|
Post by netherwind on Nov 18, 2013 9:27:00 GMT -5
As a youtuber, his job is get the most views...
|
|
hyperion
True Bro
I put I.E.D's on the ceiling
Posts: 380
|
Post by hyperion on Nov 18, 2013 9:45:44 GMT -5
Seems like there's always a burst weapon people want to call op in every cod. Famas, G11, Type 95, Swat/M8 and now MSBS. Burst weapons do more damage but they also rely on people already having decent aim. You could call the type 95 op just as much as an mk14 with rapid fire but both were niche guns that not everyone was good at. I dont think the msbs is any different. Im more afraid of people with dual band lmgs than from an msbs. Being op in my book is a gun that ANYONE can be good with.
|
|
Usagi
True Bro
Grin and Barrett
Posts: 1,674
|
Post by Usagi on Nov 18, 2013 9:55:55 GMT -5
Seems like there's always a burst weapon people want to call op in every cod. Famas, G11, Type 95, Swat/M8 and now MSBS. Burst weapons do more damage but they also rely on people already having decent aim. You could call the type 95 op just as much as an mk14 with rapid fire but both were niche guns that not everyone was good at. I dont think the msbs is any different. Im more afraid of people with dual band lmgs than from an msbs. Being op in my book is a gun that ANYONE can be good with. People call burst guns OP because they feel like bullshit when you get one-bursted by them. Same reasoning for shotguns and railgunning, it's not actually OP, but it's frustrating and annoying to play against.
|
|
hyperion
True Bro
I put I.E.D's on the ceiling
Posts: 380
|
Post by hyperion on Nov 18, 2013 10:00:28 GMT -5
Seems like there's always a burst weapon people want to call op in every cod. Famas, G11, Type 95, Swat/M8 and now MSBS. Burst weapons do more damage but they also rely on people already having decent aim. You could call the type 95 op just as much as an mk14 with rapid fire but both were niche guns that not everyone was good at. I dont think the msbs is any different. Im more afraid of people with dual band lmgs than from an msbs. Being op in my book is a gun that ANYONE can be good with. People call burst guns OP because they feel like bullshit when you get one-bursted by them. Same reasoning for shotguns and railgunning, it's not actually OP, but it's frustrating and annoying to play against. If i die from a burst weapon im fine with that. At least the person took the time to aim and line up the shot (unless they hipfire me at cqc which does suck). I would be more irritated by someone spraying me down and dying from a random lucky shot. But thats just me.
|
|
Usagi
True Bro
Grin and Barrett
Posts: 1,674
|
Post by Usagi on Nov 18, 2013 10:04:03 GMT -5
People call burst guns OP because they feel like bullshit when you get one-bursted by them. Same reasoning for shotguns and railgunning, it's not actually OP, but it's frustrating and annoying to play against. If i die from a burst weapon im fine with that. At least the person took the time to aim and line up the shot (unless they hipfire me at cqc which does suck). I would be more irritated by someone spraying me down and dying from a random lucky shot. But thats just me. The average mong doesn't understand that. All they know is that they died instantly and (at least from their perspective) there was nothing they could have done to avoid it, and completely disregard that the gun that killed them takes a a bit more skill to use than other guns.
|
|
|
Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Nov 18, 2013 11:06:18 GMT -5
An AR that can kill in ~4 frames or under 75ms is pretty OP. The 2 shot range is longer than it should be and it's accurate enough to serious work at ranges too. In a game where latency is king, guns that can kill that fast might as well be giving you time travel powers. Snipers, shotguns, pistols, I get why those can kill fast. But this thing? I found it to just be easy mode. MLG banned it because otherwise every match was about 4 MSBS's vs. 4 other MSBS's. To be fair, it's not nearly as OP, accurate, or spammy as the old Type 95. It does have some accuracy issues at range but still is by no means hard to use. Maybe hipfire and ADS nerf would balance it? The Type 95 wasn't OP because of how good it was, it was because of how BAD the M16, the only other burst gun to compare it to, was. The problem with the MSBS is there's no other burst gun to compare it to, which inherently makes it "OP". If a burst gun can't kill in one burst it shouldn't exist because it artificially adds a .20 seconds to any TTK with each burst after the initial.
|
|
tooros
True Bro
Pony Stark
Posts: 1,306
|
Post by tooros on Nov 18, 2013 11:10:11 GMT -5
If i die from a burst weapon im fine with that. At least the person took the time to aim and line up the shot (unless they hipfire me at cqc which does suck). I would be more irritated by someone spraying me down and dying from a random lucky shot. But thats just me. The average mong doesn't understand that. All they know is that they died instantly and (at least from their perspective) there was nothing they could have done to avoid it, and completely disregard that the gun that killed them takes a a bit more skill to use than other guns. LOL @mong. I haven't heard that for years.
|
|
hyperion
True Bro
I put I.E.D's on the ceiling
Posts: 380
|
Post by hyperion on Nov 18, 2013 11:34:00 GMT -5
An AR that can kill in ~4 frames or under 75ms is pretty OP. The 2 shot range is longer than it should be and it's accurate enough to serious work at ranges too. In a game where latency is king, guns that can kill that fast might as well be giving you time travel powers. Snipers, shotguns, pistols, I get why those can kill fast. But this thing? I found it to just be easy mode. MLG banned it because otherwise every match was about 4 MSBS's vs. 4 other MSBS's. To be fair, it's not nearly as OP, accurate, or spammy as the old Type 95. It does have some accuracy issues at range but still is by no means hard to use. Maybe hipfire and ADS nerf would balance it? The Type 95 was OP because of how good it was, it was because of how BAD the M16, the only other burst gun to compare it to, was. The problem with the MSBS is there's no other burst gun to compare it to, which inherently makes it "OP". If a burst gun can't kill in one burst it shouldn't exist because it artificially adds a .20 seconds to any TTK with each burst after the initial. And lets not forget type 95 had rapid fire just for the extra insult to injury
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Nov 18, 2013 11:41:13 GMT -5
An AR that can kill in ~4 frames or under 75ms is pretty OP. The 2 shot range is longer than it should be and it's accurate enough to serious work at ranges too. In a game where latency is king, guns that can kill that fast might as well be giving you time travel powers. Snipers, shotguns, pistols, I get why those can kill fast. But this thing? I found it to just be easy mode. MLG banned it because otherwise every match was about 4 MSBS's vs. 4 other MSBS's. To be fair, it's not nearly as OP, accurate, or spammy as the old Type 95. It does have some accuracy issues at range but still is by no means hard to use. Maybe hipfire and ADS nerf would balance it? The MSBS is not OP.
|
|
Zero IX
True Bro
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
Posts: 1,655
|
Post by Zero IX on Nov 18, 2013 12:02:51 GMT -5
An AR that can kill in ~4 frames or under 75ms is pretty OP. The 2 shot range is longer than it should be and it's accurate enough to serious work at ranges too. In a game where latency is king, guns that can kill that fast might as well be giving you time travel powers. Snipers, shotguns, pistols, I get why those can kill fast. But this thing? I found it to just be easy mode. MLG banned it because otherwise every match was about 4 MSBS's vs. 4 other MSBS's. To be fair, it's not nearly as OP, accurate, or spammy as the old Type 95. It does have some accuracy issues at range but still is by no means hard to use. Maybe hipfire and ADS nerf would balance it? The MSBS is not OP. To quote an oldie but goodie, I think the video doesn't address Missed Shots, and it should: denkirson.proboards.com/post/28847/threadNo player is perfectly accurate and the MSBS does often require a second burst to finish the job—and that number only skyrockets at longer ranges. It is extremely potent and a top-tier gun for sure if you can keep your engagements in a favorable range... with maps this big and all the other good weapon configurations out there, again, I can't give the MSBS a grade better than Excellent, Top-Tier, Pretty Cool Guy, etc. It's definitely not overpowered i.e. gives one player an unfair advantage over another, and unlike the Type 95, it's not super-spammy.
|
|
|
Post by Aphoristic on Nov 18, 2013 12:14:52 GMT -5
An AR that can kill in ~4 frames or under 75ms is pretty OP. The 2 shot range is longer than it should be and it's accurate enough to serious work at ranges too. In a game where latency is king, guns that can kill that fast might as well be giving you time travel powers. Snipers, shotguns, pistols, I get why those can kill fast. But this thing? I found it to just be easy mode. MLG banned it because otherwise every match was about 4 MSBS's vs. 4 other MSBS's. To be fair, it's not nearly as OP, accurate, or spammy as the old Type 95. It does have some accuracy issues at range but still is by no means hard to use. Maybe hipfire and ADS nerf would balance it? It's not imbalanced as it is. The gun is competitive as it should be. It rewards good accuracy and punishes people when they can't get a 1 burst. If you miss that first burst, you lose in time to kill. At best, you can argue that at the highest levels of play it is imbalanced as the very best accuracy players could theoretically win against any opponent. For the general players you make videos for they aren't going to do magically better with this gun over any other. I want to add to this, that a lot of the problem is the perceived power the weapon has. This is the same thing Shotguns and Snipers have. The weapons seem like they are stronger than they are because they kill in one shot (or one burst). To the player dying, it seems like they just got cheated. They don't see the enemy player overcoming the difficulties of using the weapons (snipers being bad up close, shotguns being bad at a distance, burst guns not being able to fire a constant stream of bullets). It's a problem with perception that will never be fixed without removing it. At best it can be only minimized. Look at Evelynn in League of Legends. Originally she had stealth that made her invisible to anything without true sight for a long duration (10-50 seconds), and when she came out of that stealth she could stun an enemy for 1-2 seconds. To the community, it didn't matter that she was balanced statistically. She had the perceived bullshit power of appearing and killing you. This got to the point that Riot had decided to remake her completely to not have that power. Could Infinity Ward do something to fix the problem that all of these guns have with perceived power? No, not without drastically changing them.
|
|
Dumien
True Bro
Black Market Trader
No engrams. Only disappointment.
Posts: 3,292
|
Post by Dumien on Nov 18, 2013 12:39:28 GMT -5
The thing with the MSBS is it is the best shotgun (lots of non-shotguns are the best shotgun)... it trumps the Tac-12 in like every way except movement speed. Just use ye-olde CoD4 m16 trick. Burst fire but move your reticle/aim left->right or right->left in order to spread the three shots to maximize kill potential on a moving target at close/ midrange. I mean... the close range superiority of the gun is undeniable.
Where the gun faces trouble is mid/long. The recoil is not only difficult to manage, but 5/6 shots need to hit. I have a better chance with MTAR RF/silencerORgrip than I do with the MSBS. The MW2 Famas/T25 could all at least compete at those ranges.
I simply treat the MSBS as the high damage SMG with worse handling as a penalty.
|
|
hyperion
True Bro
I put I.E.D's on the ceiling
Posts: 380
|
Post by hyperion on Nov 18, 2013 13:14:57 GMT -5
Always take TTK with a grain of salt due to all shots NEED TO CONNECT
|
|
|
Post by Judge_St3vo on Nov 18, 2013 14:23:43 GMT -5
People get so offended during these discussions. Just because a gun is OP doesn't mean you can't abuse the hell outta it.
|
|
|
Post by -3055- on Nov 18, 2013 14:31:52 GMT -5
I thought every youtuber focused on click baiting and catering to the lowest common denominator? You don't start making youtube videos so you can change the entire fucking culture.
|
|
hyperion
True Bro
I put I.E.D's on the ceiling
Posts: 380
|
Post by hyperion on Nov 18, 2013 14:36:22 GMT -5
I thought every youtuber focused on click baiting and catering to the lowest common denominator? You don't start making youtube videos so you can change the entire Foxtroting culture. Unfortunately the culture is effected by youtube. By this video alone i bet the usage of the MSBS increases significantly. Which is why a lot of people watch these videos, simply to find out what is OP in the game and abuse it.
|
|
|
Post by Judge_St3vo on Nov 18, 2013 14:42:20 GMT -5
I thought every youtuber focused on click baiting and catering to the lowest common denominator? You don't start making youtube videos so you can change the entire Foxtroting culture. I think that's a pretty substantial over-generalization. I wouldn't lump Drift0r in with someone like tmartn.
|
|
|
Post by Judge_St3vo on Nov 18, 2013 14:48:10 GMT -5
I thought every youtuber focused on click baiting and catering to the lowest common denominator? You don't start making youtube videos so you can change the entire Foxtroting culture. I think that's a pretty substantial over-generalization. I wouldn't lump Drift0r in with someone like tmartn. I think the community learns to migrate to certain guns pretty quickly even without statistical evidence.
|
|
|
Post by Judge_St3vo on Nov 18, 2013 14:51:34 GMT -5
yeah we talked with him on the irc and he seemed pretty sincere about it...and is rethinking his stance on the subject. Hell. I feel bad that he agreed to subject himself to the flame-war on that reddit post.
|
|
|
Post by seanbateman on Nov 18, 2013 16:41:08 GMT -5
I definitely lost respect for Drift0r after this video. Best TTK doesn't automatically make a gun OP in a game where there are tons of factors. It's kind of amusing how he brings up latency in a video where he's trying to argue a burst gun is OP, when any veteran COD player would know if you're lagging you drop your burst and pick up an auto immediately. This has been true since COD 4.
|
|
|
Post by jaedrik on Nov 18, 2013 19:45:55 GMT -5
Something is nagging at me.
Isn't the MSBS recoil almost entirely vertical? Well then, it doesn't matter, because it's predictable. Just pull down.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2013 20:06:20 GMT -5
Hell. I feel bad that he agreed to subject himself to the flame-war on that reddit post. I feel bad for anyone who subjects themselves to the shithole that is the Cod Subreddits. Oh COME ON! That was ONE POST to the MW3 subreddit. About the campaign.
|
|
|
Post by noscreenname on Nov 18, 2013 21:18:56 GMT -5
Diftor is one of the best youtubes when not giving opinions and stuff. Fact.
|
|
Usagi
True Bro
Grin and Barrett
Posts: 1,674
|
Post by Usagi on Nov 18, 2013 21:32:00 GMT -5
On another note, his latest video has "also boobs" in the title.
|
|
|
Post by angrybeast96 on Nov 18, 2013 21:44:32 GMT -5
Diftor is one of the best youtubes when not giving opinions and stuff. Fact. Opinion*
|
|
|
Post by angrybeast96 on Nov 18, 2013 22:23:01 GMT -5
No, that's supposed to be plural. No, I was making a joke about you saying that it was a 'fact'. It is in fact, your opinion. Appears it wooshed, my bad.
|
|
hyperion
True Bro
I put I.E.D's on the ceiling
Posts: 380
|
Post by hyperion on Nov 19, 2013 11:14:47 GMT -5
not to play favorites but i like xboxahoy's reviews. They seem to be free of bias and just state the facts.
|
|
hyperion
True Bro
I put I.E.D's on the ceiling
Posts: 380
|
Post by hyperion on Nov 19, 2013 12:42:33 GMT -5
marvel may have mentioned ahoys info being wrong more than a few times... im sure there are hundreds of youtubers who have wrong info. Maybe its ahoys smooth british accent that wins me over.
|
|
tooros
True Bro
Pony Stark
Posts: 1,306
|
Post by tooros on Nov 19, 2013 12:48:54 GMT -5
You know it....
|
|
Spectre
True Bro
Guardian.
Posts: 89
|
Post by Spectre on Nov 19, 2013 13:28:44 GMT -5
I don't think we are in any position to judge and criticize so heavily him on his video. He gave us an opinion and he explained why he thinks the msbs is op and that should be it. Not picking on anyone here, but you shouldn't lose your respect towards someone just because he has a different opinion than you have. IMO there's a limit over which the lowest ttk possible in a game cannot go, otherwise it becomes simply frustrating. Type 95, cod4 m16 (to an extent), msbs are just too much. At least on PC, a gun like that would be ridiculously overused.
|
|