wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
|
Post by wings on Dec 1, 2015 12:38:01 GMT -5
That is that game that has to come out for 5 years now right? Nah that's Rainbow Six. There was cover art for Patriots in 2011 and it took so long they changed the game to Siege. Depends on your definition of RPG. I tend to look at the emphasis on character builds and how critical 'speccing' is. I only really need to change a few character skills in Destiny, say Bladedancer when changing from PvE to PvP, whereas games like Borderlands, I can change a few character skills and I basically have a different character. Amusingly, the character that basically has "one build" in Borderlands 2 is ex-military. Many shooters borrow RPG elements to varying extents anyway. COD4 basically started this with the perk system.
|
|
hebbnh
True Bro
Cacodemon expert
Posts: 2,688
|
Post by hebbnh on Dec 1, 2015 16:57:51 GMT -5
iw5000: You keep bringing up the barriers to entry for ToO, but honestly, what barriers were there that were so difficult to clear? 1. You needed a team. 2. You had to play sometime in the Friday - Monday timeframe. 3. You needed passage coins (sort of). Finding a team wasn't/isn't hard. I don't recall you playing that much during the proper time frame, but whose fault is that? I believe most of the CoD clan war stuff was limited to weekends and that didn't seem to be a problem (correct me if I'm wrong there), but for Destiny it was? I'm not sure that's a fair gripe. Passage coins were optional -- they only gave you a free win or two, or forgave a loss. Not having them didn't prevent you from participating. Nothing there was any more difficult than planning a raid time, but you managed to do that for how many months? I mean, we get it, you're salty about not being able to do ToO, but couldn't I just as easily complain about CoD clan wars if I hypothetically played CoD at that time and didn't have a clan to run with? It's practically the same gripe. Keep in mind too that you could play elimination (the ToO game mode) without actually playing Trials. So it's not like a game mode was locked away from you somehow.
|
|
|
Post by blackbarney on Dec 1, 2015 17:06:04 GMT -5
my big beef with Destiny when compared with CoD is that you can't really Lone Wolf Destiny. You need a team, you should be playing with friends. CoD I can jump in and out online whenever I want and have a blast.
That being said, I didn't buy BO3 or AW. Maybe I burned out on it, I dunno.
Halo V is the same "problem" as Destiny or the Battlefield games. I only play it if my friends are playing.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Dec 2, 2015 12:32:19 GMT -5
iw5000: You keep bringing up the barriers to entry for ToO, but honestly, what barriers were there that were so difficult to clear? 1. You needed a team. 2. You had to play sometime in the Friday - Monday timeframe. 3. You needed passage coins (sort of). You just listed three things that are not needed in say CoD, with say League Play, Arena, etc.. It's mine, being gone most weekends, but it's still a barrier of entry. See #2. That makes it more difficult. Don't mean to be a douche here with correcting but what you listed above was a HUGE, like galaxy size huge problem for Clan Wars. MEGA HUGE PROBLEM. A problem that was raised early on by most everyone who played and ultimately, was still trying to be worked out by BeachHead studios two years later. A problem that Beachhead could never truly resolve. A problem clans and their leaders were constantly griping about in Twitter. A problem that destroyed friendships (talk to Witty and Mal, they'll tell you all the issues we had to overcome). A problem that later led to me quitting it in disgust. A problem that ultimately led to the demise of Clan Wars, as Treyarch & Activision shut it down for BO3. Clan Wars don't exist now, BECAUSE of that problem (my opinion) Actually, I found planning raid stuff to be pretty difficult too. It wasn't easy. No where as difficult as organizing CoD Clan Wars stuff, but it still required a bit more effort than just "pick up & play". And with that, if I wouldn't have had this message board, my raiding efforts would have probably been cut in half or more. This is a thread about Destiny 'dying'. I offered my opinion, mentioning this is one of a couple reasons I finally stopped. My opinions are hardly 'out there' and are on topic. Google around, many others feel this way. Even Bungie, they made changes too. It's also an opinion that I don't think I've really brought up in like what? Four or five months? That's hardly worthy of the 'salty' status. Not like I am on here every day complaining. Hardly angry or mad about any of this. If anything, feel a bit more happy. I freed up like twenty hours a week of time for myself, kicking the Destiny addiction. That's a good feeling thing, not a 'salty' feeling. I think a better word to use is just 'unfortunate'. Destiny the game was fun, doing the stuff with friends. But to keep up with all that was required, it was hardly a game (at least in my opinion) that one couldn't just dabble in here or there. It required some serious time commitments. I'm not salty about freeing up that time, just feel it's unfortunate that it couldn't work out....for me. uh, not really. Clan Wars was NOT part of any of the CoD games, like Ghosts and AW. For example, if you bought CoD Ghosts. You had three parts with your purchase. Campaign, Ops, and Multiplayer. All three parts were available to pick up & play for your $$$. Zero barriers to entry. Log on, and play in 10 seconds. Clan Wars was an additional component added to the game, by a third party developer (Beachhead Studios), that was given at no charge. It was extra, not something billed in with the original price. So no, it's not really a fair comparison.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Dec 2, 2015 12:44:33 GMT -5
...and note this. I am not trying to bash the game of Destiny. I played it to death and loved it. I'm not angry at the game now either, like some personal vendetta. I could go out and buy it right now, and start playing again. It's not like i am banned or something lol. I'm not because I just don't have the time. I just see no path to playing the game, playing it well, and getting all the fun things in it....with my schedule. I'm doing something else right now that has me practicing six days/nights a week. Not even home some nights until 9pm ET. So that's life, try something else. No anger there or emotions involved.
And if someone (or a topic) comes up asking people to share their opinions, I'm going to share. I do think the game's structure is inherently limiting to increasing it's player base. Yes, all games have attrition built in, and will lose players over time. But most sequels have a kind of a 'reboot' built in, where everyone starts with a total clean slate. Destiny didn't do this well. This isn't new news. Bungie was obviously well aware of this problem too, as from what I have read on here, Bungie tried to make huge changes with the TTK expansion....rectifying past mistakes. Making it considerably easier for newcomers (or people who quit), to get back involved. So there is some basis in reality, to what I am saying.There's also considerable evidence out there, data, that shows that a huge majority of the Destiny playerbase didn't even get to the game's best parts, like Raiding and ToO. Come on, no one can tell me that's a good thing? How can it be?
If you are one of the people who bought the game and raided...awesome for you. But if you bought Destiny and never raided? You got jacked. Lost out big time. It's like going to see a movie and not getting the sound with it.
Please don't shoot the messenger, for delivering a message that is out there being said, by a lot of people.
|
|
wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
|
Post by wings on Dec 2, 2015 12:59:14 GMT -5
3. You needed passage coins (sort of). The Passage Coin economy had its faults at the beginning for sure. One criticism I know of was that Lighthouse virgins had to go 9-0, while Lighthouse regulars had to go 7-0. I was a bit short on Passage Coins myself early on even though I did do the Daily Crucible events, and it felt kinda annoying that I could have gotten the Titan helmet if I had more Passage Coins. The bounty system looks like it has made a correction to this so weaker teams can get the practice from playing Trials instead of being locked out due to currency issues, and then spending time elsewhere to mitigate this issue.
|
|
|
Post by blackbarney on Dec 2, 2015 13:45:14 GMT -5
I'm glad to hear someone else lost a friendship over Clan Wars. I thought it was just me and felt super guilty
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Dec 2, 2015 14:04:34 GMT -5
I'm glad to hear someone else lost a friendship over Clan Wars. I thought it was just me and felt super guilty I don't think there was a clan that made Diamond division....that DIDN'T have friendships get ripped apart.
|
|
|
Post by blackbarney on Dec 2, 2015 14:07:52 GMT -5
we didn't even make Diamond division I think. I wanted to so badly.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Dec 2, 2015 15:41:46 GMT -5
we didn't even make Diamond division I think. I wanted to so badly. yeah, I shouldn't have said what I did. The process was brutal to all clans, regardless of divisions.
|
|
malgato
True Bro
Farm ammo, then everyone wipe.
Posts: 1,195
|
Post by malgato on Dec 2, 2015 22:41:17 GMT -5
Ironically, my experience with CoD v Destiny is completely opposite yours, Stone. I enjoy playing Destiny at any time, with no barrier. It is still my preferred solo game. CoD sucks solo. And I am having no luck getting into a group. Everytime I get on, it seems like my friends are all already in full parties. Or playing SnD (lame.....). So I play a game or two solo, hate the experience, and switch to Destiny. There is still a ton to enjoy in Destiny - I like doing bounties. And we have so many types of bounties available now - Vanguard, Crucible, Queen/Reef, Gunsmith. Plus daily and weekly missions for PVE and PVP. Plus heroic or regular strikes. And there are so many story missions. I still have not completed all of them on any of my three characters. It is still a super addictive game, so I don't blame you for staying away. It can still suck you in for far too many hours...
I find there is far less fun for me in CoD. Especially solo.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Dec 3, 2015 9:01:04 GMT -5
Ironically, my experience with CoD v Destiny is completely opposite yours, Stone. I enjoy playing Destiny at any time, with no barrier. It is still my preferred solo game. CoD sucks solo. And I am having no luck getting into a group. Everytime I get on, it seems like my friends are all already in full parties. Or playing SnD (lame.....). So I play a game or two solo, hate the experience, and switch to Destiny. There is still a ton to enjoy in Destiny - I like doing bounties. And we have so many types of bounties available now - Vanguard, Crucible, Queen/Reef, Gunsmith. Plus daily and weekly missions for PVE and PVP. Plus heroic or regular strikes. And there are so many story missions. I still have not completed all of them on any of my three characters. It is still a super addictive game, so I don't blame you for staying away. It can still suck you in for far too many hours... I find there is far less fun for me in CoD. Especially solo. Yeah, I can DEFINITELY see where you are coming from. I can't disagree with what you said. Destiny does have solo elements to it's game, like you said. Bounties, weeklies, getting stuff done solo for materials, etc...all the stuff you just said. Whereas CoD ....it takes a bit of work (with one's mindset) to play solo. I guess embrace one's masochistic side? Something like that? From my own personal experiences, most of the struggles with solo play are tied to stats. We judge our CoD self worth, by the stupid stat sheet that is rubbed in our face after every game, and then made worse, by coming to board's like these where it seems like every single person drops 60 kills a game, and sports a shiny 2.50 KD ratio. It's really tough to let that go (at least for me, and how it 'seems' for other people too) But if there's one thing I got back after my break from CoD, with playing BO3...is the ability to let that sh1t go. I pretty much went two full prestiges playing 90% of them solo. Just worked hard at ignoring the stat page. Life didn't end for me. I just picked up and played. And started having fun. The stat page reflects nothing but your past experiences. It says nothing about how you do NOW. Anyways, after a while (I'm almost 4th prestige)...suddenly I find myself playing well again, AND mostly grouped up again. Kind of rebuilt the friends-list very fast. Now I'm dropping 30, 40+ kill games again. More fun. Another thing. I guess for me, after some time with Destiny, I found the above Destiny things you described to become very rote. Found myself just going through the motions doing all those things (weeklies, bounties, etc..) with little care if I was even having fun. I was doing it, solely to level. It always played the same. It's AI bot FPS'ering. CoD? While every Dom game is just the same 'Dom game', every game is unique because it's 11 other unique individuals. It's exhilarating and angry hair pulling at the same time. It draws out emotions/excitement, while Destiny's weekly/bounty/etc.. stuff I would do while reading a book and talking to my wife. Thats' not 'fun' for me, when I already know how every alien will behave ahead of time (it is fun though, if I have friend along with me on the ride, to bs with) For me, the raiding was what got me going with Destiny, other interactions with people - which maybe explained some frustration as that stuff is tied in closely with keeping up with lists, schedules, and getting loot (ie, max playtime). Additionally so with ToO. I'm dependent upon other people with strict scheduling. As I've said a million times, my personality type gets obsessive and doesn't mix well with that. At all. Again...I am not trying to bash Destiny here. I think that's the impression people are getting. The thread topic was about "Destiny dying" though. I'm just chiming in with some thoughts from someone who did quit the game. Someone who can give the perspective from the other side.
|
|
wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
|
Post by wings on Dec 3, 2015 12:12:13 GMT -5
Bungie could do with adding more game modes to the Crucible. Since shotguns are getting nerfed to oblivion thanks to COD squeakers like Datto et al, there'd be fewer issues with the likes of King of the Hill being in the game, except for Supers may be. There's only so much the current game modes can do before it goes stale. Rift I enjoy but if the rewards were bumped up to what they were during House of Wolves, I'd play quite a few hours each week instead of my token Daily Crucible event because I'm hoping for a 1KYS with Partial Refund, Quickdraw and Hidden Hand from the Cryptarch.
|
|
wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
|
Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 3, 2015 15:09:13 GMT -5
malgato: not sure whether your issue with CoD is temporary or not. I personally have found out that the experience before Dead Silence and after are quite different, and in general my CoD experience always becomes a lot better after 1 full prestige. So maybe you can play through 1 full prestige and then re-assess. However, I can understand your dislike of solo experience. In the past the most fun we had on CoD are always coming from partying up. I am not a big fan of CoD solo either, although I also don't hate it. I solo CoD opportunistically mainly for ranking up purpose (Kill Confirmed is the game mode I play), and most of my fun come from playing with friends. For Solo, I like Halo Arena the most. Most of the times the games feel tight, which I like. I am probably the minority on this aspect though, because I came to realize that most players, who playing solo, prefer to stomp the opponents.
|
|
wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
|
Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 4, 2015 23:54:29 GMT -5
343i are giving free monthly updates for Halo 5, and there might be a thing or two that Bungie can get inspiration from: denkirson.proboards.com/thread/8067/xmas-arrives-early-halo-cartographers1) add more content on a regular basis (granted, it is way harder to add new content for Destiny than Halo 5); 2) Offer tools to community to create content (again, much harder to impossible for Destiny); 3) Provide more structured experience for "competitive PvP" (probably not something Bungie is interested, nor are most of the fans); Just some ideas to keep the conversation going here. It's not like we have a lot of other stuff to talk about anyway
|
|
|
Post by GodMars on Dec 6, 2015 18:54:06 GMT -5
This is rumor control.
Destiny is not an RPG. Destiny PvP is not a strength for the game.
|
|
tooros
True Bro
Pony Stark
Posts: 1,306
|
Post by tooros on Dec 7, 2015 4:18:04 GMT -5
I've decided to leave it for a month or so. 'Just jaded. It's a shooter with a massive RNG in charge. I agree with many points above - we joked about it being a job. It really got to be like that for a while; daily, weekly, nightfall, bounties, occasional raids - all x3. Believe it or not, the quests are what I think caused the decline it for me. I enjoyed doing them ONCE. The thought of doing them again x3 was numbing. I'm getting my loot fix from Diablo III (no really! ) and FPS from BlopsIII for a while. I have The Witcher ready for the inevitable Xmas doldrums. Destiny can sit for a while. I Think the meagreness and grind has just got to me after, pretty much every night, since launch.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Dec 7, 2015 13:44:19 GMT -5
Witcher is a game I would like to maybe try, if I can find some time. It seems like it's like GTA? If so, I might like it.
|
|
wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
|
Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 8, 2015 18:37:34 GMT -5
|
|
Dumien
True Bro
Black Market Trader
No engrams. Only disappointment.
Posts: 3,292
|
Post by Dumien on Dec 9, 2015 2:34:24 GMT -5
Right now Destiny is sort of this hovering entity. It is always there. There is always something I can do. I just don't have all the time in the world to do it. Recently I got Fallout 4, Far Cry 4, Dark Souls 2 DLC, and Witcher 3. Lots of stuff to do. Yet I keep playing and recommending Destiny it because it is SO easy to get into now...and I think this is a big point alot of year 1 players might miss.
This game is easy peasy to get in to now. You get a free level up token to boost your character. Three of coins + PoE strange coin farming lets you get as many exotics per week as you want to put in time. Even better if you are a returning player since you can use the Kiosks to get Year 2 versions of year 1 guns.
That was something Destiny had been missing honestly... a way to just grind out what you want if you wanted to sink time into the game. The whole new light level system is very beginner friendly as you get this whole "decryt them one at a time" sense of progression. There isn't this looming bar of..."oh well, guess I had better wait for next week's nightfall."
That said, the recent raid is a bit more involved and probably more difficult to dive into. It also happens to be the best to date.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Dec 9, 2015 10:14:37 GMT -5
There's only so much time one has. Ultimately, that is what decides everything.
|
|
Dumien
True Bro
Black Market Trader
No engrams. Only disappointment.
Posts: 3,292
|
Post by Dumien on Dec 9, 2015 13:43:30 GMT -5
Exactly, which is why I've dialed it back quite a bit, though I hope to play some more VIDYAgames in the next few months.
|
|
wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
|
Post by wings on Dec 9, 2015 16:54:47 GMT -5
King's Fall is the best Raid to date? Blasphemy!
|
|
markopolo
True Bro
Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
Posts: 5,567
|
Post by markopolo on Dec 9, 2015 17:31:43 GMT -5
King's Fall is the best Raid to date? Blasphemy! False. King's Fall is indeed the best raid to date. The level of team coordination, communication, and team work exponentially towers over VoG and CE combined. No longer can 2/3 uber players carry 3 under geared, under leveled, and under qualified scrubs. There are minimal instances where a death does not result in a wipe. Everyone has to know, time, and execute the mechanics of each section of KF or you fail. There are virtually no cheese spots. There are no instances where 2 people do all the work and the rest of the team gets carried. And it makes you a better player too. You get good or your team doesn't make it. KF has it all. When you beat it, you feel like you accomplished something; you don't feel like you were just a bit part player.
|
|
qupie
True Bro
Posts: 12,400
|
Post by qupie on Dec 9, 2015 17:40:24 GMT -5
I think vault of glass was better, only the cheesing should have been dealt with with a fierce hammer imho. Just make those parts of the maps no go zones or something.
I think this raid to much mechanics and too little shooting skills. The totems part is about the only place where gunskill matters a little, and it is pretty easy. The others are just ignoring ads and shooting bosses or being in a save area shooting adds without any form of objective or time pressure. Confluxes in Vault of glass are a good example of things I would like to see more. You could not really cheese it and could not hide in a corner, you had to defend something. I would like to see more of those. Don't get me wrong, I like mechanics, but they should not be the only part of the fight, it should always be a combination imho.
|
|
markopolo
True Bro
Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
Posts: 5,567
|
Post by markopolo on Dec 9, 2015 18:08:48 GMT -5
Dps is just as important as mechanics as is communication.
It seems less because dps was sooooooo important in CE and VoG that it seems less in KF but it's not.
|
|
wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
|
Post by wings on Dec 9, 2015 20:38:43 GMT -5
It seems less because dps was sooooooo important in CE and VoG that it seems less in KF but it's not. What? There were no stages in the Vault of Glass where you needed a huge burst of DPS in a short time like in Crota's End or King's Fall. If you don't do enough damage to Oryx after the first bomb phase, you get teleported instead of re-living the Bridge cheese from Crota's End with Benny Hill running to avoid the rockets. There's no such thing in the Vault of Glass, except a standard timer to defeat a boss to avoid enrage, which is present in King's Fall. The time allotted to avoid enrage at the Templar and Atheon are fair enough so you're not overly punished on your gear. Plus, with the Vault of Glass you could legitimately use a wider variety of arsenal. For a loot shooter this is important considering Bungie are on a mission to encourage weapon diversity with their weapon balancing. You can do King's Fall without communication if you all know what you're doing. Technically you can in the Vault of Glass because the mini-map gives a hint if your Fireteam were teleported to Venus present or Venus past (usually called Mars erroneously) in the Atheon fight but you might want confirmation just in case. The level of team coordination, communication, and team work exponentially towers over VoG and CE combined. No longer can 2/3 uber players carry 3 under geared, under leveled, and under qualified scrubs. There are minimal instances where a death does not result in a wipe. Everyone has to know, time, and execute the mechanics of each section of KF or you fail. There are virtually no cheese spots. Did you play Vault of Glass when it launched then? You think a level 28 fighting the Templar can ignore 'adds' like we do with the Warpriest? If the Hobgoblins didn't OHK you, the Templar's splash damage would finish you off. As for cheese spots, the Vault of Glass might have more but the best cheese found is still in King's Fall with the No Knight Strategy (I assume it's a cheese). To cheese Atheon, you had to time a jump to tell the game you're out of the map unless you were a self-res Warlock with Bad Juju. You could cheese the Templar but it's not foolproof because if the firing squad up top don't get all of the Oracles then it's a wipe anyway. Mechanics are good in the Oryx fight but you do know you can solo Oryx? And when you get teleported when fighting Oryx the Taken are lame in trying to hurt you, meanwhile the Vex can quite easily kill you during the teleport stage in the Atheon fight and you might have Fireteam members who don't know how to shoot and strafe at the same time with an LMG.
|
|
qupie
True Bro
Posts: 12,400
|
Post by qupie on Dec 10, 2015 6:59:29 GMT -5
I am not talking about DPS. DPS is a simple gear check most of the time. I am talking actual combat skills.
DPS, mechanics and communication are really important and fun, but they are the MMO skills, I also want the FPS skills to be needed in a raid.
I agree with wings on this one, except for the one that VoG let you use a wider variation of gear.
|
|
wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
|
Post by wings on Dec 10, 2015 11:21:42 GMT -5
I agree with wings on this one, except for the one that VoG let you use a wider variation of gear. Perhaps I don't use as many weapons in King's Fall than I could? But in the Vault of Glass I used: MIDA Multi-tool, Found Verdict (no point using shotguns in King's Fall), Exodus Plan RS/2, Truth, Corrective Measure, The SWARM, Vision of Confluence, Word of Crota, Ice Breaker, Black Hammer, and Gjallarhorn. Obviously I didn't have all of this gear early on. I'd have used Praetorian Foil if it actually dropped for me damn it. It won't be a fair comparison because of Bungie's stance in moving away from elemental primaries though.
|
|
qupie
True Bro
Posts: 12,400
|
Post by qupie on Dec 16, 2015 18:35:03 GMT -5
|
|