eLantern
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Post by eLantern on Nov 20, 2019 13:24:34 GMT -5
Aside from the obvious issues with spawn logic, there's a couple changes that need to be made. First off, the camera fly in is a major issue. The half second it takes can mean the difference in an okay spawn and a bad one, since an enemy can round a corner and change sight lines during that time. It's also awful because it will sometimes give you information you shouldn't have. I've gotten a ton of cheesy kills because I spotted an enemy player running around and could easily determine where he was moving to a pre-aim it. Were it not for the spawn camera he would have had the drop on me instead. Secondly, they need to immediately remove the weapon-charging after a spawn where your character will pull the charging handle and/or check the chamber. When you get a bad spawn, this makes it so much worse because you're literally unable to shoot back. It's so dumb that this is a thing. Third, ground war spawning is inconsistent and dumb. There's been times where my friend is marked as in combat but isn't shooting or damaged. He backed off from the fight for reinforcements. 10 seconds later and I still can't spawn. It can't be enemy proximity considering the number of times I've literally watched someone spawn... Not sure what's up with that. And if you're gonna make me wait until it's "safe" why do I spawn on grenades and infront of enemies so often? Either let me spawn in danger, or make it actually safe. There also desperately needs to be a 1 or 2 second spawn shield to grenades, explosives, tanks, and killstreaks. And how about you face me in the general direction of the closest enemy instead of facing a wall? Not that it would matter much since I'd be too busy charging my weapon to shoot back. Agree with these. And I really want to see them change the game over to Scorestreaks (as the default) instead of Killstreaks in order to provide more of an incentive to play the objective instead of just going for kills to earn callstreaks.
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exaltedvanguard
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Post by exaltedvanguard on Nov 25, 2019 13:01:39 GMT -5
The most depressing part about this game is that some idiot in a suit is going to look at all the backlash and look at all the claims that it's boring and say that call of duty needs advanced movement and specialists to be fun and obviously that it's the removal of these aspects that made it bad...
Also, skill based matchmaking does exist in ground war, despite claims the contrary. It simply took longer to take effect because a large portion of your hidden rank is based off whether you win or lose a given game. Since a single player can't reliably win games on their own it takes a far larger number of games to determine a player's rank. A single player can *influence* a game and cause a trend toward winning. That trend will *eventually* cause more wins than losses and increase their rank but it's taken time for the system to gather that data and appropriately rank people. Most of my ground war lobbies have become the stagnant campfest that infests the rest of the game. Reverse boosting for even just two games seems to have helped ever so slightly, which is further evidence that skill-based matchmaking exists in ground war.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Nov 26, 2019 9:31:28 GMT -5
So, has anyone leveled up the Origin 12 shotgun yet? I'm not sure if I've been killed by it even once. Initial impression is the reason for that is it's absolute dogs hit, but I'm wondering if it becomes decent once you narrow the spread significantly. That 25 round drum mag has me dreaming of feeds. I've used it some. As far as I can tell, it's basically a semi-auto R9-0 (seems to be the same pellet count and damage per pellet). It's pretty okay so far but I only have it into the 20s atm, so I don't have all the really good attachments. I finished getting it gold. It's a bit hard for me to evaluate because I've been using it so long I've lost sense of reality, but I think I can say that it's still pretty bad once you unlock all of the attachments for it. The range on it is bad. I have the minimum spread on it, and it still takes too many shots to kill or doesn't kill at all. It would be significantly improved if there was a base damage that was applied if a single pellet hits, like in BO3, so that you couldn't fire the entire 25 round magazine into an enemy without killing them. You won't one-shot outside of point blank range. Slugs were terrible. There's a good reason it's the least used shotgun. I think I hate it. I know I love it.
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exaltedvanguard
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Post by exaltedvanguard on Nov 26, 2019 18:49:04 GMT -5
I've been using the 680, and my general feeling is that shotguns are garbage without attachments. With attachments, they work well as secondaries for clearing buildings.
Given your average range of engagement in this game, it's hard to justify bringing one as a primary.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Nov 26, 2019 22:31:13 GMT -5
How did I not find out about the .357 with Snakeshot until today? Literally didn't know you could turn it into a shotgun. I was so excited for what I assumed would be a terrible gun, then I unlock it and...it's actually really good? I'm so confused.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Nov 28, 2019 14:05:43 GMT -5
Ok it's definitely the best shotgun in the game by a comical margin, enjoy abusing it now because it has to be nerfed, if you don't have it unlocked take advantage of the double weapon XP and get it.
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Lexapro
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Post by Lexapro on Nov 30, 2019 2:28:44 GMT -5
Joe Cecot has already said that the Snakeshot will get its day in court.
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exaltedvanguard
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Post by exaltedvanguard on Nov 30, 2019 7:47:37 GMT -5
I "reverse boosted" (aka worked on leveling up garbage) last night and unlocked snakeshot.
Yup. Best shotgun.
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exaltedvanguard
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Post by exaltedvanguard on Dec 17, 2019 15:34:35 GMT -5
I've been working on leveling up various stuff, including shotguns.
Shotgun thoughts: Bad as primaries. Engagement ranges in this game are generally too far to make them work. However running them as a secondary with Overkill works great. They're very strong when you can use them for clearing buildings or taking an indoors flag. They all GREATLY benefit from attachments - much more so than ARs or SMGs. Naked shotguns are universally trash.
725 is in a good spot now. Strong but not overly so. Best shotgun in game modes where you don't expect to be fighting off a hoard of people. Not well suited to things like ground war thanks to only having 2 shots.
680 and R9 are both quite good. If you're going to run a shotgun as a primary, the 680 is better thanks to superior range giving you a little more wiggle room. But otherwise the R9 is better. The key with the R9 is to treat it like its ZombieLand. Everyone gets double-tapped. This is the best way to get reliable kills. Basically turns it into a pump action shotty with a faster pump and bigger magazine than the 680. So if you can afford to sacrifice a little range, the R9 will treat you well.
Origin is trash. It basically functions exactly like the R9, requiring a double tap for reliable kills. Except it has a longer delay between those 2 shots, more recoil, and fewer rounds.
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Unrelated to shotguns, some of my personal testing has revealed that attachments effects are not always universal, sometimes have unlisted effects, and sometimes have effects that they straight up shouldn't.
For example, Driftors testing showed that stippled grip on the Bizon basically made the gun handle worse instead of better.
Another example is that I've found that the longest-range barrel on the RAM7 negatively affects hip-fire despite not listing that effect. It makes sense (ish) so it doesn't seem like a bug per se, but it isn't listed.
And then I've found some straight up wonky stuff like an attachment significantly affecting recoil when it shouldn't have anything to do with recoil (and similar attachments do not share this property). Wild stuff.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Dec 20, 2019 10:59:50 GMT -5
I agree about the R9, it feels pretty good, you have to double tap. It rechambers only when you reload or you've fired both, so if you don't double tap, and you don't reload, the next enemy you hit once and then sit there waiting for the next shot wondering where it is while they gleefully gun you down.
I've found since the update that both the 680 and 725 are far too inconsistent when hipfired. I ended up having to ADS to make them effective, which is not really the playstyle I want to have, and greatly diminishes their value as a primary. If you need to ADS, you might as well just use an SMG as your primary instead in most situations.
The Origin is kinda trash but also kinda maybe amazing. I can't see it really being viable in core as much as Ground War. You want to slap on that 25 round drum and be able to just spam. In most of your 1v1 encounters, the outcome will be the same as the other shotguns. The delay between shots on the 680 and R9, and the need to reload the 725 make it difficult to handle a 1v2, much less once there's a third, fourth, fifth enemy. That's where the Origin shines, particularly if you know you're about to face a group and equip Stopping Power.
On the topic of Stopping Power, how is the number of high damage rounds it gives you calculated?
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exaltedvanguard
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Post by exaltedvanguard on Dec 20, 2019 13:05:12 GMT -5
It's supposed to give you one magazine worth. Unaffected by reloading. So with the drum, you should get 25 rounds. You can fire 10, reload, and then get another 15 before returning to normal damage.
While you do need to ADS, it seems that the pellet spread tightens throughout the animation so popping a quick round off with the 680 wasn't as hard as I had initially thought. I found that I could still maintain good mobility with it.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Dec 20, 2019 14:22:26 GMT -5
It's supposed to give you one magazine worth. Unaffected by reloading. So with the drum, you should get 25 rounds. You can fire 10, reload, and then get another 15 before returning to normal damage. While you do need to ADS, it seems that the pellet spread tightens throughout the animation so popping a quick round off with the 680 wasn't as hard as I had initially thought. I found that I could still maintain good mobility with it. Is that the default magazine size? I don't think it will give you, say, 100 rounds if you have the 100 round mag on the Kilo. I've also noticed it will give you more than 2 shots of the 725.
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exaltedvanguard
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Post by exaltedvanguard on Jan 4, 2020 9:48:07 GMT -5
I haven't used stopping power in a long time (dead silence being far more important to me means that cooldown is killer), so it was changed at some point. Would be a single, full magazine at release (I used it on the p90 a bunch).
Appears to have a maximum of 30 rounds based on YouTube gameplay with lmgs.
No idea if it's a set 30 or if it can be less than that. Should be easy to figure out if you pop into a custom game!
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Post by kylet357 on Jan 5, 2020 9:43:10 GMT -5
You get one magazine's worth of Stopping Power up to a maximum of 30 rounds. That's basically it.
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Post by illram on Jan 5, 2020 18:21:43 GMT -5
Is there a build for the 680 that gives consistent OSK ADS at range? Like the Argus?
And was the snakeshot nerfed? It seems more unreliable now.
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exaltedvanguard
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Post by exaltedvanguard on Jan 5, 2020 21:36:54 GMT -5
680 could use slugs for long range, which is a one hit to upper chest at a VERY long distance IIRC. Otherwise combining the longest barrel and the range increasing suppressor gives you a very respectable OSK range for buckshot. Assuming it hasn't been stealth changed at some point since I used it last. I know the R9 has gotten a couple stealth nerfs (range and reload speed is what I noticed on it).
Snakeshot was stealth nerfed at some point after the other nerfs. Only one-shots with upper torso shots. Aiming at the belly (like any sane person with buckshot in this game) results in hitmarkers.
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Post by illram on Jan 6, 2020 1:18:54 GMT -5
Yeah the "Hush" armory variant (monolith suppressor) with the longest barrel is pretty good with hip fire. Running around Shipment with that is a riot.
Not looking forward to getting the 0 attachments challenge done on this thing though...
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Post by kylet357 on Jan 7, 2020 22:04:56 GMT -5
I made a variant of the 680 that I called the 'Chigurh', using the longest barrel and the FFS Marauder Suppressor
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exaltedvanguard
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Post by exaltedvanguard on Jan 15, 2020 16:16:20 GMT -5
I finally figured out how to sum up my impressions of MW. Modern Warfare feels like an indie game with AAA graphics. It feels like an indie game that was feature-creeped into existence rather than developed with a focused, cohesive design philosophy. It feels like the developers just listed off features that they wanted and added them as they thought of them with no thought to why those features may or may not have been included in previous titles.
Someone was nostalgic about killstreaks so they brought them back... And the game got really campy because there's no incentive to play the objective. Someone bought into the "3-lanes are bad" hype... And we ended up with super porous maps that have no flow. Someone wanted projectiles because on paper it's a better system than hitscan... And then we ended up with wonky hit-detection like every other shooter that uses projectiles. Someone brought back claymores, something that's been gone from multiplayer since Black Ops 2... Because they forgot that bouncing-betties replaced them with meaningful counterplay (or don't understand why counterplay is a good thing).
The list goes on and on. It really feels like they just listed out a bunch of stuff from previous games and just added it willy-nilly. "The more features the better! More features is always better, right? I don't know why anyone would ever remove a feature."
They say that they want a casual friendly game, but then implement footsteps in a way that screws over everyone who just wants to sit down and play the game on their TV (like a casual player). If you want to stand a chance you're gonna have to buy some headphones and plug them in. Or drop a couple hundred to go wireless. Real casual friendly, that.
On Reddit, one of the art guys posted basically saying that he thinks people being hard to see is totally fine and there's nothing wrong with that. Apparently "gameplay clarity" is not a design virtue of the graphics team. Worse, he goes on to basically say, "Well, I don't have any issues seeing things," despite there being thousands of posts, including screenshots and videos, of people saying that they can't see shit in this game and find themselves shooting at red-names instead of characters. This is the equivalent of a code engineer going, "Well, it doesn't crash on my PC..." While we're at it, I guess the battle of Winterfell was actually super clear because I have an OLED TV. It's not me who is wrong. It is the children who are wrong.
Remember how they nerfed the 725, then in the next patch that nerf was stealth reverted, before being re-nerfed in following patches? And the ground war spawn/class select bug that was fixed in one patch, then came back (to a lesser degree), then fixed again? And how we're seen this happen with multiple other changes? Sure seems like your subversion control is actually totally uncontrolled.
When asked directly about bunny-hopping prior to the game's release, they explicitly said that it would not be effective. And it's one of the most effective movements in the game.
When I stop thinking about this game as being made by a team of veterans but instead think about it as an indie-game off kickstarter, the state of this game makes a ton more sense. It seems to be lacking a unified, directed approach that has learned from the changes games made before it. It seems like there is no one on the team vouching for basic things like game clarity and counterplay. Instead it feels like it's aimless and directionless, with a random spattering of features thrown on the wall with no real vision.
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bradman
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Post by bradman on Jan 15, 2020 18:29:46 GMT -5
That's the best review I've read of the game. It moves and controls beautifully, the graphics and sound are top notch, but the game itself is an incoherent mess.
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Post by illram on Jan 16, 2020 3:39:16 GMT -5
"Who needs to see their deaths on the scoreboard? No one, that's who!" -IW
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exaltedvanguard
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Post by exaltedvanguard on Feb 25, 2020 16:06:35 GMT -5
And then I've found some straight up wonky stuff like an attachment significantly affecting recoil when it shouldn't have anything to do with recoil (and similar attachments do not share this property). Wild stuff. Welp. Drift0r found one of my secret stash cookies. This isn't the only attachment with this property, though it's the one that's relatively consistent across multiple weapons. Attachments appear to be coded per-weapon, as I know of another optic that reduces recoil on one singular gun and did not appear to work on the other weapons I tested.
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eLantern
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Post by eLantern on Feb 27, 2020 13:10:44 GMT -5
Is there another sight/scope attachment that I could put onto the AK47 & Oden that reduces their recoil?
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exaltedvanguard
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Post by exaltedvanguard on Feb 29, 2020 23:13:43 GMT -5
Is there another sight/scope attachment that I could put onto the AK47 & Oden that reduces their recoil? I'm not aware of one but that doesn't mean there isn't. I don't care much for those guns and I never did much testing with them. I really don't play the game any more so I likely won't test. Tonight's the first time I've played in weeks. For probably the half of season 1 I was mostly playing with the hopes that a future update would improve the glaring gameplay problems. Season 2 was the final developer-incompetence-nail in the coffin and I've lost all motivation to play. They fixed nothing while making several problems worse, and they continue to be unable to perform even the simplest task of writing about patch notes. I'd lost all interest in the game and moved on. I played tonight. Why? Because I'm out of town at my friend's place who I had originally been trying to convince to play the game, and wanted to show him the game. Despite my prevailing negative attitude toward the game, I started tonight legitimately trying to have fun and show off the game. It had been a while so it was kinda nice to jump back in. At first. Unfortunately, since I haven't played in a week or three, SBMM meant I got demolished repeatedly. Then my buddy tried playing and he got destroyed. Then I tried playing again and got destroyed some more. And by the end of the session, I remembered all the reasons I stopped playing and my friend will one-hundred-fucking-percent never be purchasing modern warfare. This game is a dumpster fire. I don't want to see people lose their jobs, but Infinity Ward should be fired. The devs shouldn't be fired. They should just be making My Little Pony games, or some other schlock appropriate of their talents. I wish them the best, but they don't belong anywhere near call of duty or any other AAA title for that matter.
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Den
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Post by Den on Mar 2, 2020 4:26:19 GMT -5
Pretty sad that I've had way more fun with little shooter Ravenfield and a few other literal who indie games than I have had with any AAA game in many years.
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Post by kylet357 on Mar 2, 2020 11:21:56 GMT -5
Woah, it's Den. I didn't think he existed.
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eLantern
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Post by eLantern on Mar 3, 2020 19:45:14 GMT -5
I'm not aware of one but that doesn't mean there isn't. I don't care much for those guns and I never did much testing with them. I hate those two guns and therefore have left them as the last two Assault Rifles to grind through. My biggest issue with them is their recoil bounce which makes using them annoying as hell. Unlocking the Compensator will be a must, but given your comments I was wondering if there was a sight/scope attachment to help further minimize the recoil. If so, I'd be all over using it as well. I've experienced some good days and my fair share of bad days with this game. Overall, it's been my most played CoD title in some time. With that said, I've come to pretty much avoid Ground War nowadays even though I thought it might be my favorite mode. The fact that it either has no SBMM (only lobby balancing) or extremely minimal SBMM is annoying. The amount of highly unbalanced matches I was getting within Ground War ruined the fun for me which is too bad because I like the idea of large scale battles. When I have a similarly skilled friend to myself interested in playing some Gunfight I'll give that mode a go for a little while. I'm not a fan of playing it solo because of how vital communication is to winning. In general, because I mostly play solo, I stick to a mix bag of respawn modes: TDM, Dom, Hardpoint, Headquarters, KC, & CTF for 6v6 & 10v10. And like I said, sometimes I get decently balanced matches that make the game incredibly fun to play; other times, I get matches that have me wondering if there's any reasonable Team-to-Team SBMM occurring. Oh, and I'll also very occasionally play some Hardcore TDM when teaming up with a particular friend who only will play that mode. As for the Season 2 changes, the one that has annoyed me the most was the Perk swap that moved Overkill into the Tier 2 group with Hardline. I feel it ruined what I liked about the Specialist builds I previously had. Pretty sad that I've had way more fun with little shooter Ravenfield and a few other literal who indie games than I have had with any AAA game in many years. Hmmm... now you got me curious to check out Ravenfield.
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Den
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Post by Den on Mar 3, 2020 21:28:26 GMT -5
Woah, it's Den. I didn't think he existed. I am a phantom that has lurked forever, quietly observing the board every day, hoping that one day a COD that isn't crap or some other interesting FPS appears that doesn't die in a month. It has yet to happen, and given they are exclusive to Battle Net now, I'm never touching another COD again. All of my FPS buddies have gone every which way quite some time ago, so sticking with an FPS is pretty intolerable alone. Planetside 2 might get interesting again when it releases the Bastion fleet carrier. I've been playing mostly fighting games in the meantime. Hmmm... now you got me curious to check out Ravenfield. It's nothing extraordinary, but it is a nice singleplayer shooter with a Battlefield-like scale. It's kind of a sandbox with how easy it is to mod and make maps. Built-in map editor the likes of FarCry 2. I got into 3D modeling just a month ago to try and add my own stuff to it.
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exaltedvanguard
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Post by exaltedvanguard on Mar 7, 2020 17:53:32 GMT -5
It's really felt like shooters have been struggling for 5-6 years now.
Halo decided to become a CoD clone when 343 took over (abandoning all the Halo fans that were dams because it's NOT CoD).
Titanfall came out and was great, but was sandbagged by EA at every turn. It was never advertised and released alongside other major titles. Set up for failure at every turn. Like pretty much every respawn title.
FarCry (MP)/Crysis both died out, despite both being surprisingly solid.
Meanwhile Call of Duty is chasing every trend every year rather than just building a solid foundation. Advanced movement. Hero shooter. Battle Royale. It's why everyone was so hyped over MW. We were FINALLY getting a traditional, not-trendy CoD. But unfortunately we got a mil-sim wannabe instead of arcade-y fun.
And now we're stuck in this weird world that totally lacks a AAA arcade-y arena shooter, despite those being what built the genre. Everyone's trying to be "innovative" and inject some new gimmick.
It also doesn't help that the genre's QoL features seem to be stuck in the early 2000s. Shooter's are the only genre that still seems to believe that closer to photorealistic graphics means better games. Pretty much every other genre has figured out that graphics are not the end all be all, and that a stylistic approach is usually better. This comes at the sacrifice of all else. Look at Riot Games and League of Legends. Gameplay clarity is a huge deal. Despite hundreds (thousands?) of different skins, you can always tell exactly what's going on and recognize every champion/ability instantly. Compare that to Diablo 2 where you get 3 heroes on the screen and it's a visual mess. Why have shooters not learned the same lessons when it comes to graphical fidelity?
Why are shooters missing some of the most basic QoL options? Why are we still using controller layouts instead of being able to just map the buttons as we wish? Why do we have only 1 or 2 generic sensitivity levels for thumbsticks rather than the ability to set it per zoom level? Why is it a revolutionary feature in 2019 that MW gave us multiple sensitivity curves to choose from?
Why can fighting games give us frame data while shooters can only give inaccurate and often wrong stat bars? Why does a title like Outer Worlds have these super in-depth weapon stats when a shooter like Call of Duty does not? There's just no excuse...
I could keep going all day. There's so many little things that shooters do wrong. Individually they might not be much, but taken together... Yeesh. It really feels like shooters have done nothing but chase trends instead of developing... shooters... for almost a decade now. If that makes any sense. At this point I'm just rambling.
PS: Based on XA's stats, the Uzi is now the best gun in the game (if unforgiving). It's the most mobile and most accurate SMG, and now has a very good damage profile to boot. Shits crazy.
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Post by Broadband on Mar 7, 2020 20:48:55 GMT -5
I've kind of just given up on there ever being a fun, casual mainstream online game again. Every online game going forward is going to push some sort of competitive angle with a ranking system, aggressive skill based matchmaking in its unranked/"casual" modes, instant bans for "toxic" behavior, incorporate some sort of egregious pay2win in-game shop, and of course no server lists or custom servers.
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