fpsdredd
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Always working on the FPS metagame
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Post by fpsdredd on Oct 21, 2013 14:27:00 GMT -5
Should be mentioned that increasing the damage does more than just reduce the BTK.
It increases reliability to kill at the current # of BTK (bullets shooting through objects results in higher BTK value).
It increases odds of a lowered BTK due to already damaged enemies. e.g. current gun does 99 damage, has highest chance of 1 hit kill without actually doing 1 hk baseline. comparison gun does 51 damage, same number of bullets to kill but little chance of getting that same 1 hit kill.
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42
True Bro
Bingo Bango Bongo
Posts: 1,588
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Post by 42 on Oct 21, 2013 14:31:53 GMT -5
I'm betting it's going to be #4 or quickly become that.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Oct 21, 2013 14:44:46 GMT -5
This is exactly the sort of thing people need to see to evaluate the actual odds of getting anything out of the perk. The fact that the majority of the column C and D values are identical should give pause to the people thinking Deadeye is the second coming of Stopping Power, unless IW deliberately balances around it by picking damage values and range behavior that deliberately stay in the relatively small ranges where one proc makes a difference.
I think your four possibilities are spot on, though the last one seems most likely so far. Balancing all the damage, range, headshot multipliers etc such that all or even most guns constantly stay in that "one proc makes a difference" butter zone seems like a tall order for the people who couldn't nerf FMG9s the first time.
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fpsdredd
True Bro
Always working on the FPS metagame
Posts: 495
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Post by fpsdredd on Oct 21, 2013 14:50:26 GMT -5
The idea of using the strongest sniper and using it as a rail gun to shoot through walls is kinda interesting
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Post by -3055- on Oct 21, 2013 14:56:02 GMT -5
I'm still scared. Someone reassure me even further. Tell me I don't have to stay in this room if I don't want to
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42
True Bro
Bingo Bango Bongo
Posts: 1,588
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Post by 42 on Oct 21, 2013 15:35:04 GMT -5
I'm still scared. Someone reassure me even further. Tell me I don't have to stay in this room if I don't want to If you're scared of this, then I don't want to even know what you think of Stopping Power
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Oct 21, 2013 16:26:02 GMT -5
Imagine this: Deadeye gives all weapons a random chance of having its power boosted by 1.4.
Now imagine all non-shotgun/sniper rifles have these damage profiles:
* 71 - 35 * 35 - 24 * 24 - 20
The only weapons that would ever have tangible benefits from deadeye are the ones with the 24 - 20 damage profile, and only at range.
Yay
On a side note, those who fear deadeye have good reason to in my humble opinion. Remembering the FMG9 akmibo "nerf," we can all trust IW to Foxtrot this up. Either it will be too good because the chance multiplier is too high, or it won't do jack shit.
Edit: I suck at math.
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exxtrooper
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Who the fuck is Mousey
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Post by exxtrooper on Oct 21, 2013 16:52:35 GMT -5
Gonna make a class with this perk and call it fedora overload.
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Post by xFEARtheSHIELDx on Oct 21, 2013 17:40:20 GMT -5
With the ability to balance perks thru point cost, would it really be THAT bad if they just brought back Stopping Power?? I mean, if it's overused, just raise the cost to 6 or even 8 points. Why would that be game-breaking?
How many of you would take a 6-7pt MW2-copy stopping power perk in this game, knowing how much you'd be giving up? Maybe on a couple classes, but I don't think it'd be too overused...
Nice work on the spreadsheet, btw.
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Post by jaedrik on Oct 21, 2013 18:55:04 GMT -5
With the ability to balance perks thru point cost, would it really be THAT bad if they just brought back Stopping Power?? I mean, if it's overused, just raise the cost to 6 or even 8 points. Why would that be game-breaking? How many of you would take a 6-7pt MW2-copy stopping power perk in this game, knowing how much you'd be giving up? Maybe on a couple classes, but I don't think it'd be too overused... Nice work on the spreadsheet, btw. I'd much rather they just make every gun default Stopping Power tier damage.
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Oct 21, 2013 19:47:11 GMT -5
That doesn't really work because those damage profiles haven't ever existed and aren't really functional to begin with (24-20?). I mean the whole point of that spreadsheet is to show that for deadeye to actually mesh well across the board it would severely limit the possibilities for everything else in the game (and iw has made it pretty clear they don't care much for balance). But yeah I'm with most people in that I think that its gonna be absolute crap. They cant afford a large multiplier because shotgun complaints would be through the roof; and the lower it is, the more reliant it is on a dice roll, which is never a good thing unless your favorite part about cod is having excuses to blame failure on. I'm well aware of that. I just thought it'd be funny if IW busted a troll move like that. Seriously though, I'm expecting this to be crap and overused at the same time. Yet people will be thoroughly convinced that it makes a huge difference in their killing power because placebo.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Oct 21, 2013 23:18:57 GMT -5
Watch shotguns still suck(Like Mao-C).
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 2:55:53 GMT -5
With the ability to balance perks thru point cost, would it really be THAT bad if they just brought back Stopping Power?? I mean, if it's overused, just raise the cost to 6 or even 8 points. Why would that be game-breaking? How many of you would take a 6-7pt MW2-copy stopping power perk in this game, knowing how much you'd be giving up? Maybe on a couple classes, but I don't think it'd be too overused... Nice work on the spreadsheet, btw. I actually think it would be nice to have some sort of high point cost perk in each tier of perks. I think it would be a satisfactory middle ground for people that prefer CaC to have strong class defining perks and people that liked Blops2's system where everything was equal. I suppose you could argue that you can "create" class defining perks by just choosing several of the lower cost perks but having some sort of strong, expensive perk in each tier would spice things up a bit. And like you described there's more flexibility here compared to Blops2 since I'm assuming they can adjust the perk costs post-launch.
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Post by herts_joatmon on Oct 22, 2013 8:04:47 GMT -5
As people mention in another thread, for now my plan is only to use it in my specialists classes as with most of the 3+ point perks. Its only going to become effective once you have a few kills under your belt so why cripple your starting set up when those 5 points can be used on something that will actually have full effect as soon as your spawn. I'll be wanting to unlock as meany class slots as possible as soon as possible as I can see myself having to switch out classes regularly depending on what up im against. If you run specialist then the cost of the perks become irrelevant.
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markopolo
True Bro
Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
Posts: 5,567
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Post by markopolo on Oct 22, 2013 15:34:22 GMT -5
IMHO.......
not worth it
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Post by netherwind on Oct 23, 2013 1:39:21 GMT -5
My guess is:
"Weapon damage will use very specific numbers so that they can make use of a single damage boost (effectively accomplishing the same thing as long as the chances don't blow)"
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Post by -3055- on Oct 23, 2013 7:15:34 GMT -5
The perk would be completely fair if it just increased range. For snipers it could just add higher multipliers to different body parts.
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Post by UrbaneVirtuoso on Oct 24, 2013 13:51:32 GMT -5
Five point gamble? Eh, I can see way more use out of Danger Close and that Semtex grenade launcher, provided it has 6 or more shots to spare.
Seems remotely useful, actually.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2013 14:43:48 GMT -5
I'd say it's a little early to call how useful this perk is. Then again, considering that a company like IW would struggle balancing a mirror match-up it would be in their nature to grant a measily 4% chance of stopping power per point- AND it might deal 1.2x damage because **** everything. If it's possible to obtain more than a 50% chance of stopping power after obtaining <9 amount of points, AND the rate at which this chance builds per point scales linearly, a Specialist could slap it on the end of their streak so that when it kicks in it's in full throttle mode when ready. If this perk works exponentially it would probably do so at a rate of 0.85^n for the probably of NOT activating stopping power in every bullet. Anything higher than 0.85 and maybe the extremely rare 15 K/D player might find some use for it.
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markopolo
True Bro
Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
Posts: 5,567
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Post by markopolo on Oct 24, 2013 15:08:18 GMT -5
I think, in honesty, it will be used for the first week, then dropped.
The more I read about this, it reminds me of the deathstreak in MW3 (forgot the name) where it allows you to get extra damage for 1 revenge kill. Looked good in theory, but useless in game. This, at least to me, echos that... spending 5 out of 8/9/10/11 points for this? No thanks
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2013 16:55:37 GMT -5
Glorious sawtooth graphlines ahoy!
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Post by Wonder Showzen on Oct 26, 2013 15:48:27 GMT -5
With the ability to balance perks thru point cost, would it really be THAT bad if they just brought back Stopping Power?? I mean, if it's overused, just raise the cost to 6 or even 8 points. Why would that be game-breaking? How many of you would take a 6-7pt MW2-copy stopping power perk in this game, knowing how much you'd be giving up? Maybe on a couple classes, but I don't think it'd be too overused... If it was MW2 SP, it would be my very first Specialist unlock, to avoid the cost and then to get the full effect after two kills(one kill with Hardline). As is currently stands, I plan on testing Deadeye as my 2nd Specialist unlock, right after the expensive Wiretap. Since Deadeye ramps up it's power with each kill, waiting to use Deadeye until my fourth kill does not seem all that bad, and might very well be the sweet-spot that I would start to notice it having an effect.
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Post by xFEARtheSHIELDx on Oct 26, 2013 16:15:34 GMT -5
I'm thinking that the Deadeye effect wont start until you actually have it equipped, so I'm not sure that'll work.
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Post by Wonder Showzen on Oct 26, 2013 16:48:58 GMT -5
I'm thinking that the Deadeye effect wont start until you actually have it equipped, so I'm not sure that'll work. That would be interesting if it makes a difference based on the number of kills you actually get with Deadeye, versus picking up Deadeye via Specialist and having your earlier Specialist kills not play a role in the Deadeye damage. If it is the latter, I personally count Deadeye a useless Perk. Even if somehow Deadeye gave full MW2 SP after 4-5 kills, I would be hard-pressed to use it, if earlier Specialist kills did not count. It's just too expensive.
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Usagi
True Bro
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Post by Usagi on Oct 28, 2013 7:48:50 GMT -5
Driftor mention on the irc last night the possibility of shotguns calculating the game boost per pellet rather than per shot, which opens a door to much higher damage multipliers than I initially considered. That would be pretty neat but then every shotgun class would basically only have 3 points.
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Post by -3055- on Oct 28, 2013 7:57:50 GMT -5
Or 5. I never use equipment or secondaries.
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Post by -3055- on Oct 28, 2013 8:00:55 GMT -5
Driftor mention on the irc last night the possibility of shotguns calculating the game boost per pellet rather than per shot, which opens a door to much higher damage multipliers than I initially considered. omg my babies. Too bad this % completely screws over pumps, though. I don't see myself using this on pumps at all.
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Usagi
True Bro
Grin and Barrett
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Post by Usagi on Oct 28, 2013 8:04:23 GMT -5
I have a feeling that this might be an unintended thing like the ExMags bug in MW3.
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Post by -3055- on Oct 28, 2013 10:08:14 GMT -5
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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Post by corpsecreate on Oct 30, 2013 9:54:24 GMT -5
Tested today and:
0 kills -> ~12.5% chance per shot 1 kills -> ~16.67% chance per shot 2 kills -> ~33.33% chance per shot 3 kills -> ~40% chance per shot 4+ kills -> ~50% chance per shot
The numbers I actually got from testing were slightly different from these but I assume the developers chose mathematically 'nice' numbers so I'd say this is quite accurate. Interesting how it only takes 4 kills to get the maximum effect. I have yet to calculate the damage multiplier on Deadeye. Will do that tomorrow!
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