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Post by xswainx on Dec 10, 2013 15:49:59 GMT -5
For use with Xbox? Is there a big difference from a normal tv?
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Post by panicws on Dec 10, 2013 16:12:33 GMT -5
I cannot play on a TV set for some reason. I run Asus 24" Monitors at both of my gaming locations. I sit close, and have no problem playing for hours. Here is a similar model. goo.gl/dEdvUgNow for the best, that would be one of those fancy dancy IPS units or an old school sony flat HD CRT or something.
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Post by xswainx on Dec 10, 2013 16:38:47 GMT -5
Thanks! Do they help with any lag issues at all? I'm sure the picture on most all are very good quality.
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Pentaza
True Bro
Most kills, fewest deaths.
Posts: 304
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Post by Pentaza on Dec 10, 2013 16:51:51 GMT -5
If you're buying a monitor for gaming, you want one with a low response time and low input lag. IPS panels have better viewing angles, colour, etc. but they can suffer from slow response times. You get the fastest response times from TN panels, which go as low as 2ms. You probably want a response time of 5ms or better. That's the theory, anyway. Here's a favourable review of a recent gaming monitor... FWIW, I just use a TV that I've had for about 6 years.
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 10, 2013 17:10:33 GMT -5
(Off topic)
Is this the Swain of HSV1 clan? If yes, welcome to the board!
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Post by xswainx on Dec 10, 2013 17:34:44 GMT -5
Thanks Witty, yes it is that Swain. Glad to be here.
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 10, 2013 18:05:34 GMT -5
Thanks Witty, yes it is that Swain. Glad to be here. Swain: I assume that you already saw the public thread of HSV1. We also have a private thread going, in the form of "Messages". I just added you to that. To access, click "Messages" link on the left upper corner right below "Hey, A Message Board".
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Post by panicws on Dec 10, 2013 18:05:55 GMT -5
Thanks! Do they help with any lag issues at all? I'm sure the picture on most all are very good quality. I get lag, but I play on PC and Ghosts is garbage on PC. I used both monitors with my XB360 and had no trouble. I used an old Dell LCD Panel a while back that was not good. I could tell a difference straight away with the newer panels. I played Guild Wars 2 WvW competitively with no problem either. My units are LED boards with 2ms response. I dig em.
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Post by -3055- on Dec 10, 2013 20:41:16 GMT -5
My lite brites are LED boards too.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Dec 11, 2013 2:00:33 GMT -5
Make sure you stick with a 1080p monitor, so it doesn't have to do any scaling. Asus is generally pretty good, but that BenQ looks pretty sweet as well, just more expensive, and some of the features are PC specific (144hz?) that you won't get any benefit from with Xbox. Keep in mind that a PC monitor will either have crappy frustrating speakers, or no speakers at all, so have a plan in place for sound. And when you hook it up be sure to set your Xbox to full range (0-255) rather than limited (16-235) so your picture doesn't get washed out.
Also keep in mind that "response time" and "input lag" are two separate things. You want both to be low, but generally people only advertise the first, so be sure to google "input lag" + <monitor model> before pulling the trigger just to make sure something crazy isn't going on.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 11, 2013 5:14:21 GMT -5
I was giving my man cave a makeover this holidays. New furniture, tv, etc... so i was looking to swain.
My choice wasn't a monitor, so can't really add to that discussion. My choice was between a LED and Plasma, and everything i read and looked at the past month (reading everything on CNET religiously), I decided with to go plasma. I just couldn't find any compelling reason to go with LED, after reading about all the 60/120/240 Hhz endless debate stuff. Plasma just seemed better all around and felt that way, knowing plasma is on it's way out in '14/15. I feel i got a great black friday deal, i did a lot of price shopping. When searching, I also couldn't find any solid reason to stay the same size as before (45"). Why not go bigger? So I got a 60" TV. Going by the CNET guide, it had input lag of like 38ms or so. I was pretty happy with that, as it seems the bigger you go, the higher the input lag is generally (I don't think you can get ms input lag of under 10 on a regular tv) I have no clue what my old tv was, which was 45". That one was like six years old, so I'm guessing input lag in the 50+? 60's?
During my month long search, I found the TV people to be utterly clueless about TV's in general. I felt bad for them.
I don't know if if this TV is best for me in terms of gaming, in terms of the right size and all. It seems like all the 'pros' plays on monitors that are under 30". I suppose the reason they do is that size is better? Or is it because they can't afford big tv's? Who cares I guess. It's for me, not for them. After an adjustment period of a few days (it felt different), my CoD playing picked right back up where it was before. I'm not missing a beat and after playing on a big screen, I don't think i could go back. i'm just loving the new size, it's gloriously big.
A quick side story on the above. When hooking everything back up, I realized that my old TV was not 1080, it was 720. Yes, that old. (i think 2006? I spent thousands back then too). And I also had my xbox hooked up to it with component cables, not the hdmi cable. Kind of forgot that's how i had it the past few years. I had it like that for some reason, can't even remember why and i never messed around with what's going on back there to much. Anyways, i felt like i was getting a new gaming console system with this new tv. In regards to getting a better tv, bigger screen, and also hooking my 360 up with the hdmi cord. My CoD game looked noticeably better on the 360.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Dec 11, 2013 5:35:37 GMT -5
It seems like all the 'pros' plays on monitors that are under 30". I suppose the reason they do is that size is better? Or is it because they can't afford big tv's? It's because of lag. TVs have several times as much lag as monitors, and it absolutely matters (especially at LAN events). Size is a secondary issue, but in a tournament setting people are sitting pretty close to the screen. You're not going to be able to see everything sitting three feet from a 64" plasma screen.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 11, 2013 5:43:05 GMT -5
Well, yeah, definitely at LAN tourneys. When i made my comment though, I was referring to the pros when playing at home. All the youtube heroes and such. When you watch them on YouTube, their channels (at least the dozen or so I have seen) they all seem to play at home on monitors. Perhaps that's just a consistency thing? If you play monitors at tourneys, keep it consistent at home too? I suppose that makes sense.
I can't imagine imagine that a 10ms vs 30ms is that noticeable at home, is it?
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Dec 11, 2013 5:52:40 GMT -5
Perhaps that's just a consistency thing? If you play monitors at tourneys, keep it consistent at home too? I can't imagine imagine that a 10ms vs 30ms is that noticeable at home, is it? Exactly this. "Practice as you perform." Also a 20ms difference (10 vs 30) is roughly the difference between MtarX+Rapid Fire and MtarX without in terms of kill speed. I don't know about you, but I can definitely tell the difference.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 11, 2013 7:39:33 GMT -5
Tell a difference? Maybe in a perfect isolated testing lab, where all other conditions are held perfectly equal. Yeah, maybe.
But in terms of playing this game with all the lag spikes and other variables that go on, conditions that we mostly can't control (who has host, etc...), that 20ms becomes washed out imho. And I'm not playing in a testing lab. I'm playing at home. imho, it's not going to affect one's overall performance by a material or noticeable amount.
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Post by Aphoristic on Dec 11, 2013 7:45:54 GMT -5
This is flat out the best thing you could get assuming you don't have a G-Sync compatible graphics card and would like to wait for the G-Sync model next year. BenQ's monitors are so fully featured for gaming it's ridiculous. 2 HDMI ins for consoles, and tons and tons of settings. It's insane how many options there are, including a 1:1 mode for playing anything in native resolution without stretching.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Dec 12, 2013 0:53:25 GMT -5
Tell a difference? Maybe in a perfect isolated testing lab, where all other conditions are held perfectly equal. Yeah, maybe. But in terms of playing this game with all the lag spikes and other variables that go on, conditions that we mostly can't control (who has host, etc...), that 20ms becomes washed out imho. And I'm not playing in a testing lab. I'm playing at home. imho, it's not going to affect one's overall performance by a material or noticeable amount. Lag is absolutely a bigger factor, but it's still very noticeable if you pay attention. The time between when you see a guy and when he dies is the sum of a lot of little factors that add up. If you seriously can't tell the difference between a gun with rapid fire and a gun without rapid fire (playing the game, not in a "testing lab") we must be playing different games.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Dec 12, 2013 2:41:52 GMT -5
Input lag can be perceptibly worse than network lag as well, since it disconnects your commands from what happens on screen. Yeah play COD with 200ms network lag and you'll be frustrated by deaths that you can't do anything about, but do it with 200ms of input lag, you'll die all the same, and trying to look around becomes a disorienting chore as you notice your camera lagging.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 12, 2013 9:44:39 GMT -5
From my experiences, for every one incident of 200ms TV 'input lag' i've ever had, i've had 5,000 incidents of network lag. The monnitor/TV/LED/Plasma device tends to be a much more stable device than the network infrastructure, so i am not sure why they would be compared.
Regarding the above rapid fire comment. Aids, i think you missed my point (or i am not explaining it well). Of course I can tell the difference between a gun with rapid fire and without. Duh. My point is I don't think you can tell a difference in devices that have varying input lad measurements, while mixed with all the other things going on. If I go set up a Sony, Samsung, LG and Panasonic TVs with input lags varying between 20ms to 40ms, there won't be a person on here who can rank them from slowest to fastest. I would bet any amount of money on that.
I am also not doubting that 20ms can make a difference. 5ms can make a difference. Any ms can make a difference and is important IF a person is competiting in a LAN based CoD tournament where that is your profession. But there isn't a person on this message board who is doing that. And that being the case, once we have established that fact, that we are all recreational players, we are ALL faced with this. It's all about tradeoffs. A player who has a 2.0 KD, blah, blah, stat, blah, blah stats, has to ask himself:
Are you going to get a slight edge spending $350 for your Scuff controller? Are you going to get a perceptible advantage spending $100 on gaming glasses. Are you going to get results spending $600 on a gamer chair. Will your CoD perceptibly get better (with lag comp going on) bumping up your Verizon High Speed FIOS to the next $40 a month 'SuperFIOS' connection. Will your KD go up if you spend $10 on KontrolFreeks? Will your stats improve sitting the perfectly prescribed 64.291" from the viewing device. And of course, will you get better results, perceptible results, if you get rid of your 55" 40ms inputLag TV, and get a 23" smaller 20ms input monitor for your room.
My opinion? Most to all people won't get perceptible increases in performances. And if there is anything, it will be washed away by all the other factors (that increase performance) that easily overwhelm. Like simply checking corners and/or learning the maps better. I can, right now, give you seven people i know who did most of the above things last year in an effort to become a supposed CoD 'pro gamer' whatever player. Their KD/stats didn't improve hardly at all from what i saw, and here we are with Ghosts, and they are once again, waaaaaaaaaaay below me if going solely by stats. What good did those devices do, is what I ask. Now i am not knocking them, to each his or her own. It's all about tradeoffs and each person finding where there that tradeoff line is, between having fun/recreation and trying to do better.
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Post by bucket415 on Dec 12, 2013 12:06:41 GMT -5
I can't imagine imagine that a 10ms vs 30ms is that noticeable at home, is it? FearMojo says he can tell the difference / "notices the diff" between a 1ms monitor and a 2ms monitor.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 12, 2013 14:24:32 GMT -5
He can tell a difference between a 1ms lag input monitor, and a 2ms monitor?
Have I posted anything lately about how I am putting up 800 on my bench press? Maybe I should talk about that next.
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Post by bucket415 on Dec 12, 2013 16:12:30 GMT -5
He's a well known pro gamer. I'm not going to say its 100% true, but I am not going to 100% doubt it either. I bet Miguel Cabrera sees more going on with the baseball than the average player.
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Post by jaedrik on Dec 12, 2013 17:06:13 GMT -5
He's a well known pro gamer. I'm not going to say its 100% true, but I am not going to 100% doubt it either. I bet Miguel Cabrera sees more going on with the baseball than the average player. I'm going to go ahead and say that he's full of it. Being a pro doesn't mean you're super-human, disregarding Stan Lee's Superhumans :D I also like to distinguish between absolute certainty and practical certainty. Edit: Until he proves unequivocally that he can tell the difference between 1ms and 2ms by doing about 50 double-blind trials where there are two TVs with CoD on them, then I say he's full of it.
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Post by weaz12 on Dec 14, 2013 7:25:31 GMT -5
Apologies if this has already been listed, but here's a link to a site that ranks HDTV's (LCDs, LEDs, Plasmas) & monitors according to their display/input lag. www.displaylag.com/display-database/
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Dec 14, 2013 9:01:16 GMT -5
Yeah, "I can notice 1ms of lag" is total shit. 10ms would be pushing it. But just about any cod player would notice 100ms.
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