hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Apr 7, 2017 16:30:07 GMT -5
iw5000: From the vibe I get, I think you definitely made the right decision giving up Destiny when you did. On the other hand, it sucks because I think you missed out on the best 2-3 months that Destiny had to offer. The Taken King expansion was really, really great. The story, character-building, loot system, missions, sense of exploration/discovery on the Dreadnaught, and King's Fall raid were all extremely well done IMO, a huge step up from anything up to that point (excluding the Vault of Glass, which I still think is the best content in Destiny, though some of the newer stuff gets very close). Basically, you suffered through the whole Y1 grind, but didn't get to reap the rewards when Y2 rolled around. Honestly I can't see them taking the grind back to Y1 levels. The backlash would be enormous. Things have changed so much that it would be impossible for them to get away with that without alienating a huge portion of the playerbase. For comparison's sake: Activities that dropped max light items when you left: Raids, Trials of Osiris (flawless only, I think), Iron Banner (but only a couple months after a light level increase), Nightfalls (not sure on this one). Activities that drop max light items now: Raids, Trials (flawless, post match rewards, and bounty completion), Iron Banner (at all times, post match rewards, bounty completion), Nightfall, Heroic strike skeleton key chests, Strike bounties from Zavala (3 per week), Faction rank up packages, Three of Coins/Exotic engrams, Crucible post match rewards (at all times), Crucible weekly bounties (2 per week), Archon's Forge, and there might be more that I'm forgetting. Not to mention the speed at which you can gain light levels engram decryption, which is much faster than anything you saw in Y1. It's a completely different game when it comes to gear upgrades and increasing your level.
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wings
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Post by wings on Apr 8, 2017 17:14:24 GMT -5
iw5000: From the vibe I get, I think you definitely made the right decision giving up Destiny when you did. On the other hand, it sucks because I think you missed out on the best 2-3 months that Destiny had to offer. The Taken King expansion was really, really great. The story, character-building, loot system, missions, sense of exploration/discovery on the Dreadnaught, and King's Fall raid were all extremely well done IMO, a huge step up from anything up to that point (excluding the Vault of Glass, which I still think is the best content in Destiny, though some of the newer stuff gets very close). Basically, you suffered through the whole Y1 grind, but didn't get to reap the rewards when Y2 rolled around. Honestly I can't see them taking the grind back to Y1 levels. The backlash would be enormous. Things have changed so much that it would be impossible for them to get away with that without alienating a huge portion of the playerbase. For comparison's sake: Activities that dropped max light items when you left: Raids, Trials of Osiris (flawless only, I think), Iron Banner (but only a couple months after a light level increase), Nightfalls (not sure on this one). Activities that drop max light items now: Raids, Trials (flawless, post match rewards, and bounty completion), Iron Banner (at all times, post match rewards, bounty completion), Nightfall, Heroic strike skeleton key chests, Strike bounties from Zavala (3 per week), Faction rank up packages, Three of Coins/Exotic engrams, Crucible post match rewards (at all times), Crucible weekly bounties (2 per week), Archon's Forge, and there might be more that I'm forgetting. Not to mention the speed at which you can gain light levels engram decryption, which is much faster than anything you saw in Y1. It's a completely different game when it comes to gear upgrades and increasing your level. I believe Nightfall has always dropped max level light items, it just didn't require you to be the same light level as for raids. There are also five weekly bounties from Arcite that give you a guaranteed specific weapon that you need kills with. I usually pick up the pulse and sniper rifle ones to try and get the Blind Perdition and Winged Word as the Trials weapons do drop from these bounties. I have only completed the pulse rifle bounty once and got Nirwen's Mercy. Given the state of special economy in the Crucible, Winged Word is basically a trophy and it's good to practice with Ice Breaker. I use it in sixes and players don't expect it as they expect sidearm spam.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Apr 12, 2017 4:13:11 GMT -5
Player population was okay before and after they changed their loot mindset. It really started with the Oryx expansion I think, Ghorn was out and there was a lot to get for little effort, and all the best guns (swords/spindle/sleeper) where tied to quests with 0 RNG. They did screw up with the crucible balance ever since though, and that is the part that has me worried personally. They should stop giving in to the whiners. First auto rifle nerfs, then HC nerfs, then special nerfs, in the meanwhile a huge nerf to the overall grindiness in PvE. They are doing the right thing in following their players oppinions, but they go all overboard. They should do frequent, small incremental changes. They should stick to what made this game great, and don't give in all at once.
The player population is still okay tbh, for a two year old game I can find a random LFG group within minutes. The thing is, the players are not complaining about the grind anymore, more like the opposite. Almost all exotics have been nerfed to the point you sometimes rather run around with all legendaries. I get that Ghorn screwed some players over big time (I got it really late too but never really minded), but they went too far the other way around imho. No exotic really stands out anymore, and I personally hope they go back to the RNG really powerfull exotics, but make them ALL (or at least more than 3-4 like D1) really powerfull. Balance them every few months if needed. I personally want to miss a few exotics after a few months in. Ghorn was a crutch, it allowed you to do stuff you shouldn't in the first place really. It was OP and made the game boring, so I hope they don't make guns THAT powerfull, but they (plural!) should still feel OP. Raid teams who demanded a Ghorn where bad teams most of the time though, or doing something silly (like solo Crota). LFG people can be a bitch though.
I can't really see your last point though. I don't see how being dick'ish with the loot would benefit them in any way. They are not selling extra RNG opportunities with money (or so I hope...), so there is nothing to gain for them from being stingy with loot. They thought a long grind was best for their playerbase (who bought a loot based online FPS), and they were wrong. They did fix that all in year 2 and 3, and tbh, I hope they go back a little. I agree completely, I don't want to have to play 100 hours just to go raiding with my friends. But I do want some kind of a grind, even if that is only a gotta catch them all aproach, but something. Loot is what makes players come back and do the same stuff all over again, and while that is probably the major weakness of this game, it is also its biggest strength.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Apr 12, 2017 9:35:12 GMT -5
Loot is the only thing that has kept the game going. Imagine if they changed it so that every mission had predetermined loot drops such that every item in the game was spread out to drop from some mission or quest or whatever. Once you've played every mission and every raid on every difficulty you'd have acquired all of the loot. It would still have been a pretty neat game, in fact those would be some seriously generous rewards and well worth playing through all those missions, but there would be no replay value and after beating the game many people would have just stopped. Thing is, it still would have been a massive game, and I can even see some upsides. But it also would have highlighted the game's weaknesses and it would have been one of those flash in the pan shooters that come and go quickly.
The catch is... that IS what Destiny is at it's heart. Just because they dole out loot to get you to replay stuff you've already done doesn't make it a better game. If that were true then Payday 2 would be amazeballs with it's grindiness.
I do think Bungie has a tough balancing act with grindiness of loot drops. Too easy and the core tryhards will get bored and leave when they've gotten everything the game has to offer in just a few weeks. Too hard and the game will lose casuals. You really can't get mass market without casuals so it's probably better they lean more in that direction. But if they're smart about it they can keep a few things more grindy or difficult for the more hardcore players to have goals. Originally they achieved this only through RNG loot and low drop rate items like GHorn... that was only mitigated by Xur... and not well. So yeah that wasn't too great. Sounds like maybe they fixed that now.
Honestly I'd just like to know... something... about Destiny 2. Right now all I know is that it's a thing and it'll have DLC. I might be tempted, but I know it's going to be expensive to buy in and stay current and even if I get a copy with a season pass it'll only be good for a year. I wouldn't mind as much if I felt like we really got a good value for our money, but the missions aren't all that great. The game has a lot of cool stuff, it all looks very nice. Nice design on the enemies and weapons. Even the feel of the weapons is quite nice and satisfying... very similar to Halo, but with more punch. (Halo combat was more spongy in general due to shields, but the weapons good against shields were energy weapons that were less satisfying.) I like the combat model in just about everything but Nightfalls. (Nightfalls in year one without really good modifiers were a major slog that required very specific gear to make them not completely AIDS inducing. I don't at all like how Bungie's answer for making things more difficult was to turn enemies into bullet sponges.) Back to what I was saying... Basically Destiny has some great design, and some great systems, but the core game was actually disappointing. The campaign is extremely weak and the individual missions are repetitive and unimaginative. They give us really cool speeder bike like vehicles then relegate them to use only as mere transportation around patrol areas or maybe for skipping some areas in some missions. In Halo the vehicles were integral to many of the missions and used for a variety of things. Hell some of my best memories of Halo:CE were of figuring out how to squeeze and cajole my warthog down into places it was never meant to be taken, just for the sake of keeping it. Driving warthogs has always been a highlight of Halo for me. Bungie has no equivalent. It's fun to drive around, but other than just getting from point A to point B more quickly than running ultimately useless.
I don't understand why the missions are so dull. All of the halo games had co-op as well. I've completed most of them in co-op and had a blast. It worked well and I didn't feel like the game lost something for including co-op. Halo 3 made the most sense with the co-op, but Reach was my favorite. We both got to use our highly customized spartans and even though the co-op wasn't acknowledged in the cinematics the gameplay worked just fine and was fun. So I know that co-op wasn't the limiting factor that caused Bungie to scale back their mission design.
Destiny also just feels a lot smaller than Halo did. Halo had combat vehicles and large maps. It had giant things to ride on and failing or succeeding at missions had big results. In Destiny everything is static. Nothing ever changes, and there's no really large battles, enemies, vehicles, or even moving platforms or anything. Basically it's all just small scale skirmishes with no visible consequences or achievements and you never even see the people your supposedly defending other than a couple people in the tower. I feel like the fact that you never go into the city for even a cinematic was a huge mistake. We have no real connection to it. If anything staring at the city in the background over and over just makes it less and less real to the point that I don't even feel emotionally like it exists, because I know it doesn't and I'm kind of reminded of that over and over. The Guardians don't stand for anything, they just stand against their enemies. But death for them isn't permanent either so... Well what's left? Cayde 6 sums it up... there will be tons of loot... (and not much else?) I guess we'll see.
I hope... I hopeIhopeIhope... Bungie learned a lot from this, but also looked back at what made Halo great and decided to do something really great with Destiny 2 and not just build a new game with new loot. Because if that's all it is... new locations, new enemies, new loot... same formulaic missions... well then I don't think I'll be along for the ride.
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wings
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Post by wings on Apr 13, 2017 13:53:02 GMT -5
I don't understand why the missions are so dull. I liked Iron Tomb and The Black Garden when I first played them. Can't speak for the Halo missions but I suspect there's some nostalgia playing a part there.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Apr 13, 2017 16:48:07 GMT -5
There's some nostalgia for Halo, sure. But they also are pretty objectively about 100 times more "epic". Just a few particulars in no particular order: - Fighting to the hanger then throwing a giant bomb and yourself out an airlock, sploding a giant alien ship, then getting picked up by another friendly ship
- Fighting your way to upper level bridges where you can drop onto the back of a giant four legged alien mech to kill it's crew and stop it from slaughtering your allies
- Driving and flying things that can shoot including tanks and aircraft
- Fighting your way on foot and through the air through an alien facility to finally cut the cables and drop it into the atmosphere of a gas giant
- Large missions that have multiple objectives you can tackle in any order
- Large battles with multiple friendly and enemy vehicles of many types
- Using a fighter to take out enemy fighters and disable a large alien ship so that you can jump out and battle your way through it's corridors to commandeer it and use it as a weapon
- Driving a vehicle like a bat out of hell through the interior of a large ship that is about to self destruct
There's a lot more than that, but I just named a few things pretty randomly. Destiny LOOKS gorgeous, but ultimately you don't usually wind up really doing very much. Mostly you shoot or ignore a few dudes on the way to somewhere, shoot dudes at place while you wait for dudes to stop coming, or shoot dudes and boss until boss is dead. Nothing really changes much and you barely even go anywhere. Bungie actually uses pretty small maps to represent entire planets. It's hard to believe everything important on Mars is all in one tiny little area. The only time you have any sense of actually having to travel any real distance is when going from planet to planet, but the fact that it's just a glorified load screen quickly wears that down to the point that it's functionally just the time where you turn away from your console so that you can fiddle with your inventory until the next mission loads. I think the most epic thing I did in the whole campaign was raise the giant dish. That felt like, Hey! We did a thing! Nearly every mission is completely devoid of that feeling. It's just go here, shoot that, pat on the back from ghost. Okay next thing to shoot... But there's always another thing to shoot, in fact there's always still the SAME thing to shoot... over and over again. So there's zero sense of accomplishment unless you get loot. The loot makes the game interesting and offers accomplishment in a game that is otherwise practically devoid of any accomplishment. Even beating the entire campaign results in... what, exactly? You kinda maybe shoved some evil chaos god thing back where it comes from and prevented it from doing bad shit. But all you've done is perpetuate the already stagnate circumstances. The Guardians and the baddies are in a centuries old stalemate and for all of the talk about things changing because of X, Y, or Z they actually don't. The game looks epic, it plays really nice, but nothing happens and you are one of hundreds/thousands/millions? of interchangeable but supposedly very important Guardians. There's no huge battles, and almost no real variation in missions. Halo would constantly change your surroundings and what was going on. They kept the missions interesting by making each one different. You'd be driving around in a warthog in a large map in one then fighting in close quarters corridors, you ride large structures. You go all over the place by all sorts of means and even though the primary mechanic of the game is still just "shoot things" you are accomplishing various things. In Destiny you just go somewhere so your ghost can babble something, then go to the next spot for him to babble. Occasionally you stay there for a while. Your options for travel are on foot or on you speeder bike... but mostly on foot. The missions are just... mostly... dull. There's some cool things here and there, but considering we replay them over and over it would be really nice if they were more interesting or at least more varied. As is the only real standouts are the raids.
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wings
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Post by wings on Apr 14, 2017 6:09:15 GMT -5
The missions are mostly dull because the story got changed late and the person who ordered that change got fired. I speculated on here years ago that the story that was released was far from the original that was supposed to have been shipped, got doubted by the PlayStation players on here, and had my suspicions confirmed a few months back. If it's of interest, Bungie are actually hiring for a post for narrative lead, presumably for content beyond vanilla Destiny 2. So long as they don't have major issues like this, I'll assume they can actually do better otherwise I might as well apply for a job at Bungie at this rate. I don't know if it's an age issue but when I fought the non-raid bosses in Destiny I have never felt "wowed" as I did when I fought General RAAM or Skorge in Gears of War. Not denying the missions need variety though.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Apr 14, 2017 8:01:32 GMT -5
There's so much potential, they just need to prove that they can actually execute like they did for Halo. I guess we'll see.
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tooros
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Post by tooros on Apr 18, 2017 7:47:34 GMT -5
I know this isn't the right thread but, could someone point me to it please? I switched destiny on last night. Saw a huge update had happened and I'm lost. I have the latest dlc. Seems like there are exclusives and now I can get to ll400. Purple triangles flashing all over the map. Where the fekkirk do I start?
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Apr 18, 2017 8:46:23 GMT -5
Lol, can you give an estimation when you played last? Did you play against the Siva? Have you visited the iron temple? Did you play in december during the festival of the lost? (Halloween) and/or sparrow racing event? Did you play kings fall raid last? Some more info would be great
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tooros
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Post by tooros on Apr 18, 2017 9:00:45 GMT -5
Lol, can you give an estimation when you played last? Did you play against the Siva? Have you visited the iron temple? Did you play in december during the festival of the lost? (Halloween) and/or sparrow racing event? Did you play kings fall raid last? Some more info would be great Played the Siva. Played the festival of the lost. Did the raid (pretty sure - there have only been three right?) been to iron temple. Have some medallions. There seemed to be a whole bunch of 'exclusive to (latest dlc) owners. I think it's the 'Age of Triumph' stuff that's thrown me.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Apr 18, 2017 9:39:28 GMT -5
Ok, age of triumph is basically every single raid brought up to max light level, and every raid has a challenge mode now (so VoG and Crota's end have been changed a bit). They are on a weekly rotation for challenge modes, but you can do the 390 version of them all if you want too for loot or for fun. You won't be able to get challenge mode loot though (and that is exotic versions of all the primary raid weapons, with burn!). Every raid primary is now available in a legendary version (no challenge mode needed to loot that) and an exotic (adept) version. Each challenge boss completion provides you with a random adept primary. Everything is 400 light.
A lot of fun tbh. To review them:
- Crota is a lot of fun with a basic group. You will get it, you don't have to cheese anything (don't even know if you still can). Bridge is a (different) very nice encounter now, doable with half a brain. Challenges are kill every single AD before killing IR Yut which is a challenge, but not impossible(the singing wizzard). Crota challenge is nobody can pick up the sword a second time (so no dedicated sword bearer, and no hunter invis tricks between downs).
- VoG is a little bit easier than hard mode was once that came out, but the challenge modes are a little bit harder, especially Templar.
- Kings Fall raid (Oryx) didn't change really. The only difference to note is that the knights seem to be a little bit more beefy, not being killed by a single 1000K shot, but spindle and the other max impact snipers still do. So take one of those with you.
- Wrath of the machine is up this week, have not tried it yet, but will probably be the same as well. (You might not have tried this to begin with though, if you really only did 3. Great raid, you should really try it.)
There is also a new record book, one with basically a lot of stuff in it. They provide pretty cool emblems, and you don't have to complete everything to get to the last rewards, as completing everything will be a major pain.
Also a new quest which is kind of pointless, gives you a class item and makes you go to a lot of places. Also story playlist instead of daily story missions and some other stuff. In general making almost all content end game content.
In review, I think this update is what Destiny needed at this point (other than D2). It is the final breath. Everything is relevant as long as you still think it is fun. Good times TBH. A last few raids to have fun and eat some memberberries.
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wings
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Post by wings on Apr 18, 2017 12:58:46 GMT -5
Yeah a lot of the emblems from the new record book look decent. I recently completed Wrath of the Machine with the challenge modes to complete the raids page in the book earning the emblem below: Boy was I rusty in Wrath of the Machine. Fun to play but it feels ridiculously cramped so wearing the raid armour is actually noticeable. Oh yeah, I got Astrocyte Verse recently so I just need to earn First Curse and then the only exotics I have left are a few of the raid ones.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Apr 19, 2017 4:30:43 GMT -5
Yeah Aksis challenge mode is no joke for sure. Didn't complete it yesterday but we only had one hour with one player who didn't kill aksis at all yet. Still a great raid though imho.
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wings
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Post by wings on Apr 20, 2017 11:44:01 GMT -5
Yeah Aksis challenge mode is no joke for sure. Didn't complete it yesterday but we only had one hour with one player who didn't kill aksis at all yet. Still a great raid though imho. Did Aksis challenge earlier today on the right instead of the middle and it felt a lot easier. If that player was placed in middle then it probably wasn't a good idea unless my perceived easier session was a coincidence.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Apr 21, 2017 4:27:56 GMT -5
Yeah middle is harder for sure, but the main thing was we missed dunks etc. We only did like 5 tries so no biggie. We got it completed on Wednesday. Biggest thing for this challenge seems to be use supers to kill captains and never ever ever have anything take priority over positioning and callouts of empowered.
Oh yeah, don't forget to hide from AKSIS, it saves you a lot of trouble.
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wings
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Post by wings on Apr 21, 2017 7:02:17 GMT -5
Yeah middle is harder for sure, but the main thing was we missed dunks etc. We only did like 5 tries so no biggie. We got it completed on Wednesday. Biggest thing for this challenge seems to be use supers to kill captains and never ever ever have anything take priority over positioning and callouts of empowered. Oh yeah, don't forget to hide from AKSIS, it saves you a lot of trouble. Not sure if you have not seen this but below is a good infographic you could direct less versed Guardians: imgur.com/RNsIzuvThe divide in the stairs can be annoying at times. I thought completing the Mountaintop SIVA cluster task in the record book would make me immune from experience all the weird geometry thegame can throw at me but nope!
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Apr 21, 2017 9:27:26 GMT -5
Yeah I saw that, but I personally feel the middle one should be just on the elevation in the back. Running mid mid is pretty easy to dunk. But back plate can be quite late if you are in position like on the picture.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Apr 22, 2017 7:30:42 GMT -5
As someone who has all of one challenge clear on Aksis now, and who caused a wipe by not being able to get back plate in time from that marked position, I'm going to have to agree. Gotta play deep center field so Aksis can't hit a double over your head, and if it comes to it, charge the short pop up guardian.
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wings
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Post by wings on Apr 22, 2017 10:57:04 GMT -5
Yeah I went back to the middle yesterday and had a bit of a mare because I didn't stand on the edge of the middle teleport. I only went between the two obstacles in mid because the callout to Aksis' new location was a little delayed, which is critical for someone running mid. When I was on the right I didn't even need the callout for where Aksis teleported because I don't have the pillars blocking my line of sight seeing where he has gone like in mid. I have only done the challenge mode for Aksis three times so it will come second nature eventually.
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Post by iw5000 on Apr 24, 2017 12:20:34 GMT -5
Maybe someone can answer this question for me.
A small gripe I had with Destiny 1 was the whole 'worlds' format. As someone above pointed out, Destiny tried to tout itself as this open world, exploration type of game, but for the most part, it's maps & worlds were tiny. Not just tiny, but pretty restricted. Take Mars. Four or five big 'areas', which had a few locked out paths leading to missions. That's the entire planet? And what was in or on the planets was also kind of dull, once you learned the pattern. Kind of dull. Well, it was a lot of dull. Fly to here. Wait for respawns. Shoot the same shit that arrived on a fixed pattern. LOTS of wasted time.
Maybe I'm asking to much of the game, but compare the above open world of Destiny, to that of say GTA V. GTA V felt pretty alive and amazing compared to Destiny. Oceans, flying in the air, tunnels, people, traffic, you can do whatever you want, wherever you want. There really seemed to be no limit to what you could do. I felt like I could explore for a hundred hours and still not find everything on that GTA V island. Then add in how it was also much harder to pin down spawns in terms of the populace patterns. Then toss in the polic alert system if you got a bit to out of hand wrecking the environment. Why can't Destiny work something like this type of open space world into it's gameplay? To much to ask? For that matter, I feel like the N64's Zelda did a better open world years ago than Destiny.
Like I said above, Destiny did a decent job of hiding it's poor job of map sizes. If you didn't look close, play much or pay attention, the world's might seem big and full of exploration. But if you did look closely, play a fair amount, actually map out the areas..... you quickly realized there was almost no exploration or cool things to find. The worlds were lame. It was pretty boring actually and lifeless.
I think that is one of the fun parts of gaming, that can add to a game. Making the world you play in more alive. GTV V did this so well. Going wherever you want. Exploring. Getting in over your head. I remember playing GTA IV years ago, accidently stumbling onto a way to get into Manhattan while it was still supposedly blocked off. I snuck in via a subway line, and then immediately had the five star police chase. This was hilarious and fun. And even Destiny had a few very tiny moments with this. Like when one could sneak into the back room areas of the Vault of Glass. Off of the Templar's room. That was kind of cool.
I hope Destiny 2 adds the above.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Apr 24, 2017 12:29:56 GMT -5
Yeah middle is harder for sure, but the main thing was we missed dunks etc. We only did like 5 tries so no biggie. We got it completed on Wednesday. Biggest thing for this challenge seems to be use supers to kill captains and never ever ever have anything take priority over positioning and callouts of empowered. Oh yeah, don't forget to hide from AKSIS, it saves you a lot of trouble. Killing the Captains is easy, you just have to follow two rules: - Don't even think about dealing with the Captain until you've killed all of the shanks. Seriously, you don't die because the Captain one-shot you. You die because a single shank chipped away your health just enough for the Captain to wreck you. - The Captain in the middle should be killed either by a Super, or by someone on either side using their cannon. Another tip - do not wipe just because someone died. Identify someone skilled who is comfortable being accurate with the cannons. Have them be on one of the sides. Communicate to everyone that they will be doing two cannons. If the person that died was on their side, have someone from middle rotate to their side. That player will kill their Captain, grab cannon, drop down to middle (killing that Captain if he's not dead already), and swap back and forth between cannons, jumping to hit the shots on the sides.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Apr 25, 2017 10:05:05 GMT -5
Maybe someone can answer this question for me. A small gripe I had with Destiny 1 was the whole 'worlds' format. As someone above pointed out, Destiny tried to tout itself as this open world, exploration type of game, but for the most part, it's maps & worlds were tiny. Not just tiny, but pretty restricted. Take Mars. Four or five big 'areas', which had a few locked out paths leading to missions. That's the entire planet? And what was in or on the planets was also kind of dull, once you learned the pattern. Kind of dull. Well, it was a lot of dull. Fly to here. Wait for respawns. Shoot the same shit that arrived on a fixed pattern. LOTS of wasted time. Maybe I'm asking to much of the game, but compare the above open world of Destiny, to that of say GTA V. GTA V felt pretty alive and amazing compared to Destiny. Oceans, flying in the air, tunnels, people, traffic, you can do whatever you want, wherever you want. There really seemed to be no limit to what you could do. I felt like I could explore for a hundred hours and still not find everything on that GTA V island. Then add in how it was also much harder to pin down spawns in terms of the populace patterns. Then toss in the polic alert system if you got a bit to out of hand wrecking the environment. Why can't Destiny work something like this type of open space world into it's gameplay? To much to ask? For that matter, I feel like the N64's Zelda did a better open world years ago than Destiny. Like I said above, Destiny did a decent job of hiding it's poor job of map sizes. If you didn't look close, play much or pay attention, the world's might seem big and full of exploration. But if you did look closely, play a fair amount, actually map out the areas..... you quickly realized there was almost no exploration or cool things to find. The worlds were lame. It was pretty boring actually and lifeless. I think that is one of the fun parts of gaming, that can add to a game. Making the world you play in more alive. GTV V did this so well. Going wherever you want. Exploring. Getting in over your head. I remember playing GTA IV years ago, accidently stumbling onto a way to get into Manhattan while it was still supposedly blocked off. I snuck in via a subway line, and then immediately had the five star police chase. This was hilarious and fun. And even Destiny had a few very tiny moments with this. Like when one could sneak into the back room areas of the Vault of Glass. Off of the Templar's room. That was kind of cool. I hope Destiny 2 adds the above. From the leaks I've heard/seen around the interwebs, D2 will have a lot more of the open world stuff than D1 did. I doubt it'll be anywhere near the scale or have the massive number of activities of GTA, but apparently Saturn or one of its moons will be a huge playable space, larger than all playable spaces combined from D1. Additionally, you'll supposedly be able to seamlessly transition from open space to towns/hubs, and be able to queue for activities without ever opening you menu. Sounds like some MMOish stuff there. Again, all rumors for now, but I'd imagine we'll find out much more on 5/18.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Apr 25, 2017 10:39:12 GMT -5
That sounds like a huge step up if it turns out to be true. I definitely think that the way they build the games maps was a huge constraint on D1. I would have preferred one huge open world than tiny little bits of a couple of worlds all separated by pretty load screens. Bigger and more interconnected would be a big step up and not forcing us up to orbit all the time to sit through more load screens would also be really really great.
To be honest part of what RDR and GTAV did to make their maps so much bigger and more dynamic could probably work well in Destiny. Bungie would just have to be willing to make the maps much bigger and spread the content out a bit. Basically you just need more sections like that river in Cosmodrome where you just ride through it from one section to another. They just have to spread out the more hand placed tight corridor combat content and give us a lot more open space with a lot more choice of routes, then get out of the way and not force us to leave just because we completed a mission. It can definitely be done. I won't expect GTA level openness, because Bungie's never really done open world, but they have done bigger and more open stuff than we see in D1. I suppose you could argue if all of Earth were considered 1 map it's pretty big, but it's all chopped up into a lot of places you can't get to without going through pretty tight corridors. I got pretty good at making some of those trips without getting off my sparrow. The moon is more open than Earth.
Of course my dream would be for Destiny to go full on open world and give us access to more or less an entire city and a large section outside it... (think GTAV only there's a wall around the main city and everything outside the city is extremely hostile, but there's also lots of stuff going on inside the city as well as at, under, and over the wall). Along with that I'd love to have the vehicles more integrated into the game rather than just being fast ground transport and a glorified load screen. Let us shoot from our Sparrows, at least our primary, maybe with reduced accuracy. Or build a weapon into the sparrow. Let us customize our sparrows and ships. Give us a chance to use our ships for things too. It would be great if we could fly around like you can in GTA and go up into space for missions and travel. Bungie won't do all that, though. It's too ambitious and would take ages to really polish. I wish they'd consider doing at least some of it, though. The space combat in Halo:Reach was fun and I replayed those missions a lot.
Another thing Bungie really needs to do is PUT THE LORE IN THE GAME. I remember the first time I saw a video of someone pulling out the ghost and thinking, "Oh cool you can scan stuff like in Metroid Prime!" Nope... In fact using your ghost to scan things in Destiny happens so seldom and in such a scripted way that I don't think they should have even kept it in the game. They should have just left it either automatic or just contextual use button stuff. If they were to do it properly it could be really fun and be a vehicle for compiling an in game grimoire. Farming that out to an exterior website ensured that the majority of the player base would never even see it. If it had all been in the game the lorenerding could have reached near Dark Souls levels, as is pretty much only Reddit readers cared and most of the players just run out and shoot things with no idea what the story even is, much less the backstory.
Anyway... I guess we'll see what they have in store for D2 and go from there.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Apr 25, 2017 12:48:01 GMT -5
Without someone dropping their pants and $hitting on me for being a Destiny Homer/Apologist... as is the norm for someone when I talk about Destiny...
- GTA V had 4 versions to get a formula right... Destiny is still forging that path. Especially since the story line was sodomized and they had to rewrite it with little time before release
- I expect a much bigger, better open world from D2 since the legacy consoles have been euthanized
- IF I were to guess, I would say that, now that the Tower has been destroyed and probably, our ships... there will be more time on earth than other planets, but with a lot more areas to explore on earth. Possibly a lack of sparrows too? DLC's would then open up new planets?
- Nevertheless, they can't really recycle those old apologies anymore.... they've essentially used Destiny 1 to get their path down and to see what the game population will and will not expect/tolerate.
I trust them to get it right and keep the same thing that they had going RoI forward, Festival of the Cost hiccups aside. the system they had in place for RoI was definitely something they can build off of, minus IMHO, no vault space and (again, just my opinion) a poor raid that I personally didn't like but a lot of people did and good for them.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Apr 25, 2017 13:07:40 GMT -5
To be fair it's not like Destiny was Bungie's first rodeo. Destiny falls short in many ways that Halo:CE, Halo 2, Halo 3, and Halo: Reach did not. I can totally understand the parts of the game that are totally outside Bungie's experience falling apart but the game should have been at least on par with those four titles in story and campaign and it simply was not. Hell Reach has a few single missions that are almost as big as the entire Lunar surface and with far bigger battles and stuff going on.
Bungie pulled way back on their mission design and shrunk everything down. Halo always felt huge and expansive even at it's most linear. You bump up against the walls in Destiny constantly. The only thing that has kept Destiny around is loot as a reward for replaying stuff you've already done. Not saying the game isn't fun. I actually quite like it. But they really did limit the game in a whole lot of ways. It's a loot grind... a very pretty, very satisfying, and yet very shallow loot grind.
The best thing about Destiny is it's potential. I sure hope they keep at it until it really is an amazing game.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Apr 25, 2017 13:23:32 GMT -5
Actually, the leaks I've seen are suggesting that the world maps will not only be much larger, more open, and more freely explorable, but they'll also be more densely filled with activities (although what types of activities aren't specified -- for all we know a small group of enemies on a perpetual and predictable respawn timer counts as an "activity"). I have no idea how they're going to manage that, but if they do pull it off I think it will be amazing. Also, space flight is apparently a thing coming at some point -- sounded like it may not be there at launch, but will be in the game eventually. I assume there would probably be space combat too, but even if it's just summoning a ship while you're on the ground and then flying off to another planet or whatever yourself, instead of sitting in a glorified load screen for a couple minutes, that'd be a cool change. I'd guess the "fast travel" load screen thing would still exist for those who want to use that travel time as a drink/smoke/bathroom break instead of doing the traveling manually.
Frankly, at this point I'm trying really hard to keep my expectations in check. The pessimist in me looks at all the issues that still exist in D1 and thinks Bungie isn't quite there yet. D2 will be much bigger and better than Vanilla D1, and bigger and better than current D1 for that matter, but won't be the huge leap forward we're hoping for -- it'll just be more of the same (which is fine, I suppose, but would be disappointing). The optimist in me knows how great the minute-to-minute gameplay feels in D1, knows D2 won't be constrained by last-gen hardware, and knows Bungie has basically had a 3 year "beta" for D2 to learn everything they need to learn to deliver something amazing and potentially revolutionary.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Apr 25, 2017 13:26:25 GMT -5
Another thing Bungie really needs to do is PUT THE LORE IN THE GAME. I remember the first time I saw a video of someone pulling out the ghost and thinking, "Oh cool you can scan stuff like in Metroid Prime!" Nope... In fact using your ghost to scan things in Destiny happens so seldom and in such a scripted way that I don't think they should have even kept it in the game. They should have just left it either automatic or just contextual use button stuff. If they were to do it properly it could be really fun and be a vehicle for compiling an in game grimoire. Farming that out to an exterior website ensured that the majority of the player base would never even see it. If it had all been in the game the lorenerding could have reached near Dark Souls levels, as is pretty much only Reddit readers cared and most of the players just run out and shoot things with no idea what the story even is, much less the backstory. Lore in general is pretty gay. Destiny's lore is super gay. I think they kind of figured that out with Nathan Fillion making fun of pretty much everything. And I hope they stick with with that approach. There are many ways for D2 to backslide. The most obvious and easily avoidable is taking another crack at super serious space magic storytime. The more open-world stuff sounds fine. God knows the endless loading screens are a major quality of life issue in the original. The core things they need to fix for me are pretty simple, frame-rate (which should be a given since there's a PC version), and amount of content, especially raids. Sort that out and I'm set, even if Crucible is still an unplayable shit show.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Apr 25, 2017 14:00:22 GMT -5
The lore stuff not being in the game bugs people? I mean... yea, I guess.
But is it really really that important? Because, to me, the lore is kinda like getting leather seats or satellite radio in my car; it's awesome but ultimately, I'm a lot more concerned about leg room (vault space), air conditioning (story line) safety features (lack of cheaters in Crucible) and gas consumption (glitchy raid/strike mechanics)
I mean, sure... give me the lore and all those stories and stuff... but if I'm stopping playing the game because my vault is packed to the gills and I have to deliberately purge it... f$$k the lore and all that.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Apr 25, 2017 15:56:30 GMT -5
I have fairly low expectations for Destiny 2 to be significantly different from Destiny 1. I expect it to have some new subclasses, new weapons and armor (of course), at the very least the same basic set of activities (Story, Strike, Patrol, Arena, Raid, PvP). I expect it to have a much longer, better story. I expect it to have much more content at launch than D1 did - you'll have a weekly checklist more similar to the one now than you had at launch. I don't really expect anything in particular beyond that.
As for exploreable areas - I assume Earth; hebbnh seems to be confident in Saturn. The two DLC are Rasputin and Osiris. The initial plan for Destiny 1 DLC was to have a storyline where the Hive capture Rasputin and take him/it back to the Dreadnaught, I don't know if they would go back to the Dreadnaught, make it a different ship, or scrap that storyline completely. Osiris was obsessed with the Vex, I'd assume that expansion will feature Mercury and have a Vex Raid.
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