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Post by iw5000 on Nov 30, 2015 15:17:38 GMT -5
In a KC lobby I played on Sunday, I ran into a player who ran LCAR-9 with 5+ perks and the Synthe weapon, and in the 4-5 games I played with/against him, he finished every game first with 30-50 kills. Obviously he is a very good player. I wonder how much his success can be contributed to the weapon. sometimes I want to say most of a person's kill count is pretty much attributed to the patterns they take on a map, and very little to do with gun aiming skill, or even the type of gun being used. While everyone realizes it on some base level, sometimes it's easy to forget that all of what we do is pretty much tied to the same patterns. The 0.8 KD player has that KD, because he keeps running the same patterns on the same maps. Before his aiming skills can even be brought into question, let alone the gun type he is using....he's already lost most of his battles that determine his KD.
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Post by snes chalmers on Nov 30, 2015 15:42:57 GMT -5
The Kuda and VMP are nice guns...but since I've prestiged I miss the Pharo (and maybe even the Razorback).
I want to like the Vesper, it tears people down out to a nice range and works well with the silencer. But it definitely needs extended mags, and likely fast mags as well.
L-Car...haven't used that enough to get a good feel for it...seems promising though.
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Post by noscreenname on Nov 30, 2015 16:08:48 GMT -5
XR-2 is still my go-to.
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 30, 2015 16:16:26 GMT -5
In a KC lobby I played on Sunday, I ran into a player who ran LCAR-9 with 5+ perks and the Synthe weapon, and in the 4-5 games I played with/against him, he finished every game first with 30-50 kills. Obviously he is a very good player. I wonder how much his success can be contributed to the weapon. sometimes I want to say most of a person's kill count is pretty much attributed to the patterns they take on a map, and very little to do with gun aiming skill, or even the type of gun being used. While everyone realizes it on some base level, sometimes it's easy to forget that all of what we do is pretty much tied to the same patterns. The 0.8 KD player has that KD, because he keeps running the same patterns on the same maps. Before his aiming skills can even be brought into question, let alone the gun type he is using....he's already lost most of his battles that determine his KD. I am a mediocre player, and I play kill-based game types in 3 main styles (depending on how tough the opponents are): 1) aggressive flanking, and hope to catch opponents at an off-guard angle; 2) go with the pack of teammates, pick off opponents who killed "lead scout" teammates, as well as cover the flanks; 3) patrol camp ing: rig an area with booby traps and ambush flankers, hard wired (harder to detect), Awareness with controlled movements (sound whore and counter sound whore), shoot down anything enemy team put up in the air; I only go with #1 when the opposing teams are weak and campy. In such situations I run loadouts rich in perks (5+) and light on attachments, because I can pick up good weapons from the ground. The problem with this plan is I am at a disadvantage in terms of heads-up gunfight. The aforementioned player's loadout looks intriguing to me, because he is able to wield the L-CAR with little or no attachments and still beat me (and probably everybody in the lobby) in any heads-up encounters, especially in a few occasions I thought that I would definitely win. The only weapon that I have confidence in beating him is Vesper. Maybe he can do that with any weapon, but if L-CAR has any significance in contributing to his performance, I would be tempted to replicate. This setup, if effective, is great for getting through first N ranks of a prestige. BTW, the guy is already prestige 6. So obviously he has played way too much and know the maps a lot better than anybody else in the lobby.
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Post by illram on Nov 30, 2015 16:48:23 GMT -5
In a KC lobby I played on Sunday, I ran into a player who ran LCAR-9 with 5+ perks and the Synthe weapon, and in the 4-5 games I played with/against him, he finished every game first with 30-50 kills. Obviously he is a very good player. I wonder how much his success can be contributed to the weapon. sometimes I want to say most of a person's kill count is pretty much attributed to the patterns they take on a map, and very little to do with gun aiming skill, or even the type of gun being used. While everyone realizes it on some base level, sometimes it's easy to forget that all of what we do is pretty much tied to the same patterns. The 0.8 KD player has that KD, because he keeps running the same patterns on the same maps. Before his aiming skills can even be brought into question, let alone the gun type he is using....he's already lost most of his battles that determine his KD. Yeah this. Getting the drop on people is way more important to me than honing any twitch aiming skills. Watch the guy going 7-0 to start a demolition game, what is he doing? He is flanking all the tunnel vision players who just run forward on predictable starting routes. You don't have to be elite to kill someone looking in another direction.
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Post by wantonRULE on Dec 1, 2015 21:09:09 GMT -5
In a KC lobby I played on Sunday, I ran into a player who ran LCAR-9 with 5+ perks and the Synthe weapon, and in the 4-5 games I played with/against him, he finished every game first with 30-50 kills. Obviously he is a very good player. I wonder how much his success can be contributed to the weapon. sometimes I want to say most of a person's kill count is pretty much attributed to the patterns they take on a map, and very little to do with gun aiming skill, or even the type of gun being used. While everyone realizes it on some base level, sometimes it's easy to forget that all of what we do is pretty much tied to the same patterns. The 0.8 KD player has that KD, because he keeps running the same patterns on the same maps. Before his aiming skills can even be brought into question, let alone the gun type he is using....he's already lost most of his battles that determine his KD. This. I was in a game with a guy using an ICR with grip and stock and he dropped 100+ kills on my team. I had no answer for the dude, I knew it wasn't the gun lol. Every time I engaged him he either had a drop on me, caught me after a gun fight or was in better positioning I also agree with another post regarding the balance in the game. You can't definitively call out an op/best gun. I'm reading some posts about how the MoW is beast but I can't seem to find a right setup to do well with it. I've also read posts about people not liking the M8 or the Kuda, I always do great with them! Same for KN-44, that's my work horse ar. But we can all agree the pharo is great, even though some games and the type of players you go against make me switch it out for another smg. The weevil, the stinkin weevil. I want to like it but it's just kinda bad knowing the kuda exists.
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Post by RageHulkSmash on Dec 1, 2015 22:57:09 GMT -5
When the handguns are just as good as the primaries, you know balance is in a good place.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 2, 2015 12:11:51 GMT -5
sometimes I want to say most of a person's kill count is pretty much attributed to the patterns they take on a map, and very little to do with gun aiming skill, or even the type of gun being used. While everyone realizes it on some base level, sometimes it's easy to forget that all of what we do is pretty much tied to the same patterns. The 0.8 KD player has that KD, because he keeps running the same patterns on the same maps. Before his aiming skills can even be brought into question, let alone the gun type he is using....he's already lost most of his battles that determine his KD. This. I was in a game with a guy using an ICR with grip and stock and he dropped 100+ kills on my team. I had no answer for the dude, I knew it wasn't the gun lol. Every time I engaged him he either had a drop on me, caught me after a gun fight or was in better positioning Interesting you say this. One of the best games I have seen to date by an opponent on BO3....was a guy using the ICR. He then repeated his performance somewhat the next game too. The ICR, a gun most everyone (on this site) says isn't very good. Reality is, that guy could have used just about any gun on the list and pretty much matched his performance game after game after game. I later watched his games on the Theater mode. The patterns/paths he took, were good. Much better than mine. What he did seemed obvious after the fact, but before? Not so much. That's one of the problems with sites like this one. Everyone spends an unbalanced amount of time, fussing over what gun to use, and what attachments are best with it. The reality is we are fussing over something that mostly only affects a small bit of our performance. How we do in a match, is almost always about positioning, habits and patterns. Things that have very little of anything to do with guns and attachments. Bizarre how things get flipped around here. Making this up here, but probably 90% of our discussion on sites is on that small 10% of gameplay. I suppose the above just is what it is. It's easy to discuss nitpicking numbers off of charts. Argue about how one gun's TTK is 23 milliseconds better than another gun. Think one's performance will suddenly go through the roof, if they find the perfect gun & attachment combination. All that stuff is mostly an illusion, making us waste our time. Unfortunately ...an illusion that is easy to discuss on boards. People love hard numbers. Gun X's range is 2 meters better than Gun Y!!! X > Y, fact!!! On and on and on it goes. Sadly, it's not easy to discuss map patterns and movements. That's not numbers based.
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Post by kylet357 on Dec 2, 2015 13:46:50 GMT -5
sometimes I want to say most of a person's kill count is pretty much attributed to the patterns they take on a map, and very little to do with gun aiming skill, or even the type of gun being used. While everyone realizes it on some base level, sometimes it's easy to forget that all of what we do is pretty much tied to the same patterns. The 0.8 KD player has that KD, because he keeps running the same patterns on the same maps. Before his aiming skills can even be brought into question, let alone the gun type he is using....he's already lost most of his battles that determine his KD. Pretty much. I was a big FFA player in MW3 days. I used the same setup on any gun I was going to take into FFA (SoH, Quickdraw, and Steady Aim, unless it was a shotgun then I ran Hardline instead). This included weapons like Sniper Rifles. How you set yourself up, for your class and when you're playing, will matter more than anything.
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Post by wantonRULE on Dec 2, 2015 15:01:48 GMT -5
Interesting you say this. One of the best games I have seen to date by an opponent on BO3....was a guy using the ICR. He then repeated his performance somewhat the next game too. The ICR, a gun most everyone (on this site) says isn't very good. Reality is, that guy could have used just about any gun on the list and pretty much matched his performance game after game after game. I later watched his games on the Theater mode. The patterns/paths he took, were good. Much better than mine. What he did seemed obvious after the fact, but before? Not so much. That's one of the problems with sites like this one. Everyone spends an unbalanced amount of time, fussing over what gun to use, and what attachments are best with it. The reality is we are fussing over something that mostly only affects a small bit of our performance. How we do in a match, is almost always about positioning, habits and patterns. Things that have very little of anything to do with guns and attachments. Bizarre how things get flipped around here. Making this up here, but probably 90% of our discussion on sites is on that small 10% of gameplay. I suppose the above just is what it is. It's easy to discuss nitpicking numbers off of charts. Argue about how one gun's TTK is 23 milliseconds better than another gun. Think one's performance will suddenly go through the roof, if they find the perfect gun & attachment combination. All that stuff is mostly an illusion, making us waste our time. Unfortunately ...an illusion that is easy to discuss on boards. People love hard numbers. Gun X's range is 2 meters better than Gun Y!!! X > Y, fact!!! On and on and on it goes. Sadly, it's not easy to discuss map patterns and movements. That's not numbers based. I totally agree - but I always come here and I'm always interested about the numbers, the engineering in me makes me favor this site and the level of analysis that is done. And yea, the stuff you're referring to his hard to analyze and come to a conclusion. That's why I like fps games, every game is different and situations are always dynamic. I feel like those players that can pick up a weevil/sn6/poo and get 70 kills in a domination round, round after round are just more "skilled" in being at the right place at the right time. I'm not a noob, I always avoid common routes and never go down a middle of the map (plenty of fps gaming to avoid the meat grinder) yet I'm not always consistent or if I do have monster games it's never over 100 kills (85 was my highest) and it's not back to back. I would follow a great game with a 20/27 game or something haha just completely nub it up. So to that, I'll admit that I'm not a great player, which is fine - but I'm still amazed at their gaming/map/awareness intellect. .
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Post by illram on Dec 2, 2015 15:22:02 GMT -5
This game is so prone to randomness and the quick nature of death means it is very easy to have those "bad" 20-27 games, even though you personally are not really doing anything different skill wise than you were the last game. Baseball is a game of inches, COD is a game of milliseconds.
There was a good MW3 opening map routes thread, IW5k I think you even started it. I'd love to discuss opening moves on BO3. I think the first 10 seconds of any map can foster an "objective" discussion, i.e. this is the optimum route to B, this is the optimum route to the A bomb, this is a great flank route, etc.
For instance on Metro, sooooo many people still do not know you can swim on the outside of the map, the side open to the air. People don't know there is anything out there, they just assume it is a boundary. On demolition, if you start on defense, take that route to flank people going for the bomb at the train terminus and you are bound to get 4 or 5 kills, unless someone else is guarding that flank. (no one does!)
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Post by kylet357 on Dec 2, 2015 15:25:40 GMT -5
Another thing pertaining to the above point- a lot of the guns that are said to be bad on here are the ones I almost always gravitate towards (I guess I'm masochistic or something). I generally tend to dislike the popular guns most of the time. "An MP7? Pfft, I'll stick with the UMP-45".
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banana
True Banana
Zoro > Law
Posts: 1,577
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Post by banana on Dec 2, 2015 15:27:53 GMT -5
This. I was in a game with a guy using an ICR with grip and stock and he dropped 100+ kills on my team. I had no answer for the dude, I knew it wasn't the gun lol. Every time I engaged him he either had a drop on me, caught me after a gun fight or was in better positioning Interesting you say this. One of the best games I have seen to date by an opponent on BO3....was a guy using the ICR. He then repeated his performance somewhat the next game too. The ICR, a gun most everyone (on this site) says isn't very good. Reality is, that guy could have used just about any gun on the list and pretty much matched his performance game after game after game. I later watched his games on the Theater mode. The patterns/paths he took, were good. Much better than mine. What he did seemed obvious after the fact, but before? Not so much. That's one of the problems with sites like this one. Everyone spends an unbalanced amount of time, fussing over what gun to use, and what attachments are best with it. The reality is we are fussing over something that mostly only affects a small bit of our performance. How we do in a match, is almost always about positioning, habits and patterns. Things that have very little of anything to do with guns and attachments. Bizarre how things get flipped around here. Making this up here, but probably 90% of our discussion on sites is on that small 10% of gameplay.
I suppose the above just is what it is. It's easy to discuss nitpicking numbers off of charts. Argue about how one gun's TTK is 23 milliseconds better than another gun. Think one's performance will suddenly go through the roof, if they find the perfect gun & attachment combination. All that stuff is mostly an illusion, making us waste our time. Unfortunately ...an illusion that is easy to discuss on boards. People love hard numbers. Gun X's range is 2 meters better than Gun Y!!! X > Y, fact!!! On and on and on it goes. Sadly, it's not easy to discuss map patterns and movements. That's not numbers based.What gun somebody uses is the easiest way to improve your performance. It's a somewhat small difference but it's a way easier fix than fixing your playstyle
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Post by illram on Dec 2, 2015 15:28:01 GMT -5
Yeah I can't really feel the love the the M8. I think I know why people like it, it shoots so fast and when you do get that one burst kill it's like a really satisfying buzzsaw, but for those times I need a second, or even a third burst at long range it winds up being a slower kill than I really want.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 2, 2015 15:33:43 GMT -5
Interesting you say this. One of the best games I have seen to date by an opponent on BO3....was a guy using the ICR. He then repeated his performance somewhat the next game too. The ICR, a gun most everyone (on this site) says isn't very good. Reality is, that guy could have used just about any gun on the list and pretty much matched his performance game after game after game. I later watched his games on the Theater mode. The patterns/paths he took, were good. Much better than mine. What he did seemed obvious after the fact, but before? Not so much. That's one of the problems with sites like this one. Everyone spends an unbalanced amount of time, fussing over what gun to use, and what attachments are best with it. The reality is we are fussing over something that mostly only affects a small bit of our performance. How we do in a match, is almost always about positioning, habits and patterns. Things that have very little of anything to do with guns and attachments. Bizarre how things get flipped around here. Making this up here, but probably 90% of our discussion on sites is on that small 10% of gameplay.
I suppose the above just is what it is. It's easy to discuss nitpicking numbers off of charts. Argue about how one gun's TTK is 23 milliseconds better than another gun. Think one's performance will suddenly go through the roof, if they find the perfect gun & attachment combination. All that stuff is mostly an illusion, making us waste our time. Unfortunately ...an illusion that is easy to discuss on boards. People love hard numbers. Gun X's range is 2 meters better than Gun Y!!! X > Y, fact!!! On and on and on it goes. Sadly, it's not easy to discuss map patterns and movements. That's not numbers based.What gun somebody uses is the easiest way to improve your performance. It's a somewhat small difference but it's a way easier fix than fixing your playstyle I don't think I agree with that.
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 2, 2015 16:52:51 GMT -5
A very good player probably can do well in pub lobbies (say always finish first) with almost any weapons including the UP ones, but when he is using a stronger weapon than a weaker weapon, he is still going to perform better.
I used to watch streamers pub stomping, and sometimes they intentionally use a crappy gun to try to get Nuclear. They made up for the gun's weakness largely through the skills like awareness/positioning/multi-tasking/prioritization/etc, but I can still see the stomping becoming way easier when they switch back to a strong weapon.
So, the obsession with weapons do have a lot of merits. Some weapons are just much easier to win gunfights with than the others. This is especially important when you are mediocre like me, and/or simply did not have the luxury to put a lot of time into the game (like the prestige 6 guy I mentioned earlier).
This is one of the primary reasons why CoD is so attractive to "casuals", you can pick up and play and still kill the best players in the game, if you are using a better weapon for that engagement. Halo on the other hand is very different. One "division" apart can basically mean the higher skilled player is "untouchable" to the lower skilled player in almost all gun fights.
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Post by wantonRULE on Dec 2, 2015 19:05:21 GMT -5
This game is so prone to randomness and the quick nature of death means it is very easy to have those "bad" 20-27 games, even though you personally are not really doing anything different skill wise than you were the last game. Baseball is a game of inches, COD is a game of milliseconds. There was a good MW3 opening map routes thread, IW5k I think you even started it. I'd love to discuss opening moves on BO3. I think the first 10 seconds of any map can foster an "objective" discussion, i.e. this is the optimum route to B, this is the optimum route to the A bomb, this is a great flank route, etc. For instance on Metro, sooooo many people still do not know you can swim on the outside of the map, the side open to the air. People don't know there is anything out there, they just assume it is a boundary. On demolition, if you start on defense, take that route to flank people going for the bomb at the train terminus and you are bound to get 4 or 5 kills, unless someone else is guarding that flank. (no one does!) True and I think sometimes I need to change my habits, if the routes/style in one lobby worked it may not work with a set of different players. But all in all I think the chess game skills are way more important than the gun. Heck, you can go damage with your fist if you always find yourself with enemies back to you. I liked that thread too. I'd like to see one for bo3 as especially since these maps are linear. It seems there is always only 3 paths from 1 side to the other (I always play gw and bigger maps) and I'd like a breakdown.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 3, 2015 9:18:19 GMT -5
I watched a guy go 45-17, 7 caps, against a party of us (four of us) the other night on the map 'Hunted'. He was by himself, with randoms. He also probably got half his kills knifing (I watched the video afterwards). It was impressive. You play the game and after a while, you do 'get' the architecture of the maps, the three lanes, the walls, water and other routes in it. You 'think' you know it. But it was fascinating to watch this guy, as he continually got behind us, rolled up a few kills, controlled the spawns, then capped. Watching on video later, it was fascinating to watch that game and others he played. There were no 'new' moves he did getting around us (we all know the maps at this point), but is was the combos and how he put stuff together. Little things. Seconds here, and there.
For this guy, it would make NO DIFFERENCE at all what gun you gave him. He was going to roll up 30+ kills a game regardless.
Habits are very hard to change for people. I saw what this guy did, I am now trying to use some things on that map Hunted... but sh1t hits the fan, I'm right back to same patterns I used in the prior 40 or 50 games I have played on that map.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 3, 2015 9:28:13 GMT -5
A very good player probably can do well in pub lobbies (say always finish first) with almost any weapons including the UP ones, but when he is using a stronger weapon than a weaker weapon, he is still going to perform better. I used to watch streamers pub stomping, and sometimes they intentionally use a crappy gun to try to get Nuclear. They made up for the gun's weakness largely through the skills like awareness/positioning/multi-tasking/prioritization/etc, but I can still see the stomping becoming way easier when they switch back to a strong weapon. This is one of the primary reasons why CoD is so attractive to "casuals", you can pick up and play and still kill the best players in the game, if you are using a better weapon for that engagement. Halo on the other hand is very different. One "division" apart can basically mean the higher skilled player is "untouchable" to the lower skilled player in almost all gun fights. What you call 'weaker' though Witty, is kind of hard to judge. 'weaker' a lot of the times, is mostly defined by your positioning on the map. How you define your encounters you get into. Is the Vesper weaker than the Pharo? Probably on an all around level. But we are splitting hairs with the two guns mostly, ESPECIALLY when compared to HOW you use the gun in terms of map positioning. If your patterns and movements and setups around the map are strong, you set up your encounters to suit your gun . . . . the Vesper is not weaker than the Pharo. In fact, a case could be made it's better. Just my opinion here, but when discussing 'weaker' guns, I think that term sometimes is maybe better suited along these lines. The gun in question is 'weaker' if played by a casual, ...in the typical casual playstyle way. an example. I can go opt to use the 'best' shotgun in this game, over the crappiest one. Is my performance (in terms of kills/deaths) going to be THAT much more improved, if I am running crappy routes around the map? Not setting up shots right? Not reading patterns well? Not understanding spawns and where the opponents are? If I don't have those things dialed in, my performance isn't going to improve that much more. One, I wouldn't call you 'weaker'. Two. Yes, there's always merits to using the right gun with the right attachments. It's good to know if a certain attachment is currently designed to not offer any real tangible benefit. So you use something else. Yeah, it never hurts to know this stuff. Certainly helps. My point was that in the overall scheme of things, this type of 'help' you get is relatively small when looking at a person's overall performance. A person will get 10x the bettering of their performance by changing up patterns and positioning.
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Post by GodMars on Dec 3, 2015 9:47:49 GMT -5
Latency needs to be factored into this discussion. CoD is not a level playing field when it comes to our connections to other players. My best connection is 33ms, and I regularly see 50ms games (it's an ISP routing issue totally out of my control). Hawk, on the other hand, commonly plays with 17ms latency. That's not an insignificant difference, and these sorts of differences are epidemic in this franchise. It throws weapon TTK right out the window. Accuracy, positioning, and situational awareness are king.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 3, 2015 11:00:33 GMT -5
Latency needs to be factored into this discussion. CoD is not a level playing field when it comes to our connections to other players. My best connection is 33ms, and I regularly see 50ms games (it's an ISP routing issue totally out of my control). Hawk, on the other hand, commonly plays with 17ms latency. That's not an insignificant difference, and these sorts of differences are epidemic in this franchise. It throws weapon TTK right out the window. Accuracy, positioning, and situational awareness are king. Good point. I check mine more often than I probably should. I have sometimes seen >20ms. Typically in the 20 to 40 range for me, around there? Something like that. I will see a few games a night, where it goes/spikes up into the 80 to 100, and sometimes even into the 100's. If you think about it, what yous said....break it down in numbers. Look at the big picture. Typical ADS time is around 30ms. We discuss a lot things like 'Quickdraw which can drop it down to say 20ms. Yay, we just saved 10ms and we discuss how great this perk is. Meanwhile, that 10ms is completely washed out in the lag battle with opponents, where one is typically looking at a advantage (or disadvantage) or anywhere from 20ms to 50ms. Every bit helps, but it's kind of like pissing into the ocean. You aren't making noticeable differences. What type of advantage of gives you real benefits? Benefits that aren't measured in increments of 10ms? Positioning and situational awareness. You get the jump on someone, a person is looking at around 250ms to 500ms advantage times.
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Post by lackingdamage on Dec 3, 2015 13:06:33 GMT -5
AR
Tier 1: M8A7
Tier 2: XR-2
Tier 3: Man of war
Tier 4: HVK, ICR-I
Tier 5: Sheiva
SMG
Tier 1: Pharo, Razorback, VMP
Tier 2: Kuda, Weevil
Tier 3: Vesper
ARs and SMGs are king in this game but LMGs/Shotguns can have moments. Yet to use every single game loads but say got enough time to take guess. Talk of the Vesper being banned in Esports which I don't understand at all.
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Post by Marvel4 on Dec 3, 2015 14:14:55 GMT -5
Typical ADS time is around 30ms. We discuss a lot things like 'Quickdraw which can drop it down to say 20ms. Yay, we just saved 10ms and we discuss how great this perk is. Meanwhile, that 10ms is completely washed out in the lag battle with opponents, where one is typically looking at a advantage (or disadvantage) or anywhere from 20ms to 50ms. Every bit helps, but it's kind of like pissing into the ocean. You aren't making noticeable differences. Except actual ADS times are closer to ten times of your numbers.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 3, 2015 14:36:01 GMT -5
Typical ADS time is around 30ms. We discuss a lot things like 'Quickdraw which can drop it down to say 20ms. Yay, we just saved 10ms and we discuss how great this perk is. Meanwhile, that 10ms is completely washed out in the lag battle with opponents, where one is typically looking at a advantage (or disadvantage) or anywhere from 20ms to 50ms. Every bit helps, but it's kind of like pissing into the ocean. You aren't making noticeable differences. Except actual ADS times are closer to ten times of your numbers. I just made up some numbers as I was to lazy to go searching. Why don't you help me out and give me the correct numbers then, so we can get a better picture of it. Ok?
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 3, 2015 15:35:18 GMT -5
Since we are talking about factors beyond weapon stats, my mental model is the following when going from noob to more advanced: 1) Loadouts (weapons being the most important) This is the easiest aspect to look into for performance improvement during the noob stage. Find out what loadouts are most effective (especially weapon+attachments to use) for different prototypical encounters. 2) Static map knowledge The routes, the covers, the sightlines, the "power" locations, etc 3) Dynamic situational awareness Once denoobified, this is what separates players (in pub space) into different tiers. It is a real time assessment of dynamic Intel on top of static map knowledge, including: a) teammate intel: where teammates are, which direction they are facing, and where they just got killed; b) enemy intel: red dots on mini map, audio cues, and even kill feed; c) understanding of spawns This is very tough to do very well at. The brain needs to be able to process large volume of info in real time, layer them on top of the static map knowledge, all while moving and shooting. Mediocre player (e.g.: me): busying looking for the next target / threat and put almost all focus on that; Advanced player: account for variables and anticipate the consequences; Great player: doing what Advanced players are doing, but at the same time plan for next 1-N moves: "I am going to stun this camp er who is behind cover so I can prioritize and take care of this guy who is coming around the corner, then turn around because this third guy most likely will come from this direction and try to sneak up on me after seeing my red dot on the map..." To make an analogy: it is like playing pool. The mediocre player looks for the next target (usually the easiest) and try to make that, while the pro players plan for the next N balls. (Note: this analogy obviously is not that good because the balls on a pool table are static and don't move in real time ) Many players, like me, stop short in this area. And to make things worse, we don't even think about improving because it is too hard. Instead, we fall back to a set of patterns to use based on the static map knowledge and just get by. iw5000's posts have promoted me to think harder in this area. Maybe I won't be able to do well in this area, but I should definitely start thinking about it and at least try. Maybe after doing that for some time I will see that weapons are not that much beyond tools (just like the sicks in pool game) as I imagine it to be, it's real time awareness and advanced planning that are truly important in this game (and to some extent the gun and movement skills, which are not as critical in CoD as in Halo).
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 3, 2015 15:55:45 GMT -5
The best way I can come up with in terms of how to improve in this area...is just use Theater mode. If you are playing with friends, make some notes on who went big, and what game/map it was. After your session is over, go to theater and watch a few games, putting the camera mode on that player. Doesn't have to be complicated. Just watch what he does. What routes does he take? How does he start off every game? If a particular mode like Dom....where does he post up on their side, to catch their spawns, and get his kills? Stuff like that. From what I have found, just watching one game, one map, ...a person can easily take away three to four of the above things almost every viewing. It works.
I don't know if I necessarily agree the 'pro' (however you want to define that) is looking ahead. Take Domination as an example. A person who puts up big scores. It's more like the 'pro' is very quick to realize where his teammates are, where the opponent's spawns are resetting, and THEN where to go post up to catch said spawns, ahead of his teammates, all the while not flipping said spawns, and finding a way to create ONLY 1v1 encounters with opponents (where's he's at an advantage), and avoid 1 v 2 disadvantageous situations. It's not really thinking ahead, but more like situational awareness on the fly.
Was that a mouthful? Yes. But it sort of nails it right on the head. At least I think it does, but what do I know? I don't drop 60 kills every game.
but that's my take from watching some of the best CoD players I know on my friends list. You know some of them Witty.
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Post by wantonRULE on Dec 3, 2015 19:36:04 GMT -5
Latency needs to be factored into this discussion. CoD is not a level playing field when it comes to our connections to other players. My best connection is 33ms, and I regularly see 50ms games (it's an ISP routing issue totally out of my control). Hawk, on the other hand, commonly plays with 17ms latency. That's not an insignificant difference, and these sorts of differences are epidemic in this franchise. It throws weapon TTK right out the window. Accuracy, positioning, and situational awareness are king. Yea lag is a big factor sow times. I've had bad games due to lag. I've even changed my entire game style and even getting the drop on players I get insta killed. But all in all I agree with jw. I've been playing shooters since I can remember and only really play shooters and I've always said that having good games are 90% positioning/location and 10% gun skills. Which amazes me how people buy scuff controls thinking that it'll instantly improve your kd/spm/game. It's not the controller. There is no improvement when the player continuously puts himself/herself in situations where they'll lose the fight cause they can jump and fire or whatever. I still make bad decisions and bad route selection. I'll engage and die and instantly know it's my fault because the other player is either behind cover or Has the weapon for that engagement. The only time gun stats matter is if both players are equally skilled and engage in a balance fight. Then you'd know that Ye, the vmp is better than the kuda. But for our gaming experience you just gotta flank dem nubs.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 4, 2015 8:55:56 GMT -5
This morning, I opted to not play any games before work. I went and watched a few games from last night (in Theater mode). The wonderful thing about the BO3 Theater mode is you can not only watch yourself from multiple views, but you can also play back the footage at all kinds of speeds. 1/10th speed and up! Like REALLY nice slow motion. Try it out! Anyways, I watched a game I went 19-18 in Dom (I was partied up), in which I scored like 4,700 pts (10 caps). Good lord, around 2/3rds of my deaths were SOLELY attributed to me hurrying around corners. Rushing basically. Rushing in what I 'should have' known was a high enemy location (their side of the map, we had two flags). I'm not checking corners, I'm rushing mid doorway, ADS'ing waaaaay to late. Just horrible positioning while moving around the map, from spot to spot to spot. Really, looking back at it, a lot of times I was like..."WTF, why did I do that? ?" To a large degree, I was playing this way because the triple cap frenzy stuff was going on, but still.... a few seconds of slowing down here and there, I probably could have cut half those deaths down easily. 19-18, maybe becomes 21-12, or whatever. I'm going to go out on a limb and say, in all those deaths, the type of gun I was using was completely irrelevant. In fact, in almost all my 18 deaths, I'm not sure gun type would have mattered at all.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Dec 4, 2015 10:19:55 GMT -5
Latency needs to be factored into this discussion. CoD is not a level playing field when it comes to our connections to other players. My best connection is 33ms, and I regularly see 50ms games (it's an ISP routing issue totally out of my control). Hawk, on the other hand, commonly plays with 17ms latency. That's not an insignificant difference, and these sorts of differences are epidemic in this franchise. It throws weapon TTK right out the window. Accuracy, positioning, and situational awareness are king. I'll add that latency has a significant impact on which weapons are the best. I'm of the opinion at the moment that the Argus, Dredge, Pharo, and M8 are each the best in their respective class. That is, unless my latency is higher than normal. Once I go over the 50/51ms level, their utility drops significantly and I'm better off with a full-auto. Regarding talk of positioning and such - I think that the most important element of success is engineering engagements which give you the best chance at success, given your weapon. Personally, I think a lot of my success at this has to be attributed to shotgun use. Using a shotgun and playing aggressively forces you to learn routes to get those engagements. Using the Argus forced me to learn those routes and anticipate enemies.
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banana
True Banana
Zoro > Law
Posts: 1,577
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Post by banana on Dec 6, 2015 19:33:13 GMT -5
Updated perfection into more perfection: Gorgon, rk5, mr6, sheiva up
What do y'all realistically see is wrong? Looks perfect to me and the harvard stat analysts
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