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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Jul 8, 2014 15:20:28 GMT -5
The question is which sales figures do you use? And which trends do you follow. The more I look at the overall unit sales the more it looks as if Ghosts is the oddball out. Which may in part be due to the new consoles, it's hard to really tell. And I can't find recent sales figures on Ghosts. www.statisticbrain.com/call-of-duty-franchise-game-sales-statistics/Judging from these numbers there is always a disparity between 3arc games and IW games. Yet each dev's next game outsells their previous. Add in a new dev in the mix and who knows what is going to happen in the future. I think it's hard to judge any kind of future trend. We'll have to see how Sledgehammer and 3arc do.
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Post by iw5000 on Jul 8, 2014 15:32:44 GMT -5
The question is which sales figures do you use? And which trends do you follow. The more I look at the overall unit sales the more it looks as if Ghosts is the oddball out. Which may in part be due to the new consoles, it's hard to really tell. And I can't find recent sales figures on Ghosts. www.statisticbrain.com/call-of-duty-franchise-game-sales-statistics/Judging from these numbers there is always a disparity between 3arc games and IW games. Yet each dev's next game outsells their previous. Add in a new dev in the mix and who knows what is going to happen in the future. I think it's hard to judge any kind of future trend. We'll have to see how Sledgehammer and 3arc do. I think VGChartz is a bit more accurate than your link. A couple of places to find other info. You have to piece it together, pull it from different sources, as IW/Activision simply stopped reporting all sales figures almost 24 hours after Ghosts came out. The game didn't do better, so they didn't want to report signs of weakness. But if you read between the lines, it's obvious. For example. One way of tracking things. Look at how many players are on your world leaderboards when you sort by the 'ALL' category. Back in June, CoD Ghosts showed around 8 million unique profiles on the leaderboards. BO2 currently has 15.7. That's a 49% drop in unique profiles. MW3 had 17.69 million profiles on the leaderboards. Again, do the math. 55% drop. And yes, split consoles account for some of that drop, but it can't account for all it. Some prior posts have talked about how Activision/developers are very smart people and know their stuff. Yes. But even smart people make mistakes. It goes without saying CoD Ghosts, for whatever reasons, lost many players. Both in sales of units, and also in losing players who stopped playing. This can no longer be denied. Last I have read, CoD Ghosts has sold around 20 to 21 million units.
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Post by iw5000 on Jul 8, 2014 15:45:20 GMT -5
copy
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jul 8, 2014 15:52:01 GMT -5
I inferred it from when you said "You play this game long enough, the core base, you can't help but get sucked into this never ending dog-chasing-tail root canal process of fussing over more and more trivial dumb things (KD, WL, SpM, #Nukes, etc..)". That's the only place in any of your posts in this thread that I could find an explanation for why, you believe, the community is so obsessed with K/D ratio. There's also no explanation for what makes you believe the developers do not realize this issue exists. There's no explanation of any potential solutions to the issue. So what's the cohesive thought? All I see is "people care too much about K/D", which is a point it seems like you spent an awful lot of words to make, particularly given the number of times you've made the point before. Tell me: What do you think is the solution to the issue of players caring too much about K/D? What makes you believe that the developers are in complete ignorance of what you perceive to be an extremely obvious issue? Hawk. You aren't getting my points. The thread was asking people what they felt the core issues were. I gave an answer. The thread was NOT asking for people to explain how to fix that issue. So I felt no need to go there. That wasn't the point of this thread. That's why I am a bit baffled by the anal retentive hassling you are doing. Saying my thoughts aren't "cohesive", because I didn't offer up solutions. Who cares? That's not the point of this thread. It wasn't asked. I also don't see the need to make people's eyes bleed any further rehashing solutions to the above 'issue', solutions I have listed on this board many many many times. This topic has been beaten to death. So all that said, does it really matter WHY people in CoD obsess over the KD ratio so hard? For this thread, no. It doesn't matter. My point is just that the developers have lost sight of this. They continue to add layer upon layers of bells & whistles onto the each new game, piling on new things to make the game more supposedly more fun, WHILE ignoring the fifty ton elephant in the room that all this new junk put into the game becomes mostly meaningless once the community gets it, as the game just quickly breaks down into a "WORK THE KD RATIO" game, regardless of what game mode you play. I don't think IW 'got it' this past time. If they were all knowing like you claim, they wouldn't have been so dumb to add in ridiculously stupid 'lean-kill' goals for the ghillie suit, which caused lobby upon lobby to be filled with idiots trying to snipe, making game play crawl to halt. Where's the developer brilliance there? Well? Even IW admitted they misread this, and Foxtroted it up. They retreated on it and drastically lowered the lean-kill requirements later on, after realizing their mistake. Companies make mistakes. Developers can be out of touch with the player base. I personally think (just my opinion here), is the above KD obsession has put ADDITIONAL stress and fatigue upon the player base, and has hastened the decline in this game. Player's skill level can top out in this game, and when you assign all your gaming self worth in this game to some silly stat, players get sucked into trying to maintain it. They don't maintain it (which is harder to do in this game, with weaker killstreaks), they get mad. They quit sooner. As I said before, it goes without saying that CoD is a mature game in it's life cycle, but even mature games shouldn't necessarily see a 35% drop in it's player base, with even a bigger drop (approaching 50%) in it's active nightly/weekly player count. The drop is real this go around. I've seen it happen. If the point of the thread was merely to discuss the issues with the series, there was no need for you to post at all, because every single one of us already knew your thoughts on what is wrong with the series. Yet you did post, and you included some thoughts that were not merely about the issues with the series, most notably when you said the developers are completely ignorant of what you feel is the issue with the series. Now, if the point of the thread was not to discuss what the developers know or do not know, why include that at all? If you do not want to clarify or discuss it any further, why include it at all? But you keep saying the developers are missing it, and I keep asking you to explain what makes you think that the developers are completely unaware of this, and you either refuse to or are incapable of doing so. I never made the claim that the developers are all knowing. The Ghillie suit never required lean kills. Gold camo for most weapons requires lean kills, which is what they reduced. So they introduced a new mechanic, introduced a new set of challenges involving the mechanic (as they always do), looked at the data and realized they had made the challenges prohibitively difficult, and corrected it. This is your evidence to support that they're out of touch with the player base and don't know what's going on? It shows the opposite.
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Post by iw5000 on Jul 8, 2014 16:00:51 GMT -5
The thread topic was,
"What are the core issues with the series". Not what are the Core Issues, and what we should do to fix them.
I listed what I thought the core issue was. If that's not good enough for you, you also feel the need to act like a douchebag and post the above stuff...I don't know what else to say. Especially seeing how you apparently know all my views anyways. Why are you even talking to me then, other than to be an asshole? As it is, I did discuss it further. Plenty further. Read above. Gets to this point you mentioned...
"and I keep asking you to explain what makes you think that the developers are completely unaware of this, and you either refuse to or are incapable of doing so."
Or...you are to dense and missed what I said. I already answered this. Early on. I would repeat it again, but don't feel like incurring your douchebaggish wrath of complaining about me repeating myself. One can't win with assholes like yourself. So maybe the problem is you at this point. I would suggest go find another thread as you are taking this one to personal. You have let what I wrote, get to you.
btw...you pretty much said they developers were all knowing. You said,
"These are smart people, trained in their craft, experienced at what they do, armed with plenty of data to inform their decisions. Rather than assuming that you have a better understanding of their product than they do, I recommend you start with the assumption that you don't and make a more concerted effort to understand why they make the decisions they do"
....that's sounds pretty clear to me that you feel I/we don't have any right to question their moves. They are 'smart people'. Obviously, you are wrong. See my example. And yes, it is only one example. How many do you need now? Two? Three? If I give you five, will you then act like a dickhead and ask for six? That's the route you are heading towards. Here's a suggestion. Own up to what you said. Even 'smart people' goof up and make huge mistakes. I don't think IW is going to claiming CoD Ghosts was a success.
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Post by iw5000 on Jul 8, 2014 16:15:08 GMT -5
b) Introduce one-time use "Burn Cards". These burn cards give player certain kind of boosts (e.g.: stronger version of weapons that takes 1 less bullet to kill) to have an advantage over other players, but it only lasts for one life. Cons of both a) and b): the "streak lovers" don't get the thrill of earning something that dominates the entire battlefield, so they feel that there are not enough incentives to play the game As a result: Titanfall is a great game that addressed many of the issues of CoD, but it did not have the same level of success as CoD. It is more like a "cult favorite" (meaning people who like it love the game more the more they play, while others quit before they in the early stage of learning curve before they can really get to the fun part) than blockbuster hits. Witty. You make good points but I think you are being a bit to harsh on TitanFall, in labeling it a cult favorite. That's a bit unfair. In many respects, it is MORE successful than CoD. Think on this. CoD Ghosts came out in Nov of 2014. About four plus months ahead of TitanFall. CoD Ghosts also came out on four platforms. PS4, PS3, 360 and X1. All told, it has sold 20 million in nine months. TitanFall has sold what? 2.5 million units? But it has only had five months, half the time. And it has only been primarily sold on the X1 originally. A better comparison would be to compare CoD Ghosts sales on the X1, versus TitanFall. Maybe you can research this, but I think TitanFall has outsold CoD Ghosts on this platform. With an apples to apples comparison, TitanFall is a straight up winner then, if this is the case. I don't think the situation is that CoD fans aren't liking TitanFall. I think the case is many CoD fans have yet to try it. You and I both know at least dozens of people in our clan who have talked about getting this game, but have yet to pull the trigger. How many have actually said they played it, and disliked it? I honestly can't think of a single person. Everyone who gives it an honest shot ends up enjoying it. It's fun. It feels like how CoD used to feel.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jul 8, 2014 17:37:01 GMT -5
"and I keep asking you to explain what makes you think that the developers are completely unaware of this, and you either refuse to or are incapable of doing so." Or...you are to dense and missed what I said. I already answered this. Early on. I would repeat it again, but don't feel like incurring your douchebaggish wrath of complaining about me repeating myself. One can't win with assholes like yourself. So maybe the problem is you at this point. I would suggest go find another thread as you are taking this one to personal. You have let what I wrote, get to you. No, I've read what you've said multiple times and at no point did I find any explanation of why you believe the developers are completely unaware of the problem. Are you inferring it from their inaction on solving the problem? btw...you pretty much said they developers were all knowing. You said, " These are smart people, trained in their craft, experienced at what they do, armed with plenty of data to inform their decisions. Rather than assuming that you have a better understanding of their product than they do, I recommend you start with the assumption that you don't and make a more concerted effort to understand why they make the decisions they do"....that's sounds pretty clear to me that you feel I/we don't have any right to question their moves. They are 'smart people'. Obviously, you are wrong. See my example. And yes, it is only one example. How many do you need now? Two? Three? If I give you five, will you then act like a dickhead and ask for six? That's the route you are heading towards. Here's a suggestion. Own up to what you said. Even 'smart people' goof up and make huge mistakes. I don't think IW is going to claiming CoD Ghosts was a success. I don't see anywhere in there where I say the developers are all knowing, nor did I say no one has any right to question their moves, nor did I intend to imply either of those. I also didn't say that CoD Ghosts was a success. I did say these are smart, well-trained people. They have access to tons of data which you do not. They have access to an enormous amount of feedback from users. This game is their livelihood. Yet for some reason, you keep stating that they are completely oblivious to this issue that is extremely obvious to you. Despite the fact that they have more information about the subject than you, despite the fact that it's pretty much what they've devoted their life to for the time being, you seem to think that you have this nugget of knowledge that these hundreds of people just can't seem to wrap their feeble minds around. Is it that you think that you're just that brilliant, or is it that you think they're just that stupid?
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jul 8, 2014 17:37:54 GMT -5
b) Introduce one-time use "Burn Cards". These burn cards give player certain kind of boosts (e.g.: stronger version of weapons that takes 1 less bullet to kill) to have an advantage over other players, but it only lasts for one life. Cons of both a) and b): the "streak lovers" don't get the thrill of earning something that dominates the entire battlefield, so they feel that there are not enough incentives to play the game As a result: Titanfall is a great game that addressed many of the issues of CoD, but it did not have the same level of success as CoD. It is more like a "cult favorite" (meaning people who like it love the game more the more they play, while others quit before they in the early stage of learning curve before they can really get to the fun part) than blockbuster hits. Witty. You make good points but I think you are being a bit to harsh on TitanFall, in labeling it a cult favorite. That's a bit unfair. In many respects, it is MORE successful than CoD. Think on this. CoD Ghosts came out in Nov of 2014. About four plus months ahead of TitanFall. CoD Ghosts also came out on four platforms. PS4, PS3, 360 and X1. All told, it has sold 20 million in nine months. TitanFall has sold what? 2.5 million units? But it has only had five months, half the time. And it has only been primarily sold on the X1 originally. A better comparison would be to compare CoD Ghosts sales on the X1, versus TitanFall. Maybe you can research this, but I think TitanFall has outsold CoD Ghosts on this platform. With an apples to apples comparison, TitanFall is a straight up winner then, if this is the case. I don't think the situation is that CoD fans aren't liking TitanFall. I think the case is many CoD fans have yet to try it. You and I both know at least dozens of people in our clan who have talked about getting this game, but have yet to pull the trigger. How many have actually said they played it, and disliked it? I honestly can't think of a single person. Everyone who gives it an honest shot ends up enjoying it. It's fun. It feels like how CoD used to feel. From Respawn's point of view as a start up studio with not many people: Titanfall is a huge success. It is on track (proably aleady did) for 3+ millions copies sold, and is the #1 sold game on XONE. Although I have no way to know for sure, I am pretty certain it is also the most popular game on XONE in terms of play time. From EA and Microsoft point of view however, it did not go as well as they hoped. EA made themselves a laughing matter by assuming that XONE is going to crash PS4 in the next gen console war and making this game XBL exclusive (had they not done this, the game could easily sell 2 - 4 million copies on PSN). MSFT was disappointed that this game did not turn out to be the console sales pusher they wanted it to be, despite the huge marketing investments as well as heavy discounts they throw onto the game. Despite the fact that Titanfall is technically a much more superior game than CoD Ghosts, there are far more people playing Ghosts than Titanfall (even as of today I think) on XBL alone. This is why I label it as a cult favorite instead of blockbuster hit. If you randomly choose 10 CoD players who also bought Titanfall, I bet more than 6 of them would say that Titanfall is just so so (or worse) and they prefer Ghosts instead. As I said in Titanfall related threads, only among players who played at least 1 - 2 full generations would give favorite reviews of this game, because of its steep learning curve requiring some serious upfront investment. Here is an article bashing at Titanfall (ironically from somebody who sank 100+ hours into the game, making you wonder why the hell somebody hated this game so much can be so determined in playing it ), which contains a pretty comprehensive list of reasons (most of which are BS in my opinion) of why people don't like this game: www.gamefront.com/titanfalls-unfinished-state-is-insulting-to-players/
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Post by iw5000 on Jul 8, 2014 19:37:25 GMT -5
Good points up there. Another example of a company, smart companies, not making the best decision. Hindsight is 20/20? They made some assumptions, and kind of blew it. I would have to think that the money they got for being exclusive, kind of, sort of, made up for the potential lost PS4 sales? I don't know what exclusive status pays? As it is, they have sold 2.5 million on XboxOne. So that's what, around 40 to 45% of XboxOne players bought it. If the same ratio happened on PS4, that would be around 3.5 million more units sold. That's around $200 million. I don't think Microsoft paid THAT much for exclusivity. Ouch.
With the CoD comparison. There are more CoD players, but that's only if you include Xbox 360. What are the XB1 Titanfall vs the XB1 CoD players on XBL? I'm going to guess TitanFall is pretty close to even, if not ahead. I suppose i could check this out tonight, pop both discs in.
The article is a bit harsh. I can't say i disagree with anything he said, but he's overplaying some of the unfinished features on TitanFall. You know? Like for example. He complains about lack of game modes. Really? He's really going to bitch about that? Technically he's correct. BUT...going back to my main point of this thread, CoD has 23 game modes and almost every single one of them plays exactly the same. 12 guys enter, and 12 guys play "WORK THE KD", regardless of what game mode they are in. That's all CoD is anymore. Work the KD KC. Work the KC Dom. Etc...Where's his complaint about CoD? Even the other complaints about stuff being unfinished....where's the shots at CoD Ghosts going to market without a Ground War game mode on the 360/PS3? Talking about fvcking over your clients.
TitanFall may have some unfinished parts like this guy brought up, he's technically correct. But most all of those things he brought up, aren't really that needed or important to one's enjoyment of the game. It's complaining for the sake of complaining. Like the lack of a campaign mode. For me, who cares. Campaign modes suck these days, i wouldn't have played it, so not having one meant absolutely nothing to me. I haven't played a CoD campaign in years.
.... i really don't think most CoD players would prefer CoD. I also don't honestly feel the learning curve is that much steeper, or steeper at all. It's just different. I think if you play CoD well, you can take over many of your skills to TitanFall and be competent fairly quickly. I'm only halfway into my 2G and i think i can already hold my own adequately. I'm definitely not bad. I am DEFINITELY farther along in this game at 'x' hours than i was at CoD years and years ago at the same play time. I was terrible at CoD. So i think most players like it more. But i have nothing to base that feeling on, just a hunch. It's so hard to judge. Are you comparing TitanFall now on the XB1, to what CoD players feel at this moment, now, in July of 2014? I think the numbers towards TitanFall might be higher than you think.
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wings
True Bro
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Post by wings on Jul 8, 2014 19:40:51 GMT -5
A good exmple of a great example of a good company making a bad decision was Atari ir was it Amiga? Either way, one of the two collapsed majorly. I can't remember what it eas over, too much vodka.
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Post by iw5000 on Jul 8, 2014 19:57:53 GMT -5
No, I've read what you've said multiple times and at no point did I find any explanation of why you believe the developers are completely unaware of the problem. Are you inferring it from their inaction on solving the problem? Well, then you need to brush up on your reading skills. I made this quite clear in one of my posts. I do not believe the people who made this game, are playing this game. At least enough on an ongoing basis to see what i am talking about. I'll get back to this after addressing your next point.... You don't think i realize this is their job? Come on. You are completely overplaying the "Livelihood' card. Many of the people who came into to work on CoD Ghosts, have not been around for the prior games. The IW of 2012/2013 (that made the Ghost's game released in Nov 2013), is not the exact same leadership and all the same workers from the mixed group from MW3, which was thrown together a bit. For many of them, this is their first go around working on the CoD projects. They aren't carrying forward the eight years of accumulated design on this game. And the fact that it is their job, is what i am basing my point on. THIS IS THEIR JOB. Do you work at your job during the day, and then go home and do your job for a hobby at night? Most likely not. Most people don't. This circles back to my comments earlier. I do not believe the people who made this game, are playing this game. They spent an inordinate amount of time doing tech work and testing on this game prior to Nov of 2013, and now.... they have moved on to new jobs, working on their next project. A number of higher-ups in companies (see Respawn's people) have commented on this in the past. And they may have access to tons of data that i don't have. They may use feedback info to adjust/balance guns and other gameplay, BUT that doesn't mean they understand or see what we the players are seeing on how this game is played. Sometimes the players can have unique vantage points. There are current examples out there that prove my point. BeachHead Studios, the makers of the current clan wars....were at least two months behind what was going on the clan wars, in failing to understand the current issues plaguing the CoD clan community. At the least the relevant, good clans who were competing, using their product (Clan Wars). They admitted to this. They made their game (Clan Wars) and completely whiffed for a month or two, ....on what their product was causing to happen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 20:36:52 GMT -5
My core issue with Call of Duty is that it charges $60 on PC and never marks down until 2 years have passed. Has anyone ever seen a recent Call of Duty title get marked down over 50% during a Steam Sale?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 0:06:12 GMT -5
Ghosts was 50% off this last Steam sale. However that's probably because they're trying to squeeze every bit of money they can get out of it before the player base dwindles below 1k players.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jul 9, 2014 0:21:00 GMT -5
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wittyscorpion
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All warfare is based on deception.
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jul 9, 2014 0:38:49 GMT -5
Titanfall isn't a steam game, witty. It's played through EA's client, origin, which afaik does not release player stats to the public. I would not be at all surprised if TF surpassed CoD's playerbase on PC. Oh, good to know. That makes sense since MSFT is providing dedicated servers for running the game.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Jul 9, 2014 8:03:33 GMT -5
No other videogame... not even my new favorite Titanfall... gets my adrenaline pumping like CoD. Twitch reflexes. A little bit of strategy. Some teamworks. Terrific. I love most of the maps with a few glaring exceptions. SnD is my favorite gamemode for any game ever. Get a little bored? Go play some zombies. I've played zombies for hours on end. I'm one of the minority who actually played one zombies game for over 12 hours straight. That is a game by itself proving CoD has fantastic time/cost value. I'm even fine with "more of the same." Just repackage it. Get me excited about it again. The next CoD I probably will be renting first simply because it didn't interest me AND I plan to dedicate some serious play-time to Destiny/Smash Bros (get hyped).
But. My biggest problem? The community. That is the biggest issue to me for the past 3 CoDs. Little kids with bad parents. Lots of counter-fun behavior (sitting in corners/following and shooting teammates). Lots of Ego. Don't get me wrong. I feed off of hatemail. The more hatemail you get the better a CoD player you are. For reference... I go play titanfall and at least once a week I get a FRIENDLY message from a teammate or enemy. WHAT? What is this madness named kindness? You can't ring my bell with your niceties and flattery! Get under my boot worm! I'm going to take your fancy lemons and flood your house with my lemonade gun! Oh wait. That's how people are supposed to act, Yeah? Yes.
You can't rightly fix community without implementing a clunky "nice"/"not nice" system like GTA Online. Better parenting would be nice too.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jul 9, 2014 9:38:42 GMT -5
No, I've read what you've said multiple times and at no point did I find any explanation of why you believe the developers are completely unaware of the problem. Are you inferring it from their inaction on solving the problem? Well, then you need to brush up on your reading skills. I made this quite clear in one of my posts. I do not believe the people who made this game, are playing this game. At least enough on an ongoing basis to see what i am talking about. I'll get back to this after addressing your next point.... You don't think i realize this is their job? Come on. You are completely overplaying the "Livelihood' card. Many of the people who came into to work on CoD Ghosts, have not been around for the prior games. The IW of 2012/2013 (that made the Ghost's game released in Nov 2013), is not the exact same leadership and all the same workers from the mixed group from MW3, which was thrown together a bit. For many of them, this is their first go around working on the CoD projects. They aren't carrying forward the eight years of accumulated design on this game. And the fact that it is their job, is what i am basing my point on. THIS IS THEIR JOB. Do you work at your job during the day, and then go home and do your job for a hobby at night? Most likely not. Most people don't. This circles back to my comments earlier. I do not believe the people who made this game, are playing this game. They spent an inordinate amount of time doing tech work and testing on this game prior to Nov of 2013, and now.... they have moved on to new jobs, working on their next project. A number of higher-ups in companies (see Respawn's people) have commented on this in the past. And they may have access to tons of data that i don't have. They may use feedback info to adjust/balance guns and other gameplay, BUT that doesn't mean they understand or see what we the players are seeing on how this game is played. Sometimes the players can have unique vantage points. There are current examples out there that prove my point. BeachHead Studios, the makers of the current clan wars....were at least two months behind what was going on the clan wars, in failing to understand the current issues plaguing the CoD clan community. At the least the relevant, good clans who were competing, using their product (Clan Wars). They admitted to this. They made their game (Clan Wars) and completely whiffed for a month or two, ....on what their product was causing to happen. He has 9 days played. Now, I'll quote you: Obviously, you are wrong. See my example.
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Post by iw5000 on Jul 9, 2014 10:15:39 GMT -5
IWIs a one person company?
No.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jul 9, 2014 10:36:46 GMT -5
I'll quote you again. Obviously, you are wrong. See my example. And yes, it is only one example. How many do you need now? Two? Three? If I give you five, will you then act like a dickhead and ask for six? That's the route you are heading towards. Here's a suggestion. Own up to what you said. Even 'smart people' goof up and make huge mistakes. But go ahead, let me know if you need more. I'll provide.
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wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
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Post by wings on Jul 9, 2014 12:12:20 GMT -5
No other videogame... not even my new favorite Titanfall... gets my adrenaline pumping like CoD. Twitch reflexes. A little bit of strategy. Some teamworks. Terrific. I love most of the maps with a few glaring exceptions. SnD is my favorite gamemode for any game ever. Get a little bored? Go play some zombies. I've played zombies for hours on end. I'm one of the minority who actually played one zombies game for over 12 hours straight. That is a game by itself proving CoD has fantastic time/cost value. I'm even fine with "more of the same." Just repackage it. Get me excited about it again. The next CoD I probably will be renting first simply because it didn't interest me AND I plan to dedicate some serious play-time to Destiny/Smash Bros (get hyped). But. My biggest problem? The community. That is the biggest issue to me for the past 3 CoDs. Little kids with bad parents. Lots of counter-fun behavior (sitting in corners/following and shooting teammates). Lots of Ego. Don't get me wrong. I feed off of hatemail. The more hatemail you get the better a CoD player you are. For reference... I go play titanfall and at least once a week I get a FRIENDLY message from a teammate or enemy. WHAT? What is this madness named kindness? You can't ring my bell with your niceties and flattery! Get under my boot worm! I'm going to take your fancy lemons and flood your house with my lemonade gun! Oh wait. That's how people are supposed to act, Yeah? Yes. You can't rightly fix community without implementing a clunky "nice"/"not nice" system like GTA Online. Better parenting would be nice too. Same as FIFA then. I saw my reputation plummet when I let my ex-housemate play on it. He's good at it so he came across a few sore losers.
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Post by iw5000 on Jul 9, 2014 12:55:08 GMT -5
I'll quote you again. Obviously, you are wrong. See my example. And yes, it is only one example. How many do you need now? Two? Three? If I give you five, will you then act like a dickhead and ask for six? That's the route you are heading towards. Here's a suggestion. Own up to what you said. Even 'smart people' goof up and make huge mistakes. But go ahead, let me know if you need more. I'll provide. Actually, don't bother asshole. I am at the hospital now waiting for my wife to get out of surgery. I pick up dealing with your douchebaggery and nonsense points later. To hard to follow on my phone and not in the mood to argue
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jul 9, 2014 13:05:27 GMT -5
I'll quote you again. But go ahead, let me know if you need more. I'll provide. Actually, don't bother asshole. I am at the hospital now waiting for my wife to get out of surgery. I pick up dealing with your douchebaggery and nonsense points later. To hard to follow on my phone and not in the mood to argue I'm sorry to hear that. Sincerely, I hope everything is ok.
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Post by bucket415 on Jul 9, 2014 13:05:54 GMT -5
You haven't made clear a cohesive thought, iw5000. You can totally end the conversation here. Your above statement sums up IW's entire posting career on this board (and probably life). I am thoroughly surprised anyone here takes the time to bother with his posts.
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wings
True Bro
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Post by wings on Jul 9, 2014 13:52:34 GMT -5
Huh? I thought Hawk and iw5k played together. If so, I wouldn't expect this. :/
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42
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Post by 42 on Jul 9, 2014 16:36:37 GMT -5
Huh? I thought Hawk and iw5k played together. If so, I wouldn't expect this. :/ I think they're on different platforms.
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wings
True Bro
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Post by wings on Jul 9, 2014 16:55:54 GMT -5
Huh? I thought Hawk and iw5k played together. If so, I wouldn't expect this. :/ I think they're on different platforms. Just checked our funky 'directory' and that appears to be the case but I swear they do that clan stuff together. Last huge spat I saw between two people on here, well I don't think I have seen either post on here since.
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Post by -3055- on Jul 9, 2014 16:57:38 GMT -5
Hawk is a dirty ps3 peasant and I'm not sure whether IW is 360/X1
But yeah, different families.
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Post by Aphoristic on Jul 9, 2014 17:46:44 GMT -5
Map design is indeed a huge issue when you try to make a map work for every game mode. Maps need to be specifically designed to work as an objective map or as a combat only map. This problem is not unique to CoD either. Battlefield 4 shows this off greatly, considering how the maps are made to have multiple types of combat in them (jets, boats, tanks, choppers, and infantry all at once.) Personally, the only way I can see this working is if they expand on the Black Ops idea of making maps shrink for certain modes. Taking it a step further, maps would be rearranged for different modes. They could end up being a variety of sizes. This is the only way to keep the large map pool that is expected (and required at this point) without spending even more time designing unique environments. Also the whole 3 lane map design is debatable. Some people really like it, and others hate it.
Having a massive number of game modes has always been one of the biggest strengths of the series.
The problem of loadouts is inherent to having the options. If there are a ton of choices, some optimal loadout always ends up being the best. Look at League of Legends for example. There is an optimal rune and mastery page for every champion. There is little variance, and only at the pro level do you see people with multiple setups for different matchups. Same concept with loadouts. You aren't ever going to run every combination. New players enjoy being able to pick whatever they want. Experienced players pick ones that they are comfortable with. High level players find the best ones and stick to them.
Killstreaks should be removed at this point. Replace them with something that functions the same as Titanfall. Match starts, you have a timer counting down. Get some kills, assists, and secure objectives and the timer goes down even faster. It finally hits 0 and you get your helicopter or whatever. Does this mean everyone can get an AC-130 or whatever? Yeah, but then you just need to also give everyone a dedicated weapon to destroy them. More counter play in ways that are fun and more meaningful than "just kill them before they get their streaks."
I've said it before, they need to fire whomever throws dirt on their final products.
More problems:
Holy shit stop literally trying to scam everyone. We don't need 80+ dollars of fucking microtrasactions on top of a 120 dollar fucking game. If this game were free to play, feel free to whore out the fucking micro dlc all you can. But guess what, it's fucking not. It is the most obvious cash grab that the series has ever tried. What's next, selling fucking better guns or something? The DLC maps are also a joke. All it accomplishes is splitting the playerbase into even smaller groups. You want to be uniting a game's community, not fragmenting it.
The lack of unity between competitive and casual. The goal here is to get more people interested in the competitive scene. Make watching high level games easy. Make it easy to know when esport events are going on. Make the rules between all the game modes the exact same. Bridge the gap. Competitive play needs to be emphasized as the standard mode. List it first in match making. Make it so only max ranks can join the queue. Have multiple queues for solo and groups. Put emphasis on wins over KD. Casual matches should have separate stat tracking that is intentionally less prominent on your profile. This is all to show that competitive is what actually matters.
The lack of replays in Ghosts was a massive mistake. The fact that the PC version is completely ignored is legitimately retarded. There is a playerbase that was massive years ago. There was no reason to throw them under the rug, and there is still no reason not to cater to them and bring the player base back. Not to do so would be idiotic. It's a potential market that is being ignored in favor of money whoring even harder with micro dlc for console peasants.
I would go on with things, but iw5k needs to be addressed for his absurdity.
1. The amount of new players who then look up things on youtube and come to some magical realization that the only thing that matters is KD is in reality next to zero. New players do not give a fuck. The majority of the playerbase does not even look up cod youtubers. Know why this is true? Compare sub numbers to sales. Not a single youtuber has half, hell probably even a quarter of what the sales are. New players generally do not know that scene exists. Not everyone even has a will to learn the game beyond the level that they start at. Plenty of people stay bottom tier players forever in any game.
2. Your comparisons are absurd. Is there a group that cares that much about KD? Sure. Do the majority of people care? No. It is absolutely a minority of people that give any fucks about KD. The vast majority of the audience does not and will never even look at their stats.
3. Are you stupid or did you just forget that this last release was during the new console transition. Numbers per platform are all screwed up. That is just how it is. People are still debating what console to get and are waiting on friends to also choose a console. Things should settle down once we stop having to support the last gen consoles. Ghosts has sold well considering it would be the first in the series to launch on so many different platforms with such a massively fractured playerbase.
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wings
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Post by wings on Jul 9, 2014 18:05:03 GMT -5
Unreal Tournament 3 has maps dedicated to a select number of game modes if not it was only available for that a single game mode. I like that idea personally.
I don't think making MLG rules as standard is a wise move. There is already animosity between regular players' and the pro scene. And the competitive stuff is flaunted all over the dashboard anyway. If people aren't tuning in it's because they are not interested in fake sports.
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42
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Post by 42 on Jul 9, 2014 18:21:19 GMT -5
Just checked our funky 'directory' and that appears to be the case but I swear they do that clan stuff together. Last huge spat I saw between two people on here, well I don't think I have seen either post on here since. IW5000 has been in plenty of "spats" before with a multitude of people. Hell, this isn't even the first time Hawk and him have had at it.
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