete. the recoil stats are identical across the board, with M4 having the better dmg and effective range. Ok here's my point I guess... With the same recoil and center speed and a higher ROF, I would think the FAD would be spraying more than the M4. But if you check the plots (thanks to psijaka) you can see the grouping is as good or better than the M4. Also, i've played both and it did *feel* like it had better recoil to me. I'm definitely bursting the M4 where the FAD has more of a laser hold down the trigger job to me. With a higher ROF?! Picture slappin a rapid fire on a M4 you would think it'd be all over the place. WTF? That's really interesting, actually. I hadn't looked closely enough to realize that they had the exact same recoil pattern and center speed. I really don't have a good answer for that one. That being said, I don't think that's it's necessarily statistically inferior. ADS speed means a lot unless you're using Stalker (even with Quickdraw, the .025s faster ADS puts the FAD's close-range TTK almost exactly tied with the M4). And higher RoF means you're punished less when one or two of your shots don't land. That's the problem with all these theoretical charts—yea, the MK14 has incredible TTK at all ranges, and if you've got impeccable aim and not too much lag you're going to dominate with it. But once you start missing shots you have to add firetimes to your TTK, and the high RoF guns start to dominate overwhelmingly. It's got those nice 40 round mags, too, which help compensate for it's higher RoF.
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