richardj
True Bro
For the love of gawd, stop whining!
Posts: 230
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Post by richardj on Nov 27, 2012 21:58:44 GMT -5
I'm not sure why you'd calculate an ROI for Scorestreaks using the score needed to earn it and the average score it provides. They're not tied to classes, so you have selected them going into the match. They're not part of pick 10, so there's no real opportunity cost. Essentially, if you were to calculate ROI, the investment is equal for each scorestreak, and irrelevant to the calculation. The return would be the value the scorestreak provides and the frequency at which you can earn it per match. Opportunity cost is different then ROI. For ROI, you have to invest (in this case, get score streak points and use them) and then get a return (more scorestreak points/kills). The opportunity cost would be the cost of choosing one scorestreak over another. Like, UAVs could help the whole team but maybe you could have selected a higher reward and gotten that.
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bravo2zero
True Bro
I'm super excited guys
Posts: 10,342
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Post by bravo2zero on Nov 28, 2012 4:19:56 GMT -5
You can boost and then deploy the cluster. In fact if you aren't doing that it's going to be hard to get any kills at all Yeah this speeds up the cluster missles finding their scurrying targets. you can constantly get multi kills this way! 1. Aim 2. Boost 3. Cluster 123 Easy as ABC. Shamone!
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Post by TheHawkNY on Nov 28, 2012 16:12:52 GMT -5
I'm not sure why you'd calculate an ROI for Scorestreaks using the score needed to earn it and the average score it provides. They're not tied to classes, so you have selected them going into the match. They're not part of pick 10, so there's no real opportunity cost. Essentially, if you were to calculate ROI, the investment is equal for each scorestreak, and irrelevant to the calculation. The return would be the value the scorestreak provides and the frequency at which you can earn it per match. Opportunity cost is different then ROI. For ROI, you have to invest (in this case, get score streak points and use them) and then get a return (more scorestreak points/kills). The opportunity cost would be the cost of choosing one scorestreak over another. Like, UAVs could help the whole team but maybe you could have selected a higher reward and gotten that. I would not consider getting scorestreak points and using them an investment, nor would I consider the scorestreak points from using a scorestreak reward a return. Your scorestreak points are not an investment like money. You do not have the option to save them for a later date, or to use them for anything other than the scorestreaks you have selected. The scorestreak points that you earn from the kills from scorestreaks are of very little value. Yes, every once in a while the UAV points will earn you a Hunter Killer. Yes, some of the very high killstreaks may be able to get you to the other very high killstreaks. But the system is really much closer to how killstreaks didn't stack in Black Ops than how they stacked in other iterations of the game. The primary value of the scorestreaks is how they help you win, not earn higher scorestreaks.
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Post by funcrusher on Nov 28, 2012 16:49:34 GMT -5
Do the guardian and sentry gun have a lifespan (as in if they aren't shot and destroyed)? I know is mw3 the sentry timed out fairly quick.
In my opinion the sentry gun is the best kill streak. I end up with roughly ten kills out of it and its low point streak to unlock makes is a beast. I play kill confirmed and usually end up with no less than 40 kills running uav, lightning strike, sentry gun.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Nov 28, 2012 18:25:13 GMT -5
Do the guardian and sentry gun have a lifespan (as in if they aren't shot and destroyed)? I know is mw3 the sentry timed out fairly quick. In my opinion the sentry gun is the best kill streak. I end up with roughly ten kills out of it and its low point streak to unlock makes is a beast. I play kill confirmed and usually end up with no less than 40 kills running uav, lightning strike, sentry gun. How is that possible? How could you average 10 kills with a Sentry Gun? Particularly in Kill Confirmed, where if you were to be surprised and killed by it once, there's no objective compelling you to go in that direction again?
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Post by funcrusher on Nov 28, 2012 20:23:01 GMT -5
It's all in the placement, that or playing retards I guess. Placing it in the center of the map and babysitting it will do wonders. You rack up kills yourself defending it as the retards that just died by it become hell bent on solely destroying it. Max effectiveness on meltdown, standoff, and raid. Put a sentry on the roof of the house in the middle of standoff and see if it doesn't get ten kills easily. I went 59-9 on that map.
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Post by funcrusher on Nov 28, 2012 20:26:48 GMT -5
You're part of the 1% mousey. I'm typically more worried about blackhats.
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Post by funcrusher on Nov 28, 2012 20:33:51 GMT -5
Because in terms of the tactical slot people have a hardon for shock charges and blackhats. No one bothers with emp's. I'm not saying they're bad, I set up a class myself with an emp once I realized how strong sentries and guardians were.
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sh58
True Bro
Posts: 10,277
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Post by sh58 on Nov 28, 2012 21:05:12 GMT -5
Yeah no way 10 kills per sentry. I'm on about 2 kills per sentry with a reasonable sample size
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Post by funcrusher on Nov 28, 2012 21:26:14 GMT -5
I'll save my next game I get a sentry. 2 kills? Do you set it up facing a wall and run away?
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Post by confuzzled on Nov 29, 2012 5:09:44 GMT -5
i really think the blackhats overrated lately. I mean whenever my equipment is hacked i can dispose of it pretty quickly (or just kill the guy who I know is nearby, but that sometimes goes horribly wrong). Really my only incentive to use them is for the UAV effect, which I never need since I always run a launcher or ghost (or will when i freaking unlock ghost) Wrong on this. EMP grenades are great but the PDA is the best equipment in the game by far... Hack equipment Destroy spy planes, counter uavs and any choppers....even behind cover... Destroy guardians and sentries through walls... Get stuck care packages.... Snag care packages in a hot zone Steal friendly or enemy care packages...... Grab your own care package instantly from afar.... I had a guy rage on me hard for stealing his guardian lol I felt bad and let him keep his next care package... A PDA with care package and engineer is the best class setup in the game right now...Synergy is off the charts....I'd add and fhj to this as well since ghost tends to suck and shooting down uavs and care package choppers gives you kill streaks...... The only bad care package drop is an RCA car or hunter killer drone.... Everything else is money...plus engineer allows you to change them....
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Post by malurth on Nov 29, 2012 6:11:59 GMT -5
Fun fact: hacking equips with black hat gives you +50 to your score streak too. So two hacks and it's basically a kill.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Nov 29, 2012 18:35:08 GMT -5
Serious question - how often does hacked equipment get you guys kills/assists?
I've been using EMP Grenades, which are pretty awesome. They have an enormous radius, where I see equipment with Engineer and just chuck them, I've actually been surprised that I've hit things. They also get used more quickly than PDA and can take out multiple pieces of equipment at once, which is useful with all of the Shock Charge + Betty traps. They also, you know, EMP enemies, and get you EMP Assist points.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Nov 29, 2012 18:43:40 GMT -5
I've gotten 29 sentry kills in a single game before. Sentrybro is also pro at making spawn logic more stable (the game generally doesn't like spawning enemies in front of him), enabling traps that wouldn't be sustainable otherwise. Easily the best non-UAV streak for the cost, as far as I'm concerned. It's easily countered, but then you've forced your opponents to use garbage Black Hats or EMP nades. It's a win win
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Post by TheHawkNY on Nov 30, 2012 12:07:19 GMT -5
Serious question - how often does hacked equipment get you guys kills/assists? I've been using EMP Grenades, which are pretty awesome. They have an enormous radius, where I see equipment with Engineer and just chuck them, I've actually been surprised that I've hit things. They also get used more quickly than PDA and can take out multiple pieces of equipment at once, which is useful with all of the Shock Charge + Betty traps. They also, you know, EMP enemies, and get you EMP Assist points. That surprise may come from the fact that the explosion ignores map geometry. i.e. it blows up through walls Is that true for enemies too, or just equipment?
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sh58
True Bro
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Post by sh58 on Nov 30, 2012 12:16:36 GMT -5
Well that's cool
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asasa
True Bro
fuck
Posts: 4,255
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Post by asasa on Nov 30, 2012 12:25:02 GMT -5
You can boost and then deploy the cluster. In fact if you aren't doing that it's going to be hard to get any kills at all Yeah this speeds up the cluster missles finding their scurrying targets. you can constantly get multi kills this way! 1. Aim 2. Boost 3. Cluster 123 Easy as ABC. Shamone! Are you sure it actually speeds up the cluster? I do this already, but it doesnt seem much if any faster. I'd assume they just have a set velocity on the cluster, so boosting wouldnt matter
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sh58
True Bro
Posts: 10,277
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Post by sh58 on Nov 30, 2012 13:47:56 GMT -5
Boost speeds up the original missile, not the cluster
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richardj
True Bro
For the love of gawd, stop whining!
Posts: 230
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Post by richardj on Nov 30, 2012 18:04:32 GMT -5
Opportunity cost is different then ROI. For ROI, you have to invest (in this case, get score streak points and use them) and then get a return (more scorestreak points/kills). The opportunity cost would be the cost of choosing one scorestreak over another. Like, UAVs could help the whole team but maybe you could have selected a higher reward and gotten that. I would not consider getting scorestreak points and using them an investment, nor would I consider the scorestreak points from using a scorestreak reward a return. Your scorestreak points are not an investment like money. You do not have the option to save them for a later date, or to use them for anything other than the scorestreaks you have selected. The scorestreak points that you earn from the kills from scorestreaks are of very little value. Yes, every once in a while the UAV points will earn you a Hunter Killer. Yes, some of the very high killstreaks may be able to get you to the other very high killstreaks. But the system is really much closer to how killstreaks didn't stack in Black Ops than how they stacked in other iterations of the game. The primary value of the scorestreaks is how they help you win, not earn higher scorestreaks. I understand your point but for the purpose of the thread and for the disuccsion, you have to earn and then spend scorestreak points to use a scorestreak (investment). Helping you win is a return as is how many kills or scorestreak points, whatever, you get with them. The hunter killer drone and care package are both obtainable at 6 kills in TDM if I recall correctly. The drone gets me about 0.8 kills per use and the care package gives a variety of return but the drone and RCXD are both in that 0.8-1 kill per use whereas the UAV helps he team to win plus gets me an average of 25 assist points (same as drone or RCXD). Hence, because of the more efficient returns and the limited investment needed, I go UAV and care package as my first two killstreaks in TDM. That was my way of keeping it on topic and explaining the topic as a whole. Does anyone have any more gems to share? I know the Sentry Gun is pretty awesome a lot of the time.
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richardj
True Bro
For the love of gawd, stop whining!
Posts: 230
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Post by richardj on Nov 30, 2012 18:10:52 GMT -5
I would not consider getting scorestreak points and using them an investment, nor would I consider the scorestreak points from using a scorestreak reward a return. Your scorestreak points are not an investment like money. You do not have the option to save them for a later date, or to use them for anything other than the scorestreaks you have selected. The scorestreak points that you earn from the kills from scorestreaks are of very little value. Yes, every once in a while the UAV points will earn you a Hunter Killer. Yes, some of the very high killstreaks may be able to get you to the other very high killstreaks. But the system is really much closer to how killstreaks didn't stack in Black Ops than how they stacked in other iterations of the game. The primary value of the scorestreaks is how they help you win, not earn higher scorestreaks. I understand your point but for the purpose of the thread and for the disuccsion, you have to earn and then spend scorestreak points to use a scorestreak (investment). Helping you win is a return as is how many kills or scorestreak points, whatever, you get with them. Looking at the lowest scorestreak rewards: the UAV helps the team to win plus gets me an average of 25 assist points (same as drone or RCXD but winning is the ultimate return). It can also give someone on the other team 75 points to shoot it down. The hunter killer drone and care package are both obtainable at 6 kills in TDM if I recall correctly. The worst I can get in a care package are the RCXD and drone. The drone and RCXD get me about 0.9 kills per use. Getting more kills than deaths is the point of TDM so they both help the cause but marginally so. Hence, because of the more efficient returns and the limited investment needed, I go UAV and care package as my first two killstreaks in TDM. They are cheap to get and get decent return. That was my way of keeping it on topic and explaining the topic as a whole. Does anyone have any more gems to share? I know the Sentry Gun is pretty awesome a lot of the time. In kill confirmed though, someone has to be there to get the tags to get the most out of it. I would think that the war machine wold be awesome in that game mode.
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 20, 2012 4:58:44 GMT -5
With only 50 points difference, Lightning Strike >> Hellstorm. Hellstorm is mainly effective against noobs. As players are de-noobified, they realize that Hellstrom is not scary after all. The time between it shows up on mini-map and raining on your head is long enough for you to put sugar and cream into your coffee, stir it well, take a sip, and then run inside cover... Refresh this topic after recent nerf. Bros, how do you feel about Lightning Strike after the added 750ms delay? Would you still consider it superior to Hellstorm? I have not had a chance to play much after the nerf. I now speculate that their effectiveness are more situational: Hellstorm is great when the enemies are clustered together, while Lightning Strike is more effective when they are scattered. Also, put them both on might be a viable strategy. Since they are so close, most of the time if you earn one you'll earn the other too. Unleash the Lightning Strike first then Hellstorm the enemy spawn might net you enough points within striking distance to high killstreaks.
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bravo2zero
True Bro
I'm super excited guys
Posts: 10,342
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Post by bravo2zero on Dec 20, 2012 5:51:44 GMT -5
Also, put them both on might be a viable strategy. Since they are so close, most of the time if you earn one you'll earn the other too. Unleash the Lightning Strike first then Hellstorm the enemy spawn might net you enough points within striking distance to high killstreaks. This is ruthless and cunning. I like it!
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Post by TheHawkNY on Dec 28, 2012 12:33:53 GMT -5
That's what I do. Make sure to wait a second before calling in the Hellstorm so you can see where the enemies respawn.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Dec 28, 2012 13:04:14 GMT -5
I think they're useful for defending objectives more than anything else. The higher killstreaks are so much more efficient from a kill generating standpoint that hellstorm spawnkilling doesn't seem worth it if you can earn even one VSAT/game.
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