Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 7, 2016 8:56:02 GMT -5
Oh boy. I've been wanting to talk matchups and stuff since LTS is waaay better than in TF1.
So. As Legion. My boy. Legion. Here are some matchups and things you want to do. Extended mags is really good and I've learned to love it. Against coordinated players you might consider stronger shield.
Against tone: Check his walls. If you notice that you can burn it down (they aren't using buffed particle wall)...by all means do it and tell your teamnates that you are about to. Boom bam. Tone just got wrecked. Up close you wreck tone, but in a long range fight you really have to make the sniper shots count. Against strong particle wall you need to make sure you don't fight them in a predator cannon vs 60mm war. You are probably going to lose that fight. They best times to punish them are obviously between wall uses and if they ever try to push up.
Against Ion: A rough matchup. You really can't do anything against a smart ion but play a stalemate game. I have found two decent strategies. Neither truly works if the ion has a buddy.
1) Call him out and switch with a buddy who has titan with a better matchup.
2) Only fight with powershots. Thankfully the ion is still going to have trouble against the gunshield. They have to aim for the foot or shoulder. This give you an opportunity to "trade up" in damage by landing a sniper power shot since they can't vortex shield while shouldshotting.
Just a really bad matchup though.
Against Ronin: Burn them down and power through the sword block. A really good matchup. Fight them while backtracking to throw off any intentional phase dashes. I always call out ronins because one teammate shooting them from a different angle for even a few seconds is a guaranteed free kill.
I have only fought a few good ronins. They are typically buddied with another titan so you really won't get the aforementioned free kill. If you are fighting a 2 v 2 against ronin make sure that you and your buddy focus down the non-ronin since otherwise they can win that fight by sword blocking and sword stunning. Letting the non-ronin shoot you while you output minimal damage against the ronin is a really bad plan.
Just don't let him get close. If he is close make sure your back is to a wall so you can spin up and only have to shoot in a 180 degree area. Ronin is one of the only titans I use close range mode on (outside of sneak attacks) anymore.
Against Northstar: Another great matchup. Gun shield and outsnipe him. When they fly you win. Up close? You win. Easy peasy.
Against Scorch: Legion's second toughest opponent. Really don't let them get close. Flame shield wrecks you. Instead, burn down the flame shield at a distance and force him to commit to tech spamming you. Use of dash is really critical here. You only want to use dash to escape, never to close distance between you and a scorch. If you get caught spinning up without a dash you are literally toast(ed).
Against Legion: This engagement is pretty tricky and it mostly comes down to timing.
In long range: You want to be the first person to land a sniper shot BUUUUT you want to be the last person to put up the gunshield. Its a bit lame but the legion that PUSHES the other legion is typically the legion that LOSES. A legion that is out of cover is a legion that can be punished for its lack of mobility. A legion that is out of cover is a legion that has to wait way too long for its gunshield to come back. Ideally you want to bait the other legion into not having gunshield in the middle of nowhere. You typically do that by sacrificing a little health by poking out and pretending to fight (maybe shooting a power shot) then immediately ducking back into cover without using your own gunshield. Then when that legion puts on his gunshield because he thought you were enganging...all you have to do is wait it out. Then YOU pop out of cover with your own gunshield on and get ALL THE FREE DAMAGE.
If they have buffed shield you don't want to try to burn through unless you have buffed shield yourself and only want to pump through minimal damage before having to reload. Instead, shoot at the spots around the gunshield.
If the other legion ISN't using buffed gunshield you should power through it with your powershot and follow up with a hail of crits.
General stuff: Legion is the most straightforward titan imo and definitely the most boring as a result. I love playing him because 1) I like winning 2) I like winning with fat titans 3) most people use him wrong. Legion practically has two different modes.
The first is early round lane coverage. Get to lane quickly. Spam gunshield. Take potshots with your sniper. Punish all scorches, northstars, non-particle buffed tones, other legions, etc. I use the "better safe than sorry" approach and always go around the corner with a gun shield primed and ready. Legion is one of the only titans able to sustain a 1 v X fight at long because of just how SAFE you can play him.
The second mode is sneaky titan. Once the mid game has started and damage has started to pile up, you can feel free to roam with a buddy or two and start jamming the X v 1s. The shotgun shot in CQC mode is really really good at melting titans so even if you catch an enemy unaware it is definitely worth it to hold your fire until you are right up on that sucker to deliver a boomshot right to the back crit spot.
So. As Scorch A good deal of your struggle will be to find close range engagements. I only founds success with him once I stopped trying to use him in the "zoning" style they seemed to be pushing with his kit. Yeah he is good at zoning and area denial, but you are going to get absolutely punished by titans with hitscans if you try primarily doing that.
Instead, I have found the most success revolving around the playstyle of getting fat scorch titan in close and landing full-0 kills with your extended flame shield. Scorch has quickly become my favorite titan to play because of how much he reminds my of my big punch ogre playstyle from TF1. Side note: You absolutely need dash with scorch.
General stuff: I need to mention this up front because unlike legion where you need to approach each engagement with a different mindset, scorch always one specific situation that you want to set up: You next to the enemy with a full flameshield. Everything else is in service to that goal.
Early game you want to be launching gas canisters over buildings and long range into chokepoints. Hit em with a firechop or shoot them with a thermite shot to deny early access to rushing routes or battery spawns. If you are lucky you will get someone.
You want to master the long range technique of popping out of a corner with a flame shield, shooting a gas canister with the flameshield still up (aim high), quickly lining up a shot with your thermite launcher, firing, cancelling the reload with fire shield, and returning to cover. This is pretty much the only hope you have long range against all titans except ronins (lol). Basically you use this to deal chip damage and make sur eyour opponents are as uncomfortable as possible while making sure that you have full health going into the late game where scorch really shines.
Scorch is exceptional at pushing with a teammate behind him. Flame shield does work at absorbing damage and the extended shield means that you and an (ion,legion,tone) buddy might be able to safely push a hallway against one or two titans. Flame shield is also a great combo vs northstar.
Your main gameplan is to sneak around and get free kills with your flame shield however. Just be smart and try to flank. When you see an enemy titan try to guage if they see you. If they do you might want to tech spam them. If they don't you should run up (don't dash) and flame shield them. When they try to dash away (and they will) follow them with your dash and continue to burn them. Scorch is especially good at locking down CQC 2 v 1s because your opponent's only safe option is to run away. You always watch to use your flame chop to seal away their escape route. If they are at a bar of health. finish them with your flame core just to secure the kill. Scorch gets his core quick enough.
Scorch is much less good on maps without much maneuverability or flanking routes. He is basically fat ronin.
Scorch is tone's best friend. His particle walls keep you safe. His recon grenades let you plan flanking routes. You can flame shield so he can push up. Aren't besties the best?
Against Legion: Your best matchup believe it or not. Pay close attention to teammates calling him out. He is always my top priority because he is just so easy for scorch to kill. He only has one dash. If you catch him by surprise you can usually win without taking a bar of health. Once he dashes you should follow up with a mirror dash since he can only have a maximum of one dash. If he does notice you be sure to close the gap and commit to running at him until you are in flame shield distance. Yeah you might take some damage, but once you get in close the fight is over. Better to sacrifice some Health early than not have enough flame shield to eat his health. Once the flameshield is over you should ALWAYS have your core. Use your core to get a quick kill.
Against Ronin: Second best matchup. Ronin has nothing on you. Your flame chop punishes agility and HE ONLY HAS THREE BARS OF HEALTH POOR THING. Keep up the pressure. Keep walking closer to him. His puny shotgun tickles. Tell yourself that. Then roast him alive with flameshield and watch the pathetic attempts to block the damage. However, if there are fatter, juicier titans closeby you should always prioritize those.
Against Tone/Ion: The ABCs of sales apply here. Always Be Closing. You aren't going to win long range, but these titans usually only have one dash so they end up in the same sorry predicament legion does. These titans always want overcore because their cores are so good. Greedy greedy titans. Greedy titans get punished by flame shield. What's that? Only one dash? Oh I'm so sorry for you. Would you like to contribute to my flame core? Mmmhmm... I bet you do. Ahem.
See a particle wall? walk forward. Steady stream of ion shots? walk forward. Of course you should tech spam if they notice you, but by and large this is the same plan that you use against legion, only they have a few more options to punish you. Tone can see you coming with his recon grenade and run away. Tone has the paricle wall to save him from tech spam. Both things lead to overconfidence however. Sacrificing a health bar to get in close is definitely worth it in the long run.
Northstar: Is actually a bit of a problem. Unlike ronin they won't ever commit to a closerange battle. They can fly over your core ability, your gas traps, and your fire chop. Always try to lead them and wait for a teammate...any other titan to deal wit them. The only time you should actively confront a northstar is if they are already really closeby.
Against Scorch: Comes down to player skill...I guess? If you can surprise them wit ha flame shield...go for it...but more often then not you are going to be trading damage and then it will be the person that hits the core button the fastest who wins. Instead, I like fighting the tech spam game against scorch. Using the flame shield reload cancel trick also seems to be really effective. Another method I've been experimenting with is to have a buddy force them to flameshield defensively. That leaves them open to your flameshield since they won't have the charge to actually counter attack.
I will edit with more titans later.
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 7, 2016 16:35:20 GMT -5
I was going to start a thread to solicit this kind of info, glad to see Post beat me to it Great stuff, need time and more experience to digest...
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Nov 7, 2016 20:46:43 GMT -5
What you need to do Witty... is not abandon Titans who are helping you, especially when they've stopped shooting at you and are one-shot and shooting a Salvo Core at YOUR FAVORITE NEIGHBORHOOD HORSE, WITTY!!!
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Nov 8, 2016 3:00:07 GMT -5
wittyscorpion Dude. Ion vs Legion, you must learn this... USE YOUR VORTEX SHIELD xboxdvr.com/gamer/Pegasus%20Actual/video/23241711xboxdvr.com/gamer/Pegasus%20Actual/video/23208870xboxdvr.com/gamer/Pegasus%20Actual/video/23181643xboxdvr.com/gamer/Pegasus%20Actual/video/23283190xboxdvr.com/gamer/Pegasus%20Actual/video/23181457Take whatever Legion will give you, and throw it back in his stupid fat face, or even someone else's face if it's more convenient. His gun takes time to spin up. If he is not shooting, then tickle him with your Splitter Rifle. If he is using his power shot, the end of his gun will start glowing and you definitely want your shield up to catch that. When you have energy for your shield, and you pay a modicum of attention, you are basically immortal against Legion. He's completely one dimensional. And it builds to your Laser Core really fast. Laser Core is great for finishing off a half health legion that you've been Vortex Shielding. Ideally you use Laser Core when he's reloading. Otherwise he can still put out a decent amount of damage before you finish him, and you might be better off doing more Vortex Shield and using Laser Core on the next titan. General gameplay of how I use Ion in LTS: Laser Shot is kind of your main offensive tool when you're not getting shot at, it does good burst damage especially if you can land crits, and it's great for zapping pilots. Keeping the pilot population down against good players is incredibly important. Keep in mind Laser Shot steals from the same energy meter as your Vortex Shield. Her main weapon, the Splitter Rifle isn't that amazing. And using it actually slows down your recharge, and the ADS/alt-fire mode drains the energy meter. I am probably a little too aggressive with my Laser Shots, and pushing with low energy. You don't want to push with low energy Witty. Jeb Bush pushed for the nomination with very low energy. And he ate a Trump Core in his big fat pig face. Sad! Don't be a Jeb Bush, believe me. If you sneak up on a titan, you can pop off two Laser Shots and bail to recharge, or you can pop off one, start laying down Splitter Rifle fire and react from there. Keep in mind the Vortex Shield absorbs energy weapons but doesn't return them to sender, and that includes the Splitter Rifle. So in Ion vs Ion Vortex only prevents damage, it doesn't dish it. So there's a lot of firing Splitter and stopping when the Vortex comes up, then starting back up... but the important thing is to try to land Laser Shots (preferably crits of course) when they aren't Vortex Shielding, and to block Laser Shots if you can. Which means paying attention to the little animation of the laser popping out. A similar kind of thing happens against Tone. The Tracking Rockets pop out of the shoulder and can be caught to at least prevent a decent chunk of damage, and if you have great aim, return some (they are slow, so it's hard to do, they are good for burning down Tone's Particle Wall though). I struggle a lot fighting a decent Tone in my Ion though, so maybe that's a subject for another day.
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malgato
True Bro
Farm ammo, then everyone wipe.
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Post by malgato on Nov 8, 2016 13:30:14 GMT -5
Pegasus Actual Now make an instructional video for me on your Tone playstyle.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Nov 8, 2016 14:41:23 GMT -5
Place particle wall, shoot x3, shoot rockets, shoot x3, shoot rockets, shoot x3, shoot rockets, salvo core, repeat. Avoid close range. Win. That's my super simplified Tone guide.
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wittyscorpion
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All warfare is based on deception.
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 8, 2016 14:57:16 GMT -5
What you need to do Witty... is not abandon Titans who are helping you, especially when they've stopped shooting at you and are one-shot and shooting a Salvo Core at YOUR FAVORITE NEIGHBORHOOD HORSE, WITTY!!! Well, I am still in the phase of "I don't know what the hell I am doing, just smashing buttons" phase . All I managed to learn how to do in the few hours I played with you guys is to 1) take cheap laser shots at otherwise occupied enemy titans, 2) run away. In a nutshell, my main contribution to the team is to make the games not too easy for you guys It took me a crap load of ass beating by the bosses in the campaign to just finally realize some embarrassingly obvious facts: 1) running away with back turned towards the opponent is way way less effective than facing the opponents with vortex shield up while retreating (or sometimes, advancing) into cover... 2) vortex shield has a reticle and it can turn red, what?! Oh, that's how you return the crap back to sender... 3) did not know that the way to use "alt mode" of splitter rifle is simply to just ADS. No wonder my shots just seem to be brushed off by the enemy titans... 4) what? Laser can ADS too, so I can get a better look at the crit spots? Wait, same goes for Laser core as well? 5) Oh, I don't really need to wait for laser to fire by itself when the timer is up (think railgun), I can just release my finger to fire whenever I have my shot aligned... 6) to this day I am still not sure which button is for ejection, and which button is for smoke... The list goes on and on... Plus I have no idea what other titans' strengths and weaknesses are and often wonder why my shields and healths just vanish in an instant... Plus I play all the maps the same way (yes, you guessed it, take cheap laser shots + run away combo ), no idea how each map is suppose to work... Not to mention with mic problems most of the time I can't hear my teammates (yes, I can only hear you bad mouthing me, can't hear you asking for assistance or providing guidance), and to make things worse, if I don't mute myself I introduce echo to teammates just to make their fights unnecessarily more "exciting"... Basically, "same old" of what you get by picking up witty...
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Nov 9, 2016 5:00:00 GMT -5
Laser has ADS? LOL, I didn't know either. How does that work? hit laser button, then ADS button? Or just ADS with splitter and then fire laser button?
And Core?
What is with this red reticle on vortex? Could you explain that further?
My ion is like lvl 8 or so...
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Dumien
True Bro
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Post by Dumien on Nov 9, 2016 11:06:02 GMT -5
Glad to hear you are getting a new mic wittyscorpion We really do miss you and your uplifting attitude. Edit: Go Read Pegasus' guide on page 2. It's better/stronger/faster/hasvideos/knowswhathe'stalkingabout So I guess I'll talk about Northstar now? Ronin will be my topic after that since Pegasus Actual covered Ion very well and I expect him to mete out tone guidance in equal measure.
General stuff: Northstar currently sucks. Its only good matchup is scorch and only because he can't completely punish the ultra punishable vtol mode/flight core. If you get caught in close range against any titan you basically insta-lose.
At long range you are going to get outdamaged by tones, legions, and ions who have defensive abilities paired with potent long range options. Northstar loses straight 1 v 1s because it has less health that all three.
Thus, I will be presenting Northstar as one of two support-centric titans.
Northstar is at its best in a 2 v X situation (very similar to ronin...but I digress). Think about it this way... I can see people actually complaining about Northstar's OPness if it had particle wall or gunshield as a part of its kit. The best northstars I have seen are never out of cover unless they are very close to a teammate. Tether and cluster missile function better as support options rather than defensive or offensive options. Vtol is potent on some maps to get a quick cross-map free damage plink, but it ends up being poor in all other situations.
Flightcore is absolutely the worst and it deserves its own paragraph to get accross just how bad it is. It's bad. Really bad. It paints a big "shoot me" sign on you and it deals out damage slow enough that a legion can turn, spin up, and outdamage you. All the while, you just float there...helpless... wishing that you hadn't activate the core...that you had picked a better titan. The issue I have is that there was supposed to be the obvious combo of tether/cluster/flight core. In practice this ends up being not-so-good though. Tethers don't come out fast enough to use it as a defensive option. You have to 1) rely on your opponent's ineptitude to fall into the trap. 2) rely on your opponent's ineptitude to not immediately shoot said trap 3) rely on your flight core to outdamage to higher DPS titans. Yeah...sorry. It isn't going to work.
OH BUT THE RAGE ISN'T OVER. As of now, flight core needs serious reworking. I saw a reddit comment that I really liked concerning this: Make legion have something similar to flightcore but with unlimited ammo, faster powershot cooldown, and no autoaim. Give northstar wallhacks,auto aim, and minor environment piercing damage. I don't know about legion flying, but I can definitely get behind northstar having a long range/designated sniper core option. Hell...maybe even give it a shield while you are at it. You want a sniper titan...make its core MAKE SENSE AT LEAST.
Ahem. Rage over.
Instead of talking matchups... I'll talk about Northstar's best co-op buddies since I am presupposing that you are going to get wrecked 1 v 1 against any half decent player. Legion slaps on a gun shield and chunks you for a full bar with its sniper. Tone hides and plinks you down with rockets. Ion hits you with a shoulder shot that does a little over half the damage your full charged shot does. Ronin just evades your non-hitscan weapon. Scorch can just avoid you and probably won't be playing on the big maps where you shine. Northstars mirrors just a dumb critfest. There... covered the matchups.
Bestbuddy Tone: Oh. This wall is nice. Can we share? Yes. Yes we can. You outdamage good buddy tone and you help him win vs other tones since piercing shot rips apart their particle wall. Tone has a tough time dealing with enemies around corners that they haven't plinked twice so your cluster missile will force engagements or retreats. Simply communicate particle walls and pushes. Let them know when your cluster is doing work or you are about to pop a particle wall.
Bestbuddy Ion: A less good buddy simply because its really hard to coordinate with vortex shields. You can bunkerbust for ion in the same way that you do for legion, but you have to be aware of when your ion is using their energy for dps rather than defense. Ion ends up being a better northstar except for the fact they don't have the pressuring tool of cluster missile. Legion is already a great matchup for Ion so the redundancy of cluster missile ALSO being really good against legion is a bummer. At best you are going to be forcing a legion to never ever spin up since they can't stay in one place due to threat of cluster missle. If they do sit still they are going to lose to vortex shield.
To be truly great, northstar needs to improve the matchup against tone (one of northstar's tought matchups)...and I think it actually does. Cluster on particle wall is a classic move from TF1 and I think the same applies here. You can bunkerbust tone in more than one way, providing your ion with much better pressuring options.
Bestbuddy Legion: I think this is a pretty good combo. Again we have to search for whether or not Northstar improves its worst matchup: Ion. The big answer is "kinda." Northstar punishes any sort of waiting game. All they have to do is wait out the energy from vortex shield and strike with a powerful crit. All legion has to do is have some self control. Legion can actually take the time to get in close in the case of a 2 v 1. In the same of a 2 v 2 the legion can focus on the other titan while you check the ion.
Against other enemies you can hide behind the gunshield at long ranges and capitalize on Legion's superior bunker busting abilities with a coordinate crit shot. Legion protects you from ronin and you protect legion from ion and scorch. Seems like a win win.
Bestbuddy Scorch: Honestly not-so-great lategame, but you can totally get some free shots through the flameshield. If you have a friend using extendo-flame shield you can probably get two full charge shots off before the shield is done. Again....takes major coordination, but I think it is effective. Lategame I don't really see any synergy since scorch is always trying to close the distance and you are always trying to widen it.
Bestbuddy Ronin: I will talk more about this in my next topic, but Ronin is definitely the best defensive support titan. He isn't an offensive superstar but he is a closer and possibly one of the stronger titans in the late game. He has the smae shield synergy as scorch, but he will actually take damage and has less of a healthpool to sacrifice to early plays like that. Ronin is meant to survive and thrive. Your support doesn't really assist in any of that. The only synergy I can think of is your ability to drop tethers at your flanks so your AWESOME ronin DEFENSIVE BEAST can take full advantage of a stationary target in the mid/late game.
Bestbuddy Northstar SQUAD: We had some fun with a full northstar squad. You can form nice "killboxes" on some of the bigger maps and if you pick your targets you can take down even legions before they can run away/hide. Many cluster missiles also seems to be pretty awesome. Bestbuddy northstar SQUAD can be beat by prepared legions or tones/ions that know how to focusfire a single target and move on to the next one.
A fun option, but not good vs good players.
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qupie
True Bro
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Post by qupie on Nov 9, 2016 11:34:16 GMT -5
since piercing shot rips apart their particle wall Does it pierce the wall? Or do more damage to it? You are talking about the first Northstar kit right? It is what I used when I used her (not very often) to be able to stand behind and shoot through friendly titans. I agree she needs a buff. Make the Core hitscan and double the damage. Then see if we need more.
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 9, 2016 12:39:42 GMT -5
Laser has ADS? LOL, I didn't know either. How does that work? hit laser button, then ADS button? Or just ADS with splitter and then fire laser button? And Core? What is with this red reticle on vortex? Could you explain that further? My ion is like lvl 8 or so... ADS just gives you a bigger FOV, handy when you are trying to laser a crit spot and want to have a better look at it. I see the vortex reticle turn red sometimes, I assume it means you are guaranteed (or have much better odds) with a return hit, but that's just a guess.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Nov 9, 2016 16:24:18 GMT -5
Glad to hear you are getting a new mic wittyscorpion We really do miss you and your uplifting attitude. So I guess I'll talk about Northstar now? Ronin will be my topic after that since Pegasus Actual covered Ion very well and I expect him to mete out tone guidance in equal measure. Awwww man.....
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Post by trizzydizzy on Nov 9, 2016 20:14:51 GMT -5
Try Flightcore with Viper Thrusters (movespeed boost). I find the only way I can get Flightcore to land shots is if I'm directly over them. Makes it harder for them to aim too. You can only do this with the Viper Thrusters.
Don't get me wrong, it's still garbage. It's just not a complete waste. Regardless, I love Northstar the most.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Nov 10, 2016 7:20:51 GMT -5
All right fine malgato Dumien let's talk Tone. The first thing to knowing and loving Tone, is to master her control panel: Well with that bit of levity aka copy and pasting of some GIF I saw on Reddit out of the way... Place particle wall, shoot x3, shoot rockets, shoot x3, shoot rockets, shoot x3, shoot rockets, salvo core, repeat. Avoid close range. Win. That's my super simplified Tone guide. Well. You're not particularly wrong. If Tone's not the best Titan, and it's close but I'm still leaning towards Ion for that honor, she's definitely the easiest to use. And the most immediately familiar to any Titanfall veteran... I mean you'd have to be some kind of real idiot to have played the original and not immediately be drawn to the Titan with a 40mm cannon and Particle Wall. I mean c'mon man! Anyway here's a couple of rounds in the life of Tone once again playing the solo queue random game, because getting long clips out of a PS4 is a lot easier than it is on Xbox One (though the complete opposite for short clips, but I digress). First thing's first. Since this is about LTS, Tone is one of the better battery getters. There are safe batteries on some maps, and granted a Ronin or Northstar can get there first, and letting a Ronin snag a battery is not the worst thing that can happen. But batteries are good gets for Tone. Tone has probably the best and most versatile core ability, so building that up is a plus for the team. I like to play Tone very aggressively, since she is a top tier DPS monster while still retaining good mobility combined with the best pure defensive ability in the game. Not to mention the best (well only, but still very good) intel gathering ability (maybe you could call Northstar hover-peeking an intel gathering ability if you want to stretch it?), so having that extra health helps quite a bit as well. But aside from snagging safe batteries, Tone really excels at the not-so-safe batteries. Sonar Lock gives you that wallhack ability to let you know if anyone is in the area. If you intelligently use it when pushing up on a mid-map battery you can guarantee that you're not about to be ambushed. This is incredibly useful on maps like Exoplanet and the bad spawn on Boomtown. On top of just being aggressive, I'm actually kind of trying to engineer 1vX engagements. If the opponents aren't good you have the tools to just outright win that fight. If they are good you can still trade damage at a reasonable rate and give a mismatch and/or flanking opportunity to the rest of your team. That Sonar Lock helps you to find multiple Titans and keep them ineffective. You can get multiple Titans to focus on you, and use your intel advantage to really only give an actual angle to one at a time if you position yourself intelligently. The Particle Wall always gives you the option to just pop out with a good field of view to chip at targets of opportunity. Let's talk Tracker Rockets a bit. Sure if you can get a good rhythm of 3x 40mm shots that connect followed by the rockets, it's very good damage output. But that's a little predictable against decent players. I would say a lot of times so long as you have a 40mm shot, you might consider continuing to 40mm even if you have a lock. If you have a second target to build a lock on, you should seriously consider holding until you have them both locked. You get a lot more damage efficiency that way. With other Titans other than Tone ideally I'd try to focus on taking one Titan down before moving on to the next. With Tone I really believe in getting as much damage out there regardless of whether you finish a Titan or not. Keep in mind that dishing the damage as fast as possible will get you your core quickly. And your core can very easily finish off one of the titans you've chipped away at. Of course tactically using Sonar Lock to achieve a third lock instead of using it purely for intel is often a solid play if your 40mm is empty or they've gotten behind some sort of cover that you feel you can curve your shots around. In general shooting your rockets at weird angles and as you enter cover or as your opponent leaves cover (Sonar Lock again helps you here) is the best way to do it. If you're launching your Tracker Rockets why leave yourself exposed to fire when you can just curve them around a wall? Tracker Rockets aren't great against Ion. I wouldn't recommend shooting them unless her back is turned, or you feel the Vortex Shield is sufficiently depleted. It's kind of a psychology/timing thing, at some point they're going to give up on you firing your rockets and that's precisely when you need to do it. Tracker Rockets that get returned will burn your Particle Wall down very effectively. It's much harder for Ion to actually hit you with the rockets though, so you might consider putting your rockets out before you plop down your next Particle Wall in that particular matchup. Speaking of which, the same thing holds true in Tone vs Tone. If you can get a lock, and you can get your Particle Wall down without being locked, you win because you'll either burn right through their wall if it's up, or get that nice burst of damage. If you're on the wrong side of that one then run away and reset the engagement. For anyone else, no reason not to launch. Tracker Rockets are the death of a poor flying Northstar, Scorch can melt them of course but it's not like they're coming back, so by all means make them expend the effort. And no reason to not shoot them at Legion either for that matter. Legion matchup is pretty simple by the way. Just make sure you always have real cover to retreat behind. Legion will melt you if you get caught out in the open. Otherwise Particle Wall vs Gun Shield works entirely in your favor since they rebalanced Legion, so you can chip away. Just don't fight when your wall isn't up and GG. Salvo Core works great on Legion, while Smart Core is useless against you if you disengage. You're significantly faster than Legion, so if you don't mess up your positioning you're golden. Salvo Core... like I said... it's pretty great. So, it shoots a million rockets, and they follow your aim, like a TOW missile. So the simple and effective strategy is to send them up in the air, and rain them back down on your enemy. They are incredibly agile. That way they don't see exactly when they're coming, or if they're even coming for them so they won't be able to use defensive abilities or dash in response effectively. This technique also allows you to shoot your core completely out of sight, and dash out to guide it to your target. Or to just time it for when you anticipate your target coming to you. Or if they are mindbulletsing you with their Titan somewhat you can land a full Salvo Core on them in this way. Sonar Lock as usual can provide invaluable intel. Here's how it works if you realize (already posted in the clip thread) that a flag carrier happens to have hopped on a Titan in CTF: xboxdvr.com/gamer/Pegasus%20Actual/video/23072525There are exceptions to the shoot straight up rule though. If a Titan has no clue you're there, you're behind them or whatever, shooting the Salvo Core straight at them might expedite the process. Also, the situation where you're in doomed health and they're coming to finish you off, just shoot it right at them and eject. It seems like it's kind of like the original Titanfall in that you can kind of keep shooting as you are in the eject animation. Example: xboxdvr.com/gamer/Pegasus%20Actual/video/23283010#t=14Another obvious but effective technique is to use your Salvo Core in concert with your Particle Wall. It'll protect you while guiding your missiles. This is part of what makes it better than say Ion's Laser Core. You can protect yourself while using it. A lot of times a low health Ion can be killed before her Laser Core does the job. Sad! Tone can protect herself just fine though while using her core so by all means do so. Salvo Core appears to be highly effective against Vortex Shield, it drains it very quickly and leaves Ion open to eating many missiles even if she sends some back. Particle Wall on the other hand will stop your Salvo Core cold, so always try to curve over/around one of them. Scorch's shield seems to melt Salvo Core down pretty good so definitely try to hit him at an odd angle. Sword Block is pretty good all around and it seems like he can eat a Salvo Core with it without taking huge damage so definitely try to blindside him. A good Ronin is a total asshole and you don't want to fight him 1v1 in close quarters. Tone is also the second best Gooser behind Ion, as the 40mm seems more forgiving in this game in landing direct hits on pilots. She's also probably the very best overall pilot killer as the Sonar Lock works on revealing pilots in addition to Titans. And that's pretty much it, Tone is easy to use but perhaps a little harder to master than it may first appear. If you're trying to carry scrubs in a game of LTS then Tone should probably be your first choice as it is the best Titan for taking pressure off of your teammates.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 10, 2016 11:19:14 GMT -5
I remember Megas XRL! That is where your GIF is from buddy.
One thing I figured I would briefly mention since you talked about it with salvo core vs. vortex shield/particle wall.
It seems that different weapons have different damage values against the different types of shields/walls. This was never more noticeable than when they "nerfed legion." They didn't state HOW they nerfed him, but I noticed that his bullets werent burning down shields nearly as fast as they used to. For example, laser core melts a particle wall much faster than it should when you compare its damage to a full extended mag of legion rounds.In addition, salvo care gets stopped hard by scorch shield/particle wall, but it completely dominates vortex shield. Vortex shield itself can take many many shots from almost everything else...it is just weak against salvo core.
Interesting stuff I think...and also a neat way that they can balance for different matchups. Ronin post coming up soon...
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malgato
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Post by malgato on Nov 10, 2016 12:51:37 GMT -5
Thanks Pegasus Actual. The game footage definitely helps. Understanding how to play Tone in a more mobile and aggressive style will definitely help.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 10, 2016 12:59:21 GMT -5
RONIN TIME
So. First off. I'm not good with ronin. However! I know someone who is literally the best ronin player that I have come across in the entirety of my playtime in TF2: GADZUKI. Most people get the playstyle wrong and use him aggressively to pressure early and fast. He has two dashes and a shotgun. He has to be a rusher. Right?
WRONG
As I mentioned in my Northstar schpeel... Ronin is the BEST SUPPORT TITAN. Early, he is meant to be played defensively and compliment a buddy. Late game he turns into an overpower kill machine with sword core and excessive titan terminations. I am absolutely convinced that every team needs a ronin on almost all the maps.
While this is almost all secondhand knowledge and knowledge gleaned from watching him, I think it might be useful for anyone trying to learn about playing ronin properly.
General Stuff: First off, you want to be using overcore and the double sword wave ability. Doubling his primary support mechanism is key to getting your core faster AND serving up kills to your team. The sword block is good for 2 v X fights, but it isn't good at all for 1 v X fights. Ronin can function as an early scouter, but if you get caught against a legion in the open you are going to get wrecked sword block or no. Instead, you should use sword block as a "peeking" tool or an aggro lure. The blink is very good for escaping or forcing attention splits. I'll go into detain for each ability but keep in mind that much of what ronin does is reactive. You are watching for enemy reloads. You are watching for where your enemy is looking. You are looking for where your enemy is heading. You are paying attention to whether or not your buddy wants "to go in"
Arc blade is the tool you use to set up kills. It stuns enemies so your fatter friends can land their most powerful moves and get guaranteed crits. It is incredibly safe since you can mitigate the "charge up" of the move by holding down the button, peeking around a wall, and then releasing the trigger. Visually your titan's hand will come up like a ninja ready to strike followed by the lighting strike upon button release. You can use this move with your two dashes to get some relatively safe poke damage. Much line ion, your primary weapon sucks and your secondary attack is how you will be dealing much of your non-melee damage.
Sword block is how you dominate 2 v X battles. You punish enemies for picking on your squishy chassis by mitigating most of the damage while your buddy picks the enemy/enemies off. If they turn away from you that is your cue to wail at them with your melee/arc blade. If they focus on you, try to move opposite of your buddy so that they can't have both you and your buddy on their screen at the same time. This forces the opponent to pick a target. Either choice is wrong.
Phase shift is a bit tricky to use properly. It is definitely the easiest way to kill yourself since phase shifting into any enemy titan will instantly blow you up. Gadzuki uses this move to set up a pretty sick combo in lanes against single targets at close range. First, he lines up the "shot" by blocking in front of the enemy. Then he phase shifts straight at the enemy. While in phase shift he drops an electric smoke where the enemy titan was/will be. Finally he exits phase shift and spins 180 degrees in order to face the titan he just slipped by. The effect of this technique is the enemy titan stuck inside an electric smoke (since it drops in the "real world" even if you drop it in the "phase shift world") stuck between you and your buddy. From this position, you are free to wail away at the enemy titan with arc blade hits to further incapacitate them and wait for your buddy to close the trap OR pour on the melee damage. The beauty of this move is that it 1) can full-0 an enemy titan really fast 2) gets you your swordcore very fast and 3) works against everyone but other ronins 4) is actually pretty safe since your own smoke doesn't damage you. The only downside is that you have to be careful that you don't kill yourself by phasing into the enemy titan. This little combo wombo takes practice.
Sword core is awesome. It isn't the best core by any means but it certainly does damage. The perfect time to pop it is when an enemy gives up on shooting you because of sword block and turns to your buddy. It has some insanely high DPS and you shouldn't make the same mistake that I do and forget to use the buffed arc blades! Spam spam spam. You go from the support to the DPS. You can go full kamikaze mode, but you should definitely save some health for where Ronin REALLY shines:
End game Terminations.
This has basically become a running joke. Gadzuki almost never gets the most damage, but he almost always gets the most kills and usually gets the final kill cam with a ronin termination. It was cool the first few night Gadzuki. Its getting pretty lame now! All jokes aside, this is something ronin is really good for. Ronin goes in for really safe terminations, meaning that your buddies never have to finish on that final bar of health. They can simply move on to the next target. This is absolutely invaluable in 2 v X fights where X is more than 1. With Gadzuki on my team I always leave that doomed titan alone as soon as I doom him. Gadzuki will swoop in with that extended melee range term and get a whole bunch of invulnerability time (you are invulnerable to damage during terminations... a nice change from TF1). That mean a smart enemy titan won't be focusing on the ronin terming. After the termination is done you have some escape/attack options. As the non-ronin I always let Gadzuki know where the enemy titan is relative to him so he is ready to attack/evade.
Ronin is very good at hunting down titans that are very weak. He has one of two slow down abilities AND he has the most dashes. Any titan backpeddling while firing to escape will get wrecked by a mixture of phase dash and sword block. And titan turning tail and running will get wrecked by superior movement and arc blade.
That should help you with your general gameplan. You aren't running out in the open early. You wait, conserve health, and help teammates confirm kills. You communicate and you receive communication. When lategame happens you eliminate enemy titans one by one. All we have left to discuss is how Ronin helps each individual titan.
Bestbuddy Legion: Legion has terrific damage output and greatly benefits from being able to land crits. He has trouble against Ion and boy oh boy do you punish Ion. Ion can't reflect arc blade...and he certainly can't reflect MELEES TO THE FACE. Legion melts targets that aren't focusing on him faster than any other titan (minus scorch) so using the sword block technique to split aggro is very very powerful here. In long range engagements you can use some of your healthpool to guard for legion when his gunshield goes down. This is one of the most versatile titan combinations imo.
Bestbuddy Ion:Ion's burst damage isn't tremendous (outside of laser core) so you can't really achieve the same buddy potential as scorch/legion/tone, but ronin lets you press enemies without always needing to rely on vortex shield to advance. However, when Ion gets laser core you can definitely make sure that the full laser core hits an enemy by locking them in place with arc blade.
Bestbuddy Tone: Fairly good burst potential with 40mm crit shots and rockets. Tone's particle wall lets you play even safer than you normally do and you don't get to risk damage scouting because tone's recond grenade has you covered. You can lock them in place for the core but meh...salvo core was always going to hit anyways.
Bestbuddy Scorch: Scorch and Ronin OTP. Ronin scout for scorch. Tell scorch when path is safe. Flame shield is powerful. Scorch is slow and fat. Ronin is fast and lock enemy in place. Scorch STRONG when ronin help scorch. Scorch thankful for full core thanks to ronin help. Ronin stun multiple enemy for scorch core? YES SCORCH VERY STRONG. Scorch like tiny ronin. Care for him.
Bestbuddy Northstar: NOPE
Bestbuddy Ronin SQUAD: Alot of fun but loses to campers. RUSH RUSH RUSH.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Nov 10, 2016 14:31:07 GMT -5
Not necessarily LTS-related, but something I've noticed playing as/against Ronin quite a bit in bounty hunt (a great game mode for Ronin, IMO). If you see a Ronin phase shift against you, try to back straight up, preferably into something solid. The Ronin player is almost always trying to shift behind you in my experience, so if you're lucky with prediction, they'll shift out and blow themselves up because you'll be standing right on top of them. Barring that, attempt to dash forward towards where Ronin entered the phase shift as the Ronin player probably won't expect that. Standing still and trying to turn 180 to face Ronin as he comes out of phase shift is a losing move (unless you're Scorch, maybe), as you're going to be eating a ton of melee damage very quickly. Ronin may or may not kamikaze himself doing that, but you're getting wrecked 100% of the time. Dashing forward at least gives you a chance to keep some separation and put yourself in a better situation. You're probably still in big trouble since Ronin is so close, but that's better than a sure death.
Also not necessarily LTS-related, but don't use Northstar. Like, ever. Take her to level 4 for level-up purposes if you must, but avoid her after that until she gets buffed.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Nov 10, 2016 14:41:41 GMT -5
Early, he is meant to be played defensively and compliment a buddy. Indeed, it's extremely important to tell Tone that she's very pretty at the start of each and every round. On a totally unrelated note, this clip is a bit of a complement to the the silly Northstar GIF I posted earlier: Flight Core Y U so sad?
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Will
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Post by Will on Nov 10, 2016 21:23:27 GMT -5
Phase shifting into a Reaper kills Ronin. They need to change that, when there are 100 Reapers towards the end of an Attrition match. I don't disagree with their method of having phase shifting into an enemy titan killing Ronin, because if they did it like pilot phase shift (kills the enemy), Ronin would be OP. But Reapers? COME ON, MANNNNN.
edit: oops wrong thread this is LTS meta
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 10, 2016 22:40:22 GMT -5
Phase shifting into a Reaper kills Ronin. They need to change that, when there are 100 Reapers towards the end of an Attrition match. I don't disagree with their method of having phase shifting into an enemy titan killing Ronin, because if they did it like pilot phase shift (kills the enemy), Ronin would be OP. But Reapers? COME ON, MANNNNN. edit: oops wrong thread this is LTS meta Don't worry about it. Titan matchups (which this thread turned out to be) are applicable to all the good gamemodes.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Nov 11, 2016 4:04:16 GMT -5
since your own smoke doesn't damage you... TIL Dumien Are you saying arc wave does more damage when your sword core is up? Hmm, I didn't know that... Also, do you never use the Leadwall? It is not what I read on ronin guides. The burst damage is pretty high, the reload sucks, but why not empty one mag at least? Can you get more DPS from melee? The golden combo (IF you get into a 1v1, I agree that ronin is more of a 2v2 titan though) I like to use is: Empty shotgun, arc wave, start reload, phase dash, arc wave, empty leadwall. That is a hell lot of damage in about 10 seconds. And you will be close to getting a fresh arcblade in the time you finished. Any idea how much damage reduction sword block gives? Does it matter what attacked you? (aka, can you block everything?)
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Post by lazy on Nov 11, 2016 6:24:47 GMT -5
What is everyone's preferred titan load outs. I haven't tried many, except for light weight alloys I missed the extra ammo, faster phase shift recharge but it didn't seem to recharge it fast enough for me, and Tones extra sonar ping seems to come in handy. I like the extra heat shield for scorch but I'm going to try the reduced damage to yourself, as I literally wrecked myself while I was wrecking someone else.
Also extra dash or extra core any preferences.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Nov 11, 2016 6:37:40 GMT -5
Extra dash on everything, but I might have to try something else one day. Tone and the stryders don't need it THAT much I guess.
Ronin: Extra wave hands down Tone: All are pretty decent to be honest Scorch: Longer flame shield Northstar: faster flight core or better cluster missles. Being able to shoot through teammates in last titan standing is also quite usefull. Legion: I never use him, to boring. But I guess ex mag is good, as is longer core. Ion: I am not really sure, they all seem quite lackluster. Vortex has problems returning fire in the first place, half of the stuff fired at it isn't even cought, and the travel speed of return fire is quite slow. 20% extra damage sounds awfull. Longer core is not really needed, but still one of the best choices. Trip mines are not really good imho, and you can simply learn to only use them out of battle, Ion is a peaker anyways. So it is either the first, or the last choice. I wish there was something that made the vortex last longer, or the primary stronger.
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Post by lazy on Nov 11, 2016 9:02:44 GMT -5
I must admit none of Ion's sound that useful except the first one which replenishes power but I thought someone might have found a good use for them.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 14, 2016 13:09:57 GMT -5
First let's get the Titan Kit out of the way: I think instant titanfall beats doom shield any day for any non-newbie players. Do you guys agree? On generic kit: basically a binary choice of extra dash vs. faster core. Outside LTS, extra dash is probably the better choice because it can be used all the time, while faster core only works towards the first core acquisition. In LTS however, it is probably down to each individual Titan and play style: 1) Scorch: extra dash must have. A fat Titan with most of the offensive abilities close quarter based, mobility buff is vital; 2) Ronin: faster core is probably more preferable. It already has great mobility, and its core ability is awesome; 3) Ion / Tone: I can see that both better mobility or faster core are great choices; 4) Northstar: oh boy, great mobility with terrible core. Pick you poison I guess; 5) Legion: extra dash is probably more preferable; Now onto the Titan specific kit: IMHO the singular choices: 1) Ronin -> extra arc wave, excellent for both offense and defense, and better support for teammates; 2) Scorch -> longer flame shield: great for defense and OMG kind of incredible for offense; IMHO the binary choices: 3) Northstar -> piercing shot or better cluster missile. In LTS maybe piercing shot is more useful because the Titans are often bunched together when pushing through a lane. That said, CM is awesome and enhanced one is even better; 4) Ion -> Entangled Energy or Vortex Amplifier. Dumien and Pegasus Actual swear by Vortex Amplifier, but I am not very good at throwing bullets back to enemies. Entangled Energy at least make the terrible primary weapon shots useful by earning energy through hits, so basically it indirectly offers faster laser cool down for offense and faster vortex cool down for defense. I have not played much of Tone and Legion. Seem to me that they have the best variety of kit choices. Each have at least 3 solid options to choose from. I suspect that the choices can even get down to in game match up when facing decent teams. I'll let Tone expert Pegasus Actual and Legion expert Dumien give detailed breakdown of their thought process on what to choose.
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Post by trizzydizzy on Nov 14, 2016 15:17:52 GMT -5
I can only speak to Northstar (Gen7), but I almost always take extra dash and Viper Thrusters. You're probably thinking I'm a scrub for wasting a perk on Flightcore, but hear me out first.
Piercing shot is great on certain long hallway levels (dockyards), but since it doesn't pierce through teammates, you're often blocked still. Very rarely does Cluster ever do more than a few ticks of damage, as everyone easily moves out of it. Making it bigger helps some with that, but that's another tick or two at most. It's really just area denial and it doesn't matter if it's a big or small explosion, no one is walking that way regardless.
Flightcore is absolute garbage in its default form. You're slow, easy to hit, and do shit for damage. If you add Viper Thrusters, you're now faster, harder to hit if you stay over the target, and can now land your hits if you stay above your target. When Flightcore is fast, you can use it for extra mobility too. If I need to catch a flank or get downrange wuicky, I'll use it to get around the map while my three boosts recharge.
I also don't think warpfall is a no-brainer. Done shield has so much utility compared to a lucky Titan drop. The shield can light up all the grunt spawns in Bounty. You can also preoccupy a Titan for its entirety while they wait for it to come out. Of course, it's also helpful for those times where you get gibbed right after you call it in.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 14, 2016 15:54:39 GMT -5
Sure, doom shield is a solid and safe choice. You can not go wrong with it. Players new to TF should definitely use that option.
That said: the great thing about warpfall is that you can use it as an offensive weapon, have your titan land on some enemies for free kill (pretty easy on a group of just spawned AIs, especially when you are distracting them, or be bold and try to crash a Titan that is busy fighting). More importantly, when I decide to call my Titan while alive instead of just respawning in it upon death, I am usually either on a roll of multi-kills, or when I see that our team is in dire need of titan reinforcement on the battle field, so the last thing I want to do is to wait for several seconds, during which the tide of the battle could have significantly changed.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 14, 2016 22:18:08 GMT -5
since your own smoke doesn't damage you... TIL Dumien Are you saying arc wave does more damage when your sword core is up? Hmm, I didn't know that... Yes. It multiplies arc wave by 1.5 It multiplies sword damage by 2.0 (normal titan punch is 500. Ronin sword is 800). It doubles your sword block damage mitigation. It super buffs your dash cooldown (we didn't test by how much...but you will generally get a dash per second). Pegasus and I did alot of testing. As for wittyscorpion 's questions... Legion isn't in the best of places right now. Tone and ion have some really fantastic options against him. That said, I really like extended mags for fighting a defensive-long range sort of game. Better gunshield is also good,but you shouldn't expect it to improve any matchup except legion vs legion. The other two options are not good. Ion with better vortex is what you should be using if you are going up against legions. Ion with entangled energy is probably best all around since you get to use more of everything. Dome shield is great in everything except maybe bounty hunt since you can warpfall in a titan directly on the npc titan spawn for an easy bounty claim.
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Will
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Post by Will on Nov 14, 2016 22:53:13 GMT -5
witty I was also all aboard the warpfall train, until it dawned on me how tight the lanes are on these maps. I'm now all about the dome shield again, because I can effectively use my titan to block off lanes for a length period of time. Enemy titans also tend to just stand beside your bubble and wait for it to go away, so I use this time to shoot some anti-titan weapons from my pilot, knocking him down to half health before I even get into my titan. The warpfall crush kills were just too few and far between, even with baiting/luring tactics. It gives them an audio cue when you call it in (pro tip: if the announcer says "enemy titanfall incoming", move)
As for the generic kit, I am still in love with nuclear ejection. Though the blast radius seems to be nerfed from the first game, I'm finding it more effective in the sequel for a few reasons. Firstly, the tighter laned maps make it much easier to trap enemy titans near you, they are much less likely to be able to get away. This is doubled in effectiveness when playing Attrition thanks to the overpowered reapers that clip against titans. I'm probably averaging 1 titan kill per nuclear eject, for every one that I miss, I'll get a double or triple. And a pilot kill or two as well.
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