fpsdredd
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Post by fpsdredd on Jan 20, 2015 18:34:11 GMT -5
I have some guesses based on past experience but would like to see where you guys stand first. I'll post mine after.
What guns are getting buffed and how much you think?
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Will
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Post by Will on Jan 20, 2015 19:08:16 GMT -5
Hopefully they will do the following:
- Reduce short range of ASM1 (thus nerf the 3shotkill) - Increase the high damage of the MK14 (giving it a 2hit kill up close) - Increase the medium damage of the AMR9 (so it isn't 6 shot kill at kissing range) - Reduce muzzle flash of EPM3
With shotguns, they'll probably do something useless like increase the longrange of the S12
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Jan 20, 2015 19:11:52 GMT -5
In the Havoc trailer the Facehammer is being used so knowing how SH balanced MW3 shotguns around 50% extra pellets(via big ammo) and having DMG++Range we can assume they will be balancing shotguns around they're best variants. Here's my prediction on how shotguns will be buffed since we all know Glen and Condrey are 3arc fangoys. Edito: They'll prob just "buff" the 3rd unused number.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Jan 20, 2015 21:24:45 GMT -5
Shotguns min damage increased, maybe higher max damage range MK14 max damage range increased ~ 20%
All in all, nothing that will make more weapons competitive. Unless they nerf the ASM1, BAL, AK12, and HBRA3.
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Will
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Post by Will on Jan 20, 2015 23:50:20 GMT -5
I'd expect an ASM1 nerf. It is on par with the MP40 in terms of being the most overpowered weapon in a COD.
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Post by -3055- on Jan 20, 2015 23:52:29 GMT -5
Nerf shotguns.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Jan 21, 2015 0:05:13 GMT -5
I'd expect an ASM1 nerf. It is on par with the MP40 in terms of being the most overpowered weapon in a COD. Its weird. It definitely is OP. But a really quick glance at its stats doesn't yield anything too suspect. 3-5-6 is really odd. That drop from 3-5 without a 4 originally made me think it was gonna b shit.. However, the total lack of recoil, 45 rounds, and smg handling... more than make up for it. The AMR9 though. LMAO. 4-6-7? Seriously? Whoever balanced these guns really hated anything not fully automatic. Shitty bolt action, shitty semi autos, bad burst fire (unless you get the OP variants.. namely the Hole Puncher and Steel Bite)
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Will
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Post by Will on Jan 21, 2015 0:42:51 GMT -5
The 500 inch 3-shot-kill on the ASM1 is what's overpowered. All the SMGs have the same R1 range (as I call it on my spreadsheet), but all the others are 4-shot damage while the ASM1 is 3-shot. Combined with the largest magazine and the lowest recoil? wtfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
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Xeno
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Post by Xeno on Jan 21, 2015 2:12:31 GMT -5
Here's hoping that they make the Mk. 14 and the EPM3 not complete garbage this time.
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Post by thegentleman on Jan 21, 2015 5:42:52 GMT -5
Ideally, I'd like a decent solution to the MK14 and EPM3 to reward some kind of semi-auto play. In a game where people are literally able to jump 20 feet in the air at the drop of a hat, a 2-3 hit kill weapon wouldn't be unreasonable. Maybe the MK14 is a flat 3hk and the EPM3 has a 2-3range since you've gotta work for that two hit kill through recoil and muzzle flash. Again, FAL vs. SMR. Give people a preference.
The SN6 has to do something right, somewhere. It's touted as the "low recoil SMG," but really that distinction goes to the ASM-1. Speaking of that gun, I'd keep the 3hk range where it is but nerf the long range damage to a six hit kill. I like the fact that it jumps straight from 3 to 5. It's great at close range, so solidify its role there and nowhere else. Then again, it seems like nerfs are unlikely. The AMR9 will probably get touched in some way. If it comes out like some kind of bastard Chicom I'll be a happy dude.
ARX should get some kind of buff to put it at least within striking distance of its better variants.
If they do anything meaningful with the shotguns I'll be happy. I'd honestly just increase the medium damage range by maybe 40% or 50% and call it a day. Either that or implement the shot column tightening thing when ADS'd, which would reward accuracy with the Tac. I just want to be able to kill people with these things. They should not be getting wrecked by an ASM-1 in close quarters.
Lastly, the pistols need a shot in the arm. I don't know why people complained about the BO2 pistols. Considering that a secondary with an attachment is the same point value as an overkilled SMG, they should be good. Even the P226 in ghosts had a fairly generous 2hk and 3hk range, and people didn't bitch a storm up about that. I loved the Blops II handguns and would love for the Atlas or Grach to be comparable.
Also, maybe stun grenades that fucking do something.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Jan 21, 2015 12:01:41 GMT -5
I disagree with the ASM being OP. Most of the SMGs are bad up close and even worse at range. I'd say bring up the other SMGs to match the ASM. KF5 should definitely have a two hit kill zone, however small, if the ASM can use its entire magazine to three hit kill up to 500 inches. SN6 needs something since it's not bad per se, but there's no reason to use it. AMR needs a buff buffet.
Nerf shotguns.
Pistols need buffs. Best secondary right now is a Pro Pipe.
Stuns have the same problem as flashes in previous games: their area of effect is large, but they do virtually nothing at the edge of their range, leading to a false sense of security. I'd keep their maximum radius the same, but increase their effectiveness inside that radius. Same thing for EMPs. Hell, you could give EMPs no drop off and they'd still be shit.
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fpsdredd
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Post by fpsdredd on Jan 21, 2015 12:45:40 GMT -5
I see semi autos getting buffed. No 2 hit kill on the semis. They will get fast 3 hit kill at better ranges (not at all ranges - that's too strong). Expect recoil adjustments.
Lynx will get recoil reduction but very slightly. Two hit kill guns are very scary for them to change and they'll do so cautiously.
That burst fire SMG will see a slight buff. It won't be good for a long time until people explore it.
I have no comment on the other assault rifles - have not had a chance to use them yet.
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banana
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Post by banana on Jan 21, 2015 14:10:27 GMT -5
Before I read the rest of the thread, Condrey said no nerfs
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Jan 21, 2015 14:29:19 GMT -5
Before I read the rest of the thread, Condrey said no nerfs It's a lot easier to nerf 10 variants than it is to buff 100... Not saying you're wrong, I just think nerfs are almost always the answer.
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Spectre
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Post by Spectre on Jan 21, 2015 15:01:05 GMT -5
No offense to Condrey, but an arbitrary statement like that seems a bit bold
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Jan 21, 2015 16:00:45 GMT -5
Before I read the rest of the thread, Condrey said no nerfs It's a lot easier to nerf 10 variants than it is to buff 100... Not saying you're wrong, I just think nerfs are almost always the answer. It's also easier to just buff a handful of guns and call it a day.
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banana
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Post by banana on Jan 21, 2015 22:11:41 GMT -5
I want the shotguns to be viable and the snipers to get a .3 ads time (sadly it's highly unlikely)
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Jan 22, 2015 1:03:25 GMT -5
give MORS arm 1HK, give the Atlas scope choices, and increase its sway. They could have at least 5 viable snipers.. no excuse for this terrible interclass blance
type/movespeed/sway/ADS/damage/RPM/recoil 1: semi 80% high .50s, 1HK head, neck, chest, waist, arms, upper legs, no hipfire, 400RPM, barrett recoil 2: bolt 90% med .40s, 1HK head, neck, chest, waist, arms, 60RPM n/a 3. bolt 95% low .38s, 1HK head, neck, chest, waist, 50RPM, n/a 4. semi 90% med .38s, 1HK head, neck, chest, 400RPM moderate recoil 5. semi 90% low .35s, 1HK head, neck, 600RPM low recoil
probably not perfect balance, but my point is moreso how you could have 5 snipers with slightly different purposes.
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Will
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Post by Will on Jan 22, 2015 1:07:54 GMT -5
Varying movement speeds within a weapon class?
Nonono let's just give all the guns different "Mobility" values and laugh at the placebo as players talk about how they run faster with the AK-12!
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Jan 22, 2015 1:14:56 GMT -5
Varying movement speeds within a weapon class? Nonono let's just give all the guns different "Mobility" values and laugh at the placebo as players talk about how they run faster with the AK-12! They've done that before. MW3 Snipers had two movement speeds, plus that proficiency that altered player speed.
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Will
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Post by Will on Jan 22, 2015 1:17:19 GMT -5
Oh yeah. Well they should do that again, it was a cool kid idea.
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fpsdredd
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Post by fpsdredd on Jan 22, 2015 2:49:47 GMT -5
Varying movement speeds within a weapon class? Nonono let's just give all the guns different "Mobility" values and laugh at the placebo as players talk about how they run faster with the AK-12! They've done that before. MW3 Snipers had two movement speeds, plus that proficiency that altered player speed. Brings back memories of the absolutely over powered Dragunov from MW3 post patch. Aggressive routing combined with dropshots really made that gun amazing. SMG speed with semi auto sniper power.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Jan 22, 2015 9:57:45 GMT -5
give the Atlas scope choices Lack of scopes is probably due to the 20 mm's weapon 3D model.
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Post by beesting on Jan 22, 2015 13:59:04 GMT -5
What I would like to see is some sort of nerf for killstreaks when playing DOM, particularly Ground War DOM. Many times, the second half of the game is a Nuketown-type experience where just surviving and minimizing deaths is about all one could ask for.
I will take the bad game and stay in when my team is getting pounded, but going 0-10 or more in a minute or less without firing a shot or moving 30 feet makes me want to hide in a corner until the game is over...which I've done and the bombers STILL find me.
I usually run with the full complement of stealth perks, LP, CB, BE, HW, and that may help but not often when the game turns into the explosion-fest. I am sure it is fun for the guy who goes 54-7. He earned the skillstreaks, and I wouldn't want to take that away, but I'd like the game to still be playable to some extent.
Maybe limit the number of uses per game for individual or team or only once a minute. Another option could be to allow scorestreaks up to and including the system hack, and not making the higher streaks available. That would keep the match more skill-based and more 'mano a mano'. I don't have a great answer, just sharing my thoughts. Anyone else have an opinion?
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Jan 22, 2015 14:42:06 GMT -5
dp.
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Jan 22, 2015 14:44:04 GMT -5
They're probably gonna nerf the ASM1 back into oblivion because people are bi tches. The ASM1 should be the baseline that all other SMGs compare to. 500 units is really not that far in a COD game, folks. And after 500 units it's a 5HK. I could maybe understand dropping mag size from 45 to 30, but beyond that is silly. I can see the EPM3, MK14, SN6, MP11 and the shotguns get a buff. I really dont think they will buff the HBR, but everything can happen. And PLEASE PLEEEASE nerf the EM1 on PC. Its beyond stupid OP. Not gonna happen because the developers are competent enough to make an engine that doesn't bind fire rate to FPS. It currently fires every frame, the only thing they could do is change that to fire once every 2 frames, which would cut RoF in half (doubling TTK), making it complete garbage (which honestly I'd actually prefer at this point because the EM1 is godda mn annoying right now. No. The MORS is already fu cking annoying enough as it is. Also I'm gonna be pis sed if they nerf Elite variants before I unlock and get to try them. Still no MP11 Goliath or AK12 RIP.
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Will
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Post by Will on Jan 22, 2015 14:55:42 GMT -5
500 units is really not that far in a COD game, folks. Except this game should not be balanced around the core weapons only when we have the variant system. The ASM1 Magnitude with advanced rifling has 3-shot-kills to 718 inches. That's like 60 feet. With AW's movement system, and the way these maps are designed, how often are you engaged in firefights outside of 60 feet? SMGs should outperform the ARs at close range, no doubt. But the ASM1 wins in virtually every normal encounter. I would absolutely love to see the other SMGs get a buff, but the ASM1 is the best AR, SMG, LMG, and shotgun as it currently stands. That 3 shot kill to 60 feet is ridonkulous.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Jan 22, 2015 14:59:54 GMT -5
There's no reason the MORS should be annoying while the Atlas, the clearly superior sniper rifle, wouldn't be. Clearly you have major bias associated with this subject.
The ASM1 has super clean irons and firing animations, so even while it's weak at a range, the lack of recoil makes it very usable.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Jan 22, 2015 15:12:08 GMT -5
Anyone else have an opinion [on weak killstreaks]? I am also of the opinion that killstreaks should be weaker, but the community generally prefers stronger streaks. See the outrage over the weaker streaks in Ghosts versus Black Ops 2 (although Ghosts' streaks were still not particularly weak overall). I will say that Flak Jacket should offer superior resistance to streaks: a bombing run should be unable to kill an FJ user. Just delete the post. You can do that. [The EM1] currently fires every frame, the only thing they could do is change that to fire once every 2 frames, which would cut RoF in half (doubling TTK), making it complete garbage (which honestly I'd actually prefer at this point because the EM1 is godda mn annoying right now. I proposed a fix for this. Give the EM1 an 1800 RPM. This works at both 60 and 90 FPS. And then double its damage (something like 13-12-11; this is slightly more than double to account for the lower fire rate). Problem fixed. Oh, and I guess center speed would have to be lowered to account for the lower fire rate, too. Otherwise, your laser would be a laser.
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Post by beesting on Jan 22, 2015 16:05:54 GMT -5
Anyone else have an opinion [on weak killstreaks]? I am also of the opinion that killstreaks should be weaker, but the community generally prefers stronger streaks. See the outrage over the weaker streaks in Ghosts versus Black Ops 2 (although Ghosts' streaks were still not particularly weak overall). I will say that Flak Jacket should offer superior resistance to streaks: a bombing run should be unable to kill an FJ user. FJ does help in some cases. My issue is more with the number of high level killstreaks that are constantly in operation and often concurrently, more than the strength of each individual killstreak.
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