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Post by jaedrik on Dec 30, 2012 22:02:57 GMT -5
WOOOOOOOO YEAAAAH
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Post by Marvel4 on Dec 30, 2012 22:04:38 GMT -5
Not too bad when you're host.
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42
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Post by 42 on Dec 30, 2012 22:42:06 GMT -5
No, the truth must be told!
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Robospy
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Look at that lovely cock
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Post by Robospy on Dec 30, 2012 23:01:07 GMT -5
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42
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Post by 42 on Dec 31, 2012 0:05:27 GMT -5
I know, I was agreeing with you, you dirty rooster.
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Post by UrbaneVirtuoso on Dec 31, 2012 0:53:30 GMT -5
The knifing bit on Shipment is lol.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Dec 31, 2012 1:58:37 GMT -5
You guys are comparing apples and oranges. No one on here knows how far away you guys live from each other. Plus the fact that the networking from an ancient game and a brand new one would be different, along with the differences of playing on PC vs. console. At least you guys posted this in Hey Guy since this video would have absolutely nothing to do with the lag that's happening in BO 2. The only thing is this should be renamed "random scrandom garbage bad kids vs. random garbage nobody trying to play an old COD with LAG." Actually, the videos illustrate exactly what they say they do. You're just confused about what lag compensation is and isn't. The system is the same in BO2 as it was in CoD4, and every game in between. The videos illustrate how practical it is to hit people on a "dumb" client model (not practical at all). With compensation the hits would be late (in heavy lag), but they would happen, and that's really the choice you have. You can either let players score late hits (get killed around corners) or have no idea where they are at all. Lots of the blame the playerbase heaps on lag compensation is better placed simply on lag, which is more a result of matchmaking algorithms (which have changed) than anything else. "Get rid of lag compensation!" Is the opposite of a fix, and the only reason anyone says that is out of ignorance of what lag compensation actually is. Educating people about the difference is something the videos do in a pretty straightforward way. Nobody wants to play a game like that.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Dec 31, 2012 2:08:50 GMT -5
Did the troll delete his post or did you just copy that quote from another thread?
These vids make the game look funny. Yesterday I was having some fun kill confirmed games. One of them we were put into a game where the lag was hilariously similar to the vids shown here. People were teleporting all over the place. You had to pre-pre-fire to get kills. One dude was running around going knife only. I think an AGR was involved. It really was a good time.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Dec 31, 2012 2:16:27 GMT -5
It was here when I posted. He must have deleted it.
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asasa
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fuck
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Post by asasa on Dec 31, 2012 2:24:15 GMT -5
You guys are comparing apples and oranges. No one on here knows how far away you guys live from each other. Plus the fact that the networking from an ancient game and a brand new one would be different, along with the differences of playing on PC vs. console. At least you guys posted this in Hey Guy since this video would have absolutely nothing to do with the lag that's happening in BO 2. The only thing is this should be renamed "random scrandom garbage bad kids vs. random garbage nobody trying to play an old COD with LAG." Actually, the videos illustrate exactly what they say they do. You're just confused about what lag compensation is and isn't. The system is the same in BO2 as it was in CoD4, and every game in between. The videos illustrate how practical it is to hit people on a "dumb" client model (not practical at all). With compensation the hits would be late (in heavy lag), but they would happen, and that's really the choice you have. You can either let players score late hits (get killed around corners) or have no idea where they are at all. Lots of the blame the playerbase heaps on lag compensation is better placed simply on lag, which is more a result of matchmaking algorithms (which have changed) than anything else. "Get rid of lag compensation!" Is the opposite of a fix, and the only reason anyone says that is out of ignorance of what lag compensation actually is. Educating people about the difference is something the videos do in a pretty straightforward way. Nobody wants to play a game like that. Im confused, I had though there were 2 parts to lag.. prevention. Lag comp, which matches the hitbox with the model And ? that other one that applies artificial ping to players to balance connections
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Dec 31, 2012 2:33:42 GMT -5
Im confused, I had though there were 2 parts to lag.. prevention. Lag comp, which matches the hitbox with the model And ? that other one that applies artificial ping to players to balance connections The only player that gets artificial ping is the host, and only under certain circumstances. Originally if the average ping in the lobby got over some threshold (it was like 110, I don't recall exactly. Marvel or toys might), it applied the average ping to the host. In MW3 this was (allegedly, according to Robert Bowling) changed to the lowest ping of any of the clients applied to the host. I'm not sure which model BO2 uses, but up to this point artificial ping was never applied to anyone but the host.
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toysrme
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Post by toysrme on Dec 31, 2012 5:24:49 GMT -5
iirc it was always coded as an if/then statement. *if* 51% of the lobby has a ping over 110ms (or 120?), then the average will be applied to the host. what many people don't understand is that all clients & the host himself has their own artificial lag implemented. on console this is reported as 20-30-40ms at all times. what this leads too is the passing popular term called "host compensation". this is seen when the MAJORITY of the lobby has relatively fast connections, but a handful of very laggy people enter the lobby. now the host has the artificial lag applied to his base lag and suddenly can shift from being the fastest person in his lobby (no compensation) to one of the laggiest people in his lobby (average comp + base lag).
i haven't seen anyone decompressing the files or the zillion patches on console, so i wont comment on it currently beyond "it didn't change for many years, why would it change on a whim?", which i also counter with "so many things have changed for the first time ever after many years".
hitboxes are infallible. they are located in YOUR local world. you either hit it or you do not. any faults do not lie with "hit detection".
networking (especially in regards to COD, and quake/id game engines in general) the following: the game REALLY needs data no later than every 6th frame that is prepared 4-6 frames is the threshold between "ok" and "good players whining" 3 frames is very solid networking
network traffic consists of the following information: all known world data is extrapolated to your system's time what you view is interpolated data where your renders are buffered information between network updates to smooth the game world
Lag compensation exists to level the playing field, it does this and does it well. it is nothing more than the host checking timestamps attached to the client systems. the real world matters for nothing. all that matters is when your system sends the chosen host information on what it's doing. what is the timestamp on the clients. the winner is the person with the lowest timestamp.
i played FPS games BEFORE there was effective lag compensation and DURING the first real attempts at introducing working lag compensation to FPS games to level the playing field. fire up Unreal/Unreal Tournament istagib and play; then try ZeroPing mode. In unreal the fastest ping wins 100% of the time. With ZeroPing, players would sometimes continue playing for many SECONDS before the hosts could sort out "who actually killed who" and warp all parties "back into the past" to continue on. Four, five six seven seconds and THEN get warped back to reality. keep in mind now we're talking about levels of time... 150ms for knife ing, 800ms total.
it's not bad, you simply must have realistic expectations when playing console. the developers like david-headuphisass-tartarsauce continue to run ancient network update rates (20/30 on systems that run 40-54fps) claiming they have a large negative impact to the frame rate because the games are CPU and network adapter bound. (which anyone with a stupid USB key can prove otherwise... ive done it...)
i digress...... you also get into the shear amount of time it takes to kill someone NOW is many times higher than it was years ago.
years ago, every gun killed in 1-2-3 hits and the aiming system was easy and most of them could kill an unlimited number of people lined up and high penetration damage. where now we're dealing with 3-6 hit kill weapons with worse penalties for missing shots.
*edit* explained the opening statement better
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tiesieman
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mental lagger
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Post by tiesieman on Dec 31, 2012 5:33:20 GMT -5
I.E. it's time for new consoles. Not because of the actual need of improved hardware (that too), but more to have developers step their freaking game up
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toysrme
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Post by toysrme on Dec 31, 2012 5:57:37 GMT -5
i do not agree with the logic behind your conclusion. it breed the same ineptitude that many of them have now. the conclusion is correct.
there is absolutely zero reason for the current hardware to be limited to what is the same network rates we were using on 33.6/v34 dial-up hardware 16 years ago.
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tiesieman
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mental lagger
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Post by tiesieman on Dec 31, 2012 6:35:40 GMT -5
Sure, but you probably know better than me developers aren't gonna change that any time soon. New hardware ought to shake things up a bit
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Dec 31, 2012 6:41:37 GMT -5
Well, that sure looks fun. Reminds me of BF1942.
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Tyzerra
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Stay sharp.
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Post by Tyzerra on Dec 31, 2012 7:23:29 GMT -5
I like Jaedrik's clips the best. They give the perfect demonstration that without lag comp, you have to aim like 5 feet ahead of everyone to hit them. I learnt my lesson about lag comp a few weeks ago, but these videos (especially Jaedrik's) show off PERFECTLY why lag comp needs to exist.
And for those of you who complain about lag comp: you're complaining about the wrong thing.
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Post by bm01 on Dec 31, 2012 9:23:13 GMT -5
It was quite obvious to me that lag comp is needed, but it's nice to see what actually happens without it. Anyway, how did you remove it?
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 31, 2012 9:29:49 GMT -5
I learnt my lesson about lag comp a few weeks ago, but these videos (especially Jaedrik's) show off PERFECTLY why lag comp needs to exist. And for those of you who complain about lag comp: you're complaining about the wrong thing.one down.....many more to go
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42
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Post by 42 on Dec 31, 2012 10:23:35 GMT -5
Eh, people are always going to complain about something that isn't entirely logical. In the next Call of Duty iteration it will something else or the same thing entirely.
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42
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Post by 42 on Dec 31, 2012 10:41:29 GMT -5
Actually, I don't think that is that hard to do. Marvel can probably figure that out in a heartbeat.
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Post by Suro Atiros on Dec 31, 2012 11:50:35 GMT -5
Do ppl still play COD4? I think I lost my copy years ago... I'd have to buy it again from Steam if I wanted to play again. Those youtube vids sure brought back good memories.
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Dec 31, 2012 11:53:10 GMT -5
Yesh they do. Propably going to be hard to get a lobby outside of TDM, Dom and SnD though.
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42
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Post by 42 on Dec 31, 2012 11:55:21 GMT -5
CoD4 is stronger in numbers than some other CoDs, especially on pc. I would rather play it than mw2 or mw3
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wwaa
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Post by wwaa on Dec 31, 2012 12:10:44 GMT -5
on PC? I play COD4 many times per month. game is installed and ready to play. to be honest it is more fun than BO2.
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Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Dec 31, 2012 12:18:08 GMT -5
CoD4 is stronger in numbers than some other CoDs, especially on pc. I would rather play it than mw2 or mw3 Probably only on PC. At least on Xbox, CoD4 isn't even in the Top 20 most played XBL games, while MW2 was #10 last time I checked. (BOII is #1, of course, while MW3 and BO are #5 and #6, respectively.)
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 31, 2012 12:29:10 GMT -5
CoD4 is stronger in numbers than some other CoDs, especially on pc. I would rather play it than mw2 or mw3 Probably only on PC. At least on Xbox, CoD4 isn't even in the Top 20 most played XBL games, while MW2 was #10 last time I checked. (BOII is #1, of course, while MW3 and BO are #5 and #6, respectively.) In all fairness, please correct me if i am wrong....but if i went and got a group of fifteen bros together for some MW2 gaming on the PC...wouldn't that alone be enough people to bump the game into the top 5 ranking?
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Dec 31, 2012 12:30:22 GMT -5
Probably only on PC. At least on Xbox, CoD4 isn't even in the Top 20 most played XBL games, while MW2 was #10 last time I checked. (BOII is #1, of course, while MW3 and BO are #5 and #6, respectively.) In all fairness, please correct me if i am wrong....but if i went and got a group of fifteen bros together for some MW2 gaming on the PC...wouldn't that alone be enough people to bump the game into the top 5 ranking? Nope. Unless it was hovering around top 5 anyway.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 31, 2012 13:59:04 GMT -5
In all fairness, please correct me if i am wrong....but if i went and got a group of fifteen bros together for some MW2 gaming on the PC...wouldn't that alone be enough people to bump the game into the top 5 ranking? uh outside of cod, pc gaming is incredibly popular. CoD only lost popularity since mw2 because that was when IW decided they wouldnt have dedicated servers on PC (which is standard there) I know, I was joking. WoW has a player base of like what? Nine million people? I don't know what that translates into nightly numbers? 400,000 online every night? CoD has got to the biggest though. All the games, PS3 and XB...the base has to be around 40 million people. Even nightly numbers, BO2 alone, PS3 and XB, is probably around 500,000 every night, which means probably over a million users per day. Throw in all the other CoD's still being played on like XBox Live........ Lots of game playing. For the consoles, online playing....there is CoD, and then everything else.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 31, 2012 14:16:16 GMT -5
yeah I guess. It's a shame halo isn't really up there any more. Matchmaking wouldnt be worth sh it if they never came along. I have Halo, just no one will play with me because i am terrible. Even Witty. He saw my KD and other stats....and now always goes on 'offline mode' whenever he sees me sign on
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