asasa
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Post by asasa on Oct 16, 2012 17:20:05 GMT -5
I think it's funny when people say that the type 95 is terrible if you miss, and then act like the other gun doesn't miss at all, especially when you consider that as soon as the type 95 guy gets on target, the enemy is garunteed dead due to the non-existent recoil and crazy damage. Also hipfire is totally dependent on luck, and you could just use SA to un-nerf it anyways. docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlQvn6XaEsuqdEp2SGxjT1lWdU1WVGVrbm03M0NBQ3c#gid=1Here's a speadsheet that compares the type to everyone's beloved ACR under more realistic circumstances. As your spreadsheet shows... the T95 takes a much bigger hit from misses. And it has no way of constantly applying DVK. And it has no headshot bonuses. And it sucks long range. And it is NOT a laser.
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Oct 16, 2012 17:46:16 GMT -5
Neither is the ACR. Which means you can still miss.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Oct 16, 2012 18:52:15 GMT -5
You mean just like shotguns? uhhh....yeah....who was talking about shotguns? You're saying thats why its OP. Because sometimes you do get lucky. Like shotguns.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Oct 16, 2012 19:05:25 GMT -5
Neither is the ACR. Which means you can still miss. ...Seriously? Aside from the ACR having a tenth of the recoil... you can shoot slower and have perfect recentering every shot.... versus firing 1-2 accurate shot/burst
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Oct 16, 2012 20:05:09 GMT -5
Neither is the ACR. Which means you can still miss. ...Seriously? Aside from the ACR having a tenth of the recoil... you can shoot slower and have perfect recentering every shot.... versus firing 1-2 accurate shot/burst But then you are not getting the maximum RoF. And: symthic.com/mw3comparison.php?wep1=ACR+6.8&wep2=Type+95 Yes I know the recoil comparison is not perfect.
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Oct 16, 2012 23:13:07 GMT -5
...Seriously? Aside from the ACR having a tenth of the recoil... you can shoot slower and have perfect recentering every shot.... versus firing 1-2 accurate shot/burst I forget, That idea ia a little flawed. I can say you can shoot the PM-9 slower and have perfect recentering every shot.... versus firing 1-2 accurate shot/burst. In all seriousness, you can really only use that to your advantage with a macro or something similar.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Oct 16, 2012 23:24:32 GMT -5
...Seriously? Aside from the ACR having a tenth of the recoil... you can shoot slower and have perfect recentering every shot.... versus firing 1-2 accurate shot/burst I forget, That idea ia a little flawed. I can say you can shoot the PM-9 slower and have perfect recentering every shot.... versus firing 1-2 accurate shot/burst. In all seriousness, you can really only use that to your advantage with a macro or something similar. YoU serious man??? I do this all the time.. control the firerate based on the situation.
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 17, 2012 8:40:01 GMT -5
You have a lot of margin of error for the type 95, but it's rate of fire is punishing. All things equal, rate of fire wins gun fights. But 'all things equal' rarely happens. Maybe one every 20 or 30 encounters? IMHO, what wins gun fights is positioning. Not RoF. Most kills people get are from behind, the side, an angle...basically a shot where a person gets the first crack at killing someone. The perfect 'dual', where both sides get a perfectly equal face off...again, rarely happens.
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 17, 2012 10:30:56 GMT -5
But 'all things equal' rarely happens. Maybe one every 20 or 30 encounters? IMHO, what wins gun fights is positioning. Not RoF. Most kills people get are from behind, the side, an angle...basically a shot where a person gets the first crack at killing someone. The perfect 'dual', where both sides get a perfectly equal face off...again, rarely happens. okay yeah but they're comparing guns. They're not gonna toss random numbers on each side to account for reaction time or some crap. yeah i know, but at times, it becomes the ultimate in hair splitting nonsense when we are trying to make these blanket judgments on guns...how one gun is BETTER than the other, ....due to a 0.03 sec reaction time difference on an encounter that might happen one time a game.
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Post by blues27xx on Oct 18, 2012 1:12:48 GMT -5
I think it's funny when people say that the type 95 is terrible if you miss, and then act like the other gun doesn't miss at all, especially when you consider that as soon as the type 95 guy gets on target, the enemy is garunteed dead due to the non-existent recoil and crazy damage. Also hipfire is totally dependent on luck, and you could just use SA to un-nerf it anyways. docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlQvn6XaEsuqdEp2SGxjT1lWdU1WVGVrbm03M0NBQ3c#gid=1Here's a speadsheet that compares the type to everyone's beloved ACR under more realistic circumstances. As your spreadsheet shows... the T95 takes a much bigger hit from misses. And it has no way of constantly applying DVK. And it has no headshot bonuses. And it sucks long range. And it is NOT a laser. Somebody didn't open the other tabs. You have to miss a fair amount of bullets before it actually loses it's advantages, in most cases you would be dead before that point unless the other person has terrible aim. And of course we can't factor in DVK (which is random and stupid anyways), either player could be effected by DVK at any point during the gunfight, there's no way to simulate it. What if it's a CM901 user vs an ACR user, but the ACR guy gets shot from a third player during the gunfight, cause him to flinch and die? Does that make the CM a better gun? no. DVK would be pointless to factor in even if I could think of a way to do it. As for headshots, the type doesn't need a headshot multiplier, it already kills in two bullets. If both players hit the the head, the type still wins. I also conceded that the type sucks at range, but not as much as you would make it out to be. Again, read the spreadsheet. Before you say anything about recoil, go shoot the ACR into a wall, then shoot the type into a wall and see which has less recoil. I garuntee it will be the type. The only way to get around this is to burst fire, which drastically lowers your TTK (keep in mind that you are already at a large TTK disadvantage with the ACR).
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Post by blues27xx on Oct 18, 2012 1:21:37 GMT -5
Actually here:
Compare. Everybody thinks the ACR is an OMGWTFBBQ LAZOR, but it really isn't.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Oct 18, 2012 8:57:48 GMT -5
As your spreadsheet shows... the T95 takes a much bigger hit from misses. And it has no way of constantly applying DVK. And it has no headshot bonuses. And it sucks long range. And it is NOT a laser. Somebody didn't open the other tabs. You have to miss a fair amount of bullets before it actually loses it's advantages, in most cases you would be dead before that point unless the other person has terrible aim. And of course we can't factor in DVK (which is random and stupid anyways), either player could be effected by DVK at any point during the gunfight, there's no way to simulate it. What if it's a CM901 user vs an ACR user, but the ACR guy gets shot from a third player during the gunfight, cause him to flinch and die? Does that make the CM a better gun? no. DVK would be pointless to factor in even if I could think of a way to do it. As for headshots, the type doesn't need a headshot multiplier, it already kills in two bullets. If both players hit the the head, the type still wins. I also conceded that the type sucks at range, but not as much as you would make it out to be. Again, read the spreadsheet. Before you say anything about recoil, go shoot the ACR into a wall, then shoot the type into a wall and see which has less recoil. I garuntee it will be the type. The only way to get around this is to burst fire, which drastically lowers your TTK (keep in mind that you are already at a large TTK disadvantage with the ACR). 0-1 shot miss: T95 wins, immensely. No surprise. This is how it should be. 2 misses: Effective tie, slightly in favor of T95. 3+: ACR wins. How did I "not open the tabs"? Yes, headshots and DVK still matter.... how are you ignoring them? The ACR user can be inflicting DVK as the T95 user tries to hit them. Even if they DO get a headshot, it has no effect - while it will lower BTK to 2 for the ACR in that case. If you hit 2 shots in each burst long range, which would be lucky to hit consistently, thats 3 bursts. ~800ms? And the ACR user can hit every shot on a still target, or much more easily track a moving target. Full auto fire is much easier to work with.
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 18, 2012 9:10:11 GMT -5
Actually here: Compare. Everybody thinks the ACR is an OMGWTFBBQ LAZOR, but it really isn't. I have a post up on the board, where I looked at close to a hundred people and analyzed their performances with the ACR, versus their other top used AR guns. - The ACR is used a lot. In fact, in every sub group i looked at, the ACR was the number one used AR amongst the samples. - The ACR is not 'that' over-powered. While people did tend to perform a bit better with it, the numbers weren't that big. Depending on the sub-group, anywhere from 4% to 10% better (as measured by gun KD ratio). But that said, that tiny difference can be accounted for by some other factors. Such as, using the ACR the most, means more of a higher % of it's use will be with the gun fully loaded out. That gives a % bump. Also, the more you use a gun, the better you get with it. When you factor in these two numbers.... ...The actual REAL measurable performance people get with the ACR, over and above other guns people used, was somewhat minor. Perhaps not even statistically significant.
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Post by blues27xx on Oct 18, 2012 9:17:29 GMT -5
I don't think the ACR is overpowered, although it is annoying to get killed by only the ACR and maybe a few MP7's in any given match.
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Post by blues27xx on Oct 18, 2012 9:27:06 GMT -5
Somebody didn't open the other tabs. You have to miss a fair amount of bullets before it actually loses it's advantages, in most cases you would be dead before that point unless the other person has terrible aim. And of course we can't factor in DVK (which is random and stupid anyways), either player could be effected by DVK at any point during the gunfight, there's no way to simulate it. What if it's a CM901 user vs an ACR user, but the ACR guy gets shot from a third player during the gunfight, cause him to flinch and die? Does that make the CM a better gun? no. DVK would be pointless to factor in even if I could think of a way to do it. As for headshots, the type doesn't need a headshot multiplier, it already kills in two bullets. If both players hit the the head, the type still wins. I also conceded that the type sucks at range, but not as much as you would make it out to be. Again, read the spreadsheet. Before you say anything about recoil, go shoot the ACR into a wall, then shoot the type into a wall and see which has less recoil. I garuntee it will be the type. The only way to get around this is to burst fire, which drastically lowers your TTK (keep in mind that you are already at a large TTK disadvantage with the ACR). 0-1 shot miss: T95 wins, immensely. No surprise. This is how it should be. 2 misses: Effective tie, slightly in favor of T95. 3+: ACR wins. How did I "not open the tabs"? Yes, headshots and DVK still matter.... how are you ignoring them? The ACR user can be inflicting DVK as the T95 user tries to hit them. Even if they DO get a headshot, it has no effect - while it will lower BTK to 2 for the ACR in that case. If you hit 2 shots in each burst long range, which would be lucky to hit consistently, thats 3 bursts. ~800ms? And the ACR user can hit every shot on a still target, or much more easily track a moving target. Full auto fire is much easier to work with. Actually it's more along the lines of 3+ BURSTS. I honestly don't know what to say to you about headshots. The T95 CLEARLY doesn't need a headshot multiplier. Even if the ACR gets all headshots and the T95 gets all body shots, the T95 still kills faster. You know, it would be much smarter to argue something that actually matters and is relevant, like the ACR having a faster reload, thus being more flexible, instead of trying to go herp derp recoil and headshots.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Oct 18, 2012 9:52:21 GMT -5
With 2/3 shots? Lets see...
2 shots first burst. 2 shots second burst [4 hits] Hit, IRRELEVANT, IRRELEVANT OR Miss, Hit, Irrelevant OR Miss, Miss, Hit
No matter what happens, 1 more hit still killed them. 3 bursts...
Does it need one? No... but I dont even know what to say to you as you continuously ignore an advantage the ACR has just because it wont put it ahead of the in a 0/1 miss scenario. It still shrinks the gap... which is important. The ACR just needs one headshot to lower BTK to 2. Then the difference is ~450RPM effective versus ~600RPM effective.
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Oct 18, 2012 11:47:14 GMT -5
Guns generally aren't op because you so rarely come into a situation where ttk matters. Yeah right, PP90m1 Rapid Fire are so uncommon.
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Oct 18, 2012 12:07:08 GMT -5
Barett Fiddy cal becomes a reliable full auto when prone at the firecap.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Oct 18, 2012 12:10:38 GMT -5
it's among the better ones yeah, but its not nearly as overwhelming as people make it out to be. People who use a PP90M1 will play the same way as someone with a PM9 or MP7 or P90 or whateverthefu ck. IT MATTERS, YES. But in cod, the choice of gun matters a lot less than the situation between players. overused =/= overpowered. guns in cod can practically all be seperated based on movement speed and whether or not theyre automatic. When I die in cod, it's very rarely just because the other guy had a better gun. How often you get a kill OR dont die, however, is very dependent on the weapon. How many times do players escape Famas fire in BO, versus Enfield fire? Or UZI versus 74u?
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Oct 18, 2012 12:13:28 GMT -5
MP5 vs 74u is noticeable at medium range because of recoil. MP5 kicks up, while 74u just bounces around a bit. Hence it causes me TOFOKINDIE!
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banana
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Post by banana on Oct 9, 2013 17:10:28 GMT -5
Flinch is controlled by these dvars: bg_viewKickMax "90" bg_viewKickMin "5" bg_viewKickRandom "0.4" bg_viewKickScale "0.2" Description for bg_viewKickScale from CoD4: The scale to apply to the damage done to calculate damage view kick. So how important is damage? Is the difference between something like 45 and 40 significant? I'm asking because the code doesn't have a formula to explain how it's calculated; just numbers
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Oct 9, 2013 19:51:39 GMT -5
Holy necro sandwich, Batman
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Post by jaedrik on Oct 9, 2013 20:08:41 GMT -5
I thought this had something to do with his recent video about custom and listen servers. I almost got excited there.
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