MW3 Recoil Plots

[asasa]

Would someone with the ability to count frames do a test please?

[psijaka]

Nov 30, 2011 0:46:46 GMT -5 asasa said:

Would someone with the ability to count frames do a test please?

It would be really useful if someone could do this, even if just for a few guns.

Please.

[notyourtypical]

I finally registered an account here and wanted to say thanks for the awesome MW3 and BO plots. Really badass work!

[olmonsterlu]

I joined this forum just so I could say thanks to psijaka for the work. Googled MP7 vs PP90M1 and this was beyond my wildest dreams. Superb stuff!

[psijaka]

Nov 30, 2011 22:20:41 GMT -5 notyourtypical said:

I finally registered an account here and wanted to say thanks for the awesome MW3 and BO plots. Really badass work!

Nov 30, 2011 23:14:42 GMT -5 olmonsterlu said:

I joined this forum just so I could say thanks to psijaka for the work. Googled MP7 vs PP90M1 and this was beyond my wildest dreams. Superb stuff!

Thanks for the feedback guys; appreciated

And welcome to the forum; you'll find that we are a pretty friendly bunch here.

[asasa]

Psijaka, what is your opinion on Kick vs Grip, assuming x.8kick and x1.25centerspeed

Some quick math is showing that kick beats grip in most cases, as well as making recoil far more consistent than a centerspeed increase would,.. but is that the case in reality?


For example, I was getting a few example kick values for kick and grip:

Max recoil [Horiz] on L86

Kick: 48* - 24** = 36 avg speed
Grip: 60 - 30 = 45 avg speed
*Comes from 60x.8
**Comes from 1700/5x.07[firetime]
Same applies to grip.

Avg values:

Kick: 24 - 24 = 12 avg speed
Grip: 30 - 30 = 15 avg speed

Minimum [maybe 0 is impossible, doesnt matter]

Kick: 0 - 24 = -12 avg speed
Grip: 0 - 30 = -15 avg speed




Am I thinking about this wrong? Grip seems to beat kick only in low recoil rolls, or ~1/3rd of the time... but even if it were 50/50, kick makes the recoil more consistent by equalizing values across the board.


Also, by speed I mean recoil velocity in the given direction.

[psijaka]

Dec 2, 2011 0:14:51 GMT -5 asasa said:

Psijaka, what is your opinion on Kick vs Grip, assuming x.8kick and x1.25centerspeed

I'll do some plots later, asasa.

[duckcall00]

Could you add the Type 95 and M16 RF?

[psijaka]

What RF multiplier?

[crocs]

Any way I could second an earlier request for a plot of the CM901 w/ Shotgun (or GL), with and without Kick?

[xtx]

Dec 2, 2011 10:38:43 GMT -5 psijaka said:

What RF multiplier?

In the absence of contradictory information, I would say that the 1.1 multiplier is correct.

[psijaka]

Dec 2, 2011 12:39:12 GMT -5 xtx said:

Dec 2, 2011 10:38:43 GMT -5 psijaka said:

What RF multiplier?

In the absence of contradictory information, I would say that the 1.1 multiplier is correct.

OK, I'll run the M16/Type 95 with RF at 1.1.

[psijaka]

Dec 2, 2011 1:25:15 GMT -5 psijaka said:

Dec 2, 2011 0:14:51 GMT -5 asasa said:

Psijaka, what is your opinion on Kick vs Grip, assuming x.8kick and x1.25centerspeed

I'll do some plots later, asasa.

Is L86 Grip + Kick allowed? It shouldn't be!


Here's some more:



A bit inconclusive as far as Kick v Grip is concerned. I'll do some more calculations to put some figures on it.

EDIT - there is no difference in the percentage of 2nd, 3rd and 4th shots that are fully recentered when comparing Viewkick x 0.8 and Centerspeed x 1.25.

EDIT2 - did some quick kill time probability simulations (5000 bursts) with the M60E4 at 17.5m. Probability of getting the kill in 3 shots slightly higher with Kick (80.2%) than with Grip (76.1%). This excludes sway. Target size 1m high x 0.4m wide.

Conclusion - percentage of shots that take place with the gun fully recentered is the same, but spread is slightly tighter with Kick. This is just discernable on the plots.

[psijaka]

Dec 2, 2011 11:31:20 GMT -5 crocs said:

Any way I could second an earlier request for a plot of the CM901 w/ Shotgun (or GL), with and without Kick?

What rate of fire is it with the underbarrel?

[hellzonegrenade]

750

[asasa]

Thanks very much for more plots.

Its unfortunate the L86 has to have so much gunkick.

[hellzonegrenade]

more like its unfortunate that the thermal scope is the only way to get rid of it >:

[asasa]

Here are my findings on RF, on a few weapons, as well as their firerates.

MK46: 734 RPM
MK46 RF: 904 RPM
+23%

L86: 722 RPM
L86 RF: 915 RPM
+27%

MP7: 860 RPM
MP7 RF: 983 RPM
+14%

PP90: 939 RPM
PP90 RF: 1293 RPM
+32%

[mannon]

psijaka

In the L86LSW = Laser thread Den mentions viewkick vs gunkick and why the thermal makes it so much more accurate.

I was wondering if you have the gunkick values and are modelling them? At a guess gunkick would use the same math, but applied separately. Most weapons have traditionally had negligible gunkick so don't worry about all the charts being off even if you don't have it. But apparently the LMG's in MW3 have lots of gunkick.

I just thought I'd bring it up. I never even considered it, hell I had completely forgotten about gunkick, though Den's mentioned it before.

[asasa]

PM9, PP90, MK46, and L86 are the only guns with noteworthy gunkick afaik

[psijaka]

I remember Den saying in some thread that gunkick always recenters well before the next round is fired. On this basis I have ignored it.

[psijaka]

Dec 3, 2011 14:18:10 GMT -5 asasa said:

Here are my findings on RF, on a few weapons, as well as their firerates.

MK46: 734 RPM
MK46 RF: 904 RPM
+23%

L86: 722 RPM
L86 RF: 915 RPM
+27%

MP7: 860 RPM
MP7 RF: 983 RPM
+14%

PP90: 939 RPM
PP90 RF: 1293 RPM
+32%

Thanks for this asasa. I had better remove my RF plots from the OP.

And have a bit of a think as to where I go from here.

[asasa]

Gunkick as it has been used it all previous games had recentered before the next shot. It seems they have decided to change that.

YW, I'll do some more if I get enough free time to waste.



I have to wonder why I'm getting such low firerates though. All of them are shooting slower than the guide would claim.

[mannon]

If I had to guess gunkick probably works just like viewkick with it's own independent center and the combined offsets are probably added together? Does gunkick have it's own centerspeed? I think Den posted something about that. I should prolly look.

[mannon]

Dec 3, 2011 3:17:43 GMT -5 Den said:

Gunkick has its own set of variables.

adsGunKickPitchMin\
adsGunKickPitchMax
adsGunKickYawMin
adsGunKickYawMax
adsGunKickAccel
adsGunKickSpeedMax
adsGunKickSpeedDecay
adsGunKickStaticDecay

adsViewKickPitchMin
adsViewKickPitchMax
adsViewKickYawMin
adsViewKickYawMax
adsViewKickCenterSpeed

Actually the variables look quite different... O,o

[wantonRULE]

i could of sworn there were "rapid fire + kick" for smg plots?...have they been removed?

[asasa]

Yes, as we do not know the RF values for every weapon.,

[psijaka]

Dec 4, 2011 9:34:29 GMT -5 wantonRULE said:

i could of sworn there were "rapid fire + kick" for smg plots?...have they been removed?

Afraid so. There is no universal RF multiplication factor, so I had to remove them.

asasa and others have been posting the results of tests; some on other threads. I will attempt to collate this information and re-do the plots.

[wantonRULE]

ok, that makes sense.

thanks guys

[hellzonegrenade]

Dec 3, 2011 15:34:25 GMT -5 asasa said:

PM9, PP90, MK46, and L86 are the only guns with noteworthy gunkick afaik

i think you could also add the cm901 to that list.
also how would you go about testing for gunkick? the best ive managed to come up with is sticking a tiny bit of blu-tack to my screen >.<