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Post by ][nquisitor Mateo on Mar 28, 2010 13:01:50 GMT -5
I just leveled Medic yesterday (That is to say, went from nothing to everything unlocked), I tested out the new guns, and the M60 was...underwhelming.
It shoots slower than the others, has more recoil, the sights suck, and it only comes with 200 rounds.
Compared to the SAW which has less recoil, less spread, 200 round clips, an extra 200 rounds, good sights, and 250 RPMs faster ROF, and only 2 extra hits to kill*.
So I ask, what is all the fuss about?
* With magnum
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Post by xX MacMillan Xx on Mar 28, 2010 15:39:19 GMT -5
The M60 has the lowest time to kill,has absurd(amazing) accuracy,minimal recoil when fired in bursts and can double as a sniper rifle.Did I mention Rambo used it?
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Den
He's That Guy
Posts: 4,294,967,295
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Post by Den on Mar 28, 2010 15:46:48 GMT -5
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Post by ][nquisitor Mateo on Mar 28, 2010 16:08:29 GMT -5
I still like the SAW better.
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Post by Protolisk on Mar 28, 2010 17:14:39 GMT -5
LOL TANGO SUCKA
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Post by porkyownsu on Mar 28, 2010 23:40:56 GMT -5
paint cartoons are done for neither profit or fame, therefore the purest art form.
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Post by fatsix on Mar 29, 2010 7:01:07 GMT -5
I also decided to play medic yesterday. I only got to the m36 tho. The beginning was a struggle until i got the 4x scope unlocked. So depending on the map and scenario , I found myself bouncing back and fourth between the t88 and saw. The t88 having a better sight , but the saw higher rof. The m60 is nice for larger maps because its 4 hits to kill with magnum. But really close range the ROF isnt fast enough most of the time, unless you aim for the head. Personally i like the XM8 LMG. quick ROF, decent damage, and the spread pattern is nice. Plus reloading is a little bit quicker. I went 50-23 and 40-17 with the xm8. I know its not the best score, but i was able to hold down m coms, or clear them and raise teammates. I feel its quicker than the m60 when you need to get the drop on someone. I also dropped magnum for marksman with the 4x scope.
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Post by ][nquisitor Mateo on Mar 29, 2010 12:32:26 GMT -5
I was using the XM8, But I went with the SAW instead because it is only one more hit at close range*, but it has a 200 round clip, less recoil, and a higher ROF.
That's just too much not to use it.
Also, the reason I don't use marksman is because it doesn't reduce recoil, which I think is the main factor in aiming.
*Both with magnum
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Post by fatsix on Mar 29, 2010 12:49:01 GMT -5
The recoil is why i like the xm8. It goes straight up IIRC. So a 4 shot burst is a kill, most of the time it ends early because of a HS. I remember not liking the spread pattern on the saw, but for cqb it was good.
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Post by individual on Mar 29, 2010 16:17:31 GMT -5
The M60 has the highest TTK by far, even compared to ARs it's amazing, and it's the most accurate LMG.
Definitely needs either much less damage or much more recoil
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Post by crescendo on Mar 30, 2010 3:00:21 GMT -5
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Post by crescendo on Mar 30, 2010 3:56:59 GMT -5
Uncontrolled variables aside, the above chart does does show two things: The M60 is popular, and it is an effective killer.
Some things to note are that all classes have a knife, and all assault classes with an assault rifle have 40mm grenades. Most players will probably kill using the knife once or twice per round (assault class included), and most assault players will probably kill two or more times with 40mm grenades per round. The M60, of course, is only available to one class. These three observations are what makes the high number of M60 kills interesting.
The chart itself is good reason to think that the M60 needs rebalancing, but empirical evidence aside, the M60 is objectively the best medic gun (and possibly the best gun overall). Let's look at the facts: It has the highest 'spray' of any LMG, the highest 'amp', the second lowest 'kick', and, most importantly, the highest damage.
The 'spray', or bullet cone effect, is negligible for two reasons. Firstly the M60's 'spray' values are only slightly higher than the 'spray' values of the next highest LMG, the PKM, which is itself a very capable weapon. Secondly, 'spray' doesn't really matter when you only need to fire 4-5 shots to kill, and it also doesn't really matter when you can fire semi-automatically with the mouse at a high ROF with essentially perfect accuracy. The 'amp' (recoil modifier) of the M60 is the highest of the LMGs, but the 'kick' (the angle increase with each shot) is the second lowest of the LMGs. What this means is that while the M60 has more recoil (the point of aim rising when shooting), its accuracy is actually least effected by automatic fire. When the previous statement is viewed in the context of the trivial ability of a mouse to control for predictable recoil and the low amount of shots to kills, the M60 clearly has more killing power than any other weapon when fired automatically. This killing power essentially applies at all ranges, except in rare situations up close when higher ROF weapons and knifes come into play.
In short: The M60 has the lowest TTK of all weapons, and is also the most accurate LMG when fired automatically because it requires less bullets to kill.
It is clearly the best choice for a person playing the medic class, and is arguably the best gun in the game.
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Post by Protolisk on Mar 30, 2010 4:02:03 GMT -5
also just want to add, if you use rapid fire you can shoot at the same RPM with 0 spread.
Other guns wont do this, usually you have to halve to RPM to get the 0 spread.
eg. G3 at 250RPM 0 spread M60 at 550RPM 0 spread
if you don't believe me use a rapid fire script and test it yourself.
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Post by fatsix on Mar 30, 2010 7:00:27 GMT -5
was playing around with the mg3 last night. Its not nearly as bad as the chart depicts. Close and mid range its good, the ROF overwhelms targets. I was using 10 round bursts or two 5 round bursts. I had no problem outgunning other medics with the pkm, t88 and m60 on the drop, even engineers with the pp2000. Those first few bullets are crucial to knocking their aim off, whereas i was getting killed when i had the m60 because i couldn't get it to fire fast enough, or they fired first on the drop. Very Long range it sucks, because its hard to get 7 rounds on someone before they get behind cover. Where as with the xm8 or the m60 i could get 4 rounds on them before they moved. I guess it all depends on playing style and situations.
Most medics i play against, camp a narrow alley from cover and shoot long range or spam, so the m60 is more beneficial. I prefer to rush with my squad, then camp the mcom or a isolate an area. I love isolating the the area where the tanks and trailers are on arica harbor. Clean out all the snipers, on attack or defend.
I'll throw the scope on the saw and give it another try tonight.
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Post by Protolisk on Mar 30, 2010 7:02:00 GMT -5
just did some testing. looks likes rapid fire only works on LMGs except the MG36.
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Post by ZeroKelvin^ on Mar 30, 2010 13:28:13 GMT -5
it would be pretty nice to have the statistics grouped by weapon type (SMG, assault rile, Shotgun, etc.)
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Post by fatsix on Apr 1, 2010 8:40:49 GMT -5
Saw with the 4x scope sucked. I noticed if the other team has alot of m60 medics then i'm forced to use the m60, because i simply get out gunned using the xm8 lmg. Which isnt such a bad thing, but i like the higher rof of the xm8.
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