markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Feb 24, 2017 10:11:14 GMT -5
I'd play Crucible much more if Mayhem became a permanent playlist. Standard Crucible has lost some of its space magic over time for me and Mayhem fixes that. I love mayhem, because, to quote our resident Philosopher King bradman: It's no Skill Crucible. And it allowed me to do the Thorn portion of the quest infinitely quicker on all 3 characters
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Feb 24, 2017 10:16:12 GMT -5
Anywho..... Bungie's fessing up as to how they're going to fix stuff. When, is another matter.. but here: www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/5vu6bm/this_week_at_bungie_02232016/GOod change, imho I don't use it so I won't comment on it Good... there was no reason for this nerf. I really don't know what they were thinking Again, I don't use it but assuming they keep to their word, the skilled will still be skilled with it, and the scrubs will die I don't blink but the Bladedancers who eff me up do... so if they could just nerf blade dancers harder, that'd be great m'kay ALl depends when these are arriving, doe
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Feb 24, 2017 10:21:18 GMT -5
Oh... and IB is back next week... Supremacy is the game mode and snipers/handcannons are for sale.
Let's see how it goes without shotguns. Especially since a NLB snipe won't get you a crest it might actually be more enjoyable
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wings
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Post by wings on Feb 24, 2017 12:34:59 GMT -5
I'd play Crucible much more if Mayhem became a permanent playlist. Standard Crucible has lost some of its space magic over time for me and Mayhem fixes that. I love mayhem, because, to quote our resident Philosopher King bradman: It's no Skill Crucible. And it allowed me to do the Thorn portion of the quest infinitely quicker on all 3 characters It's anti-Trickle in a PvP environment.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Feb 24, 2017 12:42:26 GMT -5
Dreg's Promise is horrible. I'm throwing up in my mouth just thinking about it.
Chalmers, you gotta get that mic fixed.
This quote makes me angry. Everyone knew the changes would lead to a sidearm shitshow. You did too. Why did you do it?
NLB flinch will help, but it still won't change the fact that the flinch won't occur for a half second after you start hitting them, and that good players just pop out from cover and headshot you before you even appear on their screen. Given the quality of the play testers in their stream, those aren't factors they care about.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Feb 24, 2017 12:52:49 GMT -5
I love mayhem, because, to quote our resident Philosopher King bradman: It's no Skill Crucible. And it allowed me to do the Thorn portion of the quest infinitely quicker on all 3 characters It's anti-Trickle in a PvP environment. Could you imagine tricke in PVP? ugggggg
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Feb 24, 2017 12:55:10 GMT -5
Dreg's Promise is horrible. I'm throwing up in my mouth just thinking about it. Chalmers, you gotta get that mic fixed. This quote makes me angry. Everyone knew the changes would lead to a sidearm sh itshow. You did too. Why did you do it? NLB flinch will help, but it still won't change the fact that the flinch won't occur for a half second after you start hitting them, and that good players just pop out from cover and headshot you before you even appear on their screen. Given the quality of the play testers in their stream, those aren't factors they care about. Hawk... you had so much fun in the DPNF... don't lie As for the NLB part, a good player will still headshot you with it... this more of a crucible fix than a Trials fix, imho. As for the Sidearms part... anything that killed the shotgun meta, especially with IB supremacy coming up, is fine with me One other part I forgot about TW@B was the bottom; I didn't read that far down
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Feb 24, 2017 15:17:04 GMT -5
Truth buff is good, but still didn't need to be changed in the first place. NLB flinch fix is fair and probably deserved. Skorri fix is good, not that it ever affected me anyway. Nice that blink is getting un-nerfed a bit, but it probably deserves more un-nerfing IMO. There's no reason losing your HUD post-blink should be a thing at all, and I don't really understand all the nerfs to the Bladedancer in general. Sidearm ammo fix is fine, but won't really change anything. A mag or two on spawn is more than enough to rush in, get a kill or two, die, and repeat. Players doing that now are going to keep on doing it. Special ammo economy nerf was still a garbage-tier change regardless. Fixing one or two shotgun archetypes, or making minor adjustments to special ammo capacity, spawn-in values, etc. on a weapon by weapon basis would have been exponentially better, but I guess it's too much to ask for a balance team to actually balance anything.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Feb 24, 2017 15:25:16 GMT -5
SKyline is your trials map btw
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wings
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Post by wings on Feb 25, 2017 14:02:19 GMT -5
Got a Palindrome with Outlaw, Rifled Barrel, and Reactive Reload from an engram reward from my first daily public event. Might be decent.
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wings
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Post by wings on Feb 25, 2017 16:03:04 GMT -5
This quote makes me angry. Everyone knew the changes would lead to a sidearm sh itshow. You did too. Why did you do it? But are you surprised? I'm not. This is the same developer that thought Achlyophage Symbiote was due a nerf despite every other Gunslinger exotics being junk at the time. Then they repeated that with Young Ahamkara's Spine with Tripmine grenades. Not only did they decide that the grenades shouldn't be stuck but they should only be used as a trap, but they failed to remove the flashing light from them, thus making their effectiveness as a trap not as great as they could be. It wouldn't surprise me if they used statistics on Tripmine grenade kills that included data from Mayhem.
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Post by snes chalmers on Feb 25, 2017 16:50:19 GMT -5
Got a Palindrome with Outlaw, Rifled Barrel, and Reactive Reload from an engram reward from my first daily public event. Might be decent. Should be pretty good, I have the vendor Finnala's Peril that came with that roll, it does pretty well...especially if you can find another enemy in time for at least one shot with RR. I should probably try to do a public event on my characters...could use the engrams and any shards.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Feb 25, 2017 16:52:23 GMT -5
Bungie takes what's popular, nerfs it so something else becomes popular then rinses and repeats for 3 years. No one here should be angered or surprised by this. Unless you're a Young Wolf who's new to the game.
It's just unfortunate that their pvp nerfs affect the pve experience.
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wings
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Post by wings on Feb 25, 2017 18:10:58 GMT -5
Bungie takes what's popular, nerfs it so something else becomes popular then rinses and repeats for 3 years. No one here should be angered or surprised by this. Unless you're a Young Wolf who's new to the game. It's just unfortunate that their pvp nerfs affect the pve experience. I just find it a bit silly that popular stuff is getting nerfed but it's never considered in context, and this is a developer who are nerdy enough to have employed a behavioural psychologist as head of game design. Speaking of the PvE experience, I've brought this up on Reddit with the Golgoroth challenge. I was informed ages ago that Bungie designed this encounter for shotgun use. But I don't think you can kill him in time with six legendary shotguns. And why is that? Nerfs from PvP. What good is a loot shooter if you are reducing loadout choices in tackling encounters? One stupid thing I've seen Bungie comment is our "love" for sniper rifles in PvE. Yeah, because if they played their own game they'd realise if you got close to bosses with shotguns in strikes they will just OHK you with a ground pound. And they wonder why OG Nightfall strikes did not have engaging ways of play when everything basically OHK you in a shooter without a cover based system? They blamed that on Ice Breaker but it's funny how that has come back since the changes to the Nightfall modifiers and cheese spots. Bungie could easily alter the range of shotguns separate in PvE and PvP and they could disclose that on the weapon perks for example. So the only people complaining by wanting a "continuity of a sandbox" are the ones who probably should be playing simpler games. Loot shooters can get really complex when you have so many variables changing, at least that is my experience when I used to play Borderlands 2 a lot. Besides, if it's not like the ones who want a "continuity of a sandox" are questioning why Ruin Wings doesn't work in PvP, or why the description of Shinobu's Vow is now misleading.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Feb 25, 2017 19:00:05 GMT -5
You can kill Golgie with shotguns; Datto and his friends did it with the Chaperone
They also did it with the last word too
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wings
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Post by wings on Feb 25, 2017 20:16:30 GMT -5
Yes, an exotic shotgun that crits. Good luck in killing Golgoroth with a legendary shotgun like a Comedian, Stolen Will, Conspiracy Theory-D, Matador, Party Crasher etc. I did say legendary shotgun for a good reason - not having RNG that dictates your combat plan, something people complained about in year 1 with the Gjallarhorn.
Edit: Those two tactics may no longer be viable as The Last Word had its bonus damage via hipfiring removed, and I have no idea on The Chaperone.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Feb 26, 2017 16:58:42 GMT -5
Bungie takes what's popular, nerfs it so something else becomes popular then rinses and repeats for 3 years. No one here should be angered or surprised by this. Unless you're a Young Wolf who's new to the game. It's just unfortunate that their pvp nerfs affect the pve experience. Surprised? No. Angered? Of course I am. Why shouldn't I be? Just because they've done it for three years doesn't change the fact that it's a dumb as fuck way to balance a game.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Feb 27, 2017 9:37:54 GMT -5
My problem is that most of the guns in the game are simply not viable for PvP. Not viable as in you will get wrecked, and you will not have fun. Out of all the legendary weapon archetypes, if I'm being generous, 2/4 pulse, 1/4 hand cannon, and 0/4 scout and auto rifle archetypes are viable. I'll be generous and say aside from snipers, the only viable legendary secondaries are Wormwood, Saladin's Vigil, and Matador. Toss in a tiny fraction of the exotics and that's it; if you're in the top 25% of players, that's all you'll see, that's all you can use. I'm sick of getting killed by the Palindrome and snipers. Oh and they nerfed Bladedancer, when the problem is Nightstalker? I'd love to be in the lobbies they're in, not getting wombo-comboed constantly. Trials looked like a concert this weekend, smoke and spike grenades everywhere.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Feb 27, 2017 12:29:50 GMT -5
I've actually had decent success (and more importantly for me right now, a TON of fun) lately running an invis Bladedancer build. Uni Remote + Ironwreath-D (old IB vendor roll, same archetype as Wormwood), Tarantella exotic chest, flux nades, blink, fast twitch, fleet footed, and stalker. High armor and agility, low recovery, tier 5 INT and DIS, and whatever you can get in strength (which doesn't really matter due to fast twitch). Most effective on smallish/enclosed maps with good flanking routes. Exodus Blue, Blind Watch, etc. It's kind of a "hurry up and wait" playstyle that takes some getting used to. I typically rush until I get a ping on radar, crouch for invis to get off radar myself, then either continue the rush down an obvious path if I think I can get away with it, or quickly cut to a flank if the main lane looks like it covered too heavily. Better yet, people often assume you ditched out since you're not on radar, and run right into Uni range for a free kill. If you can close the gap on multiple enemies, chaos ensues. I try to stick one person and then go for Uni/melee on whoever is left, blinking around to throw people off if possible. Once people catch on to you, they tend to be very cautious and will almost freeze up to cover a lane with their primary, which is a good time for you to pop out and go for a stick since they're usually just standing still. Use a sword as a heavy and switch to it to peak corners in 3rd person to gain extra info on what enemies are doing, or even go for the stick in 3rd person. If things go well to start, you'll probably get first super due to the Tarantella, and nobody is really going to be able to shut it down without a super of their own or a lot of teamshotting. Seems like nobody is running shotgun so you're going to win almost every 1v1 now, no more trading to shotty/melee. Probably not that effective overall against good competition, but it's a lot of fun in 6v6 modes. Obviously Uni/sidearm isn't too good on bigger open maps like Frontier -- I've been switching to pulse (either Spare Change, or Bad Juju for even more super building potential) for maps like that. Added bonus: people hate you for playing like this. Never been T-bagged so much in my life.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Feb 27, 2017 12:44:04 GMT -5
I think it's important to pump the breaks on using the blanket term "PVP" as it just doesn't help imho. There are lots of guns that are viable in Crucible but not Trials. Save the Shart Light, I can't think of one gun that you can not have fun with... and because there are so many weirdos out there, I even bet there are some people who actually enjoy using the Shart Light. As you get more elite (read: Trials) you are going to get more streamlined choices.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Feb 27, 2017 13:30:50 GMT -5
I think it's important to pump the breaks on using the blanket term "PVP" as it just doesn't help imho. There are lots of guns that are viable in Crucible but not Trials. Save the Shart Light, I can't think of one gun that you can not have fun with... and because there are so many weirdos out there, I even bet there are some people who actually enjoy using the Shart Light. As you get more elite (read: Trials) you are going to get more streamlined choices. No, I was very careful to qualify my statement, because I meant exactly that. It is not about Trials. I am in the top third, maybe the top quarter of PvP players in Destiny. I'm definitely no PvP god. The weapons I go up against are simply different than the weapons you go up against, and the weapons that are viable for my use are simply much more limited than what is viable for you. I had to go all the way to your third most recent game to find this gem: your opponents' primaries were 2x Outbreak Prime, Touch of Malice, Steel Medulla, Zhalo Supercell, Suros Regime. I'm just not going to get a lobby like that, thanks to SBMM. I'm constantly going up against people who know how to snipe, people who are using meta weapons, etc. A weapon like an Auto Rifle simply isn't effective when your enemies know how to use cover. The choice for players at my skill level is to use the meta or to just not have fun at all. If I were in the top 2%, the top 5%, I'd say maybe that's ok. But it's an enormous percentage of active players that only get to use a small handful of weapons.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Feb 27, 2017 15:15:35 GMT -5
More or less what Hawk said. Crucible life for a career sub-1.0 K/D player is not remotely close to the crucible experience for career ~1.25 K/D players. Guns that are viable in sub-1.0 K/D lobbies are not viable at higher levels without massive performance decrease, or unless you're a top 2% player shitting on top 10% players or something. Players that are that good can use basically whatever they want and still dominate as long as they're not in lobbies full of other top 2%ers, but even then, they'd simply crush even harder if they were running a meta gun instead.
FWIW when I started playing again a week or two ago, I got so frustrated at getting steamrolled on my account (so much rust, lol) that I switched over to my wife's account that she uses only for Netflix and fired up a fresh gunslinger. Entered crucible at level 5 with white and green guns and armor, with only the basic double jump, grenade, melee, and super unlocked. No extra perks, terrible armor/recovery/agility stats, tier 1 or less INT/DIS/STR, etc. I went negative in one game because I was on Cathedral with an absolute POS scout rifle that was basically unusable, every other game was positive. In 3v3s I could make basically any play I wanted and get away with it because the opponents simply couldn't stop me from doing it. This was against lobbies of LL 400s with full legendary gear, some meta weapons, tier 11 and 12 builds, etc. With even half decent guns and maybe 3 tiers each in INT and DIS, I could've pulled 2.0 KDs all day without even trying. Almost any gun in the game would be viable in lobbies like that, but I'm NEVER going to see lobbies like that on my account due to SBMM.
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wings
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Post by wings on Feb 28, 2017 4:24:21 GMT -5
The problem with Bungie's implementation of SBMM are: 1. Only a handful of guns are viable if you don't want to handicap yourself too much, which is especially important given how much Super energy you will be giving away to enemy players. This also questions how much of a loot shooter Destiny is. I mentioned this on DTG a while back, but one strength of a loot shooter is how you can combat encounters with the loot at your disposal. If you end up using fewer weapons than standard shooters like Call of Duty then how much of a loot shooter is it? I would like to use my Summoner and Inward Lamp I got from Trials without being too much of a liability to my teammates. 2. It makes forming a premade Fireteam tiresome because the weaker links will just get destroyed depending on the makeup of the Fireteam. I used to run Iron Banner with friends I raid with but the weaker ones might as well have been on the other team. The times I've joined listings on the100 for Iron Banner I have usually placed as the best player at the end of the match. This looks like I've gamed the system because I might have been the best player in those Fireteams by a significant amount, like going 32-7 in Clash. Obviously I do not know for sure because Bungie has never disclosed the criteria in which they determines skill so I might have got lucky for all I know. There was one instance where someone bailed on a Fireteam I was with because he felt he wasn't contributing enough to justify his place. None of us gave a s hit as long and he wasn't going "horribly negative" either. The scoring favours players with roaming supers too so I'm guessing some of the stronger players were using roaming Supers. 3. When the top ~10% players come across a top 1% player, they might as well leave the match because SBMM has protected players from facing not as many higher skilled players they should otherwise have done so in order to improve themselves. Case in point, I came across Vl2 a while back on Clash on Cathedral of Dusk. So there will be times when I have to sweat harder than I have ever done in Trials of Osiris for sixes. And he's based in Dubai so you can add the latency issues on top of that. Add to the fact that Shaxx required people to use scout and auto rifles for the exotic chance once upon a time too. Using an auto rifle in competitive lobbies for that bounty is worse than Trickle in PvE content IMO. 4. Added queue times. When you can find games faster with shooters on legacy consoles, like Modern Warfare 2 and Bad Company 2, then something is wrong. 5. Lopsided matches are going to happen regardless. You have Supers that are anti-competitive by their very nature, a higher time to kill than vanilla that favours teamshooting (so Fireteams are favoured indirectly), and little special ammo to those joining in progress and/or no heavy. Fireteams will benefit more from chaining Supers so Bungie's stance with SBMM is a losing battle. It's the same issue with Fireteams working together to gather special ammo and Bungie has gone from displaying the countdown timer on their crates to adding removing special upon death. Better players are more likely to survive whilst having special ammo, so they will end up having special ammo when in an engagement with a lesser skilled player who is more likely to have no special ammo, or less of it. 6. The most accurate use of SBMM in the Crucible isn't even a permanent part of the public Crucible playlist. What is this nonsense you may ask? SRL. Average times for track completion is a far better metric, even with the benefits of the specific SRL armour and certain Sparrows, than the variables that the rest of the Crucible have.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Feb 28, 2017 16:25:59 GMT -5
Yea... but that's rift.... no one gives a $hit about what weapon you use in Rift
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bradman
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Post by bradman on Feb 28, 2017 16:42:07 GMT -5
You stink sir.. Good Day!
Enjoy your pants-on-head lobbies,Funboy.
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