tooros
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Post by tooros on Nov 25, 2015 6:19:08 GMT -5
Discuss...
I've noticed a monumental drop off since Fallout 4 and Blops3. Have Bungie overstepped players limits I wonder?
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wings
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Post by wings on Nov 25, 2015 9:38:05 GMT -5
Looks like it. My activity has diminished too and I have neither game. The reasons are mainly:
1. Nightfall rewards are mostly worthless now as the light level appears to make it a 'prep' for the Raid. And if I use it for an exotic chance, I need to use my Raid gear rather than my armour for elemental burns because I'll be below 311, so I won't get a 310 exotic drop necessarily. So if there's an elemental burn, I'll be dealing twice as much damage and taking three times as much. Sure I can get a good stat roll on armour from Nightfalls, but I might have to infuse the piece numerous times with a high level Raid piece, the latter might take an age to drop.
2. Some Nightfalls are just as tedious to play as the Year 1 Nightfall strikes, like the Shield Brothers two weeks ago, which had Grounded and Trickle. So not only are you punished for using a combat skill to evade Valus McFists, you are screwed if you are a Sunsinger because Radiance will give you literally a single grenade. You can use Voidwalker or Stormcaller but then you will be dealing with solar shielded enemies, and that strike had solar burn too.
3. The guns from the Raid are mostly rubbish. The machine gun is nice but its Taken damage booster is a poor man's Oracle Disruptor. There aren't enough Taken enemies in the Raid to make these weapons preferred over non-Raid ones. The only raid weapon I can see myself using is the scout rifle. Perhaps a high level Defiance of Yasmin would suit some people if its outperforms a 1000-Yard Stare but I'd say the chances are slim. I do enjoy using Qullim's Terminus in PvP and I've taken out Stormcallers and Sunbreakers mid-Super with it. I use Baron's Ambition (aka Zombie Apocalypse 2.0) in the Raid.
4. Reduction in rep rewards from bounty progress. I have the resources to donate my way to level 25 on my Warlock, my remaining character yet to have an exotic class item, but I don't mind occasionally doing bounties if I'm not in the mood for strikes or the raid. But I don't always check the bounty board like I used to before my daily event. And those can be much more rewarding than bounties if the timing is good. I've had about 20 Motes of Light per hour when I could do The Divide, Archer's Line and the Hellmouth together. I use public events to help finance considerable Mote expenditure when I want to rank up my gear, since bounties give them little XP now.
5. The Cryptarchs have seem to have had their stock made identical since the latest patch. So my chances of a better rolled 1000-Yard Stare for PvP is gone (I'm after one with Hidden Hand mainly). I'm near the 200 Mark cap so I won't do any activities that give Marks until a special engram is sold by the Cryptarch.
Edit:
6. Some guns are still overall mediocre, either in whole or for PvE, like fusion rifles and shotguns. So two weapon types that are not worth grinding for, and are instant infusion fodder like the Iron Banner shotgun was for me. And is it worth investing in infusion a shotgun amid yet another nerf because of the crybaby shits in the Crucible? Every time I start King's Fall, everyone uses anything but a shotgun to break down the doors to allow the relic holder through. It feels retarded.
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 25, 2015 9:41:40 GMT -5
Discuss... I've noticed a monumental drop off since Fallout 4 and Blops3. Have Bungie overstepped players limits I wonder? Dying is to harsh of a word. Destiny has been out all year. You can't expect the same amount of people as last spring, or even post TTK release.....Halo and CoDBO3 just came out. It's only natural a lot of people will gravitate towards those new games for a chance of pace. I also think this year something is different. What is it? You aren't going to get quite as many people defecting to Destiny from CoD this go around. Last year Destiny caught a HUGE lucky break. It came out, and CoDAW (released a few months later) sucked and was an epic fail. AW ending up handing over a few million hard-core CoD players to Destiny. AW giftwrapped it and all!!! Destiny's numbers swelled and stay high all fall and winter. This year? Destiny isn't going to catch that break. That's not going to happen. CoD BO3 is actually pretty fun, a solid showing for the game. People who are playing CoDBO3, aren't going to be coming back to Destiny any time soon....so that's also going to take a huge bite out of the Destiny population numbers. I also think Destiny is hard to get back into. I played it to death....but now that I have been away for four or five months.....seriously, reading the above post, it's like I am reading Chinese. The thought of trying to relearn/re-remember all that, is daunting.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Nov 25, 2015 10:31:57 GMT -5
Dying? I doubt it. Like you said, CoD and Fallout just came out. Halo 5 shortly before that. People who've been playing Destiny since forever have something else to do right now, and they'll probably be back once the next expansion/DLC/content release/whatever they're calling it now drops, which is kind of exactly what happened with both TDB and HoW in Y1. So yeah, mostly what IW said. I'd disagree that Destiny would be that hard to get back into though. Give it a day or two and you'd be right back in the swing of things I'm sure.
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 25, 2015 10:35:18 GMT -5
Dying? I doubt it. Like you said, CoD and Fallout just came out. Halo 5 shortly before that. People who've been playing Destiny since forever have something else to do right now, and they'll probably be back once the next expansion/DLC/content release/whatever they're calling it now drops, which is kind of exactly what happened with both TDB and HoW in Y1. So yeah, mostly what IW said. I'd disagree that Destiny would be that hard to get back into though. Give it a day or two and you'd be right back in the swing of things I'm sure. Seriously, I have tried to follow what you guys are doing on this board (with Destiny), I look every few days.... this is how it looks to me now
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Nov 25, 2015 10:46:03 GMT -5
Hahaha! Yeah I can kind of see that, where you weren't around for some of the changes that came with TTK, but it's really not all that complex. I think you'd pick it up just fine in-game, it's just harder reading stuff on here without much context. You'd really enjoy hearing some of our conversations during the raid without context. Lots of space penises and grabbing gays.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 25, 2015 11:18:44 GMT -5
I enjoy raid and sniping in PvP, both have high replay value. The other activities are not so much and cant compete with Halo5 and BLOPS3. This is totally expected though, I know that before the season starts.
Still have not beaten Oryx on HM yet, and the challenge mode is coming, so there are still quite a bit left to play for. After that though Destiny seriously needs another raid to keep me playing, otherwise it will degenerate into Halo sniping practice ground for me.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Nov 25, 2015 11:44:37 GMT -5
Destiny is dying. Witty killed it. Bad Witty.
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bradman
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Post by bradman on Nov 25, 2015 12:03:01 GMT -5
Discuss... I've noticed a monumental drop off since Fallout 4 and Blops3. Have Bungie overstepped players limits I wonder? Dying is to harsh of a word. Destiny has been out all year. You can't expect the same amount of people as last spring, or even post TTK release.....Halo and CoDBO3 just came out. It's only natural a lot of people will gravitate towards those new games for a chance of pace. I also think this year something is different. What is it? You aren't going to get quite as many people defecting to Destiny from CoD this go around. Last year Destiny caught a HUGE lucky break. It came out, and CoDAW (released a few months later) sucked and was an epic fail. AW ending up handing over a few million hard-core CoD players to Destiny. AW giftwrapped it and all!!! Destiny's numbers swelled and stay high all fall and winter. This year? Destiny isn't going to catch that break. That's not going to happen. CoD BO3 is actually pretty fun, a solid showing for the game. People who are playing CoDBO3, aren't going to be coming back to Destiny any time soon....so that's also going to take a huge bite out of the Destiny population numbers. I also think Destiny is hard to get back into. I played it to death....but now that I have been away for four or five months.....seriously, reading the above post, it's like I am reading Chinese. The thought of trying to relearn/re-remem ber all that, is daunting. Great point concerning AW. It left me with plenty of time to devote to Destiny
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Nov 25, 2015 15:36:08 GMT -5
really don't agree that nothing besides sniping and raiding can compete with halo and BO3. You are totally over sighting the RPG part of the game, which both COD and HALO don't cater to. Destiny is about the fluent gameplay, playing together with friends and looting. Those games do not really compete on those fronts. I like COD this time around, it is one of the best ones I guess. But the soundwhoring killstreak tactical loitering instakill gameplay is simply completely different to the destiny PvP, which is more about team shotting and using assets (supers, special, heavy, grenades) in a tactical way. And PvP is not even close to the strongest point of Destiny, and still it is unique and has a place in the current PvP game market imho. If only they fixed the PvP connections on Destiny, it would be a really solid PvP game.
If these games do anything to Destiny, it is taking away some of the pure FPS players. That is not perse a bad thing though imho, at least not for the RPG liking players like myself. It probably reduces the "grind whining" on reddit and other places, because players who do not like an RPG, should simply not play Destiny imho. IW does have a good point though, that Destiny had great luck last year with bad FPS games. That does not perse mean that all players will move back to COD though, some players (like myself) might actually stay for the longer TTK and less campy mechanics of the game (no killstreak rewards and supers), and of coarse the looting and ever expanding concept of the game.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 25, 2015 15:53:03 GMT -5
really don't agree that nothing besides sniping and raiding can compete with halo and BO3. You are totally over sighting the RPG part of the game, which both COD and HALO don't cater to. Destiny is about the fluent gameplay, playing together with friends and looting. Those games do not really compete on those fronts. I like COD this time around, it is one of the best ones I guess. But the soundwhoring killstreak tactical loitering instakill gameplay is simply completely different to the destiny PvP, which is more about team shotting and using assets (supers, special, heavy, grenades) in a tactical way. And PvP is not even close to the strongest point of Destiny, and still it is unique and has a place in the current PvP game market imho. If only they fixed the PvP connections on Destiny, it would be a really solid PvP game. If these games do anything to Destiny, it is taking away some of the pure FPS players. That is not perse a bad thing though imho, at least not for the RPG liking players like myself. It probably reduces the "grind whining" on reddit and other places, because players who do not like an RPG, should simply not play Destiny imho. IW does have a good point though, that Destiny had great luck last year with bad FPS games. That does not perse mean that all players will move back to COD though, some players (like myself) might actually stay for the longer TTK and less campy mechanics of the game (no killstreak rewards and supers), and of coarse the looting and ever expanding concept of the game. 1) PvE wise, Destiny is not an RPG. It uses loot to get players to play the same content over and over again. Halo5 Warzone is a lot more attractive, to me at least; 2) PvP wise, I dont see a reason to play Destiny other than getting loot and practice sniping. I have beaten this horse to death in multiple posts in the past, so I will spare everbody here 3) Social wise: I stopped seeing most of my friends playing Destiny. Even getting a raid party together is very difficult These days, everybody has something else they would rather play. In BLOPS3, I have HSV1 clan bros on the DOM side, and 54i clan bros on the SnD side; 4) Competitive feeling wise: nothing beats Halo 5 Arena in my book. Even if I can find 2 other friends to play trials, I am not too excited about playing the same map over and over again. 2 hours per week on that tops. Honestly speaking, I am one of the players left who still manage to find excitement out of Destiny, namely raiding and sniping. Even many of the YouTube and Twitter Destiny heroes have moved on because of the drop of viewership. I am holding firm on my opinion that Raiding is the most important staple of Destiny and Bungie is making a big mistake if they think they can maintain player engagement without adding more raids.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Nov 25, 2015 16:50:56 GMT -5
I don't think they'd even need to add more raids that soon. They could refresh VoG and CE with a new "hard" mode at the current level cap, or introduce challenge modes into them like they're planning with King's Fall. Maybe even introduce a new mechanic or two. If they make the rewards worthwhile, I'm sure people would play through those again. I for one think a Y2 VoG armor set would be really nice!
The current delay on the King's Fall challenge stuff doesn't make me optimistic though. How long has it been now since they first teased us with a challenge mode tweet? 3 or 4 weeks? If that gets added in early December we're looking at 5 or 6 weeks waiting for challenge mode. That's too much time that's passed, most of the hype for that is gone now, and even reddit seems to have given a collective "meh" to the challenge mode mentions in today's weekly update. Everyone already assumes the rewards won't be worth the effort (which has been a running theme with TTK in several areas, so that's understandable), plus they're only allowing one boss to be done on challenge mode per week, so more time-gating there (which literally everyone is tired of, just release the fucking content already). Then they revealed their joke of a refer-a-friend program for the icing on the cake.
Hopefully there's more to the December patch than they're letting one, or there's going to be even more of a mass exodus fairly soon. Last year we were all salivating with anticipation of TDB being released. This year we're looking forward to...a new way to do 3 boss fights that might reward something good, possibly, and another batch of exotics being released? "Meh" indeed.
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tooros
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Post by tooros on Nov 26, 2015 5:07:52 GMT -5
Bungie you're not helping.
Last night's NF
306 Warlock - 20 strange coins. 308 Titan - 299 ghost. I already have the 300, 305 and 310 ones. So much for the 'smarter algorithms to get you what you need....'
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 26, 2015 10:31:47 GMT -5
Bungie has made it clear that challenge mode cant be added back to Y1 raids.
With that, I am not sure how much interest I would have for replaying them just for new loot, since I have already let go loot envy.
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tooros
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Post by tooros on Nov 26, 2015 11:43:47 GMT -5
I'm struggling to find a team of 6 regardless. We've raided Oryx twice - and we always have 3. Finding another 3 (via whatever) is a pain. Honestly this feels like the beginning of the end. I might have to give in and empty the PSN wallet on BlopsIII.
Even the thought of re-running all the quests on my 2nd/3rd is galling. IB is fun but I suffered RNG failure.
NF I also suffer RNG failure (see above)
Raiding is getting near impossible (and pointless for VoG and CE)
Something needs to be done, and quickly.
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wings
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Post by wings on Nov 26, 2015 12:02:36 GMT -5
Something needs to be done, and quickly. Sign up to the100.io?
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Nov 26, 2015 18:21:38 GMT -5
No, it's not dying
Reddit fireteams is a godsend
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Post by blackbarney on Nov 27, 2015 22:52:52 GMT -5
On my side, Halo V is just way more fun I haven't played Destiny since
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 30, 2015 14:35:51 GMT -5
Getting hooked on CoD/BO3 again, I can more plainly see one of my bigger gripes with Destiny. BO3 is just so much easier to 'pick up & play'.
That's the thing. There are quite a many similarities to the two games. Both are grind based. Both have levels to go up. Both have unlocks. But here's the thing. Playing BO3 requires like 1/10th the effort and scheduling Destiny does. I'm on and playing games in less than a minute. And yes, I know people are going to tell me there are tons of things to do with Destiny, especially since the new changes....but just giving you my perception of it. And sometimes, perception becomes reality.
That was one of my gripes with Destiny last summer. And it was even more pronounced with the whole Trials of Osiris thing, which was one of a couple reasons I stopped playing. I bought House of Wolves. I paid the money. But I never got to try ToO. For a lot of reasons. Timing was never right. Couldn't get the right people on. People to busy to do other things. My two cents? That was wrong. I bought it, I should have been able to play it. What type of game comes out with a game mode like that, and then puts huge barriers to entry?
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Dec 1, 2015 4:39:54 GMT -5
It certainly is easier to pick up. That is a direct result of something being a RPG I guess It is the thing I like about the game, and I really hope it stays that way. I am afraid Bungie is going to listen to the "cod players" too much and make it an PFS with some RPG elements in the future. And if it does that, it will be completely overshadowed by other games. I mean the content is decent, the mechanics are decent, but it is not something that will keep players coming back. the RPG part is what makes Destiny, Destiny. Don't agree on the trials part though. I don't think ToO put too many barriers up. Finding people to play with is not really a barrier IMHO. I really can't see your "I bought it so I should be able to play" argument. If you buy a baseball bat, should it include teammates as well? There are plenty of online games which force you to find teammates. It is still the single best FPS experience I have had since COD4.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 1, 2015 9:05:55 GMT -5
It certainly is easier to pick up. That is a direct result of something being a RPG I guess It is the thing I like about the game, and I really hope it stays that way. I am afraid Bungie is going to listen to the "cod players" too much and make it an PFS with some RPG elements in the future. And if it does that, it will be completely overshadowed by other games. I mean the content is decent, the mechanics are decent, but it is not something that will keep players coming back. the RPG part is what makes Destiny, Destiny. Don't agree on the trials part though. I don't think ToO put too many barriers up. Finding people to play with is not really a barrier IMHO. I really can't see your "I bought it so I should be able to play" argument. If you buy a baseball bat, should it include teammates as well? There are plenty of online games which force you to find teammates. It is still the single best FPS experience I have had since COD4. \I think for this example, the sports analogy isn't going to work. I paid $XXX dollars for the House of Wolves expansion. Yes, I should be able to use it. From my vantage point, I do think the barriers to entry were to high. Here's why. I would have labeled myself above the curve in terms of getting stuff done on Destiny. If I was having a hard time playing it (well, didn't get into it at all)...then I think it's pretty easy to say that most players weren't playing it either. Again, I say that, because most players didn't have what I have (leveling, friends, network, this message board, etc..) And what you say, kind of illustrates the problem with Destiny. How you feel ToO was fine how it was. Most people who did play, felt that way too. But there's the thing, you all ended up being the tallest people at a midget party. That won't work. You need bodies. Fresh blood. You aren't going to get them. The ToO process with wither away and die. The process was to hard to get into. You can say I am wrong, but I don't think so. If anything, Bungie's actions speak louder than anyone's words. From what everything I read on here with TTK, Bungie toned down a lot of the barriers. Making it easier, not harder.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 1, 2015 9:19:36 GMT -5
I maintaim my opinion that Destiny is not really an RPG (inline with what Bungie claims), it is an FPS with an investment system where looting is the main attraction.
On the PvE side, that part does not need to be changed much. What needs changing is the need for more frequent content drops, in the form of raid or "raid light". Otherwise, once the content are exhausted it is totally understandable that many players are gonna move on to other games.
On the PvP side, well, Bungie did not even try seriously to compete with CoD and Halo. Other than the die hard Crucible fans, which is a small subset even among the Destiny regulars (e.g. the Den bros who visit this subforum frequently), there is very little interest outside looting (e.g. from IB)
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Dec 1, 2015 10:46:00 GMT -5
It certainly is easier to pick up. That is a direct result of something being a RPG I guess It is the thing I like about the game, and I really hope it stays that way. I am afraid Bungie is going to listen to the "cod players" too much and make it an PFS with some RPG elements in the future. And if it does that, it will be completely overshadowed by other games. I mean the content is decent, the mechanics are decent, but it is not something that will keep players coming back. the RPG part is what makes Destiny, Destiny. Don't agree on the trials part though. I don't think ToO put too many barriers up. Finding people to play with is not really a barrier IMHO. I really can't see your "I bought it so I should be able to play" argument. If you buy a baseball bat, should it include teammates as well? There are plenty of online games which force you to find teammates. It is still the single best FPS experience I have had since COD4. \I think for this example, the sports analogy isn't going to work. I paid $XXX dollars for the House of Wolves expansion. Yes, I should be able to use it. From my vantage point, I do think the barriers to entry were to high. Here's why. I would have labeled myself above the curve in terms of getting stuff done on Destiny. If I was having a hard time playing it (well, didn't get into it at all)...then I think it's pretty easy to say that most players weren't playing it either. Again, I say that, because most players didn't have what I have (leveling, friends, network, this message board, etc..) Why won't the sports analogy work? You paid $xxx for those football shoes, or board games, or heck, how about condoms? Should they all help you provide with people to play with? Because you paid for their product? (even ignoring it is like 1/4 of the product you bought) I am not saying the barriers could not be lowered, but the fact that you need to assemble a team is not one of them imho. That part actually heightens the experience imho. The new bounty system is amazing imho for new flesh into trials. To be fair though, you and neither your friends were ever a fan of Destiny PvP. So I don't think you actually had that good of a "starting point". I might be the tallest person on a midget party, but I am having great fun at least. I can't stress this enough, but you guys should still give it a chance. It is absolutely awesome. P.s. don't underestimate the PvP focused players in destiny. They are plentiful! @witty, I think they really want to be an RPG, but every single time they try, the whole FPS (COD) fanbase acts up and starts being extremely salty. I am kinda getting tired of that. I hope they all go back to COD this winter. More content would be very nice. I would buy all of it. It is not little by any means though imho. Players moving on is no problem, players not coming back is. We will see what happens with the new DLC. Don't underestimate the crucible players though. The subreddit has plenty of active followers and the crucible radio gets 30K views every episode.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 1, 2015 10:52:25 GMT -5
Give it a chance? I had the HoW expansion and played it to death. Never got into ToO (for lots of various reasons). So there was no 'chance' for me to give. THAT is my point.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Dec 1, 2015 10:58:30 GMT -5
It only means you didn't try hard enough to be honest. Not trying to be offensive in any way but you were always kind of negative towards Destiny PvP and probably didn't feel like playing ToO. Anybody can get into trials within 15 minutes if they really want to.
I played with friends, played with people through LFG and once I even played with two guys I met on the standard elimination playlist after two nice games. All I did was send them one single message: Wanna play Trials?
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 1, 2015 11:39:24 GMT -5
I dont think that Bungie has any intention to make Destiny into RPG. A shared world shooter, that's how they want it to be categoried. I am not complaining because I am a big fan of shooters.
For a more RPG like game that is similar to Destiny, look no further than Tom Clancy's The Division. I preordered into the beta, and will check out how it plays when beta opens on XONE sometime this month.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Dec 1, 2015 11:50:36 GMT -5
That is that game that has to come out for 5 years now right? I stopped watching trailers because I couldn't handle the suspense anymore Didn't know it was supposed to be an RPG kind of shooter though. edit: 3rd person. That is a one huge bummer. Looks like Last of us. Wasn't really my kind of game. To much wandering around RPG and too little "shooting skills". Maybe my definition of RPG is not right. I just want to collect heaps of stuff and have fun while doing it. I am a min/maxer to the bone. So far destiny is the only game which has brough rpg/loot and actual fluent challenging FPS gameplay into the same game.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 1, 2015 12:19:27 GMT -5
That is that game that has to come out for 5 years now right? I stopped watching trailers because I couldn't handle the suspense anymore Didn't know it was supposed to be an RPG kind of shooter though. edit: 3rd person. That is a one huge bummer. Looks like Last of us. Wasn't really my kind of game. To much wandering around RPG and too little "shooting skills". Maybe my definition of RPG is not right. I just want to collect heaps of stuff and have fun while doing it. I am a min/maxer to the bone. So far destiny is the only game which has brough rpg/loot and actual fluent challenging FPS gameplay into the same game. I was a little bummed by the 3rd person as well, as well as the the focus on RPG than shooting. But then I played Battlefront beta in 3rd person and it is surprisingly not bad. With Halo5 and BLOPS3 taking care of my FPS PvP casual & competitive itch and Destiny for PvE, I am now looking forward to a different experience from The Division.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Dec 1, 2015 12:24:04 GMT -5
Hopefully it will live up to its hype. Will certainly check some reviews once it hits the shelves
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 1, 2015 12:33:15 GMT -5
Hopefully it will live up to its hype. Will certainly check some reviews once it hits the shelves You can preorder on Amazon just to get into beta and see if you like it before buying.
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