wings
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Post by wings on Oct 13, 2015 10:41:57 GMT -5
"With the deployment of Update 2.0.1, we will wholesale remove the Shot Package perk from all Shotguns. Any shotgun with Shot Package (depending on the exact weapon) will now have Close and/or Personal, Crowd Control, or Knee Pads. This change has not negatively impacted our PVE playtests."
Errr so long as non-Guardian enemies in PvE have an AoE attack and Lightswitch (or powerful melee without Lightswitch), then Shot Package may get a PvE nerf regardless. It just matters less there.
Also, has anyone tried the SUROS DIS-47 scout rifle in PvP? I can hammer the trigger stupidly fast with it so I'm wondering if it's a hidden gem. I haven't tried in PvP because I wanted to get my New Monarchy Hunter cloak bounty done, which I have.
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tooros
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Post by tooros on Oct 13, 2015 11:02:10 GMT -5
"With the deployment of Update 2.0.1, we will wholesale remove the Shot Package perk from all Shotguns. Any shotgun with Shot Package (depending on the exact weapon) will now have Close and/or Personal, Crowd Control, or Knee Pads. This change has not negatively impacted our PVE playtests." Errr so long as non-Guardian enemies in PvE have an AoE attack and Lightswitch (or powerful melee without Lightswitch), then Shot Package may get a PvE nerf regardless. It just matters less there. Also, has anyone tried the SUROS DIS-47 scout rifle in PvP? I can hammer the trigger stupidly fast with it so I'm wondering if it's a hidden gem. I haven't tried in PvP because I wanted to get my New Monarchy Hunter cloak bounty done, which I have. I have the NL shadow 701x with the same ROF. I'm not much of a cricible player (at all) but I can do reasonably well with it at times. It doesn't come close to the pulse rifles though (for me.) I switched over halfway through a few games from it to the Suros PDX-45 and it felt so much easier. As I said - I'm pretty rubbish but it wasn't in the same league for me.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 14, 2015 3:20:58 GMT -5
SUROS DIS 47 is a great weapon, especially if you can get one with full auto. It has way better stats than the NL shadow. Look up MTASH on youtube, he has one with stability rolls and full auto. He uses it all the time in PvP
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Oct 14, 2015 8:36:43 GMT -5
^^^ Yup. I'm not sure full auto is even that necessary. Just get a high stability laser and go to town.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 14, 2015 11:10:57 GMT -5
Full auto is best on high RoF ScoutRs, but nonetheless is a great convenience perk and more importantly, somewhat effective counter to lag.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Oct 14, 2015 12:53:26 GMT -5
True, true. I'm used to using the CoD semi-autos which have a much higher fire rate than any scout rifle in Destiny, so it's not a big deal one way or another for me. Plus the odds of rolling full auto are pretty small (1/15 on the Suros models, haven't looked on others). My point was that I wouldn't pass up an otherwise great roll just because full auto was missing.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 14, 2015 14:27:45 GMT -5
Recently I had good success wrecking people with Hawkmoon. Once you get to know its range, it's hard to beat.
Things should get even better with the new Shotty nerf (haven't played yet so just hypothesizing).
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 14, 2015 17:27:19 GMT -5
Over in the Reddit-ville players are complaining about the prevalence of Sunbreakers and Stormcallers in IB. Looks like the new meta is not the weapons, but the supers, and more importantly, how to chain them up or stop them on the tracks.
In comparison: Y1 multi-kill supers now look much more reasonable. The Golden Gun only has 3 shots, and Bladedancer needs to get close and personal. No longer the case in Y2: where Sunbreaker can spam triggers to get as many kills as possible while recovering health, while Stormcaller can teleport while killing without much risk. They are Gunslinger and Bladedancer on steroids.
As it stands: Y2 = the fight between Hammer and Storm, with Gunslinger as kinda counter to both (similar to Fist of Havoc countering Bladedance in Y1).
If you want some gun fights, maybe the Inferno variants are not so bad after all...
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wings
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Post by wings on Oct 15, 2015 7:41:06 GMT -5
My SUROS DIS-47 has Fitted Stock, Rodeo and Lightweight/Hand-laid Stock for its perk rolls.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 15, 2015 12:34:49 GMT -5
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 15, 2015 12:39:39 GMT -5
To be fair, shot package was about consistency. So doing a 1v1 comparison is not really checking whether is became more or less consistent. Checking 10 shots on extreme ranges would be a better check. That said, it probably doesn't have THAT much effect.
(shows everybody and their mothers was talking ass back in the day of HoW, stating how important shot package is on a shotgun...)
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 16, 2015 12:38:40 GMT -5
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 16, 2015 13:03:20 GMT -5
Knowledge is Power, literally. With this info, I am ready to become an expert on weapon evaluation One major ingredient that I am still missing: an in-depth look (preferrbly backed by numbers) of how various perks affect different weapon types. Anybody has a great source for that info? EDIT: Google search yielded the following posts that may be useful in this regard: *Note that Planet Destiny is less trustworthy in general, sometimes make claims that are false. However, they do tend to have an easier-to-grasp presentation for "casual" scrub; Bros: if you know any gems that are not covered, please let me know.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 19, 2015 14:35:24 GMT -5
This is hilarious: Kidding aside, Stormcallers have their moments as well, like this one (normally I am not a big fan of recording my own game play unless it has blooper value, but when the Iron Lord is saying that he can't believe what he is seeing, I am obliged): xboxclips.com/WittyScorpion72/1930273a-e7d9-4f4c-9212-c70bb8d45e0d
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 20, 2015 4:16:51 GMT -5
I think storm callers are just as or even more OP, they just have more counters in theory, but these counters rarely happen in practice. They are even easier to use compared to sunbreakers though... As for the weapons, the Zarinaea-D is my new favorite auto. I have several auto rifles with a better stability, range and magazine size, but this still feels more controllable for some reason. It looks and feels like an MW3 scar, and while I didn't really like that gun in that game compared to others, getting that COD feel in destiny is too good to pass up for me atm. You should really really try it, even if the perks look mediocre once you get once. (mine does have counterbalance, so that might have to do something with the recoil only going up, I don't know. But as far as I know it is not THE best stability perk around). I have saved a clip on my PS and will try to upload it. It is nothing special, but is shows how easy this weapon can be controlled. P.s. Has anybody found a new list with all the perks and statistics? Would be very interested but couldn't really find a thorough list. p.s.s. Does this work? you can see the weapon for yourselves (it does have 40 rounds instead of 30 though!) www.bungie.net/en/Legend/Gear/2/4611686018433551747/2305843009216677423 p.s.s.s. After some googling it seems the counterbalance perk puts all recoil in the vertical plane. So that is probably more why I love the gun than the gun itself. That said, the gun itself also feels very good, including the sound it makes. I don't know what it is, but it just feel right. (for all the g36 strait up recoil lovers in here) p.s.s.s.s. This is the best list of perks I could find. It is not complete (counterbalance doesn't state that it only goes up for example), and it is old, but it is still better than nothing. Please let me know if anybody finds a better/newer version! www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/37h1rn/weapon_upgrades_perks_and_modifications/P.s.s.s.s.s. yeah.... some more info on some special weapon mods www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/3hargo/commonly_misunderstood_weapon_perksstatsother/
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 20, 2015 4:57:09 GMT -5
Yes, counter balance is the king of stability perks, they are great on AutoR, probably even greater on PulseR.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Oct 20, 2015 5:42:54 GMT -5
Yes, counter balance is the king of stability perks, they are great on AutoR, probably even greater on PulseR. Correct. Counter balance is almost a necessity on several of the Y2 pulses due to their tendency for recoil up and to the left (mostly to the left). The two Hakke pulses (Lyudmila and Herja-D) are terrible without it, IMO. Nirwen's Mercy is the first one I've come across that doesn't need it to remain extremely accurate.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 20, 2015 10:17:46 GMT -5
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 22, 2015 11:31:39 GMT -5
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 22, 2015 13:14:03 GMT -5
Shadestep is a really strong option. But not OP imho. Maybe as an ability of itself, but that combined with the smoke and enhanced radar is actually all you get.
The super stinks in PvP, as do the grenades. The other perks are also quite mediocre. The class would be better if you could take shade step and enhanced tracker together without using your exotic.
I for one, think gunslinger is still the better PvP class.
I am going to try that up there for sure though, but I think it is not going to be easy to master!
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Oct 22, 2015 13:48:50 GMT -5
Eh...I don't see Shadestep, even with cancelling, being any more OP than Blink, which I don't think is OP. Plus, as qupie alluded to, Gunslinger and Bladedancer have better all-around perksets for PvP. Gunslinger might actually be the best Hunter class now. An INT/DIS build with Young Ahamkara's Spine for double tripmines is a force to be reckoned with and, speaking from experience, unbelievably frustrating to play against. Lane control for days, plus a lot of people are running more recovery and lower armor since recovery got buffed, meaning more tripmines result in kills instead of enemies tanking through them. Also, Golden Gun is either the best or 2nd best super right now, and I think it'll be #1 if/when they make it able to 1-shot a Hammerbro like it should be able to. qupie -- Nice tip I saw on reddit today for the crappy Nightstalker grenades: Throw a smoke bomb first immediately followed by a vortex grenade. The smoke slows enemies down enough that they can't escape the grenade before they burn to death! Works best with Envenomed and Lockdown perks active, and Voidwall should work ok too if you'd rather you those instead of Vortex.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 22, 2015 18:02:51 GMT -5
To be clear, I am talking about Shadestep as an OP option for movement, not saying Nightstalker is OP.
IMHO, it is definitely as strong as Blink to avoid getting shot, with added benefit that gives you better control. That coupled with the ability to cancel and immediately get into next one, is making it the strongest movement that almost impossible to counter.
I ran into a skilled Shadestep+shotty players last week and he is basically untouchable: shadestep almost nonstop without cooldown, and my bullets simply can't register. He on the other hand, will surely kill me with at most 2 shotty shots if not 1.
What saved it from becoming the new Blink is the OPness of Hammer and Storm when compared with Shadow Shot. Otherwise the entire lobby will be full of Shadesteppers just like the prevalence of Blinkers a few months ago.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 23, 2015 4:54:21 GMT -5
I think double shadestep is not even a good move 90% of the time. You only can do two in sequence, so using them both in such a short time will most of the time be counterproductive. As far as I can tell.
There actually is a cooldown witty, I think about as long as blink.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Oct 23, 2015 9:31:17 GMT -5
First, there's a cooldown after two shadesteps as qupie mentioned, which is pretty much the same thing you get with blink. Second, you can be killed in the middle of the shadestep animation. There are no invincibility frames like there are with blink. Those two facts prevent it from being OP in my eyes. That being said, it's still really really good (just like blink), so use/abuse it as much as possible.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 23, 2015 12:44:05 GMT -5
Soliciting advice on "Imprecation" challenge, the last road block to look-good-on-paper-but-actually-not-impressive exotic "The First Curse". (Tried briefly last night and went nowhere. It could become "The Fear's Embrace" in PvP for me so I'd better get tips before wasting time). The challenge: make 7 precision kills with weapon "Imprecation" in 1 Crucible game. The instrument: Imprecation, a "Timur's Lash" archetype HC (RoF=15, Impact=94) with a mag size 6 and no perks (actually it has 1 perk, "Triple Tap", but that is completely useless in PvP); Damage profile: 1) My empirical experience shows that the weapon requires 3 crit hits to kill, that's before I had a chance to look up @extooper's spreadsheet. 2) exxtrooper's spreadsheet shows Timur's Lash has the following damage number: crit = 95, body = 64. So 2 body shots + 1 crit should do it (64 x 2 + 95 > 200). TTK = 1.00; 3) If the enemy is slightly injured, then 2 crits should do it (95 x 2 = 190), TTK = 0.50. My experience last night: Pretty much anybody can easily destroy me head-to-head (other than 1 guy who is also using this weapon, which I won almost all of the gunfights against , I bowed to the guy for giving me the confidence that I am not the worst of using this weapon). The ask:
1) What game mode is the best for this challenge? 2) What subclass and loadout to use? 3) What map(s) can offer the best chance for success?For 1): I am thinking Skrimish, and Inferno variants where "kill buttons" (aka Super and Heavy) are absent, and I can sneak on people (radar-less = good for me because I am very bad at using the radar). For 2): I tried Nightstalker with 2 stink bombs gauntlet + Shadestep + high Int/Str, and did not go very far. Seems to me that the road to success might be to always shadow a teammates (who can hit shots but not great at finish ) and try to steal kills...
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Oct 23, 2015 13:27:35 GMT -5
I haven't really messed around with it much yet, but I'm thinking that teamshotting (positive version of kill stealing) is a great plan. I also think Nightstalker is probably the best way to go. Smoke 'nades mean opponents can't dodge as well so it should theoretically be easier to hit headshots. Maybe smoke+grenade at the same time, then try to get a headshot once they've burned down a little? Also, if you can tether an enemy instead of killing them outright with Shadowshot, I'd guess 2 headshots would kill. That'd make life a little easier. Personally I don't think skirmish or inferno is a great idea -- I'd head to mayhem rumble/clash or control instead. In mayhem you'll obviously have plenty of chances to tether and smoke bomb opponents, and in control you can ignore objectives and try to get the drop on enemies who are otherwise occupied with capping zones.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 23, 2015 13:32:04 GMT -5
I haven't really messed around with it much yet, but I'm thinking that teamshotting (positive version of kill stealing) is a great plan. I also think Nightstalker is probably the best way to go. Smoke 'nades mean opponents can't dodge as well so it should theoretically be easier to hit headshots. Maybe smoke+grenade at the same time, then try to get a headshot once they've burned down a little? Also, if you can tether an enemy instead of killing them outright with Shadowshot, I'd guess 2 headshots would kill. That'd make life a little easier. Personally I don't think skirmish or inferno is a great idea -- I'd head to mayhem rumble/clash or control instead. In mayhem you'll obviously have plenty of chances to tether and smoke bomb opponents, and in control you can ignore objectives and try to get the drop on enemies who are otherwise occupied with capping zones.
On subclass: 1) same line of thinking on using Nightstalker. It seems to have the best abilities that "assist" killing. 2) Titan can use Defender w/Weapon of Light; 3) Warlock can use Sunsinger for scorch + back paddle crit kill. Equip Radiant Skin to become damage resistant during Radiance.
On game mode: I thought about Mayhem but did not try it in fear of game over too fast before I can get 7 kills. But I forgot I can also get all the help I need from abilities: tether & stink bomb, as well as the games have similar length as any other game modes. So now that sounds much more appealing. In general, looks like Mayhem is the Crucible equivalent of "Siege of Warmind", ideal hunting ground for bounty "completionists" (if this is not a word before, it is now ). Will definitely try that the next chance "I am up for this challenge".
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Oct 23, 2015 14:03:05 GMT -5
Weapons of Light is a really good idea too. Should result guaranteed 2-shot kills, just make sure the 2nd shot hits the head and you're good to go.
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malgato
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Post by malgato on Oct 24, 2015 11:44:13 GMT -5
I also tried this challenge wittyscorpion and I did not do well... that gun sucks, so this looks to be a frustrating pvp quest.
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malgato
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Post by malgato on Oct 24, 2015 11:45:51 GMT -5
Of corse... I still haven't finished the PvP portion of the sword quest nor have I finished the Last Word portion of the Chaperone quest. So clearly I have some annoying pvp in my future.
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