banana
True Banana
Zoro > Law
Posts: 1,577
|
Post by banana on Nov 13, 2015 15:46:09 GMT -5
I wish they would tell us the actual technical stuff wtf
|
|
|
Post by LeGitBeeSting on Nov 13, 2015 15:49:15 GMT -5
I wish they would tell us the actual technical stuff wtf It's so we can't know what exactly to bitch about. Or to funnel more views to Drifty as hitgurl can send him stats.
|
|
|
Post by lackingdamage on Nov 13, 2015 16:16:45 GMT -5
"I also understand that people expect to know what has changed. This is especially true for weapon tuning. Part of the fun of video games is discovery and experimentation. This is especially in a "Create a Class" and Pick 10 world. Nerfed Gorgon XR-2 Pharo VMP Haymaker Buffed Razorback HVK-30 Dingo KRM-262 Argus Locus Most of these edits were very small and range from clip sizes, to damage range, to ADS time in/out adjustments, modifications to Quickdraw Bonus(es) for LMGs, recoil reductions. The general philosophy is to tune in small increments either up or down, until we have a really healthy set of data and player opinion to work from." -V Gorgon now has 40rd mag. TWO shotgun BUFFS?!?!? Yay for Dingo! Cant believe no Weevil buff. ¬_¬ Anybody know the change to the Haymaker?
|
|
|
Post by illram on Nov 13, 2015 16:20:10 GMT -5
XR-2? Pharo?? Why God??? Why???
"We noticed too many players with decent accuracy were using guns that reward decent accuracy, so let's punish them!"
And the haymaker... what, shooting someone 4 times with a shotgun point blank was overpowered?
Treyarch's nerf hammer strikes again! So frustrating.
|
|
exxtrooper
True Bro
Who the fuck is Mousey
Posts: 398
|
Post by exxtrooper on Nov 13, 2015 16:47:34 GMT -5
Is the only changes with Gorgon the reduced mag? Or has anyone checked if its still a 2 hit at 127 meters?
And any reduced fire rate and damage on the XR 2? Would be a shame to see it let go like that.
Wait for drift video i guess.
|
|
wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
|
Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 13, 2015 16:51:10 GMT -5
Don't overreact to the "nerf" yet, until we know what exactly the nerfs are. They are making very small changes AND intentionally keep them opaque. Feels more like a "human experiment" than a technical one to see how community responds to weapon balancing announcements psychologically. Do not give them the satisfaction
|
|
|
Post by LeGitBeeSting on Nov 13, 2015 16:55:42 GMT -5
Don't overreact to the "nerf" yet, until we know what exactly the nerfs are. They are making very small changes AND intentionally keep them opaque. Feels more like a "human experiment" than a technical one to see how community responds to weapon balancing announcements psychologically. Do not give them the satisfaction Sending Disk Jockey Vonderhurr death threats as we speak. I got this.
|
|
|
Post by illram on Nov 13, 2015 17:07:02 GMT -5
Don't overreact to the "nerf" yet, until we know what exactly the nerfs are. They are making very small changes AND intentionally keep them opaque. Feels more like a "human experiment" than a technical one to see how community responds to weapon balancing announcements psychologically. Do not give them the satisfaction Nefing anything within the first week of launch is a little too much of "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" for me. Wait til the player population really gets a better feel for the game. I mean most people in the lobbies have not even prestiged yet, how do you really know what is good or overpowered and what isn't?
|
|
|
Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 13, 2015 17:14:18 GMT -5
Nefing anything within the first week of launch is a little too much of "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" for me. Vahn effectively admitted that the Gorgon was nerfed only due to player complaints. What a paragon of game design.
|
|
|
Post by UrbaneVirtuoso on Nov 13, 2015 17:18:37 GMT -5
Aww~, and I needed to Gold the Haymaker.
But hey, Argus buff... still, why nerf the Pharo?
|
|
|
Post by LeGitBeeSting on Nov 13, 2015 17:19:48 GMT -5
Sticky aim + burst = OP
|
|
|
Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 13, 2015 17:20:36 GMT -5
still, why nerf the Pharo? Because twelve year olds complained about it. The game has been out for a fucking week. Come on. This is ridiculous. How many games will Vonderhaar need make before he realizes how to approach weapon design?
|
|
|
Post by UrbaneVirtuoso on Nov 13, 2015 17:22:17 GMT -5
That settles it, then -- no token spends for weapons. Nothing is sacred.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Nov 13, 2015 18:12:36 GMT -5
The haymaker was a 4 shot kill 300 rpm weapon. So overpowered.
Foxtrot you vonderhaar. And then he calls the Gorgon's belt a clip.
|
|
Slick
True Bro
Taking the piss
Posts: 1,015
|
Post by Slick on Nov 13, 2015 18:29:32 GMT -5
I really don't like to make assumptions like this, but it sure does feel the primary audience is being pandered to and they happen to be speaking right into Vondy's ear, which is unfortunate since the voice of reason is droned out. The community leader should have a vision of the multiplayer meta and not be afraid to share it. The dev's have always wanted to satisfy everyone which leads to a game where there are no niche roles for weapons, only the haves and have not's. Gotta secure that DLC funding.
The KD and SPM spread is flawed, they're basing weapon balancing options when most of the players haven't reached level 40. The data is biased in favor of the better players, it's natural to see higher kd numbers for later unlock weapons. Basing "balance" changes on a week of data is just nonsense. This is just pure pandering. I haven't seen any other game developer do this. The Hearthstone developers are the complete opposite of this; they often spend 3-6 months observing meta trends. The happy medium is 1-2 months.
|
|
|
Post by moyer on Nov 13, 2015 19:11:28 GMT -5
XR2, Pharo, and VMP are some of my favorites, so i guess i shouldn't be surprised by those. Angers me that we really have no idea what changed though. What's funny to me is, I'm level 53 playing mostly solo TDM and I feel like I've been killed by Gordons and Haymakers maybe a dozen times between the two of them. If they're so OP, you'd think more people would be using them. I'm equally surprised by the Argus buff and super curious what they did with it. Too bad mine is already gold. I was just about to try out the Haymaker
|
|
|
Post by moyer on Nov 13, 2015 19:20:06 GMT -5
I would also argue that the XR2, Gordon, and Haymaker all require more skill and strategy to use well than the other ARs/SMGs. Most players will try all 3 of these guns only once before giving up on them. Big surprise, the players that stick with these guns have above average K/Ds...
|
|
|
Post by illram on Nov 13, 2015 19:44:42 GMT -5
aaaand game still randomly disconnects or just straight up crashes to the Xbox live screen at the end of a match. (Thus losing the match data). But don't worry about that Treyarch, keep wasting time making pointless tweaks to the guns. Priorities, people!
|
|
|
Post by jaysawn on Nov 13, 2015 21:01:53 GMT -5
Assuming that the only changes made were of the type he outlined in that reddit post, it seems like the only changes that took place outside of the LMGs was modifying the damage drop off range (I assume this is what Vonderhaar meant by "damage range").
|
|
|
Post by LeGitBeeSting on Nov 13, 2015 22:13:21 GMT -5
This confirms my worries about Disk Jockey Vunderhurr being a bit spineless as in the beta when he brutally murdered Rejack just because of a tweet from Drifty. DJ Vahn folds faster than Supermouse on laundry day to twitter complaints on BLOPs3. Not a good thing, no gun or specialist is safe.
|
|
|
Post by illram on Nov 13, 2015 22:37:40 GMT -5
Still, even if it's just range, range is a big deal. Especially if you were silencing any of these guns. I liked to roll with silenced XR-2 for instance. And to the larger point, they should not doing nothing this early as anything they do is just reacting to the loudest complainers, which is a bad way to approach game balance.
|
|
|
Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 14, 2015 1:26:45 GMT -5
I really don't like to make assumptions like this, but it sure does feel the primary audience is being pandered to and they happen to be speaking right into Vondy's ear, which is unfortunate since the voice of reason is droned out. The KD and SPM spread is flawed No shit. He admitted as such with the Gorgon. Average KD means nothing. If my KD with the Gorgon is 10, but my overall KD is also 10, the gun isn't the issue. Treyarch needs to analyze weapon KD versus overall KD. Additionally, coefficients of variation are most likely being completely ignored and would readily show that these affected weapons are divisive in regards to their effectiveness among different players.
|
|
Dumien
True Bro
Black Market Trader
No engrams. Only disappointment.
Posts: 3,292
|
Post by Dumien on Nov 14, 2015 2:52:27 GMT -5
The thing about the gorgon is that it is way above average power level at a certain range with even a little accuracy and reflexes. It can FEEL overpowered when you die to it by challenging it at its perfect range.
What that person won't experience is how weak the gorgon is at close range in a chaotic situation. At close range you need to have good gun skill, movement control, and map awareness to make it work. Otherwise, you are going to lose to everything else. These are generally the same weaknesses and strengths as a sniper, but the gorgon needs 1-3 attachments/sights to be effective AND you aren't getting full movement.
It was already beautifully balanced.
|
|
|
Post by lackingdamage on Nov 14, 2015 3:17:09 GMT -5
Maybe this is human experiment to see how players in the know react to changes to the meta.
|
|
wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
|
Post by wings on Nov 14, 2015 3:50:02 GMT -5
Spawns can't get fixed in these maps. They are simply too gosh darn golly gee whiz small for someone to always spawn safely. Spawn protection sounds nice, but I think it cannot be implemented right in a game like COD for several reasons. If you can shoot the opponent but they can's shoot you, you created an even bigger problem. If you both can't shoot each other you are back to square one, and you create some kind of game of chicken. Keeping track of eachother for a few seconds and then see who fires first. Just create some maps bigger than a Foxtroting postage stamp... How about when you spawn you are invisible for five seconds so you can get to safety but you cannot use any gear during this period? I think that's what Counter Strike: Global Offensive does.
|
|
cat
True Bro
domestic cats master race
Posts: 136
|
Post by cat on Nov 14, 2015 10:51:18 GMT -5
Long Range medals now seems to be easier to achieve.
|
|
|
Post by LeGitBeeSting on Nov 14, 2015 11:41:02 GMT -5
Speaking of patches there was a 511.4MB patch for PC just now. Supposedly a performance patch.
|
|
|
Post by moyer on Nov 14, 2015 12:45:53 GMT -5
The thing about the gorgon is that it is way above average power level at a certain range with even a little accuracy and reflexes. It can FEEL overpowered when you die to it by challenging it at its perfect range. What that person won't experience is how weak the gorgon is at close range in a chaotic situation. At close range you need to have good gun skill, movement control, and map awareness to make it work. Otherwise, you are going to lose to everything else. These are generally the same weaknesses and strengths as a sniper, but the gorgon needs 1-3 attachments/sights to be effective AND you aren't getting full movement. It was already beautifully balanced. Well said. I think this is similar with the shotguns and even some of the other guns too. They're totally OP in very specific circumstances, which is a good thing.
|
|
|
Post by LeGitBeeSting on Nov 14, 2015 12:59:14 GMT -5
Well I don't think the Haymaker had a TTK advantage over anything at any range. Ironically the Haymaker's weakness is CQC as 3-4HK0 @ ~300-400 RPM isn't going to beat anything up close.
|
|
|
Post by dunsparceflinch on Nov 14, 2015 15:29:54 GMT -5
The haymaker has an advantage on PC due to:
- no aim assist making flinch a bigger problem on PC
-flinch without aim assist is something that more negatively affects ADS than hipfire
- ADS being a little awkward on PC still due to no ADS sensitivity slider.
Which basically means that the haymaker can be used for hipfire at a 3-4HK which will flinch the enemy so much that it throws their aim completely off.
On console the haymaker can hipfire at a decent range but good players won't have trouble with the flinch from being hit by the haymaker.
|
|