Indirect (gun TTK unchanged): 6) 1000 kills and 100 headshots with MP to get Akimbo for MP 7) reduce ammo and no resuply with Scav for Akimbo 8) Akimbo MP only as a secondary for LMGs or riot shield (reduce speed, convert to self defence weapon only) 9) no stealth perks with Akimbo MP (no BlindEye, no Assassin and no DeadSilence) and no Steady Aim 10) very significantly increase reload speed and no SoH (but maps are cluttered, a lot of places to reload) 11) no minimap if class with Akimbo MP. 12) if Akimbo MP your health is 50, not 100 13) ...
I think we'll see 2-5 in different proportions, although I think that 9) and 11) would do I‘d expect the first patch to fail to some extent and the final patch in January
There is no way they will start create a set of restrictions for this. This type of restriction doesn't even exist in this game in any form.
The only two good ways I see to balance Akimbo vs Standard is
A: Reduce damage when Akimbo'ed I don't like this much it kills realism, yes i Know, Realism+CoD. But it just seems a gimmicky solution.
B: Widening hipfire spread. Seems far more logical to me. You're holding guns in one hand; naturally you cant control the weapon as well and it will have more spread.
This forces Akimbo weapons to become more effective closer, which brings them into the killzone of shotguns, or knife...
Either way, I say the best way to balance Akimbos is alter their spread, reload, or even drop/raise times accordingly rather than take the easy road and just chop off X damage.
Post by battleaxerx on Dec 2, 2011 14:53:41 GMT -5
G18s already draw quicker than any MP.
IMO nothing fancy to balance akimbo SMGs is necessary... Just tweak hip accuracy, ROF, kick, damage.
The main problem is that this game... is a joke, and most of us are thinking that they aren't going to spend much time trying to hammer out the details so that the game is pristine and awesomely balanced. They'll probably tweak damage and hip fire on the FMG9s and call it a day.
How does the time to raise the weapon after sprinting work? I'm unfamiliar with how that works and if it varies by weapon. I will say that using akimbo FMG-9's with Steady Aim Pro, it seems like you can go straight from a sprint to firing, and increasing that amount of time would help limit their effectiveness.
Another thing I haven't noticed anyone mention is increasing muzzle flash. In MW2, I found it much harder to aim and maintain accuracy with akimbo G18's than the FMG-9's in MW3 at enemies not quite as close because they had much more muzzle flash. I compensated for this by using Bling to add silencers as well, but that is not an option in MW3. Perhaps slightly increased recoil plus increased muzzle flash would be the best way to manage their effectiveness? That intuitively makes the most sense in terms of balance to me - from extremely close range, someone firing two fully automatic guns should have the upper hand against anything but Shotguns. The issue is really that they are so effective out to the range where SMG's should be king, but making it harder to effectively land shots at those ranges with slightly increased recoil and increased muzzle flash would restore the proper order. It would make it so there is no longer an engagement distance for which akimbo machine pistols are the most effective possible weapon.
(Of course, this is unlikely because changing the muzzle flash would require a change to the animation, which I'd assume is more work than simply changing numbers like the recoil values)
Just make all the MPs like the PP2000 from MW2 when Akimbo. The fact that any weapon like the Type-95 or SR can have an amazing CQC back-up in the form of a single is already blasphemous enough since there's no long-range equivalent for Shotguns and SMGs, IE the M93 in MW2.
Just make all the MPs like the PP2000 from MW2 when Akimbo. The fact that any weapon like the Type-95 or SR can have an amazing CQC back-up in the form of a single is already blasphemous enough since there's no long-range equivalent for Shotguns and SMGs, IE the M93 in MW2.
PP2000 Akimbo:
Consider the maps in this game fav CQC so much, this is balanced.
You guys are over thinking it. All you have to do is switch the damage on the skorpion and FMG 9 and increase hip fire spread when akimbo by like 1.5 times on all MP.
Then you have the skorpion actually being viable with higher damage, while still not being overpowered because of the increase in hip spread akimbo, while the FMG's would be nerfed and G18 would have its niche as shooting 1000 rpm still doing the highest damage in the class, albeit with the small clips and incredible recoil, and increased hip spread. It would actually make pistols competitive.
Also i was just thinking, i wonder how well pistols would work if they had unlimited damage drop off ala MW2 LMGs. Deagle and magnum at 2 shots(to the body) at any range. mp412 at 2 shots close and 3 long(due to low recoil) and then all others at 3 shots at any range. its pretty tough to land 3 shots (or 2 on a deagle for that matter) at long range to beat out an AR, so i don't think that would be OP. and it would be a viable secondary to an SMG that lacks range.
Reduce damage when Akimbo'ed I don't like this much it kills realism, yes i Know, Realism+CoD. But it just seems a gimmicky solution.
Akimbo Skorpions did exactly this in Blops and it was entirely reasonable there.
QFT.
Also, I quite enjoyed Den's idea to increase reload times for Akimbo. I mean it makes sense, too, that it would take at least twice as long to reload two of them, especially when both your hands are full.
TheHawkNY - at least in CSS (probably the same in this game, I'm assuming), muzzle flash can be increased or decreased per gun, individually, by simply tweaking a number in the stats. It's that simple. And I agree with your idea about increasing muzzle flash. I find akimbo MP9’s to be virtually unusable because of it, and the FMG's should definitely be the same, if not worse.
Lastly, a severe range decrease would make great sense, perhaps even more-so than a damage change. And pistols' effect of decreasing the other weapon's Drop time to .25 (or whatever it is in this game) should also apply to the other weapon's Raise time, to help swap quickly and conveniently between sniper and pistol as needed. Would certainly give the pistols more use.
Post by Killerpuffball on Dec 3, 2011 11:58:42 GMT -5
I had this idea long ago on how to nerf MPs in a way that would actually give pistols a reason to be used. It is nothing special, but here goes:
Machine Pistols, just like Shotguns, should have their bullets "disappear" past 25m. Though this does not stop them from being effective up close, it certainly stops them from being used at range. This would also have the effect of indirectly buffing Overkill.
I've been using USP .45 only for a day now, working towards the 2.5k kill title for it, and it would be quite powerful for good players as a secondary with 40-25... I'd settle for 40-20 as in previous games, but without stopping power I think it could use a bit of extra oomph. As is, six shots to kill beyond stone throwing distance makes things unnecessarily difficult.
Infinite range as proposed above would be a dream come true for a pistol user such as myself, of course. I think it would be somewhat overpowered for good players, but it wouldn't be something you'd see everyone abusing, because it takes very good aim at and beyond medium range.
Last Edit: Dec 3, 2011 20:06:04 GMT -5 by rainbows
@den The crazy huge spread of 9-12 Akimbo had in MW2 was absurd, but the Glock18 equivalent on everything is just as bad. I'd suggest a flat 5.5 spread for akimbo MPs and SMGs. Minimum and maximum. All stances. No expansion or contraction. Similar to a shotgun.
On PS3 as of this morning (12/3/2011) there appears to be a patch for all akimbo weapons. After measurement I found they have ALL been set to the same hip-spread.
The common hipspread is: * Moving Stand/Crouch/Prone = 5/4/5 * Stationary Stand/Crouch/Prone = 5/4/3
akimbo M9 (and usp but less ammo) pistols in MW2 were EXTREMELY imbalanced. Pistols do NOT need to return to 56-28 from MW2 (stopping power) +Much higher chance to kill in fewer bullet than G18's +Far faster reload +Clips effectively last far longer to take out even more enemies
i know. i used akimbo M9's for years even on GB. (And I've got the akimbo rapidfire macro AND GB/pub videos of roflstomping with it to prove it!)
in competitive play, the G18's were imba. Better than anything but the M1014+EM / akimbo rangers (and that depended on range). Ofcorse shotguns are typically off-limits...
The damage of all normal weapons should simply be returned to previous balance levels (40-20 40-30 30-20 25-20 etc) and then have stopping power applied across the board, removing the death streak.
All MP's should have a first use penalty, ALWAYS and akimbo hip spread doubled
Last Edit: Dec 3, 2011 23:50:49 GMT -5 by toysrme6v0
COD & MW are not gun simulators ... no realism needed. And as akimbo machine gun is FUN I do not expect IW to disable it.
The problem with FMG9 Akimbo is TTK in CQC and the only solution is to reduce that TTK. Available options:
Direct (change TTK): 1) no akimbo for mp, Akimbo MP has: 2) more recoil, 3) more spread), 4) reduced rpm, 5) reduced range,
Indirect (gun TTK unchanged): 6) 1000 kills and 100 headshots with MP to get Akimbo for MP 7) reduce ammo and no resuply with Scav for Akimbo 8) Akimbo MP only as a secondary for LMGs or riot shield (reduce speed, convert to self defence weapon only) 9) no stealth perks with Akimbo MP (no BlindEye, no Assassin and no DeadSilence) and no Steady Aim 10) very significantly increase reload speed and no SoH (but maps are cluttered, a lot of places to reload) 11) no minimap if class with Akimbo MP. 12) if Akimbo MP your health is 50, not 100 13) ...
I think we'll see 2-5 in different proportions, although I think that 9) and 11) would do I‘d expect the first patch to fail to some extent and the final patch in January
lol, that wont happen, but i think they already did patch it. i think crosshairs dont shrink when crouching? and no more 2HK to head. what else will they/could do? reduce range when akimbo, increase hipfire spread. the gun was designed to be good. and its too good at so many ranges. it just should be good at shotgun range.
wait what? Its been patched already? I played last night and i didn't notice any difference. it still feels the same. Pls tell me it hasn't been patched yet.
Juding IW by their incompetence we've come to know in MW2, I wouldn't be surprised if this was indeed their 'fix' to akimbo machine pistols. It boggles my mind how a company like that apparently employs a bunch of airheads instead of people with a sliver of common sense and gaming experience to take care of gun balancing. Maybe airheads are easier to control?
