qupie
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Post by qupie on Sept 26, 2018 6:19:55 GMT -5
But if you've just started playing the game, you're not at a point where you're ready to be top tier 1%er yet. Everything that I've seen (granted, it's not much) has said that Bungie wants to slow things down... that they've learned (ahahahahaha, like I believe that) from D2 launch and they don't want people with nothing to do other than PVP after 6 weeks. On a different note, how's the new raid? I think with the additions that were added yesterday, this expansion is miles better than anything we have seen in destiny. Great content, great leveling system, decent PvP balance (although PvP is still eh due to 30FPS and netcode) challenging end game encounters, plenty of resources to level up, pretty big grind, great end game patrol (something we never really had) less punishing if you don't do 3 characters and by far the best raid we have ever had. I went from "Ok I will try this expansion because my friends will be playing it anyway, I will probably be back at fortnite in 2 weeks" to "what is fortnite again?". If you like to grind, this is for you. If you like to play shooters without a grind, this game is not for you anymore (finally).
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wings
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Post by wings on Sept 26, 2018 6:38:42 GMT -5
Complete disagree for me personally. It gives me an actual choice now, with an actual consequence. Something unheard of in Destiny before. You either use your new weapon you got (or one that is quite close in light) or you infuse. The infusion will be worthless in a week or so, until you get to LL 600. Almost all weapons are useful nowadays (even most of the bad perks are mediocre) and if you get a high weapon to drop that sucks, the subsequent weapons drops will be quite high still. Since you don't have to equip the highest weapon to get good loot, wielding a weapon that is <10-15 light less is no big deal at all. The only activities worth infusing for is the raid, iron banner and the new dungeon. I have infused my midnight coup once, my bygones once, some shotgun for iron banner, my zenith of you kind twice, my tractor cannon once and my whisper twice. Thats it. I have been having a blast with the new weapons. Being forced to make a choice which actually has a consequence is a breath of fresh air for me personally. Infusion became an end game min max thing, instead of "dump every light level in your favorite gun without thinking". I love Destiny finally seems to embrace some of their RPG elements over shooter elements. p.s. I had like 20 cores going into forsaken, and I have 48 right now (and I only visit spider when I am there already). You're only being forced to use different guns because the game has non-existent skill trees, which could be used to affect gunplay. Look at Borderlands 2. You're encouraged to use different guns by the customisation of the vault hunters' skill trees and what is a top tier weapon for one vault hunter may be trash for another (e.g. Jakobs rifles are good for Maya but trash for Zer0, Vladof rifles are good for Zer0 but trash for Maya). I'd say that is a better way to add 'RPG' elements to the game as you could end up with a bucket load of different loot to use for each character. For Destiny players use the exact same weapons regardless of which subclass they are using so I'm not sure what 'RPG' elements the game is supposed to have, especially before the new Supers were created. I'd say the Nightfall is worth infusing for but it depends on your light level. I do appreciate the light level calculations that take into account what I have, rather than what I have equipped. The issue with the cost of infusion is that people will only use their favourite weapons. Destiny isn't much of a looter shooter if players use fewer weapons than, say, a non-looter shooter like Call of Duty. And I can see that happening with players already - infuse Sleeper, Whisper, Ikelos shotgun and a primary, say, Go Figure and just use them all the way to 600. For some players that might take them to Christmas. By the way what is the new dungeon you speak of? Blind Well?!
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Sept 26, 2018 7:19:30 GMT -5
That seems to be a completely different design choice. I am not quite sure if it would be superior, especially in a game with PvP. It does sound interesting though.
"The issue with the cost of infusion is that people will only use their favourite weapons." I don't see the reasoning for this. For me this is the exact opposite. I have already used more different weapons in forsaken than I have ever in D2Y1. The fact that people use Ikelos and sleeper/whisper is because those are simply top tier weapons by large margin. A different "problem" altogether. If anything, high infusion costs forces players to use something else every once in a while. The sole reason I haven't used my whisper+zenith+midnight/bygones everywhere has been light level (and wanting to try new things) With primary weapons, It has been a while I actually infused over just using my highest weapon. But yes, I wish that happened for my secondary/heavy a little bit more often too, but a shotgun and high DPS exotic heavy seem to be a must in some/most high level encounters. Although I am starting to see value in 2 primary weapons + whisper for a lot of encounters (or primary + trace).
The dungeon is a new activity added yesterday. Its release is tied to the 3rd week of dreaming city rotation (don't know if it will go away next week, don't think so). It is not blind well (although blind well did change to taken this week). It is basically a short 3 person raid, with 3 checkpoints (and 3 times rewards) scaling from 570-580-590 enemies.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Sept 26, 2018 8:45:55 GMT -5
But if you've just started playing the game, you're not at a point where you're ready to be top tier 1%er yet. Everything that I've seen (granted, it's not much) has said that Bungie wants to slow things down... that they've learned (ahahahahaha, like I believe that) from D2 launch and they don't want people with nothing to do other than PVP after 6 weeks. On a different note, how's the new raid? I think with the additions that were added yesterday, this expansion is miles better than anything we have seen in destiny. Great content, great leveling system, decent PvP balance (although PvP is still eh due to 30FPS and netcode) challenging end game encounters, plenty of resources to level up, pretty big grind, great end game patrol (something we never really had) less punishing if you don't do 3 characters and by far the best raid we have ever had. I went from "Ok I will try this expansion because my friends will be playing it anyway, I will probably be back at fortnite in 2 weeks" to "what is fortnite again?". If you like to grind, this is for you. If you like to play shooters without a grind, this game is not for you anymore (finally). So... it's pretty much the same as every D1 DLC.... That it's miles above it's predecessor... that they've made it so much better... that there's so much to do... that Bungie has listened... yadda yadda yadda. You sound like Datto and other Destiny only Youtube streamers. On a new note, it is nice to hear about the raid
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Sept 26, 2018 12:21:10 GMT -5
As someone who’s been with Destiny since the D1 beta, I will say with confidence that right now Destiny is the best it’s ever been. Forsaken, to me, is the Taken King on steroids. The new dungeon and exotic quests released yesterday only cemented that further. If that makes me sound like Datto or some other Destiny YouTuber, so be it, it’s the truth.
If you have any doubts, find Skill Up’s hour long review and watch that. He’s been more critical of D2 for longer than anyone. When all the major reviewers were giving D2 8/10 or better at launch and everyone was in the first month honeymoon phase, he was already calling the game shit and a big step down from D1. If Forsaken is good enough to win him over, you can trust that it’s really damn good.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Sept 26, 2018 12:24:29 GMT -5
Cool; nice to see that they finally got it right
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wings
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Post by wings on Sept 27, 2018 2:47:32 GMT -5
That seems to be a completely different design choice. I am not quite sure if it would be superior, especially in a game with PvP. It does sound interesting though. "The issue with the cost of infusion is that people will only use their favourite weapons." I don't see the reasoning for this. For me this is the exact opposite. I have already used more different weapons in forsaken than I have ever in D2Y1. The fact that people use Ikelos and sleeper/whisper is because those are simply top tier weapons by large margin. A different "problem" altogether. If anything, high infusion costs forces players to use something else every once in a while. The sole reason I haven't used my whisper+zenith+midnight/bygones everywhere has been light level (and wanting to try new things) With primary weapons, It has been a while I actually infused over just using my highest weapon. But yes, I wish that happened for my secondary/heavy a little bit more often too, but a shotgun and high DPS exotic heavy seem to be a must in some/most high level encounters. Although I am starting to see value in 2 primary weapons + whisper for a lot of encounters (or primary + trace). The dungeon is a new activity added yesterday. Its release is tied to the 3rd week of dreaming city rotation (don't know if it will go away next week, don't think so). It is not blind well (although blind well did change to taken this week). It is basically a short 3 person raid, with 3 checkpoints (and 3 times rewards) scaling from 570-580-590 enemies. PvP will prohibit some of the RPG elements that could be expanded into Destiny but it appears that Bungie's implementation of the unified sandbox is super strict unlike other games from what I've been told. Like you can have games where certain stuff is disabled in PvP but the players are told. I know from experience this happens in The Division with Sentry's Call six piece bonus and some perks and stuff have different values in PvP compared to PvE. I just think this design choice will mean certain stuff gets overused from the get go. And Bungie has been known to nerf stuff that is overused even if it's not overpowered so I suspect the scout rifle nerf was the latest example of that. I'm still annoyed with having to use a sniper rifle to DPS Golgoroth since the damage phase is close range. It felt so stupid at the time. I guess the Destiny 2 equivalent is having slug shotguns not be much use in PvE until the Lunafaction boots got buffed. It was fun one phasing Calus' robot using Unification VII (New Monarchy's full auto slug shotgun). I do think the change away from having to exclusively use two primary weapons is great though. I'll look into the Dungeon. Looks like two clanmates I usually run stuff with spoke about it over XBL while I was at work. Only my Warlock will be high enough to do the final encounter judging from the power delta (she's 555 but that will require infusing stuff as I usually keep stuff in my inventory for drops purposes until I really need them). I guess I'd find infusion costs more reasonable if masterwork cores weren't part of the requirement or had a direct way of getting them outside of Spider's inventory. I have 264 of them but I know I'm in a small minority. Wonder how many of the streamers at the summit wanted infusion to be a costly process who also took advantage of the free masterwork cores from the Drifter's inventory.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 1, 2018 5:19:51 GMT -5
That it's miles above it's predecessor... that they've made it so much better... that there's so much to do... that Bungie has listened... yadda yadda yadda. You sound like Datto and other Destiny only Youtube streamers. Well if that is really your mindset (whatever somebody tell me, if they are positive on Destiny I will disregard their statement as fanboys, even though I won't try the game myself) why are you in this destiny part of the boards? I don't want to be rude, but that is a mindset I don't expect to come across on these boards. P.s. Datto is pretty objective imho, but there are others which are not.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Oct 1, 2018 9:25:35 GMT -5
That it's miles above it's predecessor... that they've made it so much better... that there's so much to do... that Bungie has listened... yadda yadda yadda. You sound like Datto and other Destiny only Youtube streamers. Well if that is really your mindset (whatever somebody tell me, if they are positive on Destiny I will disregard their statement as fanboys, even though I won't try the game myself) why are you in this destiny part of the boards? I don't want to be rude, but that is a mindset I don't expect to come across on these boards. P.s. Datto is pretty objective imho, but there are others which are not. It's not... I mean, I'm not as positive about Destiny as I once was... but go back and watch the videos... it's a standard cycle of the community that whenever a DLC came out in D1, that what I said is pretty much what is said. I mean, if the Datto/Youtuber line hurt your feelings, sorry about that.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 1, 2018 10:04:10 GMT -5
Nah it didn't hurt my feelings, it is just my honest opinion on it. Discrediting something completely just because just feels like my posts are a waste of time I honestly don't think we are in a honeymoon phase, well of coarse we are, but now the marriage has a pretty good chance to work out in the long run as well.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Oct 1, 2018 10:46:54 GMT -5
I honestly don't think we are in a honeymoon phase, well of coarse we are, but now the marriage has a pretty good chance to work out in the long run as well. I mean.... sure. I would think that Forsaken is like the time after marriage councilling before the divorce... the "See! I've changed!" phase CoO, naturally, was being caught red handed with your schwantz in your wife's best friends holiest of holy's- phase
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wings
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Post by wings on Oct 2, 2018 4:46:32 GMT -5
P.s. Datto is pretty objective imho, but there are others which are not. Relative to some of the personalities out there, sure. But he has own biases and he was one of those streamers at the summit who have collectively told Bungie that the game ought to become more of a job as it suits them as they don't have any commitments outside of gaming. Looks like it backfired on most of those streamers because only two raid teams completed the raid within the first 24 hours. Also the Guardian tears over PvP balance from the eSports wanna-bes like Mtashed and their subscriber armies are delicious, e.g. them -> "Waaah Shoulder Charge is OP...waaaah Sleeper is OP in Gambit" me-> "play an actual competitive game like Rainbow Six, Counter Strike, Overwatch if skill is what you want" them -> "how dare you tell us to git gud"
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bradman
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Post by bradman on Oct 2, 2018 7:09:20 GMT -5
The game has changed enough that it needs to be played in its current state to accurately rate.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 8, 2018 5:52:11 GMT -5
P.s. Datto is pretty objective imho, but there are others which are not. Relative to some of the personalities out there, sure. But he has own biases and he was one of those streamers at the summit who have collectively told Bungie that the game ought to become more of a job as it suits them as they don't have any commitments outside of gaming. Looks like it backfired on most of those streamers because only two raid teams completed the raid within the first 24 hours. Also the Guardian tears over PvP balance from the eSports wanna-bes like Mtashed and their subscriber armies are delicious, e.g. them -> "Waaah Shoulder Charge is OP...waaaah Sleeper is OP in Gambit" me-> "play an actual competitive game like Rainbow Six, Counter Strike, Overwatch if skill is what you want" them -> "how dare you tell us to git gud" I don't think that can be classified as backfiring in any way. I think a lot of the streamers, even if they didn't complete it within 24 hours, are a big fan of the new raid. Additionally, I have full time job, and I still love this expansion. Sure my social life was on the back burner for a month lol, but that was my choice, I just wanted to play this game again, since a year. So does my clan (although there are some of them who can't stand the fact you can get lucky/unlucky with drops) almost all of them favor the long grind. Destiny has had plenty of identity issues, it wanted to be a RPG and competitive PvP shooter for both casual and hardcore players all at once. Now they seem to have chosen one path, a grindy MMOisk RPG shooter. It might not be your path, but I am personally glad they choose a path. Now for Dattos objectivity, he is the only Destiny youtuber who actually states counter arguments in his videos and states it is not his opinion, but he can see others thinking that way. Honestly, it doesn't get more objective in youtube land than that. Sure he has biases, everybody does, but acknowledging them is about as good as one can do.
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wings
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Post by wings on Oct 8, 2018 9:19:00 GMT -5
I don't think that can be classified as backfiring in any way. I think a lot of the streamers, even if they didn't complete it within 24 hours, are a big fan of the new raid. Additionally, I have full time job, and I still love this expansion. Sure my social life was on the back burner for a month lol, but that was my choice, I just wanted to play this game again, since a year. So does my clan (although there are some of them who can't stand the fact you can get lucky/unlucky with drops) almost all of them favor the long grind. Destiny has had plenty of identity issues, it wanted to be a RPG and competitive PvP shooter for both casual and hardcore players all at once. Now they seem to have chosen one path, a grindy MMOisk RPG shooter. It might not be your path, but I am personally glad they choose a path. Now for Dattos objectivity, he is the only Destiny youtuber who actually states counter arguments in his videos and states it is not his opinion, but he can see others thinking that way. Honestly, it doesn't get more objective in youtube land than that. Sure he has biases, everybody does, but acknowledging them is about as good as one can do. The raid is good but the 'grind' for the most part boils down to playing a slot machine, like the strike catalysts are, and requiring Masterwork cores for infusion. Whilst the streamers at the summit wanted planetary materials to mean something, Bungie could have made that particular cost to be steeper than they currently and not have Masterwork cores requiring infusion. And they went further and nerfed Masterworked drops in the Leviathan encounters for good measure. I only infuse sparingly and I used mismatched armour quite a bit until recently but I can see why players with far less disposable time are struggling (struggling to find a Y2 set I like for my Warlock - this is the exact setup I use for my Y1 Warlock). The irony is that vendor rank-up rewards no longer drop at max light if players are. Planetary materials would mean more to me if I could use them as easy infusion since I have already reached max light so I can different builds for certain things. And on the issue of builds, this is a further issue with the extremely low loot drop rates for Forsaken exotics. If an exotic isn't sought after because it's no longer extremely rare, then perhaps it's not that valuable after all. There were plenty of exotics in Destiny 1 that were coveted regardless of their popularity like Twilight Garrison, Helm of Saint-14, Nothing Monacles, Transversive Steps, Graviton Forfeit, and Bones of Eao. Destiny will never be taken seriously as a competitive shooter outside of a small section of the most dedicated Destiny community and it's pointless trying to make it something it's not. I'd rather see game modes like that Scorch Cannon game mode we had in the Crucible Labs in Destiny rather than Countdown since at least Scorch Cannon is thematically relevant, whilst taking a game mode originating in Counter Strike feels far less so. I rather they embrace the 'RPG' aspect because there are thematically realistic shooters that outperform Destiny in that in some aspects, which really shouldn't be happening - compare mobility builds in Destiny 2 to some of the previous iterations of COD as an example. Gambit is actually an example of why you can't view Destiny in competitive terms with wallhacks given to invaders, and catch up mechanics for losing sides etc. It's amusing because I've always called Destiny a FPS version of Mario Kart, so I guess it is now true. Gambit has its own blue turtle shell.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 16, 2018 4:51:35 GMT -5
I think the slot machines is a good analogy for the current leveling system. Or rather black jack. You decide if you go for a big or small bonus, both are able to screw you over, but one is more likely than the other depending on your current situation. I think that is what the community wants though honestly. Gambling is fun. Sure losing sucks, but gambling makes things addictive and unique. Random rolls were begged for over a year for a reason. I think the community doesn't know it yet, but I think people would be bored to death if we would simply get a +1 for the current slot (instead of a +1 to your average light), which is an often proposed solution. Yes, losing a gamble sucks, but it increases the happy feeling with having a positive outcome. A no peaks without lows kind of thing. I would find both equally fine, as long as the grind stays equally long, aka if we get gear that is guaranteed to enhance your light, we would need a (much) higher max light.
Agreed on the competitiveness of destiny. ALthough I like the bomb game mode.
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exxtrooper
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Post by exxtrooper on Oct 18, 2018 6:42:35 GMT -5
Inaugural address is pretty dang good for PvP. Good yes but not better than a well rolled bygones, but by far the best option for those who have trouble getting hold of a good bygones. Working on DPS spreadsheet for pve. Not sure whether to nuke this thread and write the new shit or just make a new thread altogether.
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