fpsdredd
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Post by fpsdredd on Sept 15, 2014 22:58:54 GMT -5
prone position firing had zero bullet spread at one point, just curious if anyone noticed how long it took them to fix it?
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Usagi
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Post by Usagi on Sept 16, 2014 11:04:08 GMT -5
prone position firing had zero bullet spread at one point, just curious if anyone noticed how long it took them to fix it? They fixed it? I cant feel any difference. LMGs have some ADS spread, maybe its that? None of the guns in MW3 have ADS spread besides shotguns.
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Usagi
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Post by Usagi on Sept 16, 2014 11:21:06 GMT -5
None of the guns in MW3 has ADS spread besides shotguns. Wrong. Look at the chart. My bad, this must be new stuff that Marv found later when he was updating all of the charts. When MW3 was the latest CoD I don't remember him mentioning that any of the guns had ADS spread. Why the fuck do LMGs have ADS spread? The horrible recoil wasn't bad enough?
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fpsdredd
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Post by fpsdredd on Sept 16, 2014 16:31:10 GMT -5
Np . Mw3 is unbalanced BS anyway.What game we're you playing?
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Sept 16, 2014 18:30:26 GMT -5
prone position firing had zero bullet spread at one point, just curious if anyone noticed how long it took them to fix it? Stance has not affected ADS spread since CoD1. (In fact, the mechanic died with that game, too, since the change from the id engine to IW's version removed that feature.) If you meant that recoil (ViewKick and GunKick) no longer changes with stance, then you've found a bug; that mechanic is intended and should still work. I just loaded the game up myself on PC and can get it to work by using the "Change Stance" key - though it is still broken by using the "Prone" and "Crouch" keys. Is there a way to assign stance-specific keys on any console? If you can and did, you might have replicated the bug I just described.
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fpsdredd
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Post by fpsdredd on Sept 17, 2014 9:34:59 GMT -5
prone position firing had zero bullet spread at one point, just curious if anyone noticed how long it took them to fix it? Stance has not affected ADS spread since CoD1. (In fact, the mechanic died with that game, too, since the change from the id engine to IW's version removed that feature.) If you meant that recoil (ViewKick and GunKick) no longer changes with stance, then you've found a bug; that mechanic is intended and should still work. I just loaded the game up myself on PC and can get it to work by using the "Change Stance" key - though it is still broken by using the "Prone" and "Crouch" keys. Is there a way to assign stance-specific keys on any console? If you can and did, you might have replicated the bug I just described. I am talking about the bullet spread ON the target. Shooting a wall and I walk up and examine the bullet spread.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Sept 17, 2014 12:37:51 GMT -5
I'll say it was unbalanced before the nerfs and buffs, but it balanced out near the end. MP7 and ACR were still god tier, but other guns can compete
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Sept 17, 2014 12:49:05 GMT -5
All games have useless guns, that doesn't mean it's unbalanced. And I rarely play with sound so all sound aspects are meaningless to me. Even before they buffed Sit Rep there were better perks IMO than Dead Silence
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Sept 17, 2014 13:01:56 GMT -5
Stance has not affected ADS spread since CoD1. (In fact, the mechanic died with that game, too, since the change from the id engine to IW's version removed that feature.) If you meant that recoil (ViewKick and GunKick) no longer changes with stance, then you've found a bug; that mechanic is intended and should still work. I just loaded the game up myself on PC and can get it to work by using the "Change Stance" key - though it is still broken by using the "Prone" and "Crouch" keys. Is there a way to assign stance-specific keys on any console? If you can and did, you might have replicated the bug I just described. I am talking about the bullet spread ON the target. Shooting a wall and I walk up and examine the bullet spread. Okay, I understand your terms now. (When I see/hear the word "spread" I think of the cone-of-fire that your bullet is randomly produced from with each shot.) When you say they "fixed" it, do you mean that there's no difference in spread between standing and prone positions for you? As I said, being more accurate (less recoil) when prone/crouched using an LMG or sniper is an intended feature, so if you managed to get rid of it somehow you found a bug. Do you have any idea how you managed to do this?
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Sept 17, 2014 13:02:11 GMT -5
USAS, KSG, SPAS, 1887
MP7, PP90M1, P90, UMP, possibly MP5
ACR, FAD, M16, MK14, M4, SCAR
Pretty much all LMGs post patch minus MG36 (infinite 3 HK ftw)
Seriously most guns were useful post patches.
And sound means nothing to me, if people can hear me coming then good, it lets me know where they're gonna be. Few people deviate from common set up spots. Maybe it ruined S&D but I've never cared for S&D
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fpsdredd
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Post by fpsdredd on Sept 17, 2014 13:40:22 GMT -5
They "fixed" the L86 by nerfing it. It was too strong while prone.
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Post by kylet357 on Sept 17, 2014 15:08:15 GMT -5
USAS, KSG, SPAS, 1887 MP7, PP90M1, P90, UMP, possibly MP5 ACR, FAD, M16, MK14, M4, SCAR Pretty much all LMGs post patch minus MG36 (infinite 3 HK ftw) Seriously most guns were useful post patches. And sound means nothing to me, if people can hear me coming then good, it lets me know where they're gonna be. Few people deviate from common set up spots. Maybe it ruined S&D but I've never cared for S&D Spas and the modell suck and all shotguns are inconsistent, the ump45 is worthless due to the slow TTK at all ranges, the MP5 is a worse MP7, the LMGs have a clear winner: the l86 and the gunkick was horrible. Also the machine pistols... 2 out of 4 were good. And beeing heard is a MAJOR disadvantage. SPAS-12 and Model were great when paired with Damage. I mean all of them are, but the Model 1887 had amazing range and x pellet to kill range. UMP-45 was my favourite of all the SMGs. Fairly easy to control recoil, the best three hit kill range, and the fastest reload. And TTK is practically irrelevant for most gunfights because it's completely random. All of the LMGs were good for different things. Nothing locked down close quarter areas like the M60, the L86 was a laser beam with Thermal Scope, and the MG36 didn't have much gunkick (at least when I used it). MK48 was pretty much a slow SMG (slap Steady Aim and Rapid Fire on, and you will have no need to aim). And really, the MP9 was the only good one. FMG-9 and the Skorpion sucked after they were nerfed (FMG-9 nerf and stupid Akimbo nerf). I did like the G18 because of the fast switch and reload.
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wings
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Post by wings on Sept 17, 2014 17:52:21 GMT -5
All games have useless guns, that doesn't mean it's unbalanced. And I rarely play with sound so all sound aspects are meaningless to me. Even before they buffed Sit Rep there were better perks IMO than Dead Silence Well Marksman was countered by Assassin, Steady Aim was meh and ugh...that left only Stalker. And if you used sniper rifles, perhaps a marksman rifle or an LMG then Stalker may not be as productive as if you were using the super skilled ARs. Yeah and if you sniped, you didn't have a goid tier 3 perk until Sit Rep got buffed, otherwise you were essentially playing with two perks.
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Usagi
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Post by Usagi on Sept 17, 2014 19:00:54 GMT -5
USAS, KSG, SPAS, 1887 MP7, PP90M1, P90, UMP, possibly MP5 ACR, FAD, M16, MK14, M4, SCAR Pretty much all LMGs post patch minus MG36 (infinite 3 HK ftw) Seriously most guns were useful post patches. And sound means nothing to me, if people can hear me coming then good, it lets me know where they're gonna be. Few people deviate from common set up spots. Maybe it ruined S&D but I've never cared for S&D KSG useful :u
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Sept 17, 2014 19:51:54 GMT -5
Alright on mobile so meh...
Mousey, I liked the MP5, even pre patch, still I can see your point.
Lordofnoobs, the shotguns needed damage, granted, but they were very consistent with it and USAS didn't need a OHK all the time, it had range and over 3x RoF of pump/lever action shotguns. All LMGs were useful, the main advantage of L86 was it was a laser beam with Thermal and faster reload, MK48 had a faster RoF and M60 was a beast with it's 2-3 HK.
Wings, disagree, marksman was countered by Assassin, sure, but it could still see through some surfaces and not everybody uses Assassin. Stalker is god tier IMO. Especially with LMGs, just ADS all day around corners. And steady aim was really useful on Shotguns.
Usagi, post patch KSG with damage was 3-4 HK with 9 pellets. That was one of the best pumps after the patches.
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wings
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Post by wings on Sept 17, 2014 23:44:15 GMT -5
To get the most out of Stalker you should probably be using ARs anyway, and I would rather COD make different movement speeds for small clip, drum and belt fed LMGs rather than use a perk to get round mobility too much but that will never happen. Marksman was never empirically discovered how useful it was on here, it was why I joined to start with. Steady Aim shouldn't exist because shotguns should work like they do with Steady Aim straight out of the box.
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wings
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Post by wings on Sept 18, 2014 3:58:28 GMT -5
Most of the complaints about Sit Rep come from Search players from my experience. I guess it could have been made unavailable to use in that game mode. I don't think balancing perks across different game modes always works.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Sept 18, 2014 9:39:43 GMT -5
Alright on mobile so meh... Mousey, I liked the MP5, even pre patch, still I can see your point. Lordofnoobs, the shotguns needed damage, granted, but they were very consistent with it and USAS didn't need a OHK all the time, it had range and over 3x RoF of pump/lever action shotguns. All LMGs were useful, the main advantage of L86 was it was a laser beam with Thermal and faster reload, MK48 had a faster RoF and M60 was a beast with it's 2-3 HK. Wings, disagree, marksman was countered by Assassin, sure, but it could still see through some surfaces and not everybody uses Assassin. Stalker is god tier IMO. Especially with LMGs, just ADS all day around corners. And steady aim was really useful on Shotguns. Usagi, post patch KSG with damage was 3-4 HK with 9 pellets. That was one of the best pumps after the patches. The l86 is only really usefull with thermal. The gunkick is just horrible. And that is kinda unbalanced. Gunkick was purely visual though, iirc. L86 was the best LMG for a blind eye class because of the reload. Also I thought the L86 had the best irons of the LMGs. Again this is about post patch LMGs, pre patch LMGs were garbage, but once they became 3HK their negatives were less important. But maybe I'm just weird because I like guns with recoil
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Sept 18, 2014 9:50:17 GMT -5
To get the most out of Stalker you should probably be using ARs anyway, and I would rather COD make different movement speeds for small clip, drum and belt fed LMGs rather than use a perk to get round mobility too much but that will never happen. Marksman was never empirically discovered how useful it was on here, it was why I joined to start with. Steady Aim shouldn't exist because shotguns should work like they do with Steady Aim straight out of the box. Again disagree, stalker was much better for LMGs who could spray and pray and could sacrifice accuracy for mobility. Marksman was still a wall hack, whether or not we know exactly what surfaces, it could still see through some. It was my go to perk in Dom. Underground by B Dom could see people's name on A Dom and pissed so many people off also was effective on people barely sticking out of cover Yeah, but it doesn't so it's good. Also SMGs benefited from it especially the fast firing guns.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Sept 18, 2014 9:51:11 GMT -5
Gunkick was not purely visual. Then I never under stood it properly then
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fpsdredd
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Post by fpsdredd on Sept 18, 2014 10:42:20 GMT -5
The l86 is only really usefull with thermal. The gunkick is just horrible. And that is kinda unbalanced. Gunkick was purely visual though, iirc. L86 was the best LMG for a blind eye class because of the reload. Also I thought the L86 had the best irons of the LMGs. Again this is about post patch LMGs, pre patch LMGs were garbage, but once they became 3HK their negatives were less important. But maybe I'm just weird because I like guns with recoil pecheneg (spelling?) was the best LMG for irons. the patch removed every thing else it had going for it and that is the only thing I could find that was strong(compared to the other LMGs).
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wings
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Post by wings on Sept 18, 2014 13:24:38 GMT -5
To get the most out of Stalker you should probably be using ARs anyway, and I would rather COD make different movement speeds for small clip, drum and belt fed LMGs rather than use a perk to get round mobility too much but that will never happen. Marksman was never empirically discovered how useful it was on here, it was why I joined to start with. Steady Aim shouldn't exist because shotguns should work like they do with Steady Aim straight out of the box. Again disagree, stalker was much better for LMGs who could spray and pray and could sacrifice accuracy for mobility. Marksman was still a wall hack, whether or not we know exactly what surfaces, it could still see through some. It was my go to perk in Dom. Underground by B Dom could see people's name on A Dom and pissed so many people off also was effective on people barely sticking out of cover Yeah, but it doesn't so it's good. Also SMGs benefited from it especially the fast firing guns. If players were not accurate enough with an LMG to warrant mobility on an LMG ahead of accuracy then I'm sure the ACR would be good enough for them. Found enough of them on the floor when I played. Whilst I do like more mobility on LMGs I was thinking of Overwatch roles that are typically suited for belt fed guns so you will be prone for a lot of the time. It was a handy technique I used when I used to play COD with friends as I'd often get a surprising amount of kills because people would rather face me head on than flank me for some reason (Mission being one map). Marksman may be better for Domination (barely played it in MW3) but it was pretty uninspiring in TDM and S&D from what I could tell. But I guess as traffic is higher concentrated over key known areas then people are going to select Marksman anyway. From the limited time I did use Marksman, the ACR and the MP7 did seem to benefit the most but my testing was hardly thorough so take that with a pinch of salt. Never tried Steady Aim on SMGs apart from testing the spread decrease but I've always pre-strafed whilst navigating maps to when other people would want Steady Aim to help them out but the faster rate of fire should be enough I would have thought.
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Post by kylet357 on Sept 18, 2014 15:30:04 GMT -5
Gunkick was not purely visual. Then I never under stood it properly then Viewkick moves your view (screen/where you are looking). Gunkick moves the sights relative to your screen (so it actually moves the sights left, right, up, down, etc. on the screen). If you want a good example of it, look at the L86 with rapid fire.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Sept 18, 2014 20:10:58 GMT -5
They "fixed" the L86 by nerfing it. It was too strong while prone. I can't accept that there was a stealth nerf to this weapon this long after the game's release date. For comparison: I'll make three comments regarding the video: 1. Excluding Rapid Fire, the first test is the worst-possible modifier set that affects accuracy on the L86 (no attachments/proficiencies), and the second is the best combination (Attachments with the Thermal sight and Grip). All other possible combinations give a level of accuracy between these two. 2. If the gun was stealth nerfed, can you actually accept that the L86 used to perform better accuracy-wise than what you see in the second test? 3. Don't forget that every optical attachment - not just the Thermal scope - confers an accuracy bonus to LMGs by removing their inherent 0.5 degree ADS spread (in the "cone-of-fire" sense of the word). If you were running RDS, Holo, etc. back in the MW3's heyday and compared your memories of how the gun performed then by firing it against a wall using ironsights, that might account for the discrepancy in accuracy you're percieving without the need to resort to a theory about a stealth nerf nearly three years after MW3's release date. Granted, I don't have code the throw in front of you that proves my point with certainty, but common sense and empirical evidence are working against your theory regardless.
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Post by jaedrik on Sept 19, 2014 8:46:09 GMT -5
Granted, I don't have code the throw in front of you that proves my point with certainty, but common sense and empirical evidence are working against your theory hypothesis regardless. Fixed. also first to like and comment get rekt lel
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fpsdredd
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Post by fpsdredd on Sept 19, 2014 9:26:49 GMT -5
They "fixed" the L86 by nerfing it. It was too strong while prone. I can't accept that there was a stealth nerf to this weapon this long after the game's release date. For comparison: I'll make three comments regarding the video: 1. Excluding Rapid Fire, the first test is the worst-possible modifier set that affects accuracy on the L86 (no attachments/proficiencies), and the second is the best combination (Attachments with the Thermal sight and Grip). All other possible combinations give a level of accuracy between these two. 2. If the gun was stealth nerfed, can you actually accept that the L86 used to perform better accuracy-wise than what you see in the second test? 3. Don't forget that every optical attachment - not just the Thermal scope - confers an accuracy bonus to LMGs by removing their inherent 0.5 degree ADS spread (in the "cone-of-fire" sense of the word). If you were running RDS, Holo, etc. back in the MW3's heyday and compared your memories of how the gun performed then by firing it against a wall using ironsights, that might account for the discrepancy in accuracy you're percieving without the need to resort to a theory about a stealth nerf nearly three years after MW3's release date. Granted, I don't have code the throw in front of you that proves my point with certainty, but common sense and empirical evidence are working against your theory regardless. console? PC? I can record a video tomorrow too showing ps3 that is NOT a laser beam
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fpsdredd
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Post by fpsdredd on Sept 19, 2014 9:39:53 GMT -5
"the second is the best combination (Attachments with the Thermal sight and Grip). All other possible combinations give a level of accuracy between these two."
thermal silencer gave laser beam in the past...perhaps post a video with that and show the results.while prone of course.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Sept 19, 2014 10:04:49 GMT -5
The 1887 was OP w/ RDS as recommended by CoD:Elite.
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fpsdredd
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Post by fpsdredd on Sept 19, 2014 11:59:19 GMT -5
I just tested again and the recoil is bad with thermal and silencer on PS3 while prone.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Sept 19, 2014 15:12:19 GMT -5
Granted, I don't have code the throw in front of you that proves my point with certainty, but common sense and empirical evidence are working against your theory hypothesis regardless. Fixed. also first to like and comment get rekt lel I forgot that these forums fora are an extension of my university classes, and that I should always use academically rigorous terms whenever posting here. Thank you for identifying and correcting my mistake. (Piss off, Jae! )
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