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Post by Pegasus Actual on Oct 29, 2015 17:30:52 GMT -5
The fact that the XIM exists annoys me. I don't like the idea of facing off against people in FPS games that are being played on consoles when they have an advantage of using a much more precise mouse and keyboard setup. But I like the idea of facing you while you have a $150 Microscuff.
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eLantern
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Post by eLantern on Oct 30, 2015 10:15:21 GMT -5
It's still thumbsticks!
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wittyscorpion
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All warfare is based on deception.
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 30, 2015 18:27:36 GMT -5
Just checked, Amazon out of the Elite controllers (3rd party from $299, hah!). Microsoft store says the controller will ship by 11/30/15. This thing is sold out everywhere again, even the "Ship by 11/30" one on Microsoft Store page. I suspect that MSFT is intentionally withholding inventory to create the appearance of high demand. Conspriracy theory aside: this is actually good thing for me. On the one hand, the logical voice is telling me to wait until at least December. On the other hand, if it is easily available I probably will end up impulse buy. The current situation is forcing me to wait, which is good.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Nov 2, 2015 7:58:26 GMT -5
FYI: There have been some reports of weapon and character removal in Destiny by making one of the paddles the "x" button and putting the controller down... So be warned. Have fun with your fancy controller and Halo, I sadly only have a PS4
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Slick
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Taking the piss
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Post by Slick on Nov 2, 2015 15:19:04 GMT -5
You can basically only set the controller on a hard surface worry free. You can forget about setting it on your lap, the paddles will get pushed on. One solution I found though was to place the controller in such a way that it'll be vertical to you (looking at it from a 90 degree angle), but the handles will rest on the uppermost point on your leg. I'm having a hard time using all four paddles at once mistake free. I had no idea I had a tendency to squeeze the controller so much when I play. I also lack the training to use four paddles correctly, which results in knifing or reloading instead of jumping, which results in deaths so I use only two in the meantime. When I become well adjusted, I'll attempt to use all four again. The perk for using only two is the mindless squeezing on the paddle when you want to jump or knife.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 2, 2015 15:26:27 GMT -5
I posted this in the "Controller setup" thread, should have put it here instead: Elite pro tip (and life saving ones if you play Destiny : ) )
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 2, 2015 17:59:51 GMT -5
Availability update from Major Nelson:
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 4, 2015 12:20:12 GMT -5
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Nov 10, 2015 8:08:42 GMT -5
The sprint delay is so weird. When I google it I see all sorts of conflicting information. As far as I can tell from playing the game it gets triggered if you're holding the sprint button when your input returns to center. I think avoiding it comes down to clicking and releasing to sprint. If you hold down the sprint button you will screw yourself. People don't even seem to agree as to whether it's intentional or a bug. I'm going to say bug, it certainly feels like something that's broken. If it's a 'feature' then it is total shit. Agility makes you go faster. This does not make you go faster. It does not do the same thing as agility, essentially, because run speed is actually important. And I kind of doubt that it noticeably helps your ADS strafing speed. Even if it does, whenever I play dress-up as a knuckle-dragging FPS-played-with-a-controller caveman I kind of like having some low sensitivity available on my left stick to help adjust my aim. But maybe that doesn't apply to Destiny, I mean seriously who the hell would play this game with a controller anyway? I'm really starting to not like this guy. Wtf I'm not quite sure what this dude is even trying to say but boy does it sound Foxtroting stupid. But who doesn't hate... sticky dead zones... that throw your reticule around when making... tight adjustments. I say we go to his house and beat him up, who's with me DenBros?
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 10, 2015 13:03:07 GMT -5
I have no idea what he is talking about, but all of these discussions make me curious, and want to knowi how the controller works better (especially on thumbsticks).
The aspects I want to know more and/or get better:
1) To this day I still don't have a "scientific" way to optimize my sensitivity. Any suggestions? 2) To make things interesting, the new wave of games start breaking down the sensitivity into "Horizontal" and "Vertical". How does latter work? Adjust look up-and-down speed? 3) Never tried to understand and get better at things like "cancel sprint" and "cancel reload", suggestions? 4) Stick "dead zone": what is it exactly and how can I tell whether it is a problem for me or not? 5) "Hair Trigger": how useful is this?
So far I managed to use a consistent controller scheme across Destiny/Halo/CoD with reasonable success (as in I did not suck any more than before), using a claw grip on a standard controller. For bros who have got the Elite, what are the top 1-3 things that the controller is making your life easier?
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Post by blackbarney on Nov 10, 2015 14:11:52 GMT -5
1. I think the top players are mostly using a sensitivity of 3 or 4
3. i flirted with this stuff for a bit but it didn't make a big impact for me. I especially hated the cancel sprint. Cancel reloads were more useful.
5. Ok, apart from the paddles, this was my favourite feature of my SCUF. You have to adjust it per game though. The settings would be totally different game to game. Mine was optimized for CoD. I was instantly firing or ADSing my gun if I even breathed on the controller. This reduces your TTK by a fraction which you know can make a difference. I love the hair triggers.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Nov 10, 2015 23:23:09 GMT -5
I have no idea what he is talking about, but all of these discussions make me curious, and want to knowi how the controller works better (especially on thumbsticks). The aspects I want to know more and/or get better: 1) To this day I still don't have a "scientific" way to optimize my sensitivity. Any suggestions? Well, kind of... I'll get to that. Yep. Actually it seems like many (most?) games are less sensitive on the Y-axis than the X-axis. That makes some sense on thumbsticks if you find yourself looking up or down on accident when you're only trying to look left/right. I'm not even sure what sprint cancel in this context is. I'd be surprised if you didn't start reload canceling (by sprinting) in COD just from naturally playing the game. At some point you should have noticed that you have your ammo in the gun well before the animation finishes, and you can start sprinting again with no penalty. Using stuff like weapon change to cancel reloads can be very useful. I'd say they are techniques worth using. I never did any YY style canceling until I changed my XIM settings to make my weapon swap button super accessible. It saves my life regularly to be able to get out of reload animations quickly. This is kind of a misnomer. The sticks themselves don't really have dead zones. If you plug your controller into a windows system and look at what's going on in the game controller settings you'll see that any movement is detected. The real problem is that sticks will not rest perfectly centered. The more use you get out of them the more off they'll probably rest. So dead zones are implemented software side to prevent small drift movements when you believe your sticks are centered. If the X or Y values don't reach a certain threshold the game registers no movement (well that would be a square dead zone, I'm sure there's lots of circular out there so they'd do some a^2+b^2=c^2 action and check a single magnitude, but you get the point). The problem is these zones are often way too broad leading you to not register movement when you expect to, and when you finally do the jump from no movement to some movement is too sharp and hard to control. So I guess the way you'd tell how much of a problem a dead zone is would be to see if you are having trouble with small, fine movements. ADS aiming, sniping, etc... Sounds pretty useful to me. Here's the thing, not only do these possibly differ in things like deadzone size... they differ in other look mechanics. Most of the time games don't respond linearly. That is once you get out of the deadzone, moving the stick 2 units won't move your screen twice as fast as moving it 1 unit. It will probably be more. That's not necessarily a bad thing but it murders your muscle memory. If games don't respond the same it's very hard to get consistent aiming skills. Not only is there that sort of acceleration based on your stick's deflection angle, many games implement time based acceleration. So let's say you have your stick at max deflection... you start rotating at say... 100...units whatever. Maybe after 1 second of holding it, it will jump up to 150. Or maybe every frame it accelerates a little bit. If you want to see what a fairly clean stick response looks like, load up Titanfall, just go to training or whatever. Go into your settings and there is an option to disable dead zone altogether, and an option to disable movement protection or something, it's basically just dead zone protection on the left stick, which typically isn't that controversial. You should notice that when your thumbs are off the sticks your character will probably move slightly in a random direction, and you'll start aiming slowly in a random direction. But if you start using the controls you'll see you gain an advantage in that the game will respond to your slightest movements. I forget what other dead zone settings they had, low/medium/high? Mess with them all, notice how much later the response is on high. Try to do really small aiming movements left and right with a high deadzone and compare it to low or none settings. With my XIM it tries to correct for all the various look mechanics of games so that you get that 1:1 mouse feel that PC users like. Having aiming work differently depending on what game you're playing is a big no-no for the FPS genre. It's pretty old at this point, but denkirson.proboards.com/thread/4373/game-mechanics-comprehensive-breakdown gives some good info about visualizing deadzones and stick throw vs turn speed to get a better idea of the issues involved. What does that mean for setting up your controls? Well with elite they have some kind of anti-deadzone option, so if a game has a big deadzone that you don't like, it might be a big help, I don't actually know what kind of options they give you as far as fighting dead zones though so maybe you can't perfectly overcome a deadzone but it is probably still a good feature regardless. The curves they give seem like they're all pre-baked and thus probably of limited use. But they might be able to take a look mechanic that you really hate into something that feels a bit better. If the dream is to get all your games to respond the same to your thumbs then it's an endless battle and they're going to have to add more advanced options to the elite controller.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 11, 2015 0:31:52 GMT -5
Thanks a lot for the info. There are a lot to digest and experiment, but now I have great interest in becoming more knowlwdgeable on these matters.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 18, 2015 18:49:21 GMT -5
FYI: microsoftstore.com has Elite Controller in stock again, I just placed my order.
The confusing part: before I place the order, it claims a "ship by" of 12/28. But after I place the order, it says ship-by=11/30. Not sure which one is accurate. I'll report back once I know for sure.
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wittyscorpion
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All warfare is based on deception.
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 6, 2015 13:54:21 GMT -5
This is not really an Elite controller related question, but since we discussed intricacies about controller in general, it is a good place as any. While watching pros play tournaments, I often notice that they use aiming reticle to draw a small circle before game starts. I was told that they do this for the brain to get a feel of the sensitivity. Today while playing "Snipers" I tried it, and surprised by how difficult it is for me to do it. Any vertical movements during the circle drawing are very crappy, what I ended up drawing is more like a very ugly looking random polygon . I assume that this is an indication of how terrible my aim is? Or is it the expected effect of Halo 5 aim acceleration? I am interested to knowing how easy/difficult this is for other bros.
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Post by blackbarney on Dec 6, 2015 14:36:29 GMT -5
I would say your settings aren't optimal. If you were in a mid to long range firefight and everything else being equal, who will win, the guy who draws precise circles or the spaz that is tracing a clumsy rhombus?
Being able to make comfortable adjustments to easily head shot is important. They're settings are better. Probably controlling their deadzone and all sorts of stuff that I don't understand.
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eLantern
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Post by eLantern on Dec 7, 2015 16:49:01 GMT -5
This is not really an Elite controller related question, but since we discussed intricacies about controller in general, it is a good place as any. While watching pros play tournaments, I often notice that they use aiming reticle to draw a small circle before game starts. I was told that they do this for the brain to get a feel of the sensitivity. Today while playing "Snipers" I tried it, and surprised by how difficult it is for me to do it. Any vertical movements during the circle drawing are very crappy, what I ended up drawing is more like a very ugly looking random polygon . I assume that this is an indication of how terrible my aim is? Or is it the expected effect of Halo 5 aim acceleration? I am interested to knowing how easy/difficult this is for other bros. 343i have acknowledged that some players have identified an issue that occurs due to variance in controller hardware, commonly referred to as “slow turn” bug. This can cause players to become unable to, or inconsistently reach what they call a “pegged” state. The “pegged” state is a region in the outermost range of the analog aim stick in which they blend the players turn speed to a much faster rate. This issue is compounded as the control input fluctuates depending on multiple factors - if you are applying even the slightest bit of downward pressure (clenching), moving the stick around the edges a bit (which is why it’s even more problematic when aiming diagonally), or torquing the stick on the edge a bit more than normal (at least for some controllers). Maybe part of your problem simply lies within how aggressive you are on the thumbstick, but if it's more setting related know that 343i plan to release new tuning tools for controller settings (specifics coming next week) to help fine tune a particular preference.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 7, 2015 16:53:46 GMT -5
I am aware of that problem but I am not sure whether my thing can be contributed to that. I'll see what happens once they have something released.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 12, 2015 0:12:20 GMT -5
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Post by blackbarney on Dec 12, 2015 12:19:11 GMT -5
So is Santa going to bring me one of these or no? Anyone have any inside information on what goes on up North ?? I'm too old to check my mom's closet now to get the inside scoop
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eLantern
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Post by eLantern on Dec 14, 2015 14:49:22 GMT -5
I'll be trying a setting that reduces the Aim Acceleration to 2 (instead of the default 3) and bumps the sensitivity up from my setting of 4 to 5. I'll also mess around with the inner dead zone and maybe the outer -- maybe. I look forward to the future horizontal vs Vertical and granularity adjustments that they plan to release later.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 22, 2015 13:51:54 GMT -5
I finally got my Elite Controller. I am now looking for advice on how to configure the controller, as well as the "advanced controller settings".
Sensitivity vs. Aim Acceleration: what are your thoughts on tweaking these?
Inner and Outer dead zone: what are your experience?
Elite Controller setup?
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wittyscorpion
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All warfare is based on deception.
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 23, 2015 16:58:22 GMT -5
I finally got my Elite Controller. I am now looking for advice on how to configure the controller, as well as the "advanced controller settings". Sensitivity vs. Aim Acceleration: what are your thoughts on tweaking these? Inner and Outer dead zone: what are your experience? Elite Controller setup? My initial crack at this: Halo 5 controller setup:Aim Acceleration = 2 Sensitivity: was 3, but trying to increase it to something like 5-6 with the tallest Elite thumbsticks Inner deadzone: set it to 0 because my new controller does not drift when idle Outer deadzone: left it at 10% for now Vibration: On (but effects are greatly reduced on Elite controller, more below) Auto stabilize: on Maintain Sprint: off Assassination: off Hold to clamber: off Hold to crouch Clench protection: on Elite Controller setup with paddles (keep in mind I am doing crawl on the right hand side): For reference: XONE accessory appLayout = "Pashooter" (variant of Green Thumb that puts sprint on B) Left top paddle = Crouch Left bottom paddle = Sprint & Zoom Right top paddle = Melee (tentative) Right bottom paddle: unmapped. With claw grip on the right hand side I ran out fingers As a result, I have the following controls (melee and crouch have two controls): Left thumb on left thumbstick for move Left index finger on left bumper for grenades and left trigger for smart link & stabilize Left middle finger on top paddle for crouch Left ring finger on bottom paddle for sprint & zoom Right thumb on right thrumbstick for aim and melee Right index finger on face buttons: X = action, Y = reload, A = jump/clamber, B = Sprint & Zoom Right middle finger on right bumper for thrursting Right ring finger on right trigger for shooting Right pinky on paddle for melee (mainly for ground pound) Stick curve: experimenting with "smooth" profile on both sticks Trigger "deadzone": first of all I turned on "hair trigger" on both sides. Because Plasma Pistol's charged shot requires full range motion on the right trigger to activate and hair trigger can not achieve that with the default deadzone setting, I decreased the max deadzone configuration to make that possible; Vibration: reduced trigger vibration to 0, main vibration to last full dial I'll see how it goes and report back.
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malgato
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Post by malgato on Jan 2, 2016 18:04:56 GMT -5
I've never tried claw, but isn't the point of Scuffs and Elite to remove the need for claw grip?
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Post by blackbarney on Jan 3, 2016 14:06:28 GMT -5
Correct
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jan 4, 2016 12:02:25 GMT -5
Yes, if you have a premium controller there is no need to claw.
I on the other hand have already clawed for years and see no need to change.
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eLantern
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Post by eLantern on Jan 5, 2016 20:04:42 GMT -5
I personally went back to a mostly default setup across the board except these: turned off vibration, assassinations, the standard auto-stabilize setting, the maintain sprint setting, and I made crouch non-toggle; plus, I reduced the deadzone down to 5%. I'm thinking I may go back and toy with the aim sensitivity and acceleration settings again... I probably will re-try 2 acceleration with 5 or 6 sensitivity again; also, I may turn the standard auto-stabilize setting back on as there have been several instances where I wished I had it set to the default.
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