⌈Call of Duty⌋ Ideal Perk System 3.0

[ZaTaisho]

ALL PERKS & PROFICIENCIES
i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy128/ZaTaisho/AllPerks.png

=NOTE=
Please keep in mind that these are just ideas and are not in any particular system, yet!
Both the Perks and Proficiencies DO NOT conflict one another. They are just 2 lists in the same picture, so please refrain from comparing them together, for they are separate.

I'll be posting this link in the 1st post for all you bros to see
The System is also on its way, but I'll let you all know when I post again with the links.

[ZaTaisho]

I have finally added the Systems in the 1st post, please check it out and comment on your ideas on it, for it is still a work-in-progress.
Thanks Bros!

[ZaTaisho]

Ok, so taking away the perk system for now, I've decided to just post up a Perk bank. PLEASE to all my bros, this might not be a fun or interesting topic (depends) but I do wish for you to at least help another bro out and try to balance this idea.

Please disregard all other links in my previous posts.

[cmck]

For the game breaking perks, I don't know what to think about stopping power and lifeline, They could be balanced or it could be over powered. I guess the game will decide that. Second Chance is good. I would rather have people getting revived instead of trying to kill me. Payday I don't consider game breaking if its money system is like BO.

The immunity perks are balanced among themselves, you just need to make sure they can't all be put on at once.

The visuals look ok except for recon combined with scavenger. As long as they are in the same tier it should be fine.

The movement based perks are standard. I love having unlimited sprint again and lightweight having faster climbing speed. Ninja and eavesdrop should be in the same tier, but the rest should be spaced out.

I like the perks and would like to see how you divide them into tiers. Does it have to be three tiers though? Can you put the game breaking perks in a fourth tier to remedy the MW2 feel that stopping power was a mandatory second tier choice?

[Megaqwerty]

I'd highly discourage combining Ninja and Sit Rep Pro a la Black Ops: this results in the counter to Ninja being more Ninja, not some other perk, thus reducing perk diversity. In MW2 and MW3, Sit Rep Pro is supposed to counter Ninja/DS and only does not due to a glitch.

Quick Draw is a proficiency gets a big jump from me unless you're changing the magnitude of the effect as half ADS In is monstrously powerful. And no sniper would ever give up Quick Draw for....double breath time.

[ZaTaisho]

Mar 22, 2012 17:57:01 GMT -5 cmck said:

For the game breaking perks, I don't know what to think about stopping power and lifeline, They could be balanced or it could be over powered. I guess the game will decide that. Second Chance is good. I would rather have people getting revived instead of trying to kill me. Payday I don't consider game breaking if its money system is like BO.

The immunity perks are balanced among themselves, you just need to make sure they can't all be put on at once.

The visuals look ok except for recon combined with scavenger. As long as they are in the same tier it should be fine.

The movement based perks are standard. I love having unlimited sprint again and lightweight having faster climbing speed. Ninja and eavesdrop should be in the same tier, but the rest should be spaced out.

I like the perks and would like to see how you divide them into tiers. Does it have to be three tiers though? Can you put the game breaking perks in a fourth tier to remedy the MW2 feel that stopping power was a mandatory second tier choice?

Actually, I don't know why I didn't think of putting it into 4 Tiers. I guess I was so used to 3 that if the 4th Tier wasn't a vehicle perk like in WaW, then it was not of use. I will think about that when dividing them.

I am still kinda worry because David Vonderhaar said that they might take Steady Aim, Sleight of Hand, Quickdraw (all perks that enhance the weapons) be removed from the Perk System, but who knows what they are going to do because they have something up their sleeves.

Mar 22, 2012 18:03:06 GMT -5 Megaqwerty said:

I'd highly discourage combining Ninja and Sit Rep Pro a la Black Ops: this results in the counter to Ninja being more Ninja, not some other perk, thus reducing perk diversity. In MW2 and MW3, Sit Rep Pro is supposed to counter Ninja/DS and only does not due to a glitch.

Quick Draw is a proficiency gets a big jump from me unless you're changing the magnitude of the effect as half ADS In is monstrously powerful. And no sniper would ever give up Quick Draw for....double breath time.

I still assume that Treyarch will make it so that the ability to ADS faster won't affect the Snipers in any way. In fact, they were talking about giving the Snipers their own separate ADS times instead.

[cmck]

Thanks for considering 4 tiers. I think it would help the selection of the less used, but still awesome, perks in cod. I wish I could have chosen cold blooded or hardened in MW2 and BO without feeling at a disadvantage.

[-3055-]

so the "game breaking" category...

are these like... the perks that you're suggesting the next cod SHOULDN'T use? or are you saying they should be implemented but they will probably create unfavorable situations?

[cmck]

^ I'm guessing they will be the ones that are clearly dominant, extremely popular, or possibly overpowered.

[ZaTaisho]

Uh, for the "Game Breaking" category....uh....I'm would have to guess that I named them that way because they are cheap perks without nerfs.

Each Raw Perk can be implemented into a Perk Tier of 4, however, some abilities in some perks can be added and replaced for other perks that can either make it better, balanced, or just to remove extra perks in general.

[cmck]

Ok I made a halfassed 4 tier chart for the perks you gave except Payday because I have no idea where to put it. Perhaps in all 4 tiers and it can't stack with itself?

Tier 1: OP tier
Stopping Power
Lifeline
Second Chance

Tier 2: Situational
Ninja
Eavesdrop
Saboteur
Scout
Prowler
Steady Aim
Resperator

Tier 3: Always on
Warlord
Exceed
Hardline
Lightweight
Sleight of Hand
FlakJacket
Dead Eye

Tier 4: Helpful
Marathon
Recon
Scavenger
Hardened
Quickdraw
Ignition
Phantom

The little names beside the tiers were what I labeled them at first as a place to start and don't really mean anything anymore. I think this isn't as good as it can be, but maybe there is someone like me that needs a place to start before ideas flow. I expect this to be ripped to shreds and is just something to criticize to get something better.

[ZaTaisho]

Mar 22, 2012 22:58:58 GMT -5 cmck said:

Ok I made a halfassed 4 tier chart for the perks you gave except Payday because I have no idea where to put it. Perhaps in all 4 tiers and it can't stack with itself?

Tier 1: OP tier
Stopping Power
Lifeline
Second Chance

Tier 2: Situational
Ninja
Eavesdrop
Saboteur
Scout
Prowler
Steady Aim
Resperator

Tier 3: Always on
Warlord
Exceed
Hardline
Lightweight
Sleight of Hand
FlakJacket
Dead Eye

Tier 4: Helpful
Marathon
Recon
Scavenger
Hardened
Quickdraw
Ignition
Phantom

The little names beside the tiers were what I labeled them at first as a place to start and don't really mean anything anymore. I think this isn't as good as it can be, but maybe there is someone like me that needs a place to start before ideas flow. I expect this to be ripped to shreds and is just something to criticize to get something better.

That's so funny, because I was doing the exact same thing! I am actually creating 2 types of Systems. One with 3 Tiers (like normal) and one with 4 Tiers.

[cmck]

Cool. You should post it. I'd like to compare them.

[ZaTaisho]

Mar 22, 2012 23:46:25 GMT -5 cmck said:

Cool. You should post it. I'd like to compare them.

I will once I finished moving things around until they feel very balanced.

I am very worry about the perk "Hardline", because I have been thinking this through along with the Strike Packages, so the issue is Hardline perk with the Support package. Here is what I think that the Support Package SHOULD act if returned (not like MW3's).

Support Package: Gain points for...

• Completing Objectives (Flags, Bombs, Headquarters, etc...)
  
• Eliminating Killstreaks, Pointstreaks, and Specialists
  
• Saving Teammates
  
• Assists
  
• Protecting Objectives (Flags, Bombs, Headquarters, etc...)
  

You will NOT gain points for Kills when using the Support Package.

The problem is, what should I do for the "Assists" portion of the ability, because Hardline Pro is mainly supposed to give you the ability to gain a point after 2 assists, but the Support Package has the same ability (or similar with more assists needed). What do you think I should do?

1) Make it so that the you need 3 assists for a point?
(Making Hardline Pro bring it down to 2 assists)

OR

2) Make it so that you earn 2 points for Completing Objectives?
(Planting, Defusing, Capturing, etc...)

[cmck]

I personally wouldn't go that way for support. I would ask this on the "Why I hate Support" thread. They probably could provide better insight to balancing support and Hardline. But I thought Hardline wasn't going to have an assist effect and it was going to go back to care package rerolling?

If you are going to keep it like this what about for support you gain double points for assists. Instead of getting 1/3 of a point you get 2/3 of a point.

If you have questions about specialist I can probably be of more use considering I actually use it and have thought about how it could be balanced if cheap perks were introduced. The OP tier wasn't for show its to take that whole tier away from specialist. Everyone only gets one.
===========================
Wait if this is set in stone make the defends for support have a bigger radius around the objectives. I can't find an easy way to use or even consider support with it that hard to get pointstreaks.

[ZaTaisho]

Ok, I have made the changes on the 1st post.
If you wish to see it now, here are the links:

= Perk Tier System (4) =
i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy128/ZaTaisho/Tier4System.png
= Perk Tier System (3) =
i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy128/ZaTaisho/Tier3System.png

In the system that has 3 Tiers, I tried to make it so that there were 6 perks total, but I decided to add in 3 more. Right now it's 7 perks in each Tier total, however, I can take out "Lifeline", "Payday", and "Prowler" perks to create 6 perks in each Tier.

Also, if you haven't noticed, I've removed "Steady Aim" in the system with 3 Tiers. That is because Steady Aim kinda "improves" the weapon itself, so it is going to be used as an Attachment called "Laser Sight". This can be used on any weapon.

[cmck]

For the 4 tier system if I were to choose a generic try hard class I would go with Phantom, Reflex, Prowler, and Stopping Power or Lifeline depending on gun stats. For the 3 tier system I would go with Lifeline, Reflex, and Marathon or Saboteur. The Ninja perk is probably not advisable in the 3 tier system. Its counter is itself which isn't a good thing if soundwhores are naturally immune to other soundwhores, but everyone else is left out in the cold. I'd keep it split.

I personally like the 4 tier system, but I'm not the best person to ask concidering I'm already biased toward it. And if they do remove steady aim as a perk I'm definitely going to be sorry to see it go, its one of my favorites and I will now have to use an attatchment slot for shotguns and smgs.

I'm really looking forward to the final result.

[ZaTaisho]

Ok, I organized them pretty good this time. I made it so that there wouldn't be any perks that would REALLY change the game, plus it looks pretty balanced...IMO. I am still having doubts on the 3 perk tier system, but I might fix it later.

= 4 Perk Tier System =
i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy128/ZaTaisho/4PerkTiers.png

= 3 Perk Tier System =
i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy128/ZaTaisho/3PerkTiers.png

I'll still continue to add and remove perks to get a feel to what can become a good perk system to go with.

[kirbyderby]

Mar 23, 2012 1:16:11 GMT -5 cmck said:

For the 4 tier system if I were to choose a generic try hard class I would go with Phantom, Reflex, Prowler, and Stopping Power or Lifeline depending on gun stats. For the 3 tier system I would go with Lifeline, Reflex, and Marathon or Saboteur. The Ninja perk is probably not advisable in the 3 tier system. Its counter is itself which isn't a good thing if soundwhores are naturally immune to other soundwhores, but everyone else is left out in the cold. I'd keep it split.

I personally like the 4 tier system, but I'm not the best person to ask concidering I'm already biased toward it. And if they do remove steady aim as a perk I'm definitely going to be sorry to see it go, its one of my favorites and I will now have to use an attatchment slot for shotguns and smgs.

I'm really looking forward to the final result.

I wouldn't mind having a useful shotgun attachment that isn't extended mags.

[ZaTaisho]

I'm adding a new perk that isn't in the Perk Bank yet, but I have 1 problem.

New Perk:
Imposter - Appear as a friendly on enemy radar while firing
Imposter Pro - Invisible to sensory equipment

Problem:
DeadEye - Undetectable by vehicles, sentries, and infrared
DeadEye Pro -

Stopping Power - Increased weapon bullet damage
Stopping Power Pro - Extra damage against vehicles and sentries

Because Stopping Power has the ability to do extra damage to killstreaks, and I made it so that Locking-on targets faster became an attachment for Launchers that can lock-on, I've run out of ideas for what DeadEye Pro can be used.
Any ideas?

I've went ahead and changed the effects and renamed "Hardened":
PinPoint - Reduces weapon kick while firing
PinPoint Pro - Reduces flinch when damaged

I then removed the ability to become Immune to shell shocks into DeadEye Pro.

[ZaTaisho]

I have updated the Perk System and decided to only go with 4 Tiers instead of 3.
The 1st post has been modified to the applied changes, however, here is the link so you won't have to go anywhere.

= Perk Tier System =
i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy128/ZaTaisho/BO2TierSystem.png

I've re-added some of the perks that I removed from the previous list because of balance.
I think this set-up will not only grant players a lot more to decide, but also make the gameplay fast paced like MW2...hopefully!

= NOTE =
If people really don't like Stopping Power in this system, should I replace that with the ability to increase the weapon's maximum effective range? Where could I put this ability at?

[cmck]

I'm not sure about putting juggernaut and stopping power in different tiers. They are both clear favorites. If you don't use both I can see you being at a disadvantage and having the perk system boil down to everyone canceling out each other's second and third tiers and getting two more choices. Although it definitely forces the community to stop using stealth perks and action speed up perks, which could be what MW2 had that the other Cods lacked. BO and MW3 are not challenging the stealth perks enough, so people were now free to use them without having a disadvantage. I think this change might be worth it to change the style of the game back to what it was.

One other thing. How will Imposter work? Will it be only when firing to give the enemy clues about where you are or is it a permanent blackbird effect that the enemy can see your location at all times, but are hidden in plain sight making it only possible to tell the difference if you are in sight of them or are paying a lot of attention to the radar. I think it should be the second choice if it has to compete with juggernaut and I definitely want to try it out.

[ZaTaisho]

Ok, well I made a 2nd version of the perk system, this time with all the OVERPOWERED perks into 1 Tier.

= Version #2 =
i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy128/ZaTaisho/BO2PerkTierSystem.png

BTW, the perk "Imposter" perk can be quite useful for flanking...however I do need another Perk idea because I think the Imposter perk just isn't good enough. If I made the effect where you appear as an enemy friendly on the radar at all time or at least during Spy Planes, then everyone will know they you are still the enemy because you are blinking and not constant. If I made it so that you just appear as a friendly at all times, then just imagine EVERYONE using it at once...not a pretty picture.

If you got another idea that can replace "Imposter", let me know!

[cmck]

I like this one and the previous one too. I think that if I'm indecisive that means that you are really close to a good system. If I were to pick I would go with the previous one though. Balance is harder than I thought.

[Megaqwerty]

Came up with an idea today.

Why not have a counter to Hardened/Focus? Try having a perk or proficiency that doubles flinch inflicted by you or whatever value and it cancels with Hardened's effect. Take that, rail gunners!

[ZaTaisho]

Mar 23, 2012 16:47:27 GMT -5 cmck said:

I like this one and the previous one too. I think that if I'm indecisive that means that you are really close to a good system. If I were to pick I would go with the previous one though. Balance is harder than I thought.

I like the previous one as well, however, I am going to create a System that gets rid of ALL the perks that literally improves the weapon's performance like Stopping Power, Steady Aim, etc... I am trying very hard on what to do with stopping Power because I can put it as an equipment, however, the 4 Tier system will then be a bit OP...We'll see what I can do.

[ZaTaisho]

Mar 23, 2012 21:45:59 GMT -5 Megaqwerty said:

Came up with an idea today.

Why not have a counter to Hardened/Focus? Try having a perk or proficiency that doubles flinch inflicted by you or whatever value and it cancels with Hardened's effect. Take that, rail gunners!

I don't know why I didn't think of that! It feels like I should also take some ideas from Battlefield 3 as well, not saying that I will use their system, just to give out more ideas.

Thanks for the idea, I think that's great!
Any ideas for a name though?
Plus what about a Pro variant?

[Megaqwerty]

Well, since Stopping Power is already taken...how about Hydrostatic Shock? Or just Shock? (Shock would work great as a proficiency name, but not so much as a perk one.) Or continuing on that line of thought: Blitz or even Blitzkrieg.

Lemme think about a pro ability.

[ZaTaisho]

Mar 23, 2012 22:14:13 GMT -5 Megaqwerty said:

Well, since Stopping Power is already taken...how about Hydrostatic Shock? Or just Shock? (Shock would work great as a proficiency name, but not so much as a perk one.) Or continuing on that line of thought: Blitz or even Blitzkrieg.

Lemme think about a pro ability.

I called it "Onslaught" and I think the Pro ability should be to deal extra damage to vehicles and sentries.
As for Hardened (aka PinPoint), It will reduce flinch, but what could I use for it's pro ability? Should I make it so that you become immune to shell shocks or put it into Flak Jacket? I'm still working on it...
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Ok, so I need another idea for DeadEye Pro. I need something other than dealing extra damage to killstreaks and locking-on faster. What else can be added that could compliment this perk?

[cmck]

I have no really original ideas like flinch increases, but what about Dead eye pro canceling Impostor? Hardened should remove shell shock from air strikes and things of that type and I think that Flakjacket pro getting frag throwbacks and fire immunity is enough. Does this sound good?