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Post by RageHulkSmash on Nov 14, 2015 13:51:39 GMT -5
I always believed that LMGs should be more powerful than ARs, but it looks like that is contrary to popular belief. If the TTK is equal between them, then what are the perks of using an LMG over an AR?
You could say LMGs have bigger mags than ARs. I would say LMGs have longer reload times to compensate. So in a perfect world, LMGs with fast mags should be roughly equal to ARs with extended mags. We are not in a perfect world though, LMGs have slower ADS times and slower ADS movement as well. So shouldn't LMGs get another benefit to compensate for this?
Other cods have tried to give LMGs more perks like less recoil when crouched/proned or infinite range, but those cods also had slower movement speed with LMGs equipped. BO3 doesn't have either of these, which I thoroughly enjoy. Prone benefits and movement speed deficiencies just force LMG users into a more campy playstyle. I feel like I can roam the map without carrying a ball-chain around with me in this game. Although, infinite range could be something to consider if they do nerf LMG damage.
Given Treyarch's track record of creating shitty LMGs, I wouldn't be surprised if LMGs get more nerfs though.
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exxtrooper
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Post by exxtrooper on Nov 14, 2015 13:56:13 GMT -5
Shitty?
I havent put too much time into this game as of yet, LMGs seems more than solid, and have more than enough reason to be used over some ARs.
I've been using Gorgon down lanes and long range, and cant perform nearly as well with any AR.
Dredge LMG (I think its called?) has a ridiculous firerate and burst, and is far more fun to use than the burst ARs.
And while the LMGs were really bad in bo1, you cant possibly say that the LMGs in Black Ops 2 were bad? Traget finder, stock, quickdraw LMGs were devestating and a lot of people demanded ners, which never happened.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 14, 2015 16:03:06 GMT -5
...LMGs were devestating. Yup
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Post by RageHulkSmash on Nov 15, 2015 5:11:02 GMT -5
I meant Bo1 and Bo2 LMGs were worse than Mw2 and Mw3 variants.
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Nov 15, 2015 11:23:34 GMT -5
To be fair, it's really hard to compete with the stopping power RPD or the thermal L86. But the M60 big ammo and the Mk 48 were pretty cool guys.
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wings
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Post by wings on Nov 15, 2015 13:03:41 GMT -5
And while the LMGs were really bad in bo1, you cant possibly say that the LMGs in Black Ops 2 were bad? Traget finder, stock, quickdraw LMGs were devestating and a lot of people demanded ners, which never happened. QBB LSW was garbage at launch. And if you need a few attachments to make a gun good perhaps it's not that good after all?
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Nov 15, 2015 22:48:43 GMT -5
And while the LMGs were really bad in bo1, you cant possibly say that the LMGs in Black Ops 2 were bad? Traget finder, stock, quickdraw LMGs were devestating and a lot of people demanded ners, which never happened. QBB LSW was garbage at launch. And if you need a few attachments to make a gun good perhaps it's not that good after all? Well of course an LMG with a damage profile designed for close range and mid range only is going to be bad. The rest though were absolute beasts at their intended purposes. Mk48 was a high damage 3HK that could easily do a 2HK with only one headshot or a couple of tac nades. LSAT was a medium damage 3HK that fired fast enough and was accurate enough to easily beat ARs in defense and long range. HAMR was an LSAT without any headshot multipliers for long range but let you choose between a faster fire rate (by spamming the trigger) or more accuracy (by not spamming the trigger). I can even understand not having BO3 LMGs be BO2 strong considering everything else got less lethal. But treyarch still gave BO3 LMGs better ADS time than in BO2 (excluding the gorgon) and more mobility to somewhat make up for less ammo and less damage. Also the Dingo appears to have AR sized hipfire spread so that it isn't absolute trash at hipfiring.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Nov 16, 2015 17:58:42 GMT -5
Been using the Dingo. I actually like it more than the other LMGs; it's hip fire is pretty tight even without lazer so I can jumpshot spray SMG sissys/Raifoo Waifoos in CQC.
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wings
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Post by wings on Nov 17, 2015 4:02:04 GMT -5
QBB LSW was garbage at launch. And if you need a few attachments to make a gun good perhaps it's not that good after all? Well of course an LMG with a damage profile designed for close range and mid range only is going to be bad. SMGs are for close range and the recoil on the QBB made midrange combat dubious unless your definition of midrange is shorter than mine. If Treyarch didn't want heavy gunners to be penalised too much in close range, they could have given LMGs better handling or make secondaries free whilst not making the importance of equipping a launcher practically a necessary. Another issue with LMGs I find in general is that a lot of ARs deal approximate damage, sometimes more, than LMGs so I don't see the point in using LMGs a lot of the time.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Nov 17, 2015 13:14:15 GMT -5
Well of course an LMG with a damage profile designed for close range and mid range only is going to be bad. SMGs are for close range and the recoil on the QBB made midrange combat dubious unless your definition of midrange is shorter than mine. If Treyarch didn't want heavy gunners to be penalised too much in close range, they could have given LMGs better handling or make secondaries free whilst not making the importance of equipping a launcher practically a necessary. Another issue with LMGs I find in general is that a lot of ARs deal approximate damage, sometimes more, than LMGs so I don't see the point in using LMGs a lot of the time. My definition of mid range is 700-1200u. The recoil was never that bad and being a 3HK or 4HK at ~900 RPM isn't bad either. It's the 5HK that was bad. Also I can't find a single example in BO2 where an LMG would have inferior TTK compared to an AR at the same range, excluding maybe FAL comparisons or factoring in ADS time. Excluding those two things though, LMGs in BO2 would always have equal or superior TTKs compared to ARs. EDIT: Just to prove my point regarding BO2 LMGs: - SCAR-H: 600 RPM, 3HK, 2HK if you get 2 headshots - MK48: 600RPM, 3HK at further ranges, 2HK if you get 1 headshot - MTAR: 720RPM, SMG range 3HK - LSAT: 720RPM, AR range 3HK - Type 25: 900RPM, 4HK, 3HK if you get 1 headshot - QBB: 900RPM, 3HK at SMG range, 4HK at AR range - AN-94: 600RPM with the first 2 shots firing at 720 RPM, 3HK - HAMR: 600RPM with the first 7 shots firing at 900RPM, 3HK
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banana
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Post by banana on Nov 17, 2015 14:57:47 GMT -5
HAMR and LSAT were bae
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Nov 17, 2015 16:12:11 GMT -5
Not sure if any of y'alls noticed, but is seems that the Gorgon w/ reflex sight has decreased idle sway.
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exxtrooper
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Post by exxtrooper on Nov 22, 2015 20:04:03 GMT -5
To the LMG fanatics: is Gorgon still bae? Or is Dredge the new superstar.
I'm having okay performance with BRM, thats about. Just cant use Gorgon anymore (Optic, grip, rapid fire) as I feel it has too much recoil at range making it not worth using compared to some other weapons.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Nov 22, 2015 21:34:50 GMT -5
Literally no point in using the gorgon over the M8.
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Nov 22, 2015 21:39:36 GMT -5
Literally no point in using the anything over the 48 Judge Dredge . Fixed
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Nov 22, 2015 22:03:05 GMT -5
Dredge only has the advantage when you kill in the first burst. Fail to do so and it loses all TTK advantage even against the low damage dingo.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Nov 22, 2015 22:21:57 GMT -5
Literally no point in using the anything over the 48 Judge Dredge . Fixed Uhhhh. Hmmm. Guess I can't refute that.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Nov 24, 2015 15:54:16 GMT -5
So I found out that the Recon sight in BO3 removes sway on non-snipers just like the BO2 ACOG sight, making it very useful for LMGs, especially the Gorgon, and making it a great antiheadglitch attachment.
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Post by RageHulkSmash on Nov 24, 2015 16:43:02 GMT -5
I've switched over to the darkside. Vesper/Pharo > all. Dredge is great and all but I won't get any spm using that in KC.
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Nov 25, 2015 9:47:23 GMT -5
Man up and use a shotgun. I have like 150 kills with ARs and es emm gees combined. Meanwhile, I have like 6000 shotgun kills.
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Post by Blurred Wolf on Nov 25, 2015 11:38:15 GMT -5
Man up and use a shotgun. I have like 150 kills with ARs and es emm gees combined. Meanwhile, I have like 6000 shotgun kills. After Haymaker nerfs what shottie are you using the most now?
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Nov 25, 2015 11:41:40 GMT -5
It's so sad. The Haymaker only had one week of lifetime before it got murdered by Twitter warriors because there is no way it was actually "over powered".
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Nov 25, 2015 15:50:22 GMT -5
Man up and use a shotgun. I have like 150 kills with ARs and es emm gees combined. Meanwhile, I have like 6000 shotgun kills. After Haymaker nerfs what shottie are you using the most now? It depends on my mood. I've gotten an additional 1000 kills with the hit marker maker since it was murdered. I used the brecci more that the hit marker maker before Vonderderp took it away from me. Just don't use the krm.
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Usagi
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Post by Usagi on Nov 26, 2015 4:27:30 GMT -5
Brecci master race. Argus Kos is cool, too.
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bravo2zero
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Post by bravo2zero on Nov 26, 2015 9:12:01 GMT -5
Not sure I like the Dredge, the burst action seems strange, I have only just unlocked though. The Gorgonzola is still my most effective and favorite LMG for now.
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Slick
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Post by Slick on Nov 26, 2015 14:13:07 GMT -5
Dingo is probably the only truly bad lmg this game. However, Gorgon is no longer king for sniping mindbullet users; snipers and the Shieva seem to do a better job. Dredge isn't as good as the M8, though it is an auto burst and sounds terrifying, and BRM, as noted by a Denbro avid fan of Hardc0repr0n, has an amazing niche regarding 30? range damage.
Dredge bursting is indeed strange, and it honestly needs rapidfire or you'll have to land the first burst kill. It's my second most used gun. I like the greedy setup (rapidfire, elo, stock and quickdraw) in S&D, forgoing the quickdraw on another variant of the class.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Nov 26, 2015 14:50:47 GMT -5
Dingo is probably the only truly bad lmg this game. However, Gorgon is no longer king for sniping mindbullet users; snipers and the Shieva seem to do a better job. Dredge isn't as good as the M8, though it is an auto burst and sounds terrifying, and BRM, as noted by a Denbro avid fan of Hardc0repr0n, has an amazing niche regarding 30? range damage. Dredge bursting is indeed strange, and it honestly needs rapidfire or you'll have to land the first burst kill. It's my second most used gun. I like the greedy setup (rapidfire, elo, stock and quickdraw) in S&D, forgoing the quickdraw on another variant of the class. I wouldn't quite call the Dingo bad. It's just very "QBB" like. It's like the HVK but with an "infinite" 30 damage range unsuppressed, slower ADS and sprintout times, 2.67x the ammo per magazine, and about 3.5x the reload. With laser sight and fast hands it actually becomes very good at hipfire due to having AR sized spread without laser sight. The BRM is an "infinite" range 3HK unsuppressed. It's basically like if the Mk48 from BO2 didn't have any 2HK possibility from getting a headshot and fired ever so slightly slower (like 10% slower). The Gorgon is still actually decent excluding the unnecessary magazine nerf. It has a lot of sway, but you can slap a Recon Sight on it to remove the sway and turn it into a great anti-mindbullets gun. Even with a suppressor you will get 2HKs if you get 1 headshot. Dredge is amazing. Because it fires 6 bullets and it only requires 4 hits to kill it has just as good at hipfire as the M8 or XR-2. It goes great with a suppressor because even suppressed it can miss one bullet in its burst and still be a one burst kill. In general it's a lot more likely to 1 burst people than the burst ARs in BO3 because it only requires the same percentage of bullets hitting as the CoD4 M16 with stopping power. Only thing I don't like is having only 60 ammo per mag. I obviously am saying "infinite" in quotes because 130+m of max damage range is much farther than any sightline in the game.
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bradman
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Post by bradman on Dec 3, 2015 15:09:32 GMT -5
I *think* suppressor on the Dredge still allows one burst kills at almost any range. Any numbers to back that up, or am I just trippin?
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Dec 3, 2015 16:10:34 GMT -5
I *think* suppressor on the Dredge still allows one burst kills at almost any range. Any numbers to back that up, or am I just trippin? You're not tripping. Dredge fires 6 bullets per burst. Dredge unsuppressed is a 4HK at every range (30 damage). Dredge suppressed is a 4HK up to most of short range and is always a 5HK past that (24 damage) and if you get 2 headshots can 4HK at any range. So you can miss 1 bullet in your suppressed burst and still 1 burst kill and you can even miss 2 bullets in your suppressed burst and still 1 burst kill if you get 2 headshots.
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bradman
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Post by bradman on Dec 3, 2015 19:05:24 GMT -5
Cool, it's the only weapon I've found that doesn't become a pea shooter suppressed.
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